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i'm dead.
Indeterminatus
Member #737
November 2000
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RmBeer2 said:

If I can't do something, it's because society and the system prevents me

Frankly, I don't understand how. Sure, there are bounds to accepted behaviour in any community (like, most groups do not accept murder and thus install institutions to prevent this), but I guess that's not what you mean.

How can we be of help? What exactly are you trying to jumpstart with 500 EUR? What options did you explore, and why did they not work out?

Feel free to PM me if you don't want to post all the gory details publically. I'm willing to pitch in/help out, but I too need something more substantial than "I need money but don't want to (can't?) take a job".

_______________________________
Indeterminatus. [Atomic Butcher]
si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses

GullRaDriel
Member #3,861
September 2003
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What a sad topic. It needs some peps.

Who are you to despise people working at i.e Mc Donald ? At least they try to earn money how they can.

Before being able to work in IT I had to do all kinds of totally unrelated (and sometimes dirty) jobs. That's called life experience, and it's a lifetime party.

Get your shit together, pull your fingers out of your ass, stop whining and complaining. No one is going to do it for you.

Wanna go, and die ? Well, it would be sad, and yet it would still be your own decision. Your own forfeit in the life party. I don't know how is your brain wired, but in mine it's not possible to give up. I can't die like a shit, I have to die like a fighiting shit.

And I don't care your age, your experience. Blame yourself for what is happening to you. Chacun traîne les chaînes qu'il se forge.

Put a bit of water in your wine, open your minds. Maybe working at a McDonald for a time isn't THAT bad, maybe you'll meet some nice people.
Maybe you should try to do something else, and keep coding as a hobby.

If you're not flexible, you're going to break.

"Code is like shit - it only smells if it is not yours"
Allegro Wiki, full of examples and articles !!

Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
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Erin Maus said:

I worked "QA" (i.e., cleaning/janitor) at a grocery store and then retail at an office supply store. And then I took a job in software development that greatly undervalued me (first an unpaid internship that turned into an $11/hr job as a software developer - I could have made more working at any random big-box retail chain in my area like Target or Wal-Mart) to get my leg in the door.

Yeah! My software developer job *with a broken back* I still only made $25,000 a year. It was practically criminally underpaid, I couldn't afford the meds I needed to fix me, and I wanted to die every night because for all the pain I still couldn't pay all my bills. ... But you know what? After three horrifically painful years, it got my wife and I to the point my wife could go back and finish her college. It took my psyche years to recover--I was dead inside. I had spend more than four years without the natural desire to singing or humming--I had no joy left... so when I started again it blew me away at the realization how bad it had gotten. Like a caged bird that no longer tweets. It blew my mind and scared me how I could relate to a woman I saw in a Rwandian Genocide documentary, she said "I have no more tears left." I couldn't understand how someone could literally run out of tears... until I experienced it. Your brain becomes so numb, so closed in to protect itself, it doesn't let itself feel anything anymore.

Now things are world apart. We still don't live great. But we live better by leaps and bounds and we appreciate every penny, every restaurant we have the privilege of spending time together at. We no longer worry whether we'll even be able to eat. I still have tons of health problems and can't even afford to fix most of them. But I'm still alive, and being alive is a chance.

If RmBeer2 applied at every job (every restaurant, every retail, anything) near where he is, how many would call him back within two days? A paycheck beats dying. Who cares how life "is supposed to be" because guess what, all those expectations were a lie. Life has no requirement of making sense or being fair. When the dice roll sometimes you get screwed. Sometimes you get screwed over and over--far more than most. But the dice keep rolling. And sometimes they'll come up golden.

Let go of "what I think I deserve", and focus on the long game of "this is a bad spot but where I'm going in life is more important in that." What really matters? That you eventually flourish and follow your dreams... or that in every individual situation of your life you get what's "fair". Heroes go through suffering. Period. It's what they accomplish that matters.

I don't have any money to give. But I can tell you for sure, my advice is worth thousands of times more than what you're asking for. You're not speaking to some 14 year old Redditor. You're talking to experience.

-----sig:
“Programs should be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute.” - Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs
"Political Correctness is fascism disguised as manners" --George Carlin

Edgar Reynaldo
Major Reynaldo
May 2007
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GullRaDriel
Member #3,861
September 2003
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My last post stands either way.

