Leaving A.cc and #allegro
Specter Phoenix

Ever since I joined the allegro community I've watched it turn into something I just couldn't stand. We have RTFM, no screenshot, no download!, and IRC always seems to be dead when I join it. I used to watch people download and play games without having pics with no complaints. Now the only way people will give a noob the time of day is if they learn their programming language of choice, learn allegro, and then add a screenshot function to it so they can (on top of programming the program to begin with) also provide pics to suade you to play and test a game they could have worked minutes or days to finish and get to the point where they are comfotable showing it off to just be met with No Screenshot! No donwload! on every game. This is why I've decided that I'm leaving both this site and IRC.

Been fun!

Bye!

Marcello

Bye!

ixilom

Bye!

SonShadowCat

Allegro will be the same without you. Ciao!

Number Six

Oh well! If you ever manage to find that Utopian Community where everybody is absolutely faultless, let us know eh?

Meanwhile, Does he have a point?

ixilom

I'm still a bit drunk/tipsy ... but I doube he has a point :P

Johan Halmén

I would say 'bye' but he has left.

FMC

Bye?

jhuuskon

Bye, don't hurry back!

Dennis

Bye.

Billybob

I don't see the problem with NSND. If the coder can't take the time to post a screenshot, why should we take the time to play his/her game? Why should we go out of our way to play his game? He should be going out of his way to make sure we play it not the other way around. Why? Because more often then not it is he who will take the most pleasure out of it. Unless it's a particularly entertaining game the reviewer gets the short end of the deal.

And people really should RTFM. It's a lot faster than making on post on a forum and sitting around doing nothing. I get more done when I don't post programming questions here (even complex ones). Not to say that a post with only "RTFM" isn't rude, but its point is valid.

Anywho! No real point to sayin' any of that :P Bye!

miran

Bye!

X-G

Don't forget your hat.

CursedTyrant

Bye!

Who was he, anyway?

Evert

Didn't you leave a few years ago already?

As for RTFM posts, I've made a fair deal of posts that simply link to the relevant section of the manual (usually omitting RTFM, though I know I've added that with a ;) a few times). It's usually just a question of people not beingaware that there is a manual, or they can't find the relevant function - which is fine, because we can point it out. I personally don't see much point in explaining again what's already explained in the manual.
Think of it this way: a lot of time and effort goes into writing and maintaining the manual. It is only reasonable if someone then takes the time to read it, don't you agree?

miran

I don't see what the problem with RTFM posts is. The manual is there for a reason and that reason is to be read by users. I often write RTFM posts and more often than not people they are directed at appreciate them. I wrote one as recently as yesterday.

ngiacomelli

I've been here for a while now, and I must admit, at first I was rather insulted when I posted for help and was either told 'RTFM' or linked to a piece of documentation. I think there's a fine line. If they are talking about an Allegro related problem, I think it's perfectly acceptable to link them to the manual. Sure, RTFM is a little 'sharp', but I think it's become so common that it's usually taken as a light hearted joke, now.

People like miran, X-G and Marcello are usually pretty terrifying to new people. But they're also extremely knowledgeable, as are many on this board. I think getting a couple of RTFM's and a few links to documentation has helped me! There's nothing like the rush of solving a problem on your own.

As for NSND: would you buy clothes without seeing them first?

jhuuskon

No, he just made a new account, tried to pose as his friend but then dropped the ball, abandoned the new account and renamed his old account.

Never think Finns will ever forget your humiliating moments. That, and envy, is in our DNA. :)

Jakub Wasilewski

Have a good trip to somewhere distant.

Yawn... I mean, what is it, the third time? And his arguments are... well, the same sort of arguments I would use to persuade people to use Allegro.cc, because there is less of each of those behaviours than on other sites. Except maybe for NSND, which is a strict, but sensible policy.

Epsi

It's always easier to point the finger and whine than to contribute I guess.

Bye.

nonnus29

Okay, bye. Good luck with the junior college classes.

Anyway, yes, his points were completely unfounded. NSND is perfectly reasonable, as history has shown and this noob was adequeately spoon fed I believe.

Richard Phipps

Jh: Those threads depress me. Lots of promising games that disappeared. :(

Steve Terry

Don't blame the community... blame ... World of Warcraft and it's brainwashing techniques.

Mr. Big

I used to act just like this guy some ten years ago.
People are so similar...
There's really no point in taking any of what he said seriously.

ReyBrujo

As we said at Wikipedia, he has the right to leave anytime, although he will be back :)

BAF

So long... and thanks for all the..... bah you didn't give me any fish.

nonnus29
Quote:

No, he just made a new account, tried to pose as his friend but then dropped the ball, abandoned the new account and renamed his old account.

That's not fair, I tried to create an account one time to pose as that ironbob kid (ironboob), but Matthew sent me a nasty email saying NOT to do that. I thought he meant I couldn't make a duplicate account, maybe he meant I shouldn't be poking fun at a 13 year old.... ???

Jakub Wasilewski
Quote:

As we said at Wikipedia, he has the right to leave anytime, although he will be back

So, according to these articles, we behaved in the worst possible way. Oh, well.

kentl

You seem to think that NSND is very hard to fulfill. If you can create a game I'm sure you will be able to get a screenshot of it. You want your game to look its best right? RTFM with a ;) and a point to the manual can't be considered to be rude either. But they are only the appropriate answer for very simple questions.

