http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pi5KjWfDxBc
http://www.westfield.no/
what do you think of that. i'm going to build it for him.;D

Are you trying to make my humor go nuclear?

what do you mean?

Perpetual energy hasn't worked yet, but this seems like it may be possible (other perpetual energy machines I've seen don't use gravity like this one does).

Although that website is crap and that makes me skeptical of it's credibility. For example, most of the stuff is images, and the explanation page is broken.

there another guy on youtub that has working model of one that uses off set magnates

I don't think this attempt is particularly clever for all the "free energy" gimmicks out there. Until we can pull energy out of our ass, there won't be anything remotely close to "free energy". Even if we can start pulling energy out of our asses, it still came from somewhere. Conservation of energy, look it up.

Lisa, in this house we obey the laws of thermodynamics!

Sorry, perpetual motion (or energy) machines just aren't possible.

I'm curious how the balls on the right travel up without the expenditure of energy.

If you want free energy, get a wind turbine (and pump excess energy back into the national grid for a refund) or go solar.

Looks to me like the balls on the right use the back side of the belt that drives the arms. And think of all the friction that eats up much of the energy put into the system

i post a solution to fill balls with gas and submerge the right half.
its easy to life one ball
sorry bob i have to tell you your wrong.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1woSe6UB0c8

yeah Bob, school-boy knows more than you

[edit]
Wouldn't the outer magnets in the video require an electrical current to function? Otherwise the magnets on the wheel would just oscillate between 2 outer magnets.

Picollo, please post, 'cos your sentences do not make any sense.
[/edit]

(NOTE: YouTube undergoing maintenance right now, so I'll comment on the website link at the top.)

If you could make a perpetual motion machine, you could essentially turn that into enough electricity which could be used to power the world. Then, billions of dollars of research wouldn't have to go into new sources of energy.

As a result, the USA actually has a rule in their patent office that you cannot patent an actual perpetual motion machine without a working, proven model. (And look at the website... they've contacted a whole bunch of countries, but NOT the USA.)

So if anyone's truly made one, they would be extremely rich and famous and could afford better web authors and their papers would show that they have made contacts in the USA and not several other countries.

My thought on why this particular model wouldn't work is because in order to lift one ball up, you need the power of seven or eight. So when it comes time to lift another, well, all but one is sitting at the bottom!

--- Kris Asick (Gemini)
--- http://www.pixelships.com

There would need to be absolutely no friction, including any friction created by the generator....but that's what makes the generator, uhh.. generate.

As mentioned, if you want energy from virtually nothing, harness energy that is not being used and is always active. Wind power, solar power and hydro power are all forms of energy that have pre-existing fuel.

Once upon a time it was "It's true. I read it in a book," which became "It's true. I saw it on TV." Now it's "It's true. I saw it on YouTube."

there is probably a political reason the usa is not on the list of countries.

the out magnet are solid magnet the same found in any motor or generator.
edit:
there are a lot of things in the Usa they we don't know about until late. i just would out a few mounts ago the the usa had a cloaking device and thats old news when i found out. right now American main stream media is not geared towards technology.

what you have to see is in this model is not be made from nothing it is being converted from gravity.

Piccolo, the reason such a device cannot work is simple.

It takes as much energy to raise each ball as what each ball gains by dropping. So even if you had a frictionless system, the best it could do is break even. But since there is friction, some of the energy gained in dropping the balls is converted to heat, and so the system will actually lose energy, not magically gain "free" energy.

If that was the case then a seesaw would not work. What we have here is gravity is putting energy in to 8 balls while we lift 1 ball. Don't for get we are using a pulley which also reduces the amount of energy the is needed to raise the ball.

edit:
and if you want more help lifting the ball we can add another force to help called boyency. like what i posted above.

Pullies don't reduce the needed energy to lift anything. Otherwise, you could just use pullies as a "free energy" system. The minimum energy to lift anything is the potential energy gained by the lift (ie: the break-even point). Compensating for friction will add to your energy requirements.

I think you misunderstand how seesaws work...

Try using a see-saw without either person pushing off from the ground.

Every ball still needs to be returned to the top. This still takes up as much energy, no matter how you do it.

seesaw... the haver side dominate the lighting side. in this example the case is a seesaw with 8 balls on one side and one ball on the other.

And then you end up with the light side stuck up in the air for eternity.

Euuh yeah. That process isn't lossless (or gains energy). It will lose energy through heat, and thus will not work perpetually.

[quote ]And then you end up with the light side stuck up in the air for eternity.
</quote> edzackly my point. as long as the right side has more balls then the left there will always be energy to left the lift ball.

bob what your saying is that gravity less the the heat energy the is lost.
it sound like you completely undermining gravity

I don't even know what that means. Can you rephrase? Gravity is a force (from distortion of spacetime), whereas heat is energy. You can't subtract one from another.

bob what your saying is that energy that force gravity produces is less then that heat energy that is lost.
it sound like you completely undermining gravity

I think you mean underestimating, and no he isn't.