"Code is like shit - it only smells if it is not yours"
Allegro Wiki, full of examples and articles !!

piccolo
Member #3,163
January 2003
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mine stands as well. their is always some one in a worst position so find them and feel for them than then cheer yourself on and find a good solution.

so many programmers don't realize the power they have in Reality just use your sample programing knowledge on Reality

wow
-------------------------------
i am who you are not am i

RmBeer2
Member #16,660
April 2017
avatar

Really. How can they think like that? At first I thought that everyone thought they were leaders and that no one wanted to participate in any of my projects. But now I understand what everyone's problem is.

Nobody really gives a shit about anything other than working for others like a slave. And they cannot even consider the possibility that there is something different, as if all the others were equal to oneself.
Already a few times I have made it clear to them over and over what my limitations or problems are and they don't seem to understand.
All they do is say "Join us! Come! Everything here is good!".
And so and everything they do everything wrong. Idiots who take jobs paying as low as 24k a year, then complain that their job is exploiting them. That's your fault, not mine. You are to blame for accepting a low-paying job, making many accepted jobs low-paying, and making it the average low-paying job to coerce future low-paid workers.
Here in Argentina it is worse, all the jobs are 12 thousand per year and they don't even think that they are being exploited, they are all happy. All hot foreign companies that can find cheap labor in this country. They look like vultures gone mad for a bit of carrion.
They don't want to get out of there and force or advise others to do the same, they don't care if everything goes wrong and they end up suffering like a bitch, and they want to force others to suffer the same.

Well, I'm also going to give you some advice:

Quit all those stupid jobs that exploit you, and if you can get one above 80 thousand per year or find better opportunities.
If you can't do it, then suffer and die, or kill yourself if you don't want to experience the agony of bankruptcy, all those who committed suicide because of bankruptcy are heroes and deserve respect.
If in any case you are going to suffer until you agonize and die, it is better to do it the way you want and not the way others want, because 20 or 40 years from now, thrown in the trash with pure suffering and pain, there is not even a promise of retirement fulfilled. What do you do or did you do in your whole life? Pure asshole paper. And you think you're wise advising the same shit to others so that they can also be a victim.

My projects:

- An Online Games Server.
- Hosting services.
- Certificates (encryption) Online.
- Discount Card System.
- Database using the InnoDB engine. (Free software)

They are one of my many projects that were rejected by everyone for their own idiocy. Because they believe that the best option is to work, suffer and be tortured for others for a false sense of gain, without any valid reason for such action.
That stupid and absurd insatiable mania of wanting to be tortured and exploited. Not only for working for others in low paying jobs, but for steam, gog, itch.io, unity, discord, google, and other untouchable rotten shit, what a disgusting fetish. Ajjj!

================================================================================

En serio. Como pueden pensar asi? Al principio creia que todos se creian lideres y que nadie queria participar en ninguno de mis proyectos. Pero ahora ya entiendo cual es el problema de todos.

Realmente a nadie le importa una mierda todo lo demas que no sea para trabajar para otros como un esclavo. Y no pueden ni siquiera considerar la posibilidad de que exista algo diferente, como si todo los demas fueran iguales a uno mismo.
Ya unas cuantas veces les he dejado en claro una y otra vez sobre cuales son mis limitaciones o mis problemas y no parecen entender.
Todo lo que hacen es decir "Unetenos a nosotros! Ven! Todo aqui es bueeeeno!".
Y asi y todo lo hacen todo mal. Idiotas que aceptan trabajos de pago tan bajo como 24 mil por año, y luego se quejan de que su trabajo lo esta explotando. Eso es culpa de ustedes, no mio. Ustedes tienen la culpa de aceptar un trabajo mal pagado, hacer que muchos trabajos aceptados sean mal pagado, y volverlo el trabajo promedio mal pagado para obligar a futuros trabajadores mal pagados.
Aqui en Argentina es peor, todos los trabajos son 12 mil por año y ni siquiera piensan que estan siendo explotados, son todos felices. Todos empresas extranjeras calientes que pueden encontrar mano de obra barata en este pais. Parecen buitres enloquecidos por un poco de carroña.
No quieren salir de alli y obligan o aconsejan a otros a hacer lo mismo, no les importa si todo les va mal y terminan sufriendo como una perra, y quieren obligar a otros a que sufran lo mismo.

