hi,

I've attached a screenshot of my WIP game. The way the game area is drawn as you will see is an attempt to have a bit of 3D-ness using just sprites. I want to change things so that the camera is above the play area and sides of the blocks are drawn properly in perspective. Also the sides of all the edge walls will be visible as oppose to just the wall at the top. I think I can do this without much trouble but then I'll need to draw the little man in perspective too otherwise he just won't look convincing. So what I'm wondering is - how dificult will this be. I've never used models before but I'd like to have a go. I'd like to know what the simplest way of approaching this is ?

Any suggestions ?

Will

http://allegro.cc/files/attachment/591208

BMP is not a web-appropriate format, dammit!

Explain.

It's not all that easy to explain but I'll try. At the moment the top of blocks are drawn and a little bit of the side facing 'southward' of each block is drawn if it's visible. If the viewpoint was moved to above the game area in the middle the blocks would need to be drawn differently - say a block was in the top-right corner - some of the righthand side would be visible and some of the southern side too.
Basically the blocks would be drawn properly in perspctive so the whole game area would look properly 3D. This would mean the character would look wrong if just using one sprite so if I changed the game to proper 3D I'd need to the character to be proper 3D too. I don't won't anything super-advanced - just a simple character but I've no idea where to begin.

The shadows ar already nice. If you want the game to look prettier, I think the only thing you need to do is make the sides of the blocks a consistent color with their top. It would greatly improve the sense of depth.

Add shading to the character, have him cast a shadow. Do those, then look at it. Looks pretty nice so far, though.

Make your character 3D, and use pre-rendered sprites.

I'd be willing to model it for you. I'll try rigging and animating it too, but I'm not very experienced with that.

Credentials:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/67641704@N00/381353283/
{"name":"381353283_df5d80f909_o.jpg","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/4\/e\/4e6c21a05a164bbdb5a65ed070bb9a33.gif","w":500,"h":375,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/4\/e\/4e6c21a05a164bbdb5a65ed070bb9a33"}

http://www.flickr.com/photos/67641704@N00/64991934/
{"name":"64991934_3660401739_o.jpg","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/c\/7\/c71de89deab17adf6c92133d67bbf0fb.jpg","w":852,"h":590,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/c\/7\/c71de89deab17adf6c92133d67bbf0fb"}

yup, that's a definite to do at the mo'. My plan was to have a different side for each type of shape but they'll look better if they're a consistent brightness.

Thanks. Nice to get a compliment. Shading on the character - I'll get to work. I haven't really spent a lot of time on the character graphics yet. I've got a lot more I'd like to do.

KibizOr

I'd except your offer with great pleasure. Your work suggests you've grafted at making graphics. Thing is though regarding my project is that at the moment it's not the 3D game I'd like it to be. I don't want to waste anyone's time. It might be better if make the request when I really need a model - ie the rest of the game is finished. Thanks for your offer - it's nice to know there's such generous people about. We'll see how it goes.
I'll get a demo released eventually - it'll be good to get some feedback. I don't want to go all out making it true 3D if it turns out that players find it boring

Thanks to all for the replies.

BTW - sorry about the .bmp - I'll know for next time.

[edit]

Also, sorry I can't reply more promptly. I have to come to a internet cafe plus a lot of allegro.cc members live in USA whereas I'm in England - we're up at different times.

You may want to have a look at Egoboo, it uses low-poly models, based on the rather-standard MD2 format. As it's GPL, you can probably borrow one of the models until you make your own.

Here's an animated screenshot of the editor Golem in action:
link

Thanks

Is there a library associated with the MD2 format ? Does it involve a lot of learning ?

Google shows several snippets to load the format.
When it's done you have a bunch of 3D triangles and quads, ready-to-send to OpenGL.

Was already dicussed here, can't help you further.

You can make him 3d by cutting him up in to parts. I working on a system for the same thing. after you cut in to parts such as head, legs, torso, and arms then you draw each part to the right layer at the right x and y so it dose looks like one sprite.

EDit: http://www.allegro.cc/files/depot/964/char_spite_editor2.zip

If you move the men to the top of the screen you will see the part disappear because only parts on the screen are drawn.