Correct. A portion of the energy produced will be in the form of kinetic energy (moving stuff around) by reducing potential energy. The rest will be turned into heat due to friction.

Not at all. Try dropping a heavy mass from a flying airplane. Even if you compensate for altitude reducing the gravitational force, the acceleration you'll get on your mass will always be slighly less than the acceleration from gravity, because of friction.

i c. when exams are over im going to build it and post it here working or not.

Not only do pullies not reduce the energy needed, they increase it. That's right. Pullies require you to put more energy into lifting; they just make the work easier, not less.

I have not been able to see this YouTube video yet, but based on the descriptions I gather from responses, it sounds impossible. First, with the magnets, I assume they are used to pull magnetic balls up some sort of incline, then drop them? Well, that wouldn't work, because the ball (at best) would travel towards the first magnet, and then stick when it was at the point on the include closest to the magnet. These sort of systems have been proven to not work. With the gravity/heat issue, I think you are misunderstanding what Bob is saying, piccolo. It is not that heat is a stronger force than gravity, just that it is a loss. Read Newton's Laws on energy conservation. Lets say there were 100 units of energy gained from dropping the ball...It would require X amount of energy to lift the balls again, plus you have loss from friction(heat) and other forces (and remember, gravity is fighting against you here now! -- it would take 100 units of energy to counteract gravity). The combined energy gained would be less than the net loss of energy, and hence, you are losing more energy than gaining. The Mythbusters built several machines that demonstrated this.

weird the down time seems to be only for that vid
bush saw it and though it will mess up his oil funds

edit this still work http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1woSe6UB0c8

and you can see the other on though web page link at the first post

Just buy a perpetual motion machine on EBay!

I imagine that the required AA batteries are charged..... yeah..

Too bad he forgot the part Sun has in evaporating the water and creating winds

[edit]
Also he forgot that accelerating things faster (moving one ball up at high speed) uses a lot more energy than accelerating them slower (moving balls down at slow speed).

I have a terrible toothake and it's not fun to do some math in this situation but a simple calculation can show that balances out.

Either piccolo is trolling or just has more eagerness than intelligence.

All forms of man-usable energy on this planet, and I do mean every single form except nuclear power, can be traced back to the sun. Even wind power. And fossil fuels. Everything except nuclear power.

Well, technically even nuclear power can be traced back to stars. After all, these elements were formed in stars by using their thermonuclear and gravitational power

Also that thermonuclear power is not endless. In the end, quite a lot, if not all of the mass will be converted to radiation. Converting radiation back to mass is not that simple.

and except these

Hydrothermal vents are nothing but vents that heat water by geothermal energy, and geothermal energy in turn is the result of heat generated during the formation of the planet. Which in turn wouldn't have happened without the sun's gravitation, so we can attribute that to the sun as well.

Though you are right there that it isn't energy collected from the sun, but the gravitational pull of the incoming matter converted to heat during earth's formation.

That perpetual motion machine won't work. It's a closed system and there is friction involved, so energy is constantly lost to friction until it comes to a stop.

i am very sup prized at the replys i got from every one. normally programmers would not respond this way. programmers work problems out and believe no problem is unsolvable.

Most programmers also know basic physics

And to think that the answer has been staring us in the face all this time!

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piccolo: Good luck. When you finish exams you can get the parts here

[edit]
This site has pictures of a working implementation.

Ahh... magnets. If you align them just right, you'll get free energy! Honest!
(For extra points, add some technobabble about "quantum effects" and "harmonies")

The latter has already been established.

I'm not intelligence i'm smart and clever. intelligence just means you have stored knowledge. smart people know how to use knowledge the get.

This is untrue. Some problems are proven to be unsolvable (such as perpertual motion machines). Thus, trying to solve them is a complete waste of time.

It's a shame that your knowlede doesn't include how to use a dictionary. If you did have this knowledge, you'd know what intelligence means.

Having "stored knowledge" is wisdom.

Ack. This thread makes me want to bash my head against a wall.
It reminds me of a thread on gamedev years ago with a guy who claimed he had created a compression routine which had an efficiency of over 130%! It was surprisingly long-winded for something so obviously wrong.

Piccolo, you need to read up on some (very) basic physics and thermodynamics (it's not as hard as it sounds) and then come back with your head hanging in shame.

You can get free electricity from slaves and animals.