Good luck in the future! Bye.

Dennis

According to the second link that ReyBrujo gave, all replies given and also those not given to this thread are "wrong" and that some sort of brutal war is coming. Interesting but I hope that this war will be fought in a civilized way here without too many personal attacks.

About NSND and RTFM:
I think both are reasonable but it's also important to stay polite when pointing out either to someone who is new. It has to be made obvious that saying "NSND" to someone isn't meant to punish that someone for doing something wrong but that it is meant to help him/her to reach a greater audience.
"RTFM" should (if at all) always be presented with a link to the specific topic that might be of any help. I also think that directly saying "RTFM" is a bit rude and that it is better to use phrases like: "This piece of information here(link) should help" or "you might take a look at this(link)".

OICW

I must admit that it can be frustrating for a newbee if he gets "RTFM", remember we were all newbees at some point. But on the other hand I agree with most of you that that is why there's manual, it took me a damn long time before I got to know that there's manual. Since then I didn't asked for Allegro specific function anymore. Also there's a search function.

As for the "NSND", I must admit that I don't often test some games, but if I do so a screenshot is very helpful to get myself prepared for what I should expect. Anyway I tested some games without a screenshot, but I gave a note to originator to post it.

Anyway bye DeathGauge, I didn't know you well but "May the force be with you".

Mr. Big

It's not about the NSND or RTFM.
He just thinks that somebody will feel sorry for him and ask him to come back.
Taking him seriously only encourages this immature behaviour.
And besides, RTFM?
OMFGWTFMTFBBQ?!
He's here since 2001, for god's sake.

miran
Quote:

remember we were all newbees at some point

Speak for yourself. I was never a newbe. I was born with all the knowledge and wisdom there is in the universe. Want proof? Here you go: 42! :)

OICW

Heh, it's hard to tell if he's serious or not when he haven't posted since the first post. Also I gave a my opinion on the topic, which is not suprisingly different from the majority.

LennyLen
Quote:

I must admit that it can be frustrating for a newbee if he gets "RTFM", remember we were all newbees at some point.

How often do you see "RTFM" given as an answer to a first-time (or extremely new) poster however?* It's usually reserved for people who have already been told where to find the answer to such questions.

  • Yes it does happen sometimes, though the fact that it doesn't happen more often would tend to indicate that in the times it does happen, there is probably some external source of frustration for the person who wrote "RTFM", whether it be tiredness, general stress, or a sudden rash of questions by different posters that could have been answered had they read the menual.

OICW

Well, I don't know much circumstances, because I seldom post in programming questions, what you're saying sounds reasonable.

Miran: but do you also know a question to that answer? Heh? C'mon, say it, say it.

Rampage

Meh. He'll be back with some fake name, telling lies about his incredible knowledge of all things Allegro, his upcoming MMOOMGWTFBBQ or how he had a friend called "Death Gauge" who just left in anger because everyone here was horrible to him.

I think his impact on this community is better expressed by this post:

CursedTyrant said:

Who was he, anyway?

miran
Quote:

but do you also know a question to that answer?

That's not important. What matters is the Answer! :P

LennyLen
Quote:

Miran: but do you also know a question to that answer?

I know it's not THE question, but: How many trees must fall over in a forest before you can hear the sound of one hand clapping?

kentl
Quote:

How many trees must fall over in a forest before you can hear the sound of one hand clapping?

Most likely impossible to tell. We would need to find archaeological evidence of when the first sound of one hand clapping was heard. And when the first tree did fall. Then we need to find a correlation between the two.

Hard Rock

What I want to know is how the hell I can visit this forum everday and totally miss the linked posts!

In any case, I present to you, the Allegro.cc soap opera!

Dennis
Quote:

In any case, I present to you, the Allegro.cc soap opera!

Now that's a nice and fresh view to the war.8-)

Jakub Wasilewski
Quote:

I was never a newbe. I was born with all the knowledge and wisdom there is in the universe. Want proof? Here you go: 42!

All hail miran, who apparently read HHGTTG while still in the womb :).

I'm wondering what his next name will be. Harbinger ZERO, Death Gauge... maybe Massacre 2000?

Bruce Perry
Meatball Wiki: GoodBye said:

A GoodBye is a harbinger for brutal violence.

NSND is bad. "Sell the game: show us a screen shot!" is good. NSND is good if the problem persists.

RTFM is bad. "You should be able to find answers to questions like this in the manual" is good. RTFM is good if the problem persists.

Death Gauge is an important person with a lot of links in the gaming industry and a lot of valuable opinions to give. It also took him years of filling bookshelves and burning all the best libraries (including DUMB, bless him) to CDs over and over again, to write Pong. On the other hand, he's very humble, and that's why we'll be sad to see him go.

Bye :'(

X-G

The above post courtesy of Bizarro World.

