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Any interest in a 'ray casting' competition?
Krzysztof Kluczek
Member #4,191
January 2004
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I think I'll enter. :)

btw. Are teams allowed? I guess it would be wise if actually someone else did gameplay for my entry. ;D

Erkle
Member #3,493
May 2003
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I'd enter as well.

If the writing above has offended you, you've read it wrong.....fool.
And if you read that wrong it means 'All of the above is opinion and is only to be treated as such.'

Carrus85
Member #2,633
August 2002
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I think I would be willing to give it a go...

Billybob
Member #3,136
January 2003

Did I win yet? I'm pretty sure I get a bonus for the quickest submission.

nonnus29
Member #2,606
August 2002
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No, you didn't win and in fact you've been disqualified from this and all future raycasting orieted competitions.

:P

aybabtu
Member #2,891
November 2002

So, we gonna get this started, then? I'm in...but don't expect things to move around my map too much...geez...I gotta learn pathfinding! Ugh.

Billybob
Member #3,136
January 2003

Aybabtu: If you don't know how to do something don't do it, especially in a combo. Work around the problem. That's how you get cool, original games.

aybabtu
Member #2,891
November 2002

Yeah, if I can't figure it out (which I really should anyway)...I'll have to come up with some crazy new way to use a raycasting engine. Who knows...
We'll see what happens!

Trezker
Member #1,739
December 2001
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aybabtu, try to learn this before the compo.
I really shouldn't take long. I thought it was pretty easy.

Thomas Harte
Member #33
April 2000
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Well, a second attempt at this post because apparently allegro.cc didn't warrant my first suitable for posting or myself suitable for remaining logged on over the time it took me to write it. Draw your own conclusions!

Competition will run. It will mostly be organised through these forums. It will begin as soon as an art pack is complete along with example scaling routines. I will take emails by private message if anybody wants direct notification when the thing starts.

Teams are allowed, but code must be overwhelmingly produced by a team member. Definition of ray casting settled upon is:

"the overwhelming portion of the display is calculated conclusively and in predictable and sequential fashion by uniform rays cast into the displayed world"

There is a further requirement in the competition that entries include the specified plot elements or devices. Advance warning is given that an indoor setting will be necessary to fulfil this requirement (although outdoor segments may optionally be included at the discretion of the entrant).

If I feel that an entry doesn't meet the criteria then I will indicate as much when it goes for juding by the other entrants. They are invited to award zero points to the entry if they agree.

I will now proceed to edit this post and highlight the intended meaning of all parts of my ray casting definition.

EDIT1: "the overwhelming portion of the display"
This means the section of the screen in which the user is particularly interested, taken as an overview of the entry as a whole.

So, for something like Wolfenstein the walls are the overwhelming portion of the display as they are the things around which players navigate. That a display can be found which is overwhelmingly filled by the floor and ceiling doesn't matter, and neither is it significant that a view could occur where no walls were visible due to an abundance of enemies and potted plants.

EDIT2: "is calculated conclusively"
i.e. the portion of the ray casted section of the display for which ray casting occurred is determined entirely by that casting. So that's that cleared up then!

What this really means is that the casting has to determine not just how a particular wall would look in a particular portion but whether it is actually visible there or not. A conclusive answer as to the occupancy of a portion of the display must be reached by casting alone.

EDIT3: "in predictable and sequential fashion"
Rays cast must be a function of the portion of the display that needs to be filled and must not be done with a preknowledge of the geometry that will be struck where any options arise.

This is not to be taken as outlawing Mode 7 style floors in Wolfenstein style engines, or anything analogous to them.

EDIT4: "by uniform rays"
The shape of the rays must be uniform, length excluded. Their quantity, direction, etc, need not be.

This clause prevents pedantic argument about true polygon portal renderers and the meaning of a "ray".

EDIT5: "cast into the displayed world"
Again, one to catch any pedants who might turn up. Probably doesn't mean anything that isn't in the other clauses.

nonnus29
Member #2,606
August 2002
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Quote:

There is a further requirement in the competition that entries include the specified plot elements or devices.

I strongly object to this. I feel that this contest should be freeform; any game, any style, so long as it uses raycasting.

Thomas Harte
Member #33
April 2000
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Quote:

I strongly object to this. I feel that this contest should be freeform; any game, any style, so long as it uses raycasting.

Okay. In that case some other limitation may be necessary or we'll potentially be arguing about voxel heightfields and having people enter Commanche style games. I guess that'd be the smarter move though - for example, constraining plot would act to restrain art in what is meant to be a competition deliminated by technology in use.

Would a restriction that entries have to be at least partly set indoors be acceptable?

