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Whee, Linux!
MiquelFire
Member #3,110
January 2003
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OICW said:

So far I don't have any incentive of running anything on Windows. However, I want to be on the safe side for having the capability to run them. I would not really want to find myself in the situation that I'd need to run such a program and realise that I can't do it because I've bought stripped down version of extremely overpriced software. Mind you, even some 220$ or 230$ isn't really a price I'd like to pay.

Note: 90% of the people who would benifit from having XP mode have XP now (maybe even downgraded from Vista to XP because some software they want to run is broke with Vista)

If you're already running Vista, and everything you want to run on Windows works with Vista, then there's no point in getting XP mode.

With my made up stats, the other 10% don't need pro as they can just use this as they're most likely web developers.

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Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
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OICW said:

I could swear I saw retail Windows XP package that permitted installation on three computers.

Perhaps you are thinking of the Windows 7 "family pack" which let you upgrade three PCs for $149.99.

There are also various OEM 3-packs.

OICW
Member #4,069
November 2003
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ML: that would probably be the case.

[My website][CppReference][Pixelate][Allegators worldwide][Who's online]
"Final Fantasy XIV, I feel that anything I could say will be repeating myself, so I'm just gonna express my feelings with a strangled noise from the back of my throat. Graaarghhhh..." - Yahtzee
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Tobias Dammers
Member #2,604
August 2002
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They've been known to claim that linux is illegal or imoral.

They even tried to somehow have it so that selling computers without windows would be illegal. Their reasoning went something like this:

  • A computer needs an OS to function

  • The only 'real' OS for the PC platform is Windows

  • A user who buys a PC without buying Windows still needs an OS

  • Hence, the user will use an illegal copy of windows

And in fact, seeing how hard it is to buy a complete consumer PC system without paying for the windows licence (as in, pick the system you really want, and see if you can get it any cheaper by demanding it without any OS installed), they practically succeeded.

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Me make music: Triofobie
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"We need Tobias and his awesome trombone, too." - Johan Halmén

BAF
Member #2,981
December 2002
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And in fact, seeing how hard it is to buy a complete consumer PC system without paying for the windows licence (as in, pick the system you really want, and see if you can get it any cheaper by demanding it without any OS installed), they practically succeeded.

Or perhaps there is simply not enough demand for systems without an OS to warrant the expense. The OEMs are free to sell bare metal systems... in fact, I think Dell has some such systems (or ones with Linux). If you're that upset about it and think that it's such a huge market segment, why don't you start your own company and sell cheaper computers to the world?

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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BAF said:

The OEMs are free to sell bare metal systems...

They are now. After MS was fined for anti-competitive practices.

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"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
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Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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Microsoft is in decline, don't worry about them anymore. Once they throw Ballmer out, they'll find they don't have anybody at least as treacherous good to replace him.

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

BAF
Member #2,981
December 2002
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They are now. After MS was fined for anti-competitive practices.

And I don't see anyone doing it. Smells like a money-pit product to me.

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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BAF said:

Smells like a money-pit product to me.

One of the reasons is places like Dell get paid to preload your system with crap. Even MS will discount the OS license if they preload Office Starter or that other thing, the one that you can't really use, except to purchase a license.

So they'd rather not sell a clean machine when they make money from putting crap on it.

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"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

verthex
Member #11,340
September 2009
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Microsoft is in decline, don't worry about them anymore. Once they throw Ballmer out, they'll find they don't have anybody at least as treacherous good to replace him.

Yeah, and recently I read the news that MS wants to compete against the Ipad now even though they're market isn't even related to Apples anymore and instead they compete more against adobe and oracle.

EDIT: and google.

BAF
Member #2,981
December 2002
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Office Starter or that other thing, the one that you can't really use, except to purchase a license.

IIRC, it's a 30 or 60 day trial. If you want office, you can either buy it at that point, use your existing license if you have one, or use one of the even crappier free alternatives

Quote:

So they'd rather not sell a clean machine when they make money from putting crap on it.

So if you think people really care that much, why don't you start selling clean systems then? With the exception of laptops, anyone who feels that strongly about the bundling is free to build their own system.

Karadoc ~~
Member #2,749
September 2002
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As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I bought this computer with no software at all — and bought Windows from somewhere else. It's not hard to buy a computer without an OS.

