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Is this a new bodycount record?
Neil Black
Member #7,867
October 2006
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Sure they did. Why didn't the Soviet Union just march across America? Because we had guns! Of course I'm using guns as an analogy for any weapon here.

HoHo
Member #4,534
April 2004
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America is not world.

You know that around half the Europe was under USSR power for half a century? They had guns also. Also we didn't need guns to get free from their control ;)

__________
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is - Jan L.A. van de Snepscheut
MMORPG's...Many Men Online Role Playing Girls - Radagar
"Is Java REALLY slower? Does STL really bloat your exes? Find out with your friendly host, HoHo, and his benchmarking machine!" - Jakub Wasilewski

Neil Black
Member #7,867
October 2006
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Because they suffered economic collapse, because they had to build so many guns (and other weapons) to keep the stalemate against America. Do you really think that if America hadn't been the superpower that it was, the Soviet Union would have collapsed so soon?

No, America isn't the world. But at that time there was the U.S.A, and the U.S.S.R. No one else was strong enough to compete.

HoHo
Member #4,534
April 2004
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Still two facts remain:
1) weapons didn't help us keep our freedom
2) weapons didn't help us getting it back

__________
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is - Jan L.A. van de Snepscheut
MMORPG's...Many Men Online Role Playing Girls - Radagar
"Is Java REALLY slower? Does STL really bloat your exes? Find out with your friendly host, HoHo, and his benchmarking machine!" - Jakub Wasilewski

Rampage
Member #3,035
December 2002
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I was to China last year. Holy cultural shock, Batman! I would never leave my country, but I'd still like to return someday, I loved Chinese food.

Oh, and Mexico > USA. 8-)

-R

HardTranceFan
Member #7,317
June 2006
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Quote:

Oh, and Mexico > USA. 8-)

Troll? :P

Actually, any suggestions on South American countries to visit? Would basic Spanish be acceptable there?

--
"Shame your mind don't shine like your possessions do" - Faithless (I want more part 1)

Samuli
Member #1,837
January 2001

One thing I never quite understand is that if people in the US should be allowed to have guns to prevent government oppression, then why is GWB still in control?

Seriously though, that's exactly what these guys did and they are considered terrorists. Should they not be true patriots?!

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Guns will always be dangerous, that's their purpose. But the world is full of danger, and there are times when violence can only be answered with violence. Talking things out, trying to reason or giving in to demands are good things to try, but you have to be ready if they fail. Guns stopped Hitler. Guns made America free. Guns stopped communism from taking over the world. Guns can do good.

This is not what we're discussing. Nobody ever said we should throw every single firearm away. I don't see how those personal AK-47 hunting rifles ever stopped communism. I'd say nuclear weapons did it.

Rampage
Member #3,035
December 2002
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Quote:

Actually, any suggestions on South American countries to visit? Would basic Spanish be acceptable there?

Come to Mexico, it's great! Amarillion has come before, you can ask him if you don't believe me. ;)

-R

Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
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Quote:

Come to Mexico, it's great! Amarillion has come before, you can ask him if you don't believe me. ;)

All the illegal immigrants I've talked to say otherwise. :-/

Rampage
Member #3,035
December 2002
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Quote:

All the illegal immigrants I've talked to say otherwise. :-/

Oh, they love their country; but they get paid better in the USA. And that's only because their American bosses don't want them to leave. :D

-R

relpatseht
Member #5,034
September 2004
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Quote:

Seriously though, that's exactly what these guys [en.wikipedia.org] did and they are considered terrorists. Should they not be true patriots?!

The victors write history, the conquered are supplicated.

It is arguable that the U.S. did, in fact, prevent the Soviet Union from taking over much of the world. They certainly did aid Greece and Turkey who were fighting to prevent communist overthrow of their government, and most certainly did not provide any assistance to Hungarian freedom fighters who were trying to overthrown their communist government, but this is besides the point. Considering the policy of containment the U.S. held toward communism, the policy of massive retaliation (the use of nuclear force as a first offense) against the U.S.S.R, and the enormous fear of communism present in the U.S. at the time, one could make the argument that the U.S. had the U.S.S.R. believing (and most likely rightfully so) that if they did attempt to conquer more of the world, the U.S. would attack them with nuclear arms. One could, but I wouldn't.

As far as the whole gun control argument goes: I have never had a gun used against me, and if one was, I would have to say that a gun would be a preferable method of death over a knife, therefore, I have no opinion.

To me, it seems the problem is not the tools we have given the people, but the society the people are in. America simply has a moderately more violent society. This does not mean that you are more likely to face any violence, but rather that the people expect it.

