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Whee, Linux!
Tobias Dammers
Member #2,604
August 2002
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The whole activation process usually takes me longer than installing a basic linux system from scratch.
Hell, even booting into Vista for the first time probably took longer than downloading and installing my current debian system.

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Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
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There's a few different ways of looking at the Windows 7 OEM license:

  • Do what Microsoft wants: buy a retail license if you build your own PC. They explicitly state that's what you should do.


  • Do what the license says: it simply states you must sell the hardware to a "third party" (without defining what that means) and provide support. So if you wanted to be legal, sell the PC to your cat. Note that Microsoft says outside of the license that it must be an "unrelated" party, but they cannot make up new, legally binding terms outside of the OEM license.


  • Do what you feel is morally acceptable and not going to get you into any trouble whatsoever: buy the OEM for yourself and happily use it.

If you were running a business and you wanted to purchase OEM software, what you'd do is set up a sub-company that handled the tech support.

Tobias Dammers
Member #2,604
August 2002
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So if you wanted to be legal, sell the PC to your cat.

A cat is not a person, legally speaking.

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Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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A cat is not a person, legally speaking.

Enough of one for the court to allow people to make pets beneficiaries of wills.

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Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
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A cat is not a person, legally speaking.

Microsoft doesn't care enough to check if the person installing (err, opening the packaging of) Windows OEM is old enough to enter a legally binding contract, so I don't think they would mind much about the cat.

BAF
Member #2,981
December 2002
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This whole discussion is silly anyway, because they aren't going to care if you buy OEM for personal use. It is just another lame argument against the use of Windows. If you were going to actually purchase and use it, you'd just grab an OEM license and be done with it.

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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BAF said:

This whole discussion is silly anyway, because they aren't going to care if you buy OEM for personal use.

If they didn't care, it wouldn't be in the EULA. Period.

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Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
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BAF said:

This whole discussion is silly anyway, because they aren't going to care if you buy OEM for personal use.

http://oem.microsoft.com/script/contentpage.aspx?pageid=563841

Quote:

There is a growing market for "do-it-yourself" home PC hobbyists who assemble PCs from components for their own use. Microsoft retail software licenses are the appropriate licenses for the do-it-yourself market. OEM System Builder software is not intended for this use, unless the PC that is assembled is being resold to another party.

[The OEM edition] Must be preinstalled on a PC and sold to another unrelated party.

Again, that last line isn't necessarily legally binding as it doesn't exist in the license.

So they definitely care, because the retail version makes them more money. :P

Now are they going to do anything about somebody building himself a PC? No. But it's not because they don't care... it's because it's not worth it and impossible to police. (They do, of course, perform business audits.)

BAF
Member #2,981
December 2002
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By "don't care" I was meaning that they aren't going to bother trying to prosecute you or not activate your copy of Windows. I've transferred OEM copies of Vista and 7 between machines without issue as well. It required a phone call in both cases - Vista required me to talk to someone and just tell them I wanted to transfer it (and then they activated it), and Windows 7 had an automated system that asked me how many machines it was currently installed on, then activated it for me.

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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By "don't care" you basically mean that Microsoft doesn't consider it economically feasible to assign an agent to personally moniter every individuals' actions. If you openly reveal yourself as violating their license you bet your ass they'll make an example of you.

Essentially, what you're saying is to violate their license terms because you are extremely unlikely to get caught, and even less likely to be taken to court, in which case you're basically paying $150 too much. You're just as illegitimate as if you had copied the software without expense in the first place, which makes paying the $150 about as intelligent as playing golf in a lightning storm with iron clubs.

I have a retail license for Windows 7 Ultimate, and it's purely for games. When I'm not playing games, I benefit absolutely nothing from Windows. A free Linux distribution provides me more reliable functionality and more features. I hope to never deem another Microsoft purchase relevant ever-a-fucking-gain.

Neil Black
Member #7,867
October 2006
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Windows 7 Home Premium is about $100 at my local Best Buy. That's not much more than a new game. And Home Premium has been able to do everything I need it to do over the last year. All in all, it seems like a decent deal.

EDIT:

My point being, why go to trouble to get around the license? Just buy the durn thing.

Karadoc ~~
Member #2,749
September 2002
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My understanding is that if you get a computer with OEM software, then the person who sold you the computer (with the software) is meant to provide you with tech support. ie. Microsoft is not obliged to provide tech support for OEM software. Also, the OEM software is only to be used on the computer that it came with. Retail copies of Windows can be reused on different computers (but only on one computer at a time), whereas OEM Windows is not meant to be reused.

As far as I know, those two points are the main difference between the OEM licence and the retail licence. (Please correct me if I'm wrong.) I think it's worth pointing out that both of those differences have the potential to save Microsoft some money — they don't have to provide support, and the software is meant to be repurchased for every new computer.

With that in mind, my interpretation of this:

Quote:

There is a growing market for "do-it-yourself" home PC hobbyists who assemble PCs from components for their own use. Microsoft retail software licenses are the appropriate licenses for the do-it-yourself market. OEM System Builder software is not intended for this use, unless the PC that is assembled is being resold to another party.

Is that they don't want to recommend the supportless OEM software for do-it-yourself PC hobbyists; such a recommendation could later cause problems for Microsoft and for the hobbyists — so Microsoft recommend the retail software licenses instead.

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Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
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so Microsoft recommend the retail software licenses instead.

No, they insist that doing anything else is illegal.