OICW said:

So far I don't have any incentive of running anything on Windows. However, I want to be on the safe side for having the capability to run them. I would not really want to find myself in the situation that I'd need to run such a program and realise that I can't do it because I've bought stripped down version of extremely overpriced software. Mind you, even some 220$ or 230$ isn't really a price I'd like to pay.

If you were to buy Windows, I'd recommend that you don't buy Ultimate for that reason. It's highly unlikely that you'd ever need to use XP mode, especially if you don't already have software that is XP exclusive. If it turns out that you do need XP mode or some other feature, then you can get the features you need using "Anytime Upgrade", so you don't need to buy the expensive version 'just in case'.

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Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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This computer I'm using now was built from parts based on BAF's suggestions.

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

BAF
Member #2,981
December 2002
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;D

Probably isn't running an OS based on my suggestion. :'( ;)

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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It does have XP on the first partition. I might have booted it 5 times or so since it was installed in January.

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

BAF
Member #2,981
December 2002
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XP no longer carries my blessing. Upward and onward!

Trezker
Member #1,739
December 2001
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I haven't booted windows in 3 years now. 8-)

Hmm, maybe a few times on that old machine I had... Just for some really old data I still had lingering there... But I haven't actually done anything in Windows on a machine I own since I installed my first Ubuntu.

m c
Member #5,337
December 2004
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I still run windows vista on a laptop and windows ME on an old 64meg RAM HP that I keep around because it is the only box with a 9-pin serial port that I need to use as a serial terminal.

Also Having a 9x version of windows on that old box which now has a s3 virge dx in it allows me to test that things still run on a low spec box.

(\ /)
(O.o)
(> <)

miran
Member #2,407
June 2002

I run Windows XP in a virtual machine. :)

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sig used to be here

Tobias Dammers
Member #2,604
August 2002
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BAF said:

Or perhaps there is simply not enough demand for systems without an OS to warrant the expense. The OEMs are free to sell bare metal systems... in fact, I think Dell has some such systems (or ones with Linux). If you're that upset about it and think that it's such a huge market segment, why don't you start your own company and sell cheaper computers to the world?

Or perhaps MS has been 'educating' the masses for decades now, to the effect that the average customer doesn't know any better than PC == windows, and that virtually all well-known (a.k.a. commercially or semi-commercially funded and thus advertised) software is written for the Windows platform. These things don't just wear off in a year or two, even when better or cheaper alternatives are available. People like what they're used to, so much that most consumers would prefer a mediocre windows full of bugs and security flaws over a (hypothetical) OS that is completely bug free, makes your computer twice as fast, costs nothing at all, but requires you to re-learn everything you know about computers.
I'm not saying Linux is better (it is for me, for most use cases). I'm not saying Microsoft must die either. What I'm saying is that some real competition in the OS market would be healthier (the short rise of linux-based netbooks and the increased popularity of Ubuntu already provided enough pressure for Microsoft to make sure 7 shipped fast and was substantially better than Vista), and that some of the things Microsoft did and does in terms of marketing and PR are morally wrong.

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Me make music: Triofobie
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"We need Tobias and his awesome trombone, too." - Johan Halmén

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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Workstation Benchmarks: Windows 7 vs. Ubuntu Linux

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=ubuntu_win7_ws&num=1

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

verthex
Member #11,340
September 2009
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Workstation Benchmarks: Windows 7 vs. Ubuntu Linux

But in the real world the windows machine would require some malware/antivirus engine running in the background too. If it was Mcafee's junk then you'd seen a huge difference there also.

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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Yeah, also phonix's benchmarks are crap. They mean less than nothing.

For once though they seem to show an edge for linux. probably because that test didn't do anything that tested the graphics. shitty as graphics drivers :(

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Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

Tobias Dammers
Member #2,604
August 2002
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Linux isn't faster for me because comparable code runs faster. It's faster because it allows me to optimize my workflow for developer performance, that is, it offers me more ways of automating myself. In windows, you never really get past the clicking; on *nix systems, virtually everything is scriptable, so no matter how complex things get or how many individual programs are involved, I can arrange things so that I can fire it with a single command.
Also, windows makes me wait. A lot. Not because it's inefficient in what it does, but because it does things it assumes I might need while in reality I don't.

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Me make music: Triofobie
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"We need Tobias and his awesome trombone, too." - Johan Halmén

Trezker
Member #1,739
December 2001
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Also, windows makes me wait. A lot. Not because it's inefficient in what it does, but because it does things it assumes I might need while in reality I don't.

Sometimes I think Ubuntu does that too.



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