Piccolo, I don't think you quite got it. He was asking a slightly different question, I believe.

I'm what?

Anyway, you wouldn't have to go true 3d, I was thinking I would just render the frames and you could take care of it in code.

Also, I'm not really that great. I have a modelling and animation class, and I'd really just say I'm average. I'm just looking for more experience.

Kibiz0r : probably means "gifted at your craft"

I wasn't accusing you of being anything. It wasn't a you're, it was a you've as in you have. In english when someone's worked hard we say he's done some hard graft.
Don't know why exactly. So when I said you have grafted I meant you have done some hard graft - worked hard on your graphics.

[edit]

I appreciate your offer but I don't want to waste your time. I've got to decide whether I really want to make the changes to my game first. Thanks all the same.

Are you trying to do something like this?

{"name":"591232","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/5\/1\/5139733335f7428c05d195ced6a314fd.jpg","w":499,"h":481,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/5\/1\/5139733335f7428c05d195ced6a314fd"}

Which english? And why have I never heard it before ever, from canadians, americans or british folk?

graft
     n 1: (surgery) tissue or organ transplanted from a donor to a
          recipient; in some cases the patient can be both donor
          and recipient [syn: transplant]
     2: the practice of offering something (usually money) in order
        to gain an illicit advantage [syn: bribery]
     3: the act of grafting something onto something else [syn: grafting]
     v 1: cause to grow together parts from different plants; "graft
          the cherry tree branch onto the plum tree" [syn: engraft,
           ingraft]
     2: in surgery [syn: transplant]

Nope, never heard the expression either, and neither has any dictionary I can find. You're just making it up.

I can perhaps understand why someone for whom english isn't a second language might think so. But otherwise that's a bit crazy.
But tell me why would I do that ?

Graft - Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaIn American slang of the mid-1800s, graft was used to mean work. By the late 1800s, ... Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graft" ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graft - 15k - Cached - Similar pages
[ More results from en.wikipedia.org ]

Maybe you need to get out more.

Thanks Wilson
That's exactly wht I'm trying to do.

So it's 19th century slang? Why are you using it 200 years after it went out of style? And most of all, why are you surprised when no one understands what you mean?

Loads of people still use it today.

--

Because I didn't realise how ignorant some of you are.

Now I know why Jesus was crucified.

I'd say the fact that up to now, you're the only one who's heard of it indicates that no, lots of people do in fact not use it today, and you are the one using obscure lingo.

Edit: And I don't just mean in this thread. I mean ever. I have never in my life ever heard anyone use the word "graft" like that.

Um, So most of Canada, The States, and Britian is ignorant? It's just not used by ANYONE I've ever heard talking. ever.

http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-har1.htm

How often to do you come to britain ?

There, it survives in Britain and Australia.

I don't tell X - G how to speak Swedish. Why ? Because I know nothing about it.
If I was trying to learn it I wouldn't question what Swede's say. I'd listen.

"Survives" still does not mean "A lot of people use it". I restate what I've said - you're the only person ever I've heard use it, American, British or otherwise.

I challenge you to ask Richard Phipps if he's heard of it.

There's an australian using it. The internet didn't exist 200 yrs ago so it wasn't written then was it ?.

Google returns 1,300000 pages when I searched for "hard graft, hard work."

American English and English English aren't the same. I don't think you know many British people. Have you ever been to GB X-G?

Again with the irrelevancies! I can find over a million pages for a number of archaic words; that doesn't mean they're commonly used. And whether or not I've physically been to the Isles is completely irrelevant. Are you quite done with your stupidity yet?

Thanks for ruining my thread. I used the phrase to compliment someone and I got flamed. Do you know what the phrase Fuck Off means or am I making that up too ?

You get flamed because you insulted people for not knowing a particular very arcane and very area-specific word and then refusing to apologize even when it's pointed out how hideously rare this word is. You ruined your own thread.

That's hardly fair, don't you think?

