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linux doing well
furinkan
Member #10,271
October 2008
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Are you sure that it's not something you guys are doing? We switched from Oracle to MS SQL Server a couple of years ago and have never looked back.

I switched from bloated proprietary bullshit a couple years ago and never looked back. ;D

BAF
Member #2,981
December 2002
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furinkan said:

they had separate driver CDs for Vista and Windows 7... on Linux I just plugged them in and they worked immediately.

It would have worked fine on Vista or 7 just plugging it in as well. The CDs are usually useless these days.

bamccaig said:

The real reason people are afraid of open source is because (a) they aren't familiar with it and/or don't know anything about it; and (b) they are usually already cornered by vendor lock-in and think that they're satisfied with what they have.

::)

You probably just think you're satisfied with Linux.

Are you sure that it's not something you guys are doing?

I was going to say the same thing. SQL Server has been the easiest to set up in my experience. Oracle, by far, has been the absolute worst to set up, configure, use, etc.

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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BAF said:

The CDs are usually useless these days.

How will you get all the adware on your computer without the CD? All the marketroids want to know! :P

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

Karadoc ~~
Member #2,749
September 2002
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How will you get all the adware on your computer without the CD? All the marketroids want to know! :P

They already know. It typically comes on a hidden partition on the hard-drive so that you can 'restore' the original software.

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Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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The hardware that came with the CD wasn't a part of the shovelware on the hidden partition, so it wasn't included.

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

Specter Phoenix
Member #1,425
July 2001
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Problem is that too many companies equate Linux distros to open source and very few even think about releasing source code in any form. One company you can almost bet will never support Linux is Bethesda (look how they are screwing PC and PS3 owners over). Valve realizes the potential for Linux, and honestly I think everyone is wrong about paying for games. I would buy games off steam if I could play them under Linux in a heart beat.

The other thing I think plays into how little Linux is received, is the fact that it is considered a programmer's operating system and not a gamer's OS like Windows. Too many companies get used to a sure thing and staying in their comfort zone rather than pushing what can be done on different platforms. Think about it, in regards to the consoles, if the companies pushed the PS3 to its boundaries instead of bitching about the design curve and actually learn the curve and adapt to it, then the PS3 could very well blow the PC and 360 out of the market. This will never happen because, as many devs have said, they like the ease to develop on the 360 and don't really push the PS3 dev due to complexity. Seems everyone is getting comfortable with how everything is in the world and in the game industry.

It's about time the phrase "Push the boundaries!" actually mean something again everywhere.

Karadoc ~~
Member #2,749
September 2002
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The hardware that came with the CD wasn't a part of the shovelware on the hidden partition, so it wasn't included.

What are you talking about? Of course 'the hardware that came with the CD' isn't on a hidden partition. Hardware can't be stored like that. -- Previously asked how the 'marketroids' should put 'adware' on the computer. -- Now I don't know what you're talking about at all. But I'll take a stab at answering anyway:

On Windows, drivers for pretty much everything reside in Windows archives. So when you get some new hardware and plug it in, Windows can install the required drivers from those archives. If the drivers are not found there, Windows can download the drivers from the internet.

I suppose if someone wanted to include some bloatware on the driver CD so that any computer with driver would also have the bloatware, then that's just too bad. That doesn't happen anymore. They'll just have to try to get their bloatware included as part of the OEM software package for new computers.

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furinkan
Member #10,271
October 2008
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Oh, nitpick if you want, but the point I'm making is Windows (mainly Vista and XP, but 7 also) does not recognize hardware that I have plugged in. Tablets, cameras, printers...

Somehow, this OS that didn't cost me any money recognizes these things flawlessly. I find that kinda funny...

Karadoc ~~
Member #2,749
September 2002
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Who's nitpicking? BAF just pointed out that Windows automatically recognises hardware as well, and Arthur and I were talking about something somewhat unrelated (I think).

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BAF
Member #2,981
December 2002
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In my experience, Win7/Vista have only failed to recognize and get appropriate drivers for hardware once or twice, and that was with obscure hardware that I expected to have to go digging for. :-/

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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http://dendory.net/blog.php?id=509ec629

They don't have to put up with it, they just need to install a decent OS.

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

torhu
Member #2,727
September 2002
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http://dendory.net/blog.php?id=509ec629
They don't have to put up with it, they just need to install a decent OS.

Windows pays the price of popularity: crapware, adware, viruses, botnets. If "normal" (not you and me) people in significant numbers were actually buying computers with Linux preinstalled, the same thing would happen there. The first rule of buying a Windows computer is: format and reinstall before you do anything else.

With Windows 8 there are now two seperate ecosystems in one OS, which means twice the amount of things to complain about. I can't wait to see how this is going to unfold.

Trezker
Member #1,739
December 2001
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The difference with Linux is that you may be able to get a distro that doesn't crap things up because there is a community that is tech savvy enough and anti crap enough to put one together.