Rampage

Wasn't the first post emo enough?

manjula

awkwardnd2.gif

Billybob

:'( Look at this. One man leaving has brought the community together for 2 pages already. :'( It's so beautiful. I love you guys! Group hug. :D

nonnus29

Now THAT was an awkward sexual advance.... :-[

kentl

Todays biology lession: Hugs != Sex ;)

Jakub Wasilewski
Quote:

Todays biology lession: Hugs != Sex

My childhood was a lie!

LennyLen
Quote:

My childhood was a lie!

Indeed! I thought that when mummies and daddies loved each other very much, they gave each other a special kind of hug...

nonnus29

Group hugs are what the 60's were all about....:o

Erkle

IMHO any post that doesn't contribute something useful isn't worth posting at all. Instead of posting NSND why not just simply not download the program, its kinda pointless posting to say you are one of the 7 billion people who aren't downloading it.

RTFM is inflammatory and cruel, wouldn't RTM be a bit more civil. Swearing in abbreviation is just the same as swearing in full, especially since a lot of us have already said we read abbreviations in full.

I guess it just comes down to the fact that noob-bashing makes you popular on A.cc. Over the past couple of years I've noticed a trend toward pseudo-pop-culture which basically consists of a bunch of Geeks, Freaks and Nerds calling each other noobs/idiots.

A.cc used to be a place where anybody could express there opinion/help/project without danger of negative comments. Every noob that you flame is another possibly brilliant programmer that will never come to pass, or worse, they may switch to SDL.

In conclusion, I think I might just be joining Death Gauge. I think I'll keep a reading the threads just so I can follow NSND with No Help No Post.

Bye! :P

P.S. There are still a few good people left on this forum. It's up to you to extinguish the flamers.

EDIT: Its funny that somebody can post a legitimate complaint only to be followed by over a page of examples of that complaint.

Billybob
Quote:

Todays biology lession: Hugs != Sex

Unless you're naked.

Quote:

Instead of posting NSND why not just simply not download the program, its kinda pointless posting to say you are one of the 7 billion people who aren't downloading it.

In this case NSND is informative; instructing the OP to post a screenshot so that others will download and review the application.

Quote:

RTFM is inflammatory and cruel, wouldn't RTM be a bit more civil.

Fuck! Only if you motherfuckers take every fucking shitty thing fucking seriously. Don't be fucking bitches. Nigga.

Matthew Leverton

{"name":"590236","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/d\/7\/d79d638b124ac464010094b643cf6e2b.png","w":800,"h":600,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/d\/7\/d79d638b124ac464010094b643cf6e2b"}590236

There's the door. Boohoo, yesterday was always better than today.

LennyLen
Quote:

IMHO any post that doesn't contribute something useful isn't worth posting at all. Instead of posting NSND why not just simply not download the program, its kinda pointless posting to say you are one of the 7 billion people who aren't downloading it.

While I'm not trying to defend a simple "NSND" post, at least they let the person know why their game isnt being downloaded.

Quote:

I guess it just comes down to the fact that noob-bashing makes you popular on A.cc. Over the past couple of years I've noticed a trend toward pseudo-pop-culture which basically consists of a bunch of Geeks, Freaks and Nerds calling each other noobs/idiots.

Oh come on, it's very rare here compared to other forums. And, as I've already said earlier in this thread, this is usually reserved for the newcomers who consistantly ignore the advice they are given.

If you want to see rude, obnoxious posting, check out the Kohan forums from 2-4 years ago (they're probably still just as bad, but I don't frequent them any more). There, a first time poster asking a question would often be met with "fuck off n00b/who the fuck are you?/ha ha loser n00b".

Quote:

Every noob that you flame is another possibly brilliant programmer that will never come to pass, or worse, they may switch to SDL.

See if you can find five incidents of a newcomer being flamed in the month, or couple of months. Unless you consider NSND/RTFM to be flames, which I personally don't.

Quote:

EDIT: Its funny that somebody can post a legitimate complaint only to be followed by over a page of examples of that complaint.

I take it you mean sarcastic farewlls are rude? Maybe, but they come from people who don't like DG (with or without good reason). Are you trying to imply you're such a saint that you're never impolite to people you do not like? We're not all that perfect.

Erkle
Quote:

Fuck! Only if you motherfuckers take every fucking shitty thing fucking seriously. Don't be fucking bitches. Nigga.

Noobs take everything seriously fucktard.

Mokkan
Matthew said:

There's the door. Boohoo, yesterday was always better than today.

Basically ;D. That's close to what I was thinking.

A.cc isn't bad at all. Complaining about NSND is just... wow. :P

SonShadowCat

In the end it doesn't matter. We're all expendable( save from a few of you) so someone leaving isn't something to waste emotions over.

Erkle

To Death Guage: I think they are trying to say, you are better off staying and spamming the shit out of them.

Quote:

A.cc isn't bad at all.

And that statement is probably what is making A.cc turn bad. Those who believe they can do no wrong are usually the root of the problem.

SonShadowCat

That would only make you look bad(worse) and result in a ban( or exactly the same things you're angry over, except you're the cause of it).

Matthew Leverton

So a student named Al has a dictionary on his desk, and he asks his teacher what "annoying" means. She tells him the answer, because she knows he will cry like a little baby if she doesn't spoon feed him. So when Al is at home, he takes out his homework. He doesn't know what some words mean. But no one is there to tell him. He doesn't do his homework, he fails his class, falls behind, drops out of school, and turns into a drug addict.