Maybe he doesn't, but I do know a few. I've been to Britain a couple of times and I used to watch the BBC quite a bit back when I watched television and I read a lot of English books. I've never encountered the phrase before, though I can't say I didn't understand what you meant by it. If I remember I'll ask one of my British acquaintances about it when I see them again.

The Oxford dictionary lists it as a noun, not as a verb though.

As X-G said, you've certainly done a lot to ruin it for yourself. Now take a deep breath, sleep on it for a night and then give it a rest.

Getting back to topic:

I accomplished this effect by creating a Vanishing point in the center of the screen. I have world to screen function that make lower objects appear closer to the center. It looks some thing like this:

Point * WorldToScreen(Point * tgt){
  double Scailer = MAX_ALT/(tgt->z+1 );
  out->x = (tgt->x -center->x)*Scailer  + SCREEN_W/2;
  out->y = (tgt->y -center->y)*Scailer  + SCREEN_H/2;

  return out;
}

Please don't point out this code will not work, my scalier function is actually much more complex, and the entire thing is wrapped in a c++ class which handels the memory management.

Anyway the building class contains 8 points; Four are at the corners on the ground and four are at the roof's corners. Once they have all been processed by this function I Draw the walls between the ground points and the roof point. I use Draw primitive filled triangle for this. Trying to bind a texture to it is going to be more processing than you really want to do without a 3d card. Once the walls are drawn, scale the roof bitmap to fit the roof corners and draw it on top.

Thanks Wilson.

Your code obviously does work because your image is proof but I've never learnt C++ so I don't really understand it well.
I'll keep looking at it and see what I can do.

Okay, I apologise for insulting people. I didn't have to do that. Please accept my apology.

William, IMHO you have only a little to apologize. You gave a compliment, people got upset for a rare word (!) and your thread got very off topic very fast.

I've got some other thoughts about the argument, but I think it's better for the OP not to state them here. If anyone wants to go on about it, I suggest a new thread in the appropriate forum.

You appear to be the only one who wants to go on about it...

This thread was about to die. Good job reviving it in an ironic way, though.

True, but I found the whole argument so absurd I had to say something. I'd also find it rather odd if I was the only one.

Just let the thing die...

Why are people arguing over a compliment!?

** EDIT **

Step 1: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=graft

Step 2: Edit > Find on this page > "work" > Find Next

It took 10 seconds... I'd say the least you guys can do is apologize.

** END EDIT **

Some of you might not like what I say so I want to be clear at the top that I'm not trying to beef with anybody over this: I'm just standing up for William because from the looks of it he was the victim.

The Allegro community shouldn't be bashing people who speak differently; rather we should put the differences aside and stick to the community part and why we're here. Specifically, don't bash me because I said you were wrong. The thread wasn't about "graft" it was about (as I understand it) a 3D appearance from 2D graphics.

#include <context.h>
#include <sensibility.h>
#include <understanding.h>

/*
 *    Looks like all he did was imply that it might be confusing for
 *    somebody whose first language isn't English to understand; but
 *    those that speak it should be able to pick up on context.
 */

/*
 *    This is the first time I've heard of it and I understood it just
 *    fine - *context*.
 */

/*
 *    HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! (To those targetted, I'm not laughing at you;
 *    I'm laughing with you... Or without you, but you did ask for
 *    it)
 */

/*
 *    He never said Canada, America, or Britain was ignorant. He
 *    implied that the negative posters - those targetting him for
 *    no apparent reason - are ignorant. I'd have to agree.
 */

/*
 *    Again, CONTEXT! He was either bashing the art (which judging by
 *    the art that's highly unlikely) or he was complimenting it (much
 *    more likely).
 */

// Yeah, wtf guys?!

From what I see people starting taking shots at William so why should he apologize?

I gotta say from what I've read it seems like you were the major aggressor in this thread, X-G. He even tried to explain the meaning of what he said and you and others accused him of making it up.

Why are you trying to pick fights over a compliment!?

Next time you get stressed buy a Glock and "hit the pillow". Don't take it out on people coming to Allegro for help.

P.S. Apparently the forums do not like such large replies?

LET. THE. GODDAMN. THREAD. DIE!

Yeah, let the trolling thread lie ;-p