Rampage: We have dirt in the U.S. too.

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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Samuli said:

One thing I never quite understand is that if people in the US should be allowed to have guns to prevent government oppression, then why is GWB still in control?

Seriously though, that's exactly what these guys [en.wikipedia.org] did and they are considered terrorists. Should they not be true patriots?!

The current president of the United States has been doing his duty as the president of the United States. Disagreeing with that doesn't make it right to oppose the government. The government has a lot more information than the general public does, and the majority of anti-Bush activists are probably anti-war activists, which proves that they don't know how the world works.

If a group did decide to oppose the government, the very suggestion of allowing them guns to do so suggests that it wouldn't be a surrender. I can't say for sure, but to say that the President has absolute power is absurd. It's not a dictatorship. The President represents the people. He is fed information by many people beneath him who are fed information beneath them. The process is long and the final decision is a collective decision. And if the people can justify opposition you can expect that either that soldier won't pull the trigger or the people will fight it (along with other politicians that want the seat).

When you vote in the President in he doesn't command America like that of some Asian (or European?) dictatorship countries.

relpatseht said:

America simply has a moderately more violent society. This does not mean that you are more likely to face any violence, but rather that the people expect it.

I think it's misleading to say that America has moderately more violent people. America is attractive to criminals because the resources exist to take advantage of. You take the good with the bad, I guess. When American fugitives are on the run they often run to Canada or more often Mexico. I'd say that Mexico is quite likely a lot more dangerous place to be than America.

Although America, like any well developed nation, has some rougher neighborhoods and cities, it also has many peaceful communities that very rarely see homicides. Keep in mind that America (or Canada) is about the size of two or three Europes (estimated). So when considering America as a whole you have to compare to two or three Europes (or maybe Europe and the Middle East collectively ::)) for a closer comparison.

According to an article I found in 2004, Glasglow, Scotland had a higher murder rate than fucking New York, NY!! :o

relpatseht
Member #5,034
September 2004
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You really shouldn't assume something when there is a much better alternative just as readily available. I speak, of course, of clicking the view profile button, which would tell you that I am from the United States.

Had you actually read my post, or even just the section you quoted, rather than make some assumption and post the same thing you have already stated a number of times now, you would know that I explicitly stated that I did not mean you were more likely to face violence in America than anywhere else in the world -- whether or not that is true, I do not know -- but rather that I meant the people here are more expectant of violence, that they jump to the conclusion they are in danger far more readily than many places elsewhere. I'll let you draw what that correlates to, should you choose to read and believe it -- I have at least that much faith left in you.

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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relpatseht said:

America simply has a moderately more violent society.

This I believe to be inaccurate.

relpatseht said:

I speak, of course, of clicking the view profile button, which would tell you that I am from the United States.

I viewed your profile and knew you were from America... :-/ Your post also is highly suggestive that you are from America... Chill. I apologize if it was unclear which statements were directed to you versus the world.

I happen to live on the American border. It's not like I'm across the fucking world. I didn't really disagree with what you said, but thought that at least that one line was misleading.

::)

HardTranceFan
Member #7,317
June 2006
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Quote:

The government has a lot more information than the general public does

Area 51, I'm telling ya.

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Keep in mind that America (or Canada) is about the size of two or three Europes (estimated).

How so? Not by size or by population.

Area    | Land Size        |  Population
--------+------------------+-----------------------
USA     |  9,631,420 sq km | 301,541,000 (2007 est)
Canada  |  9,984,670 sq km |  32,885,100 (2007 est)
Europe  | 10,180,000 sq km | 710,000,000 (approx)

Quote:

relpatseht said:

America simply has a moderately more violent society.

This I believe to be inaccurate.

This disagrees with you. Most Western countries are way behind the USA (25% or less of the US murder rate).

--
"Shame your mind don't shine like your possessions do" - Faithless (I want more part 1)

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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HardTranceFan said:

How so? Not by size or by population.

Apparently my estimation was way off... Also I could swear the borders of Europe have changed since high school... :-/ Anyway, you can still compare America to one Europe.

HardTranceFan said:

This disagrees with you [nationmaster.com]. Most Western countries are way behind the USA (25% or less of the US murder rate).

Most Western Countries being what? Most western countries don't compare to America in size, economy, population, or anything else... There are far more variables you have to consider to get a valid comparison.

Again, I live on the border of the USA. I would say that much of Michigan is safe. There are some neighborhoods some might avoid, especially in Detroit, but that is expected of a major city. I have family that moved outside of Detroit and they have never had any problems with crime.