Pues yo tambien les voy a arrojar consejos:

Abandona todos esos estupidos trabajos que te explotan, y si es que puedes consiguete uno por encima de 80 mil por año o buscate oportunidades mejores.
Si no puedes lograrlo, entonces sufre y muerete, o suicidate si no quieres experimentar la agonia de una bancarrota, todos aquellos que se suicidaron por sufrir una bancarrota son unos heroes y merecen respeto.
Si de todas formas vas a sufrir hasta agonizar y morir, mejor hacerlo bajo la forma que tu quieres y no como los demas quieren, que de aca a 20 o 40 años arrojados a la basura con puro sufrimiento y dolor ni siquiera hay una promesa de jubilacion cumplida. Que haces o hiciste en toda tu vida? Puro papel de pelotudo. Y te crees sabio aconsejando la misma mierda a los demas para que tambien sea victima.

Mis proyectos:

- Un Servidor de Juegos Online.
- Servicios de Hosting.
- Certificados (encriptacion) Online.
- Sistema de Tarjetas de Descuento.
- Base de Datos usando el motor InnoDB. (Software libre)

Son unos de mis tantos proyectos que fueron rechazados por todos por su propia idiotez. Porque creen que la mejor opcion es trabajar, sufrir y ser torturado para otros por una falsa sensacion de ganancia, sin ninguna razon valida para tal accion.
Esa estupida y absurda mania insaciable de querer ser torturado y explotado. No solo por trabajar para otros en trabajos mal pagados, sino para steam, gog, itch.io, unity, discord, google, y demas mierda podrida intocable, que fetiche tan repugnante. Ajjj!

🌈🌈🌈 🌟 BlackRook WebSite (Only valid from my installer) 🌟 C/C++ 🌟 GNU/Linux 🌟 IceCream/Cornet 🌟 🌈🌈🌈

Rm Beer for Emperor 2021! Rm Beer for Ruinous Slave Drained 2022! Rm Beer for Traveler From The Future Warning Not To Enter In 2023! Rm Beer are building a travel machine for Go Back from 2023! Rm Beer in an apocalyptic world burning hordes of Zombies in 2024!

Polybios
Member #12,293
October 2010

I actually like my job. Will you now tell me I don't realize how exploited I am?

Due to current shortage of reasonably competent IT folks I can more or less work as I prefer. If they get on my nerves too much, I look for a new project and they know that so they generally remain nice. Not much like a slave really. Of course there are stressful times nonetheless, but that's the case with most jobs.

Everyone has their own favorite projects. Why should I contribute to yours if I could also dabble with my own?

Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
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Having a job is a blessing. Every day you get to come home and think "at least I worked hard and made money today."

Be unemployed, disabled, or retired for awhile. You'll find out that a man's self-esteem and testosterone are directly linked to being considered useful. And men who retire basically lose all their bone mass and drive from lack of testosterone. They basically die from lack of being useful. Countless men retire... and then get part-time jobs so they can feel needed again.

-----sig:
“Programs should be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute.” - Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs
"Political Correctness is fascism disguised as manners" --George Carlin

Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
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RmBeer2 said:

Here in Argentina it is worse, all the jobs are 12 thousand per year and they don't even think that they are being exploited, they are all happy. All hot foreign companies that can find cheap labor in this country.

My company happily spends 4x-5x that on high quality South American workers...

You'll find out that a man's self-esteem and testosterone are directly linked to being considered useful.

Anybody, man or woman, who did something daily for 40+ years and stopped cold-turkey will likely feel useless unless they have found something else to do... Homemakers (traditionally, women of course) I think suffer less from this because they are already accustomed to creating utility outside the forced constraints of a job.

I will retire as early as I can afford to, but not because I dislike my job, but only because I'd rather tinker around doing fun, useless things...

Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
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I will retire as early as I can afford to, but not because I dislike my job, but only because I'd rather tinker around doing fun, useless things...

You'll often find out that when you finally have "free time" to do things... you no longer want to do any of those things you thought you wished you had time to do. Because they involve OPTIONAL hard work and self-motivation. COVID shutdown gave plenty of people a glimpse of that. All a sudden people had time, and most people did nothing with it save for a few hours here and there trying a new hobby. Most people aren't self-motivated. That doesn't mean nobody is and that it can't work for you. But the facts and science clearly show the average person ends up like this.

Oh, and as for women. Grandmothers are beloved. Evolutionarily, they help take care of the grandbabies and give the parents time to recover. Grandfathers, are basically Muad'dib in Dune Messiah. The second you can no longer provide for your tribe, do the tribe a 'favor' and walk out into the desert and die to spare them the need to provide for you.

