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I spent less than Bambams was going to spend
MiquelFire
Member #3,110
January 2003
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If you have 3GB of RAM or less, there's no real point in running 64-bit. 4GB is borderline however.

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Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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If you have 3GB of RAM or less, there's no real point in running 64-bit. 4GB is borderline however.

Are you talking about how 32 bit can access 3.2Gb, or do you mean it's not enough ram to run it?

{"name":"fDk9N.png","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/b\/1\/b1f62e477bbb46aa30ccec9b17de059d.png","w":596,"h":545,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/b\/1\/b1f62e477bbb46aa30ccec9b17de059d"}fDk9N.png

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
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Mr. Ben is waiting on his gigarams to arrive.

I, however, run 2GB on 64-bit fulltime. There's more to running a 64-bit OS than being able to access more RAM.

Bruce Perry
Member #270
April 2000

Matthew, do you also have swap disabled? Which OS?

--
Bruce "entheh" Perry [ Web site | DUMB | Set Up Us The Bomb !!! | Balls ]
Programming should be fun. That's why I hate C and C++.
The brxybrytl has you.

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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There's more to running a 64-bit OS than being able to access more RAM.

But I don't see the disassembly of current C compilers making good use of all those additional (and larger) registers.

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

Tobias Dammers
Member #2,604
August 2002
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If you have 3GB of RAM or less, there's no real point in running 64-bit. 4GB is borderline however.

I, however, run 2GB on 64-bit fulltime.

Same here. 64-bit debian, 2 GB RAM. No problems whatsoever, the machine hardly ever touches swap (except when I run two or three virtual machines simultaneously).

Maybe it's a windows thing.

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Me make music: Triofobie
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"We need Tobias and his awesome trombone, too." - Johan Halmén

Evert
Member #794
November 2000
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If you have 3GB of RAM or less, there's no real point in running 64-bit.

Faster 64 bit arithmetic comes to mind.
My chess program is about 50% faster in 64 bit mode than in 32 bit mode, for instance.

Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
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On Linux, swap is enabled. It doesn't seem to ever need it.

On Windows 7 (64-bit) I never enable swap space. But I don't use it for much, so I don't know if it would ever complain. I used to use Windows XP a lot, and it never had a problem with no swap.

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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Evert said:

Faster 64 bit arithmetic comes to mind.

My chess program is about 50% faster in 64 bit mode than in 32 bit mode, for instance.

You're using bitfields for the 64 positions? Actually my bignum calculator is 4x faster for multiplying since it can do 64 bit multiplies in one fell swoop instead of high/low/high/low, but this sort of thing isn't needed often.

[EDIT]

On Linux, swap is enabled. It doesn't seem to ever need it.

I like to push test programs to the limit to see what happens. Here I "drew" 100000000 lines of text to make sure my scrollbars worked right.

{"name":"7Ie3O.png","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/4\/7\/4789e79bfb9428c810d8aca23d42a36a.png","w":831,"h":618,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/4\/7\/4789e79bfb9428c810d8aca23d42a36a"}7Ie3O.png

[EDIT2]

I just calculated that for a monitor to show all those lines at once would be ~531km high. I have an old TimexSinclair 2000 with 2 kilobytes of ram, when you get to about 50 lines of BASIC typed in, the previous characters start disappearing instead of showing more because it's running out of ram. We've come a long way in 20 years...

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

Evert
Member #794
November 2000
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You're using bitfields for the 64 positions?

Yes. Each bit records a true/false statement about a position on the board.
I'd have to check how much 64 bit mode matters for floating point calculations (if at all), but if it does, then I'm getting a boost there as well (though not in my chess program, which doesn't use any floating point calculations).

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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Evert said:

I'd have to check how much 64 bit mode matters for floating point calculations

The gcc compiler (maybe all 64 bit compilers) exclusively use the SSE registers for all floating point calculations, I've used the f87 registers without problems in assembly language (they don't get trashed).

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

Trent Gamblin
Member #261
April 2000
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Speaking of hardware fetishes, I just bought 6GB of ram for my macbook (to replace the 4GB in there now, what a waste but I'll sell it on ebay) and a 750GB scorpio black hard drive. I'll need the extra RAM at some point, and I need the extra disk space now, with 3 operating systems plus 3 vms (and I'll be adding more)... I have a 320GB scorpio black in the machine now, and it's a great drive, but I've already run out of disk space completely several times.