Meanwhile in another world, student Bobby has a dictionary on his desk. He too asks his teacher what a word means. His teacher, understanding that pointing a young learner in the right direction will help him learn how to solve problems, tells him to open up his dictionary and use it. Bobby figures out the answer himself and feels great. He goes home and eagerly does all his homework. He graduates at the top of his class, goes to the best university in the country and ends up a multi-millionaire.

And somewhere else, in a far away place, some new author is trying to get people to take time out of their day to read his book. Not knowing what it's about, they try reading the first couple pages, but get bored and just walk away. He cries to himself, gets discouraged and commits suicide.

On the next street, another author is giving away some books. But he has pictures that illustrate what the book is about. Interested passersby think it will be worthwhile to take a look and read it. They give the author some feedback, and he goes to bed a happy man.

kazzmir

I definately only read the math books with cool equations written on the cover.

Onewing

If allegro.cc is too tough on its newbies, then good! We are an accurate representation of the entire gaming population, from generous-always-nice posts to I-think-your-momma-is-fat posts to stop-posting-here-you-annoy-me posts.

I got chewed up when I first showed up here and I'll get chewed up everytime I say something stupid or close-minded, serves me right. If you can't take the heat, get out! Otherwise, better yourself.

And, see ya later, allegrogater!

Carrus85

Personally, I think people should take the RTFM and NSND advice for what it is; advice. Reading offense into these two statements in particular is quite immature, especially if there is a reason for the posting of them. Granted, telling someone to Read the fine manual[sic] might not be the nicest way to put it, but it gets the point across.

People just need to stop taking how people say things seriously, and pay attention to the meat of the post. They are telling you Read the fine manual[sic] for a reason! It isn't because you are n00b, or because they hate you, or even because they think you are stupid. It is because rewriting sections of the manual on a forum is a waste of the posters time, and robbing you the opportunity to learn how something works for yourself. Besides, most of the time, the manual tends to be a great deal more accurate and complete about certain issues than rewriting portions of it from memory could ever be.

In short, if you come here and ask something that is written down in the manual, it is to everyone's advantage to tell you to read said manual. If you come here with another question (like, say, Why doesn't X work? (where X is something not mentioned in the manual)), most, if not all, of us would be willing to help.

Please, some people just need to grow up and not take some of this crap so seriously.

Eradicor

Damn. After reading all of this i gotta say, i havent had so much fun at allegro.cc since the days of Owet. :D

But to the matter at hand. I remember once working something with Harbinger. Or aiding him.. or he aiding me. Cant remember the details. He seemed nice fella. Dont remember much tho. And i might completely be wrong about the person. Might have been someone else.

But about the Noobishnes thingy. Since i just a while ago hit to the Blender community seeking for all kinds of answers. People there seem to be VERY helpful. I dont remember seeing anything like that here. And after the help of very openminded persons i managed to actually learn Blender somewhat.

But someone said (Matthew i think) in that teacher example that the teacher should point the student to the source of all information instead of giving him/her it directly. I agree. Its maybe hard, but its the most rewarding way for the student to do it.

I have had my part of the Gauge's experience (Owetian days) and yeah. I was quite a retard back then. I think it was kinda very educative age. After years i am still here. Even tho i dont much really do games anymore.

Evert
Quote:

We are an accurate representation of the entire gaming population

Dear god, I hope not! :P

Anyway, to people complaining about new users being maltreated: can you post some links indicating that this is a structural problem? Quite frankly, I don't see where you're getting that impression, because I'm sure not seeing that in the threads I happen to read (which isn't all, but a reasonable fraction of the programming and setup threads anyway).

Epsi

Am I the only one waiting for piccolo's word of advice ?

Richard Phipps

We'll all be first against the wall when the revolution comes!

Trezker

No, the marketing division of the Sirius Cybernetics Corporation will be the first against the wall when the revolution comes.

Richard Phipps

We are the marketing division of the Sirius Cybernetics Corporation! Don't you remember? ;)

FMC
Quote:

Am I the only one waiting for piccolo's word of advice ?

Try my awesome MMORPG! ? ;D

Neil Walker

I remember a time when everyone would have blamed X-G for this, as all his gripes are X-G's standard replies to people ;)

CGamesPlay

Save us, Chris Barry!

23yrold3yrold

Ctrl + S ... done.

Richard Phipps

Cast a phoenix down!

23yrold3yrold

Throws a phoenix on the ground, stomps on it .... also done!

BTW, Clayton, go write a game or something, kthx.

Johan Halmén
Quote:

yesterday was always better than today.

Yes but worse than the day before yesterday.

Matthew said:

So a student named Al has a dictionary on his desk, and he asks...

That was such a nice story. I slept so well after reading it. Actually, only after two lines of it.

GullRaDriel

I will just say...

No I will not.

OICW

CGames & 23: don't do this again, I thought I'm going to die from laugh ;D

CGamesPlay

Well, I said it funnily, but 23, I think, was a great thing for this community. He was at the forums so much that he could get the first reply on many threads, and was always very helpful and nice in his reponses.

