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Can some English speaker help me understand this? |
type568
Member #8,381
March 2007
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{"name":"610488","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/e\/d\/edf278ef769bf8934d3cdd9270f3163c.jpg","w":960,"h":634,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/e\/d\/edf278ef769bf8934d3cdd9270f3163c"} The question is.. What does the "for" stand for? Would it be grammatically correct without the "for"(I think it would be)? And well, it's no hard to understand what she wants to say, but I totally miss the structure of the sentence. Thanks.
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Bruce Perry
Member #270
April 2000
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It definitely sounds natural with the 'for' and unnatural without. If the sentence didn't have the 'was', e.g. "I wanted him to love me", then we wouldn't have the 'for'. With the 'was', some stress will naturally fall on whatever word comes next if we're not careful, and the 'for' prevents that from happening with 'him'. Therefore I think the 'for' helps indicate that 'him' now has to do something - the sentence can't just end with 'him', and 'him' is not such an important noun in the overall structure. The emphasis now falls on 'love'. I can also confirm that the 'for' has no extra meaning beyond gluing stuff together.
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dthompson
Member #5,749
April 2005
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It is one of the stranger uses of 'for'. It can appear in the present and future tense too: "All I really want is for him to love me." "All I will ever really want is for him to love me." From what I can see, this is actually the idiomatic verb "to want for". See here: ______________________________________________________ |
piccolo
Member #3,163
January 2003
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"Wanted was for" is past to present a duration of prosived love. edit I dont see where you get future tense from it dude. wow |
type568
Member #8,381
March 2007
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I'm not sure I'm able to process this. More sleep might help, will get it soon.
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LennyLen
Member #5,313
December 2004
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piccolo said: "Wanted was for" is past to present a duration of prosived love. That sentence makes no sense whatsoever. However, both wanted and was are always past tense, never present tense. Quote: edit I dont see where you get future tense from it dude. A little bit of reading comprehension will show that he wasn't referring to the line in the original post, but to the line in his own post: "All I will ever really want is for him to love me."
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piccolo
Member #3,163
January 2003
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It works under the same concept of double negative make a positive. wow |
AMCerasoli
Member #11,955
May 2010
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Bruce Perry
Member #270
April 2000
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AMCerasoli said: Yes, there are still people who don't know that. No there aren't Quote: any comment you have about him keep it for yourself, thank you Yeah, I didn't want to be the one to picc on him -- |
LennyLen
Member #5,313
December 2004
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Bruce Perry said: Yeah, I didn't want to be the one to picc on him I really want to nitpicc your comment.
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Bruce Perry
Member #270
April 2000
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Hate to be PICC=Y, but YOLO. -- |
type568
Member #8,381
March 2007
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Alright, I guess after reading & rereading the relevant replies couple of times, I understood what's wrong if it was just a: "All I ever wanted was him to love me.", as this way generally logic ends on the "him", and then "to love me" is kind of lacking logical attachment. This way the for kind of describes an act of wish, which is her desire for his love. Could someone give another example please? And are there similar cases using a word that differs from the "for"? P.S:
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Dizzy Egg
Member #10,824
March 2009
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I longed for type568 to stop asking questions, for he was annoying me.
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type568
Member #8,381
March 2007
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Is this why you invited me to smoke the pipe of peace? Well, it isn't difficult to understand. Totally not something I'd use. Is it possible to replace the "for he was annoying me" with "as he was annoying me"?
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Dizzy Egg
Member #10,824
March 2009
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Aww I was only jesting, hence the ! I think so - I am English but I'm no master of the language, but to me these are both fine: I stopped loving Dizzy, Someone probably knows a rule to use one over the other, or which is correct, but they would both be understood here. (Offer still stands, got some new audio hardware too we could rinse out)
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type568
Member #8,381
March 2007
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Thanks for the invite again. I'm unsure it's doable now, as the oil price is too low yet. In your example the as sounds fine to me, the for sounds weird. So, we have a weird for, and an understandable as. Is there anything else I don't know after studying it for twenty years? :\
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Dizzy Egg
Member #10,824
March 2009
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There's loads of stupidness (not just in the language) - as example....I mean, for example, you could be reading in Reading, and it could be me and type568 or type568 and I, and give your daughter water....and others. I want to emigrate.
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Bruce Perry
Member #270
April 2000
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Dizzy's 'for' means 'because', and is correct and normal, but it's not an example to match the one in the original screenshot. Also, Dizzy, when you suggest a choice between "me and type568" and "type568 and I", you're telling me you've fallen victim to one of the most common mistakes people make. The rules are rarely explained properly at school, and they are:
Anyway, you wanted another example of 'for' used in the same way as in the original screenshot. Here's one: "The best thing would be for Windows 10 to be so widely rejected that Microsoft are forced to make it look exactly like Windows 7." type568 said: I asked this question here after a girl sent me this screenshot, and was naive enough to give her the url. She's more likely to be bothered by you saying that than by our shenanigans, you know Or in other words, "That escalated quickly" -- |
Dizzy Egg
Member #10,824
March 2009
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Told you someone smart would explain it all.....for as I said with me and I....I'm learning all the time
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Johan Halmén
Member #1,550
September 2001
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I don't get it. After reading the article that dthompson linked to, I'd rearrange the original quote to "All I ever really wanted for was him to love me." ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Years of thorough research have revealed that what people find beautiful about the Mandelbrot set is not the set itself, but all the rest. |
Bruce Perry
Member #270
April 2000
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The original sentence does not mean "All I ever lacked", it means "All I ever desired". The references to "want for" are a red herring. Your rearranged version has a different meaning (as well as suffering because we then want a second 'for': "All I ever really wanted for was for him to love me"). -- |
Johan Halmén
Member #1,550
September 2001
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type568 said: I understood what's wrong if it was just a: "All I ever wanted was him to love me.", as this way generally logic ends on the "him", and then "to love me" is kind of lacking logical attachment.
If #4 lacks logical attachment, then #2 does it, too. Then #2 requires the "for" as well. I guess #4, compared to #2, just makes it a bit more difficult to follow the completely logical grammatical logic. To me, adding the "for" completely destroys the logic. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Years of thorough research have revealed that what people find beautiful about the Mandelbrot set is not the set itself, but all the rest. |
beoran
Member #12,636
March 2011
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Languages aren't always purely logical or consistent. In this case, the "for" is simply needed because that is the way English is and has become though evolution of the language. If that irks you, be happy that you're not in France, where you would have to say quatre vingt dix neuf (four scores nineteen) to say 99. |
Johan Halmén
Member #1,550
September 2001
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beoran said: because that is the way English is This is a good explanation because it is. You can also read my four sentences back and forth, until you get to see that the "for" is not needed. Or until you become a cat person. Or until you turn gay. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Years of thorough research have revealed that what people find beautiful about the Mandelbrot set is not the set itself, but all the rest. |
Bruce Perry
Member #270
April 2000
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I would say that "I want him to love me" uses a specific construction of the form "want X to Y". The "X to Y" cannot be isolated and treated as a noun phrase. On the other hand, perhaps "for him to love me" is a noun phrase - I can provide another example which works, which is "For him to love me would be the best thing that has ever happened." So when you switch to a different construction, "All I ever wanted was", and you need a noun, then this is what you do. beoran is right though - while you can often find explanations like this if you think clearly enough, there are cases that Just Don't Make Sense and are the way they are because, for some reason, everyone just found themselves agreeing on the idiomatic way to say something. Ever tried figuring out the expression "I had better do it"? -- |
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