Fladimir da Gorf
Member #1,565
October 2001
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Quote:

Would a restriction that entries have to be at least partly set indoors be acceptable?

Suits for me and it gives some consistency to all entries. That still doesn't exclude heightmap based solutions as you can have buildings that can be entered. You can also aim for some extra consistency by introducing a minor thing to be included in all or the entries, like in TINS or other competitions. At least as long as it doesn't limit the actual game idea possibilities.

I'm quite sure about what kind of a game I'm going to make. I don't know if I have time to implement it all, though :-/

OpenLayer has reached a random SVN version number ;) | Online manual | Installation video!| MSVC projects now possible with cmake | Now alvailable as a Dev-C++ Devpack! (Thanks to Kotori)

HoHo
Member #4,534
April 2004
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Quote:

Would a restriction that entries have to be at least partly set indoors be acceptable?

Fine by me I guess.

Does indoors mean that there has to be walls, floor and celing? Does isomoetric-like things work too?

__________
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is - Jan L.A. van de Snepscheut
MMORPG's...Many Men Online Role Playing Girls - Radagar
"Is Java REALLY slower? Does STL really bloat your exes? Find out with your friendly host, HoHo, and his benchmarking machine!" - Jakub Wasilewski

Thomas Harte
Member #33
April 2000
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My gut reaction is that 'indoors' means an enclosed region of doors, walls and ceilings although the engine doesn't have to present things in a first person perspective if it doesn't want to. I may revise this.

Darth Code
Member #5,728
April 2005

I'll join, I have no idea how to write it though... It will be fun. Is it ok to have help on the forum?

HoHo
Member #4,534
April 2004
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Well, my gut reaction says that "indoors" means I'm on the inner side of a door. Probably this door is part of a wall that surrounds some space and I'm inside the space. Nothing about a celings or floors ;)

It's hard to define something so precisely

__________
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is - Jan L.A. van de Snepscheut
MMORPG's...Many Men Online Role Playing Girls - Radagar
"Is Java REALLY slower? Does STL really bloat your exes? Find out with your friendly host, HoHo, and his benchmarking machine!" - Jakub Wasilewski

Thomas Harte
Member #33
April 2000
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Quote:

Is it ok to have help on the forum?

Oh, yeah, definitely. That makes, by my approximate count, 9 entrants (including myself).

Quote:

It's hard to define something so precisely

Oh, I know. I'm just trying to think of something that is sufficiently closed for Wolfenstein/Duke 3d style to be the main thrust of entrants. Perhaps I should just leave it with what I already have?

Fladimir da Gorf
Member #1,565
October 2001
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Quote:

My gut reaction is that 'indoors' means an enclosed region of doors, walls and ceilings although the engine doesn't have to present things in a first person perspective if it doesn't want to. I may revise this.

I'd say don't limit it too much. I don't think it hurts the contest if someone doesn't make a first person game (me).

OpenLayer has reached a random SVN version number ;) | Online manual | Installation video!| MSVC projects now possible with cmake | Now alvailable as a Dev-C++ Devpack! (Thanks to Kotori)

HoHo
Member #4,534
April 2004
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Quote:

I don't think it huts the contest if someone doesn't make a first person game (me).

And me.

Though I don't know exactly what am I going to do. I have some ideas but they need some thoroug investigations. All I hope is that there is enough time, at least until August or September because I have exams until half of June.

__________
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is - Jan L.A. van de Snepscheut
MMORPG's...Many Men Online Role Playing Girls - Radagar
"Is Java REALLY slower? Does STL really bloat your exes? Find out with your friendly host, HoHo, and his benchmarking machine!" - Jakub Wasilewski

Darth Code
Member #5,728
April 2005

How do I get information on the contest after it starts? I can only work on it after school, and work, so I need it to not entirely be based on time dependent forum threads... Is there going to be a website I should visit other than allegro.cc?

Thomas Harte
Member #33
April 2000
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I think we need a website. Does anybody have some space kicking around? My HTML is terrible, but I could do the honours if someone chucks me a username and password. Otherwise I suppose I could create it as a Yahoo! Group or something...

EDIT: I could PM Matt and beg for Allegro.cc hosting, but until we have enough art for the competition to formally begin it feels a little premature.

EDIT2: Pixelate wiki maybe?

Darth Code
Member #5,728
April 2005

I am setting up a webpage, if you can help me set one up from behind a switch, then you got it. 4 letter too...

Thomas Harte
Member #33
April 2000
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I have to admit that I know nothing about switches whatsoever. But I'll jump at the offer if you figure it out!

Darth Code
Member #5,728
April 2005

ok, I am currently working at it...



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