Feeding them is such a chore. The best way to get free electricity is to steal your neighbours'.

piccolo: Conservation of energy is "a mathematical consequence of the shift symmetry of time; energy conservation is implied by the empirical fact that physical laws remain the same over time". Any system (i.e. more than one body interacting) that is moving loses energy every time the different bodies interact because every real-world object has at least some elasticity and here on earth there are further costs of air resistance, friction, etc.

Therefore, if it is possible to create a perpetual motion machine then maths as presently understood is wrong. That means you can't rely on any sort of scientific explanation (such as a comparison of the force of gravity to the weight of other objects) unless you can explain how you fix the error you've flagged up in the currently understood system of maths.

EDIT:

What, and then hold them to ransom?

Who's more foolish? The fool, or the people trying to teach the fool ...

Supposing it's the people trying to teach the fool then you really look foolish for that comment!

Fixed.

Shocking!

TANSTAAFL!

Ouch! Oooh, double-entendre.

You guys are trying to kill me with humor overload? There's just ... so many things wrong with this thread ... must not ... die from laughter.

It's people like you that people like piccolo and me charge for electricity.

There's enough insanity in this thread to power a 100 megaton bomb.

Or at least a relatively short bus.

Chuck Norris made a perpetual motion machine once, but then he found out that he could generate all the energy he wanted by himself.

[edit]

Threads don't generate energy by themselves, it's the magnetic charges in the hard drive where they're stored.

Personally, I hate Chuck Norris jokes that require Chuck Norris to be imperfect in order to work. Chuck Norris never made a perpetual motion machine, because he already knew he didn't need one!

My joke! My precious joke! You just ruined it!

Some things in this universe are just not possible. Like Chuck Norris jokes where Chuck Norris isn't perfect. Sorry, but the Law of Conservation of Chuck prevents it.

I have been enlightened, and I didn't like it.

Well, Chuck Norris can divide by zero, after all...

Consider the power (supplied by blood sugar) of a scientist writing a (correct) paper about the conservation of energy. Then consider the same for the guy who writes about the impossible junk on those pages. Where does that "energy" that's not writing something sensible go? If you answer heat, that applies to the scientist as well as the charlatan.

Damn! I just love that word, but I don't know why!!! am I the only one?
BTW very interesting and funny thread! science and humor together, bookmarked!

I always wondered if you could use the property of water and its surface tension to slightly lift it. ie with very small tubes then extract it from the tubes and drip it down over some kind of turbine.

Plants do it, except that at the top of the tubes the sun evaporates a small amount causing a difference in pressure which sucks it up.

If it would be doable what you'd really be doing would be using nuclear energy which would eventually run out. But that could still be useful, plain water as a fuel.

That's an interesting idea.

I'm sure there's something wrong with it though, because everything interesting is doomed to be inconceivable.

OT: Why is it that every time I see or hear the word "inconceivable" I think of a certain movie?

Could it be because my name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father — prepare to die?

No its because you wear a silly mask and fight enemies with slightly humorous catch phrases.

I just designed this. It will revolutionise electricity generation in our lifetime.

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WoW! It's amasing! OMC!

You took the existing perpetual motion machine, that was driven from gravity, and put it in space? Brilliant!

You solved the problem of lifting the ball back up, but now how will the balls get down. You've brought the problem back all over again!

I thought it was obvious. The rising force of the ball will pull the others down. Jees, get with the program.

The only problem I see with the design is that it looks like his power cable is leaking.

How about this: a tidal generator. When I was a kid I thought tidal forces were an example of free energy, but later I found out that the Moon's orbit is slowly decaying as a result.

But then I learned that galaxies are moving away from one another, and the rate of motion is accelerating. 'Dark energy' is pushing them apart, and it's overcoming the pull of gravity. But it was stressed to me that dark energy only exerts a significant influence on galactic scales. While there is dark energy pushing the Moon away from the Earth, it's too small to be measurable.

So what if I get a planet and moon, and transport them far away from any interfering matter. Now we increase the moon's distance from the planet until the forces of dark energy are exactly enough to offset the moon's orbital decay. Whatever tiny tidal forces that exist on the planet are... free energy?

So is there an official card for being a crank scientist that I am now eligible to carry?

Why don't we just make the moon go nuclear?

But seariously, it's important to realize that gravity is not a freebie one way deal; a ball pulls on the earth with exactly as much force as the earth pulls on the ball. Force= mass*acceleration. Since the ball is much less massive, it accelerates a whole helluva lot more than it accelerates the earth.

edit: "hell"'s okay here? I wanted an expletive spiral on "helluva".

i came up with a similar idea in one of the earlier post. what i'm going to do is keep the left side the same and. mod the balls and the right side.

i'm going make the iron balls with air nozels like what you find on a inner tube. then ill fill each ball with gas lighter than air. then on the left side i'm going to make this left side like the pic blow and fill with water. when the balls hit the left side they will be like a Submarine.
http://science.howstuffworks.com/submarine1.htm
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Congratulations, you've just invented the... perpetuum bong?

and pray, how will it work, professori picollo?