In turn, the people being helped learn that the community is a friendly, helpful place. When they get "RTFM", even with a link, they learn that this is the kind of thing we want to give to each other (as entheh said: linking to the manual is fine; linking with "RTFM" is not).

In the "The Next 23yrold3yrold" elections, ReyBrujo is winning. I try to answer nicely, too, and I have a WWCBD? sticker on my monitor.

Thomas Fjellstrom
CGamesPlay said:

I have a WWCBD? sticker on my monitor.

As a Christian is it a sin (that is, are you in sin) if YOU are the Idol that's being worshiped?

Rampage
Quote:

WWCBD

Why, spam of course!

Arthur Kalliokoski

The ones you want to see are the ones that leave (?) without saying anything. Where's Spellcaster?

ReyBrujo

I, the next 23? Geez, and I though I was innactive enough to lose the elections :(

CGamesPlay
Quote:

The ones you want to see are the ones that leave (?) without saying anything. Where's Spellcaster?

I'd just like to put it out there that if I don't respond to someone's goodbye thread, it doesn't mean I don't care... I just don't have anything to say :) Dennis Busch is the most recent good-bye thread that I haven't posted to (he is back now).

Quote:

I, the next 23? Geez, and I though I was innactive enough to lose the elections :(

The problem is that you are too nice. You can be less active, but if you really want to lose the election, just start insulting newbies' mothers.

[append]

where you said:

dynamic_cast, if you cast to a derived type, and returns NULL, it is not, if it returns a valid pointer, in example, if (dynamic_cast<SON1 *>(son_pointer) != NULL) (in this case, son_pointer is type SON1. Or, you can use typeid, in example, if (typeid(son_pointer) == typeid(SON1 *)) (then, son_pointer is of type SON1). Note that typeid is about twice as slow as dynamic_cast.

I suggest using the GetType() approach you mentioned, as it is much faster. If you were doing it correctly, you wouldn't need to know the type of a pointer.

you could have said:

amarillion

NSND, although good in principle, is propably best reserved for allegro regulars. For newbies it is probably better to give the message a little less harshly.

ReyBrujo

Well, truth be told, the NSND is now much easier to do with A.cc attachment/cache feature. You actually don't even need the attachment once the image has been cached.

OICW

I must admit that this is the best community I have ever contributed to. I think that those RTFM and NSND are well known among us, and we treat it like a good joke. But for a newbee or an outsider this can be somewhat rude.

Dennis
CGamesPlay said:

I'd just like to put it out there that if I don't respond to someone's goodbye thread, it doesn't mean I don't care... I just don't have anything to say :) Dennis Busch is the most recent good-bye thread that I haven't posted to (he is back now).

Oh you did reply to it. Just to make sure that this isn't understood wrong by those who don't know the backgrounds: My "goodbye"-thread was in fact just a "see you later"-thread without any sort of "hate you all I'm leaving" type of content.8-)

OICW

I think we all know it, but it's good to remember that you had told goodbye just make new BIG comeback ;)

Heh, it didn't took long and this thread has been derailed.

CGamesPlay
Quote:

Oh you did reply to it.

Oh, well I must not have responded to your "hi I'm back" thread :)

Dennis

But you did, also in the second one.:)

OICW said:

..BIG comeback..Heh, it didn't took long and this thread has been derailed.

Not sure what you mean there. I'd understand a BIG comeback as something like reentering the forums after a long absence with some kickass new game under ones belt.(My absence wasn't that long and I didn't have anything to show upon coming back, just changes in my life and nothing gamedevelopment related.) But yes, enough of the derailment and back on track.

Dustin Dettmer

You all are missing the point. The point is to scare away as many noobs as possible into regression. Less competition for the gaming jobs.

RTFM and NSND dishearten noobs, they're the building blocks of scaring them away.

CGamesPlay

I remember thinking to myself "I am not going to bother to post in that thread" when talking about one of them. Meh, who knows :)

ReyBrujo
Quote:

The point is to scare away as many noobs as possible into regression.

Hmm... I have heard something similar before... if we replace players with members... game with post... genre with forum... and we add the NSND and RTFM in the middle... let's see...

Quote:

As the less hardcore players members burn out on the game post mechanics of their favorite genres forums, they too are at risk of leaving the game market. The result is a steady erosion of the genre’s forum's population.

What is left is a very peculiar group of highly purified hardcore players members. They demand rigorous standardization of game mechanics (NSND, RTFM) and have highly refined criteria for judging the quality of their titles. With each generation of titles in the genre forum, they weed out a few more of the weaker players members.

BAF

The grass is always greener on the other side.

Erkle
Quote:

I must admit that this is the best community I have ever contributed to. I think that those RTFM and NSND are well known among us, and we treat it like a good joke. But for a newbee or an outsider this can be somewhat rude.

Exactly what I was trying to say. Unfortunately I'm a complete geek so communication is not my strong point.

I would be perfectly happy with NSND and RTFM as a reply to me but I just get annoyed with seeing noobs getting mistreated all over the internet. They aren't a specific breed of human that are naturally idiots they are normal people who may even be more intelligent than you or me. Its the fact that I care about A.cc that makes me despair when I see the usual crap appairing in what is otherwise a brilliant community.