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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Yeah, after demonicmaniac told me to look at thinkwiki for unoffical ram specs of my thinkpad, I'm probably going to upgrade to 8G on this laptop. I just have to buy two $80 4G DDR2 SO-DIMM modules.

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Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

Trent Gamblin
Member #261
April 2000
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6GB is the max for this laptop. Apparently it'll take 8 but something makes the system unstable with 8.

Evert
Member #794
November 2000
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The gcc compiler (maybe all 64 bit compilers) exclusively use the SSE registers for all floating point calculations,

I know, but I haven't benchmarked how much of a speedup that gives for 64 bit mode (if any).

Quote:

I've used the f87 registers without problems in assembly language (they don't get trashed).

But are slower, right?

I just bought 6GB of ram for my macbook (to replace the 4GB in there now, what a waste but I'll sell it on ebay)

Shame. I upgraded the RAM in my MacBook to 4GB (from 2 GB) less than two weeks ago.
Makes a nice difference too, I don't have 4 GB used at the moment, but I do have more than 2 GB used (a lot of which is cache of course, and another large chunk of which is Firefox).

Apparently it'll take 8 but something makes the system unstable with 8.

I read that that problem is solved with the latest firmware update, possibly depending on OS version.

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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Evert said:

But are slower, right?

I poked around awhile looking for the mandelbrot directory that had this stuff and failed.
IIRC, rearranging the code to look like assembly did more to speed it up than using SSE.
Either way was faster than the old asm I wrote for 287. I suppose I could write a thing based on that old code that used the 16 SSE registers to calculate 8 pixels at a time, but I'm insufficiently interested.

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

Bob Keane
Member #7,342
June 2006

Thought I'd jump in and give everyone a laugh. I'm not upgrading/replacing old hardware with new, I just ordered a monitor for an Inspiron 3500 laptop. Even with 2nd day shipping, it's costing less than what you two are spending. I probably could use a new EIDE hard drive for my desktop.
[edit] I just spent $25 USD for a 160g hard drive. I can't believe they are so cheap.

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BAF
Member #2,981
December 2002
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swap disabled since it's bad for SSDs

I leave swap enabled on my ssd. Makes for less hassle when things want or expect swap, and its not like it will wear out the ssd that fast. I recall seeing some calculations at one point that gave many years with swap usage on ssd.

Trent Gamblin
Member #261
April 2000
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Evert said:

I read that that problem is solved with the latest firmware update, possibly depending on OS version.

From my googling, I couldn't positively determine that it would work, so I ordered 6. Most sites said 6 was the max, with "possibly working with firmware update". Played it safe.

Bruce Perry
Member #270
April 2000

My secondary hard disk arrived today, so I've set up some swap space on it and everything works now!

Portal now runs properly! And it's epically smooth the whole time, unlike on my laptop where it got jerky towards the end. And the GPU was quiet as a mouse. And Portal took advantage of my rear speakers. @.@

The new hard disk is the loudest component in there when it revs up. Hopefully it'll do that less often when I've got my 8 GB. ;D

--
Bruce "entheh" Perry [ Web site | DUMB | Set Up Us The Bomb !!! | Balls ]
Programming should be fun. That's why I hate C and C++.
The brxybrytl has you.

ImLeftFooted
Member #3,935
October 2003
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I spent $600 on mine and it came with wireless internet and a 10 hour battery life.

Tobias Dammers
Member #2,604
August 2002
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I spent $600 on mine and it came with wireless internet and a 10 hour battery life.

10 hours? I want that!

---
Me make music: Triofobie
---
"We need Tobias and his awesome trombone, too." - Johan Halmén

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
avatar

10 hours? I want that!

Sounds like a shitty netbook, or an iPad (or similar device).

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

Trent Gamblin
Member #261
April 2000
avatar

For that price, yeah. There are nice notebooks that will last that long. I think the newer macbook pros and I've heard of some thinkpads that do too.

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
avatar

I think the newer macbook pros and I've heard of some thinkpads that do too.

I have my doubts. The only laptop style devices I know of that can last 10 hours are really netbooks (or at least "sub-notebooks"). Like the MacBook Air, or the ThinkPad X series.

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

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