[edit]
gnolam : I'm dumb

Doesn't Nike have a patent on that thing?
[/edit]

do you understand now?

Oh, you've edited your original post.

No, I don't understand how your device works - I understand how a submarine works, but I don't see how will you get the balls to work without using any energy. In fact, I don't understand how your contraption works at all. Where do the balls go?

Are you making eyes at me, boy?

That was a bit of graphical wizardry to make sure any investors know that the cable is definetly a power cable.

BTW I am now accepting donations to make this fantastic dream a reality. The names of all donators will be engraved in the satelite casing for future generations to remember who the true pioneers were.

Can I have a go?

Five years from now Piccolo will be in the cover of TIME laughing at you guys.

If that's a bet, I'm willing to take it!

You realize I'm being sarcastic don't you?

Sarcasm can be conserved across posts.

Both of you have one-letter sigs, and making one-line posts. L0L.

Also, S comes after R, and the 'S' sig posted before the 'R' sig. What a coincidence! I'm dumb!

And we are both Latin-American too. What an amazing coincidence!

And you both watch TV!

Just so I can say I posted in a legendary thread ...

EDIT: Ow, burn ....

Any thread you haven't posted in is legendary.

This thread has got to be among the top 10 ever.

I'm not sure how much energy it would make, but as I read the post I came to the same conclusion as piccolo of having water on the right side that floats the balls back up. The only issue I see is now that the balls are back up top, how do you "push" them back over the edge to fall down again?

You would almost have to make sure the trip up is x high so that the balls are rising with so much force they "jump" out of the top and hit an angles piece to kick them to the left and fall again.

I guess keeping the water on the right side only would be an issue

I think if we just keep paying people to keep dropping heavy balls down we'll be fine. It gives more jobs and creates less pollution

And nobody gets anywere?

All the mass accreted by the Earth from the primordial cloud is in spite of the Sun, not because of it. Geothermal energy comes from the suns that exploded to produce the cloud our solar system condensed from.

Not if they're using transport powered by perpetual motions machines anyway...

I came to the same conclusion last night and had a dream that i put a spring on the bottom of the water filled tube to absorb the energy of the balls dropping into the water and redirect the energy upwards. i'm not to sure how a spring will perform under water. to get a picture in your head of this mod think of the right side of a pin ball table.

Surely water would dampen the energy released when the spring uncoils because it would lose more energy displacing water molecules. Plus is the ball going to fall through water with enough force to make the spring contract in the first place?

I say no! But I got an E in physics!

lot of the parts to make alot of things can be salvage from other things.
This is the cross section of one of the iron balls.If it looks like something out of a devices you know please post what device and where to obtain the device you posting about.

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the point of its design is to be heavy out of water but float in water

the way i know of making this type of object would be to make some kind of bronze or lead mold then welding the Valve in place.

Valube? Really?

I didn't know you could weld Valube...

Well, most of that stuff about primordial gas and exploding suns revolves around the uniformitarian(?) theory. However, the at the current rate the sun is decaying, 6.4 billion years ago it would have melted the earth, and Mercury would not exist.

I think the Allegro community should band together and buy Piccolo a drinking bird. Who's with me?

http://www.aahom.org/img/store/drinkBird40x40.jpg

Yeah! We each give our 2 cents!

Ooh, i want one!

I just built a working ... uhh... impulse drive! Yeah. Impulse drive. It has a lot of small wheels spinning and changing direction, and it gives a positive net force!
Im just waiting for NASA to contact me.

...and stick you in the crazy bucket?

Well, the Sun didn't start shining until 5.5 byo, and the Earth was molten until 4.5 byo, so it all makes sense.

And how did the first matter get there?

You see, when two universes really love each other...

What about this? It's even patented in the US!

Boats weigh up to hundreds of thousands of tons, yet they float. Compressing the air in the iron tank would make it more likely to sink, vacuum less likely.

Come on, don't be so dense. Air is lighter than water. More air in the same space is EVEN LIGHTER than water!

Are you calling me an airhead? I'll need a porcine valve stuck in my ear for refills since I'm not blond

BTW, how does the drinking bird work? And has anyone seen the machine below. I've seen it in Heureka science center in Tikkurila, Finland. It's been rotating there for years now. The visitors are supposed to figure out how it works. No one is supposed to believe it is a true Perpetuum Mobile. Not even Piccolo.

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My only idea is that it manages to suck thermal energy from the environment, i.e. cooling down and the energy difference goes to the rods and things that will enlargen and shrink periodically.

Drinking bird