Contrary to popular belief, many Americans do not own guns and many (perhaps even the majority?) go through their lives with no problems.

HardTranceFan
Member #7,317
June 2006
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Quote:

Also I could swear the borders of Europe have changed since high school...

First Europe. Then ... THE WORLD! Nya ha ha.

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Most Western Countries being what? Most western countries don't compare to America in size, economy, population, or anything else... There are far more variables you have to consider to get a valid comparison.

The stats are per 1,000 population. Size, economy, population or anything else don't play a role and are irrelevant. The comparisons are very valid.

--
"Shame your mind don't shine like your possessions do" - Faithless (I want more part 1)

miran
Member #2,407
June 2002

Quote:

Also I could swear the borders of Europe have changed since high school...

The borders of Europe change almost every year...

--
sig used to be here

HoHo
Member #4,534
April 2004
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Quote:

Also I could swear the borders of Europe have changed since high school...

When did you go to highschool? Latest major changes took place in around 1990-1992. After that there have been only minor changes, unless you consider EU as Europe.

__________
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is - Jan L.A. van de Snepscheut
MMORPG's...Many Men Online Role Playing Girls - Radagar
"Is Java REALLY slower? Does STL really bloat your exes? Find out with your friendly host, HoHo, and his benchmarking machine!" - Jakub Wasilewski

Neil Black
Member #7,867
October 2006
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Only one person I know has ever been shot at. My friend Roman, who was sneaking out of a girl's window when her mother walked in with a shotgun. She missed.

Samuel Henderson
Member #3,757
August 2003
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Quote:

Also I could swear the borders of Europe have changed since high school...

They must have taught crazy geography at your highschool then.

All I remember about European borders from high school was a comparisson of what Europe looked like during the cold war as well as what it looked like at the time (around 2002). I have to say that I personally do not see any major changes since then.

=================================================
Paul whoknows: Why is this thread still open?
Onewing: Because it is a pthread: a thread for me to pee on.

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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Possumdude0 said:

Only one person I know has ever been shot at. My friend Roman, who was sneaking out of a girl's window when her mother walked in with a shotgun. She missed.

Haha! ;D

Cousins of mine have had guns pulled on them in Canada. As I mentioned earlier, a strapped and loaded drug pusher (not a dealer, a pusher) was living in the same house as my ex-friend. That house happened to be right beside our college as well. And the Hell's Angels came after him there, apparently.

There's really no way to prevent it in this day and age. Perhaps when the world becomes more Half-Life 2 ish. ;)

You can definitely avoid it most of the time. Shootings like this are rare. And the students were safe. Only 32 of 20000 were killed. It's heart breaking for the victim's families, but people die everyday. :-/

Samuel Henderson said:

They must have taught crazy geography at your highschool then.

I didn't (don't) really care about geography so I probably didn't pay too much attention. In fact, grade 9 geography was my last geography class and I didn't do much in that class. Geography isn't one of my subjects. Besides, it's Europe! ;D

HoHo
Member #4,534
April 2004
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Quote:

I didn't (don't) really care about geography so I probably didn't pay too much attention

Here is a little reminder for you :)
{"name":"world-usa2003.gif","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/1\/8\/1824afbfd5166cee2aa2ece10063911d.gif","w":640,"h":512,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/1\/8\/1824afbfd5166cee2aa2ece10063911d"}world-usa2003.gif

__________
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is - Jan L.A. van de Snepscheut
MMORPG's...Many Men Online Role Playing Girls - Radagar
"Is Java REALLY slower? Does STL really bloat your exes? Find out with your friendly host, HoHo, and his benchmarking machine!" - Jakub Wasilewski

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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HardTranceFan said:

How so? Not by size or by population.

Oh, maybe I see now. ;D A couple of sources said that a portion of Russia is sometimes considered part of Europe because they share political and social ties with Europe, however, the country is still considered Asian. It really all depends on how you look at it, but I personally would call all of Russia Asian, geographically speaking.

The European sect of Russia is apparently 3,960,000 sq. Km. so if you subtract from the previous area given of 10,180,000 sq. Km. you are left with only 6,220,000 sq. Km. Russia is not Europe! ;D

Apparently the Russia portion of Europe has a population of 106,037,143. So I would say that Europe's actual population is closer to 603,962,857. ::)

ALRIGHT, WAIT A FUCKING MINUTE! Even those figures are off!! A number of Asian countries are considered "Europe" by Europeans! When I get home I'll subtract all of those as well and give the RIGHT numbers. ;D

I knew that didn't compute. ;)

Richard Phipps
Member #1,632
November 2001
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