Allegro has clearly been design entirely to be noob friendly so the forums should reflect this. For the most part they do.

EDIT: On the subject of ML's stories, if the student was told to read the dictionary but didn't know what a dictionary is or where to find it he would still end up commiting suicide.

wearetheborg

Not gone yet?? :o

Matthew Leverton
Quote:

On the subject of ML's stories, if the student was told to read the dictionary but didn't know what a dictionary is or where to find it he would still end up commiting suicide.

The dictionary is sitting right in front of him. He deserves to die then.

Erkle

But he's never been taught what a dictionary is.

wearetheborg

Why are you still here?? ???

Erkle

I haven't left this thread yet. I have left the rest of A.cc. And besides I may still stick around just to encourage/protect the noobs.

23yrold3yrold

R0FL; I feel loved. :P And for the record, I'm still a'codin'. It's just (mostly) messing with stuff like Irrlicht and writing little games and programs for the kids in my Sunday School class since I'm still low on free time.

And no, TMS ain't dead yet ...

LennyLen
Quote:

But he's never been taught what a dictionary is.

He just unquestioningly carries it to school every day and leaves it on his desk without knowing what it is?

Evert
Quote:

On the subject of ML's stories, if the student was told to read the dictionary but didn't know what a dictionary is or where to find it he would still end up commiting suicide.

That's why you don't say `read the dictionary', but you show him the dictionary and show him what part to read. He should pick it up from there. If he doesn't pick it up after a while and doesn't learn to use his dictionary, he probably shouldn't be persuing something that requires it, and move on to other interests.

Quote:

And besides I may still stick around just to encourage/protect the noobs.

I still challenge you to find links to concrete threads that show that new posters get abused systematically.

LennyLen
Quote:

I still challenge you to find links to concrete threads that show that new posters get abused systematically

I doubt he can, or he would have done so when I asked him to and the first time you did.

BAF

He left the rest of a.cc, so he can't. :-/

Torbjörn Josefsson

On a positive note: Sprinkling some semsame oil and sea salt on lightly boiled veggies tastes totally great!

Tobias Dammers

On the subject of ML's stories:
The dictionary metaphor is OK. The book one isn't.

If a book is written in such a poor style that reading the first page puts me to sleep, it doesn't deserve my attention.
If a book needs a flashy cover to catch my attention, it is likely to be written in such a poor style that reading the first page puts me to sleep.
A really really good book, though, is written in such a style that the first sentence alone makes you want to read the entire book, without interruption. Vladimir Nabokov, for instance, is a master of that art.

[edit]
Oh yeah, almost forgot:
Deraileee-Ho!

PaperStack
Quote:

I still challenge you to find links to concrete threads that show that new posters get abused systematically.

You haven't abused me... yet. :D

Quote:

Sprinkling some semsame oil and sea salt on lightly boiled veggies tastes totally great!

Olive oil is better in my opinion. ;)

kentl
Quote:

You haven't abused me... yet. :D

Who are you? RTFM! ;)

HoHo
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A really really good book, though, is written in such a style that the first sentence alone makes you want to read the entire book, without interruption.

I guess you will never read the Dune books then. The one I red had an introduction that was around 300 pages long :P

LennyLen
Quote:

You haven't abused me... yet.

You're not worthy of abuse... n00b!

PaperStack
Quote:

Who are you? RTFM! ;)

There we go! Yes... Thank you for the advice. :P

I knew as soon as I wrote that that I was setting myself up. I love it! :D

OICW

Dennis: I know, that's why I was saying BIG comeback. Well I guess I still haven't learned how to express sarcasm/irony in english. Time to die...

By the way:

Winston Smith said:

I understand HOW (are noobs discouraged): I do not understand why.

Evert
Quote:

I knew as soon as I wrote that that I was setting myself up. I love it!

Masochist.

LennyLen
Quote:

Well I guess I still haven't learned how to express sarcasm/irony in english.

It would probably have worked had it been spoken. That form of sarcasm is hard to detect when written down however. Using smilies can make it more obvious.

miran

Smileys are for noobs.

PaperStack
Quote:

Masochist.

I'm just saying that I can withstand a little abuse for starters. How did most the leaders (or whatever you want to call them) of A.cc get where they are now? They started off as "noobs" and perhaps endured a few insults for a while until they could show that they were "in for the long haul." :) <-- Smilie

LennyLen
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Smileys are for noobs.

Good thing I said smilies then.

Hard Rock
Quote:

That form of sarcasm is hard to detect when written down however. Using smilies can make it more obvious.

Case in point:

Quote:

Smileys are for noobs.

Observe the difference

Quote:

Smileys are for noobs. ;)

Richard Phipps

:)

Evert
Quote:

How did most the leaders (or whatever you want to call them) of A.cc get where they are now? They started off as "noobs" and perhaps endured a few insults for a while until they could show that they were "in for the long haul."

Actually, when I was a newbie... we didn't have internet. When I started posting here I was already familiar with both C and Allegro (though obviously not as familiar as I am now)... so in a sense, I was never a noob.