You can google dozens upon dozens of research articles on male testosterone and retirement. Or talk to any old dude working as a Wal-Mart greeter (before COVID probably removed the job) and ask them. My next door neighbor was a high-end engineer at a chemical company, he retired and did nothing. Three years later he was working at Wal-Mart. My Dad is retired... he has literally dozens of projects that need doing (including no HVAC at the house), and all the skills to do them. He won't do anything but sit around and watch TV. It turns out yelling at us and us needing him to help us fix our cars was the only thing that kept him moving in the first place.

The humane psyche is built around one thing. Suffering. And the energy and work expended to remove that suffering. Once you have no suffering, you have no reason to exist. You can watch TV, but why? Why pick one TV show over another? How do you pick anything over everything else, when you have no idea where you're going?

video

"Whats your vision of retirement?"
"Sitting on a beach drinking margaritas"
"That's not a retirement that's a vacation poster. Okay, so what.. you're gonna do that forever? Some fat drunk with sunburnt skin after 6 months? How long can do really do that?"

-----sig:
“Programs should be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute.” - Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs
"Political Correctness is fascism disguised as manners" --George Carlin

Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
avatar

I don't really agree with your pessimistic outlook in life. It probably stems from whatever raw deal you are working with. But I would say that many (if not most) people get satisfaction out of validation -- and you likely get that at a day job. Either by literal praise from your team or by a paycheck. Those types of people will lose motivation to do things when they stop getting validation.

But I've never been that way. I don't care what other people think about me or the things I do. I worked on software projects since I was about 8 years old and rarely did it for anybody other than myself and my own enjoyment. I could work six months on something and never care to show it to anybody. 8-)

Edgar Reynaldo
Major Reynaldo
May 2007
avatar

If you want to be Emperor you gotta crack a few nuts. Sure work sucks, but its better to have at least some money from employment. But you've got to look for the right jobs and go where they are. You need an english website that details your services, provides an example of it and sells your software system through secure communication protocols. I think you have a lot of great ideas, but start smaller. Sell your drawings / paintings / etc... in a touristy area. Make stuff. Sell it. Work a small shitty job just to get paid enough to move somewhere better. Don't think of work as some awful thing, think of it as an opportunity to find somewhere better. Why stay there if you're dying? Don't die. That sucks. Seriously, MOVE out OF your "*shithole"* country. Buy a plane ticket and get a work visa. Get your green card. Do whatever it takes to get OUT of THAT place.

RmBeer2 said:

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i'm dead.
RmBeer2
Member #16,660
April 2017
bc8f7b791e672c6c8bd5745ee7002d89357041e4.png

Posted on 03-26-2022 19:05 View Profile

I need money and it's not enough for me. I have no choice but to make a collection with the help of everyone via paypal on the web. Otherwise I won't last another week.

I'm not going to beg in the street or sell disposable handkerchiefs, or do any other mediocre job, much less prostitute myself.

As I know that no one is going to pay me, I anticipate saying goodbye to everyone. It was a pleasure to meet you, bye.

🌈🌈🌈 🌟 BlackRook WebSite 🌟 C/C++ 🌟 GNU/Linux 🌟 IceCream/Cornet 🌟 🌈🌈🌈

Rm Beer for Emperor 2021!

You should meet me on IRC

Be unemployed, disabled, or retired for awhile. You'll find out that a man's self-esteem and testosterone are directly linked to being considered useful. And men who retire basically lose all their bone mass and drive from lack of testosterone. They basically die from lack of being useful. Countless men retire... and then get part-time jobs so they can feel needed again.

Feeling useless leads to depression and loss of self worth. What is my purpose? Cannot Compute.

Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
avatar

I'm actually quite the optimist. I just plan around whatever biology gets in the way of my dreams. Not acknowledging human nature isn't optimism.

But I've never been that way.

You may be self-motivated. Hell, you made your own website, remember? That's great! But that doesn't mean most people are. Especially as they get older and they have less energy.

-----sig:
“Programs should be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute.” - Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs
"Political Correctness is fascism disguised as manners" --George Carlin

piccolo
Member #3,163
January 2003
avatar

@Chris Katko life is indeed somewhat about suffering however you humans are suffering with things that have no real reward for your suffering.
humans are should be decoding the understandings of Reality and the more you understand is related to how long you live also how wise and powerful you become as a life form.

this is what bring true enjoyment to life and will keep your attention for eternity

wow
-------------------------------
i am who you are not am i

Derezo
Member #1,666
April 2001
avatar

I have a friend like this who blames everyone else for his problems and doesn't think he should have to provide any value to receive value. Sits at home on government assistance, rarely leaves his house, smokes cheap cigarettes and weed all day, never does anything. Constantly asking me for money, but if I ask him to do something for me in exchange for it suddenly I'm a slave master or something.