Ubuntu is certainly heading down the crap route at lightspeed though...

Specter Phoenix
Member #1,425
July 2001
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Trezker said:

Ubuntu is certainly heading down the crap route at lightspeed though...

It is? Really? Wow, it has gotten to the point that Ubuntu is all I use in regards to Linux. I believe me I've tried a lot.

torhu
Member #2,727
September 2002
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Trezker said:

The difference with Linux is that you may be able to get a distro that doesn't crap things up because there is a community that is tech savvy enough and anti crap enough to put one together.

Yeah, but for the average consumer that's not going to help. It's all based on most people not knowing what they need to do. We're still going to be fine.

weapon_S
Member #7,859
October 2006
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Heh, and Steam is 'only' coming to Ubuntu. Why the heck didn't they just do general Debian? :P I wanna play.
Linux has its crud. I sometimes hear people complain that the innards of X are crud. If that's true, I can imagine it to be as much of a monster as Windows' DOS legacy.

torhu
Member #2,727
September 2002
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weapon_S said:

I sometimes hear people complain that the innards of X are crud. If that's true, I can imagine it to be as much of a monster as Windows' DOS legacy.

Windows NT has nothing to do with DOS. That stuff died with Windows ME (Mega Excrement). Microsoft went to the crapper and took a big dump.

The Linux desktop is still slow compared to Windows, maybe getting rid of X would fix that. Windows still needs a competitor, as Apple has excluded themselves by staying mainly a hardware company.

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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The Windows desktop is way slower than GUI environments in GNU/Linux. Everything is slower in Windows. Keep in mind that GNU/Linux users mostly still use Windows (e.g., at work) so we have lots of experience with both systems. You're wasting your "breath".

As for Ubuntu, I'd say it's the least free distro imaginable. They don't care about using non-free software and make it convenient to do so. They also dumb the distro down to make it more accessible to lusers, which has its merits, but ultimately it makes the system vulnerable, compromising many of its usual strengths. Obviously if a luser has full root access then the system is just as vulnerable as any Windows system. At the very least, they should have to work to unlock those capabilities. Ubuntu makes it easy to access the full power of root by default (in fact, they don't even acknowledge the root account by default, instead granting unrestricted sudo access to lusers).

Ubuntu is Debian for dummies, with additional non-free software prompts (i.e., you need some software that is illegal due to software patents and the like, click OK to install it). You have to ask yourself how Canonical, Ltd. gets away with that.

torhu
Member #2,727
September 2002
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bamccaig said:

Keep in mind that GNU/Linux users mostly still use Windows (e.g., at work) so we have lots of experience with both systems.

Windows systems at work are usually bogged down with a million background processes, bad antivirus software, etc. Maybe that can explain why Windows seems slow.

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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torhu said:

Windows systems at work are usually bogged down with a million background processes, bad antivirus software, etc. Maybe that can explain why Windows seems slow.

Maybe. But that's the default mode for windows. You generally have to work at it to get a clean system, which is something most people won't do.

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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torhu said:

Windows systems at work are usually bogged down with a million background processes, bad antivirus software, etc. Maybe that can explain why Windows seems slow.

I j0rb at a small company so there's no stupid IT department with ridiculous rules (even if there is, your software developers had better be exempt from their rule or you have a problem). I maintain my own workstation. I install a clean copy of Windows and all my developer tools. I install my own anti-virus software and make sure that only the programs and services that I want running automatically do. Windows is still slow. I also run Windows at home for PC gaming (though I hope Valve negates the need to in the coming years).

torhu
Member #2,727
September 2002
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Specter Phoenix
Member #1,425
July 2001
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I had to change from Debian to Ubuntu because Debian didn't seem to support any of my hardware. Not tried any other *nix distros to see if they supported them now. I'm sure they support it now, but don't see the point of changing OSes since I only code under it for the most part.

Killing Floor? Great, that is one I played on Steam, sucked at it, but not really easy to be good or bad at it.

SiegeLord
Member #7,827
October 2006
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BAF just pointed out that Windows automatically recognises hardware as well

Just plugged a USB printer into my laptop with Windows 7, and it didn't provide any sort of feedback... what's worse is that the printer's website says that Windows 7 auto-detection is the only way to get drivers for this printer, there is no downloadable driver for it! I'll have to try some workabouts sometime later, but meh... when I plugged that printer into the same laptop running Linux, everything worked automatically :P.

Also, when I installed Win7 onto that laptop I had to spend at least an hour getting random drivers for stuff like USB3, built in audio, wifi, etc etc. My Linux installation on the same laptop probably took 3x time less.

"For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increases knowledge increases sorrow."-Ecclesiastes 1:18
[SiegeLord's Abode][Codes]:[DAllegro5]:[RustAllegro]

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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SiegeLord said:

Windows 7 auto-detection is the only way to get drivers for this printer

Win 7 still has auto-run, doesn't it? You've disabled it, haven't you?

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

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