;)

PaperStack
Quote:

Actually, when I was a newbie... we didn't have internet. When I started posting here I was already familiar with both C and Allegro (though obviously not as familiar as I am now)... so in a sense, I was never a noob.

And that's why I said most. ;) Anyway... I'm still here. :P

Hard Rock

We can fix that :D

[edit]
RTFM!

PaperStack
Quote:

RTFM!

I've already had that one. :D

miran

STFU noob!

HoHo

UTFG to RTFM
n00bs ;)

I'm like Evert. By the time I could get to Internet I had been programming for several years. Back then I thought I was quite good but today I know I'm still a n00b :P

Tobias Dammers
Quote:

I guess you will never read the Dune books then. The one I red had an introduction that was around 300 pages long :P

Wrong. I have read one of them, and even though the introduction was quite long, it was still rewarding in itself, which kept me reading. It was when I realized the physical uselessness of these super-suits they wear when walking in the desert that I got an odd feeling about the whole thing. The style isn't half bad though. For an example of bad style, read the Harry Potter series.

Eradicor

I remember briefly looking trought djgpp before getting internet in Xmas 1996. 10 years oh my! Aniversery!

Anyway. I learned that i was noob. Now i am noob, and i will propably even degrade over time.

miran

Haha, success! He's gone! :D

One down, many to go...

PaperStack
Quote:

Haha, success! He's gone! :D

One down, many to go...

Uh... sorry. Not yet! Haha! :D

One still here, many more to come... ;)

Trezker

Where's the game we want a screenshot of noob?

miran

Damn, I was so close....

LennyLen
Quote:

Where's the game we want a screenshot of noob?

Its newb, you n00b!

OICW
Quote:

How did most the leaders (or whatever you want to call them) of A.cc get where they are now? They started off as "noobs" and perhaps endured a few insults for a while until they could show that they were "in for the long haul."

Few post earlier Miran stated that he was born with the knowlegde. After that he proved it by stating 42 ;) So he must know everything, well maybe, expcept the question for which 42 is answer, or maybe he knows the question but doesn't know the answer, well it can also be... doesn't matter now, what does really matter is that he know EVERYTHING, understand? EVERYTHING, that means E.V.E.R.Y.T.H.I.N.G. ;D

Onewing
Quote:

what does really matter is that he know EVERYTHING

Let's hope he uses it for good...

OICW

No, we're all gonna die... [panic...shooting...explosion...scream...flash...silence]

Rampage

Miran's mind was open to The Knowledge of the Universe the moment he was born. It proved too much for his baby mind to handle and, after visiting lots of psychiatrists and doctors, he could lead a somewhat normal life. He does know everything, but he still suffers from intolerance to noobs from his early years :(.

PaperStack
Quote:

No, we're all gonna die... [panic...shooting...explosion...scream...flash...silence]

I'm still here... :D (Sorry, miran.)

miran
Quote:

I'm still here... (Sorry, miran.)

Just wait until dark falls and everyone goes to bed. No one will suspect anything, but you will know I'm coming for you when the lights mysteriously go out, the doors in your house close by themselves and suddenly the air in your room gets very cold. You will know I'm coming, but you will lie in your bed, too petrified to even move. I will come for you in the middle of the night and I'll take you with me to my cave, where I'll skin you alive, roast you in my fire and then eat you for breakfast. With maple syrup. Muahahahahaha!

LennyLen
Quote:

I'm still here...

/me adds PaperStack to the auto-hide list.

Who's not here?

PaperStack
Quote:

Just wait until dark falls and everyone goes to bed. No one will suspect anything, but you will know I'm coming for you when the lights mysteriously go out, the doors in your house close by themselves and suddenly the air in your room gets very cold. You will know I'm coming, but you will lie in your bed, too petrified to even move. I will come for you in the middle of the night and I'll take you with me to my cave, where I'll skin you alive, roast you in my fire and then eat you for breakfast. With maple syrup. Muahahahahaha!

Oh, look at your cave... I stole all your knives and painted the walls bright pink. :D

miran
Quote:

Sorry again! I live outside.

Oh, and look at your cave... I stole all your knives and painted the walls bright pink.

OK, now you're just making things up...

PaperStack

Ok, ok... I took out the part about living outside...

But, I think that you made up the part about the maple syrup.

Onewing
Quote:

I will come for you in the middle of the night and I'll take you with me to my cave, where I'll skin you alive, roast you in my fire and then eat you for breakfast. With maple syrup. Muahahahahaha!

...Osama?

Rampage

Duh! Everyone knows Osama doesn't eat maple syrup. ::)

miran
Quote:

But, I think that you made up the part about the maple syrup.

But I like maple syrup.

Btw, are you going to post anywhere else other than the off-topic forums? Because you know, you're required to keep a ratio of at least 1:1 between posts in off-topic and posts in the more meaningful sections? It was in the fine print you OKed when you signed up. Otherwise you'll be banned from the site!

PaperStack
Quote:

Duh! Everyone knows Osama doesn't eat maple syrup.

And that's why I said that he made up the part about the maple syrup.

Quote:

Btw, are you going to post anywhere else other than the off-topic forums? Because you know, you're required to keep a ratio of at least 1:1 between posts in off-topic and posts in the more meaningful sections? It was in the fine print you OKed when you signed up. Otherwise you'll be banned from the site!