OICW
Member #4,069
November 2003
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If I'm not mistaken, the retail version comes with something like three licenses, so you can have it on three computers at a time. Or at least it used to be this way.

However, what really pisses me off are the various versions of Windows 7. Apparently all features are installed, but only some are activated depending on your license. You have a Win 7 Home and want to use Win XP mode? Sorry sir, you have to pay more or shut the hell up... >:(

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bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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OICW said:

If I'm not mistaken, the retail version comes with something like three licenses, so you can have it on three computers at a time. Or at least it used to be this way.

My retail copy of Windows 7 Ultimate says "for use on one computer" on the side (IIRC, something like CAD$350).

OICW said:

However, what really pisses me off are the various versions of Windows 7. Apparently all features are installed, but only some are activated depending on your license. You have a Win 7 Home and want to use Win XP mode? Sorry sir, you have to pay more or shut the hell up... >:(

Those versions are essentially to save the average broke consumer that isn't even likely to ever realize such a feature exists a little bit of money, which is more likely to result in a sale instead of piracy. For a computer professional, you might as well just accept that if you're going to buy a Windows license then you might as well get the entire package.

Evert
Member #794
November 2000
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bamccaig said:

Those versions are essentially to save the average broke consumer that isn't even likely to ever realize such a feature exists a little bit of money

Bollocks. They exist because it allows them to sell the full version for a higher price.
What, you think Microsoft develops a simple version, then spends extra time and resources on making a professional version with more options? Of course they don't. You think they have #ifdef WINDOWS_PRO_ULTIMATE_GOLD_ENTERPRISE in their source code to disable certain options in the cheaper version? I bet you they don't even have that.
Now, having a simplified option for the average user, who would just get confused otherwise (fewer options = simpler = better) is probably a good thing. But it has nothing to do with saving the average consumer some money.

And I'm sure Microsoft gets very upset whenever one of those really broke and poor consumers pirates a copy of Windows instead of opting for a freely available alternative.

OICW
Member #4,069
November 2003
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bamccaig said:

For a computer professional, you might as well just accept that if you're going to buy a Windows license then you might as well get the entire package.

Thank you very much indeed, my desire is to spend 350$ (I just tried to convert the retail price here and I was pleasantly surprised to see that it actually makes 350USD) to get all the features that are already present in the Home edition but aren't active :-/ Gee, and I've always wondered why it consumes so much disk space...

Hell, I don't even have the intention to download Win 7 Ultimate from MSDN AA because I was ripped off when I bought a new laptop. I didn't want Windows Vista, and got them because the configuration I've wanted wasn't sold w/o an OS.

bamccaig said:

My retail copy of Windows 7 Ultimate says "for use on one computer" on the side (IIRC, something like CAD$350).

I could swear I saw retail Windows XP package that permitted installation on three computers.

EDIT:

Evert said:

Now, having a simplified option for the average user, who would just get confused otherwise (fewer options = simpler = better) is probably a good thing. But it has nothing to do with saving the average consumer some money.

Agreed. It's just a way of making more money from a complete product by blocking certain functionality and selling keys for these locks.

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bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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Like I said, Windows is only worthwhile for gaming right now, and only if you want to play modern games like the Half-Life and Call of Duty series'. And only if you aren't satisfied with playing said games on a game console. For computer professionals, Linux has so much more to offer, and most of it is free is every sense of the word (and I'm sure I don't need to tell you this). :)

AFAIK, Microsoft does sell volume licensing packages, which would allow you to install on multiple machines, but it's more expensive (maybe you save the $1 for packaging materials :P).

OICW
Member #4,069
November 2003
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bamccaig said:

Like I said, Windows is only worthwhile for gaming right now

Yep, that's what my Vista is for right now - a bootloader for games. Well, I have tested my semestral project there as well, but that doesn't count :)

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William Labbett
Member #4,486
March 2004
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What concerns me is whether or not the human race will still be making computers at all in say 200 years time given the way things are going with global warming.

...but then I do have a psychiatric diagnosis

MiquelFire
Member #3,110
January 2003
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If you're not going to use all the features of Windows, and only use it for games, why spend all that money on Ultimate? Just get Home Premium, it's all you need. Now if you have need for those extra features (meaning you will use it for more than just playing games), I can see spending that extra money (if you're in a position that you have to pay for Windows anyway).

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OICW
Member #4,069
November 2003
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Of course. The Vista I have are Home Basic, or how it's called. However, if I ever was to buy Windows 7, I'd really like to buy at least the Professional edition simply because of the Windows XP mode. It's a sort of virtual machine that provides environment for the program you want to run.

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Karadoc ~~
Member #2,749
September 2002
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What programs do you want to run in XP mode?

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OICW
Member #4,069
November 2003
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So far I don't have any incentive of running anything on Windows. However, I want to be on the safe side for having the capability to run them. I would not really want to find myself in the situation that I'd need to run such a program and realise that I can't do it because I've bought stripped down version of extremely overpriced software. Mind you, even some 220$ or 230$ isn't really a price I'd like to pay.

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Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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Evert said:

And I'm sure Microsoft gets very upset whenever one of those really broke and poor consumers pirates a copy of Windows instead of opting for a freely available alternative.

Actually, they seem to get upset when you go for ANY alternative other than buying a retail copy of their OS, preferably Ultimate.

They've been known to claim that linux is illegal or imoral. When they couldn't prove it, they decided to help fund SCO's highly dubious legal battle.

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