Btw, I have posted elsewhere: right here.

But, I will be sure to keep it up. :P

Rampage

[edit]

I'm such a fool.

LennyLen
Quote:

Btw, I have posted elsewhere: http://www.allegro.cc/forums/thread/587752/0

Damned n00bs!!! always linking to the entire thread and not the specific post!

Richard Phipps

Don't fear Miran. He's just annoyed because he's running out of good avatars. :)

SonShadowCat

Why is this still alive!?

LennyLen
Quote:

Why is this still alive!?

Have you forgotten where you are?

OICW

Because nobody still managed to denounce it to the thought-police, er moderators.

Edit:

Quote:

Quote:

No, we're all gonna die... [panic...shooting...explosion...scream...flash...silence]

I'm still here... :D (Sorry, miran.)

That was meant as what's happening down here ;)

Maybe Miran could use Big Brother as new avatar.

Onewing

I can't wait till the next RP day. ;D

OICW

Hehe, that thread was awesome ::)

[pointless opinion]
By the way isn't that game Alex The Allegator 4? (Just saw your sig) ;)
[/pointless opinion]

PaperStack
Quote:

Damned n00bs!!! always linking to the entire thread and not the specific post!

Ok... I will link more specifically next time. Thanks, I guess that makes me a very little less "noobish" now that I know. ;)

[edit]
Oh, and I fixed it.

Onewing
Quote:

By the way isn't that game Alex The Allegator 4? (Just saw your sig)

Why yes...yes it is. Well, I fixed it and changed the "soon to be in review" to a more accurate estimate.

OICW

Never mind. Maybe you should state classic "When it's done" ;)

Marcello

That's it! I'm leaving, too! So long space cowboys!

LennyLen
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That's it! I'm leaving, too! So long space cowboys!

Don't hit your head on the door on the... oh, do we have a door?

miran
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oh, do we have a door?

Yes, it says "EXIT" on it. Haven't you read this whole thread?

LennyLen
Quote:

Haven't you read this whole thread?

Read it?!?! Nah, I just look at the pictures.

Thomas Fjellstrom

Pictures?

LennyLen
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Pictures?

Avatars are peoplepictures too!

Oh, and ML drew a picture earlier, which now that I look at it again has the door with EXIT marked on it... so I guess I wan't looking at the pictures. :-[

Onewing
Quote:

So long space cowboys!

つづく。。。

Rampage
Quote:

That's it! I'm leaving, too! So long space cowboys!

Great! If enough people leave, I could become the new master of this site! Mwahahahaha!

Richard Phipps

Bye Marcello! :'(

Johan Halmén
Death Gauge's profile said:

Member since: 07/23/2001 12:14 AM

Marcello's profile said:

Member since: 26-01-2002 05:36

Wonder how that is going to change. And what happens to the member instance with all posts and stuff on the depot. Wait... seems there's only a pong thing by Death Gauge.

BAF

We could make a reality show out of this. Who will be the next person to leave a.cc!

jhuuskon

I'm not participating but i'd like to take this opportunity to point out that Thomas Bangalter is a genious.

LennyLen
Quote:

I'm not participating...

Oh really?

Quote:

Bye, don't hurry back!

Quote:

No, he just made a new account, tried to pose as his friend but then dropped the ball, abandoned the new account and renamed his old account.

Never think Finns will ever forget your humiliating moments. That, and envy, is in our DNA

It seems that Finnish memory only is good for remembering the humiliating moments of others. :P

jhuuskon

I was referring to the reality show BAF proposed...

LennyLen

Aha! But, mayhap, this IS the reailty show.

piccolo

i think he should have posted a link to some sad background music. like the hulk music that was played on family guy. its all about setting the mood. the mood people how may time do i have to tell you

[edit]
a 2 hour programing contest is like a reality show. watching the noobs crack under the persure when the realize they cant code a single problem

LennyLen
Quote:

the mood people how may time do i have to tell you

About as often as we have to tell you to use correct capitalization and punctuation, no doubt.

OICW

Woohoo, this thread has been completely derailed. Now who are we gonna vote off, if you propose the reality show?

LennyLen
Quote:

Now who are we gonna vote off, if you propose the reality show?

Whoever wins the a.cc poll, no doubt.

CGamesPlay
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a 2 hour programing contest is like a reality show.

Ah, well, we haven't got any of those around here ;)

SonShadowCat
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We could make a reality show out of this. Who will be the next person to leave a.cc!

According to the poll on the main page, 23yrold is next followed closely by XG!

OICW

And do you think that they'll go away if we'd vote them off? Of course we can make them so by forcing them to quite, I mean by banning them... But I smell rebellion in that case ahead, since I hope we're free community :D

wearetheborg

The person who ends up with the most votes will have to fight for his survival and prove that he is worthy of this forum. I just haven't figured out how though...

Inphernic
Quote:

I just haven't figured out how though...

"Tits or gtfo" is an universal method of figuring worthiness out.

Rampage

Do man-tits count?

jhuuskon

Manboobs FTW!

Thread #587812. Printed from Allegro.cc