You need to provide something to others. When I travel down to Colombia I'm amazed at how hard the less fortunate work to create value compared to North Americans. They will sell candies on the street, or perform at stop lights for tips, washing car windows, and lots of other simple forms of value. Once there was this homeless guy outside my AirBNB cutting up beer cans with a pocket knife and turning them into motorcycles and airplanes and stuff. I paid him 10k COP for one, it's pretty cool, has a little engine and everything. He was shocked (and thankful) I would pay so much for it but to me it has been far more valuable than that.

I enjoy my job very much, and I don't fully understand why people work the more difficult jobs for less money. Once I tried hard work for little pay. It was at a compost yard cutting open bags of organic waste (mostly leaves). I didn't go back for the second day, partially because I was too sore but also because I would rather be homeless than do that job for the amount of money it paid. Maybe if it was tripled. Other than that job, I've never really disliked my jobs to any large degree even when they didn't pay very well. Tech support, retail, call center. The call center sucked but after I changed my name to Gene Brighten I felt like an actor and suddenly my numbers started going up and I was making commission and having fun creating an alter ego.

Anyway, if you want something of value you need to provide something of value that's my advice. Forget this idea of "other people" and just worry about what you can do to make your own situation better.

"He who controls the stuffing controls the Universe"

Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
avatar

I'm sure it's much different in other countries, but in the USA if you are a good programmer but hate your job (underpaid, overworked, etc) or are unemployed, then you might just need a life coach to help improve your soft skills.

Prior to the explosion of remote work, I'd give people a pass who live in economically challenged regions and are unable to realistically move elsewhere. But now, "all" you have to do is apply to remote jobs. It's a lot of work that requires dedication and a good attitude. (But those are the same qualities that would make you good at your job...) And you have to be not afraid to apply to jobs that you don't qualify for because quite frankly 80% of requirements in terms of skills and experience on job listings are bogus.

I know someone here who has almost quadrupled her (previously vastly underpaid) salary by switching jobs three times in four years. She never stopped applying for jobs throughout that time because she knew she could do better. It's not a fun process and interviewing every three weeks only to get rejected is demotivating but I guarantee you there's a good remote tech job out there if you have the skills and proper attitude.

Dizzy Egg
Member #10,824
March 2009
avatar

I work at home now (programming) and am paid a reasonable salary, probably around the mid range for the scale of what an audio visual programmer can earn in the UK. And it does take discipline and motivation but as Matthew said those are required attributes anyway. It took me a long time to reach this position and I’ve had a lot of “crappy” jobs along the way, but I’ve always worked and I’ve always understood to enjoy myself and be able to afford the things I enjoy doing I’d have to work for it. There’s no shame at starting at the bottom because time flies and if you work hard people know it, and before long you’re comfortable, and then not long after that you’re more than comfortable, and I mean nowadays when you can perform multiple jobs remotely. But no one’s going to hand you that on a plate. So get applying!

----------------------------------------------------
Please check out my songs:
https://soundcloud.com/dont-rob-the-machina

Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
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I know someone here who has almost quadrupled her (previously vastly underpaid) salary by switching jobs three times in four years. She never stopped applying for jobs throughout that time because she knew she could do better. It's not a fun process and interviewing every three weeks only to get rejected is demotivating but I guarantee you there's a good remote tech job out there if you have the skills and proper attitude.

This 100%. This is how you get your career in modern times. Changing jobs every 6-12 months. If you have problems with it, get over those problems.

My wife changed jobs 6 months ago, got a raise. I convinced her to look again and within a week she got a callback and multiple interviews and may get a >$5 /hour raise for the same job. She may be going from "just enough to pay the bills" to an extra grand a month. Just because she bothered to apply. And, it turns out that particular job is VASTLY SHORT so they're hiring 5 different positions for that job title. This new company NEEDs her whereas her current company takes her for granted--and they're willing to pay for it.

Never climb the ladder of a company. One guy at her last job was going to leave for a new job his company all a sudden they were like "we'll give you double your current pay!" But before he was going to leave they wouldn't give him like a 5% raise. He was so pissed--because he spent years not getting this kind of money--he left the company anyway.

It's just like insurance companies. There is no advantage (other than being a moral human being) to giving good drivers discounts. They use discounts to attract *new* customers. They already HAVE you as a customer, why give you anything? If you want a good insurance rate, you have to apply to new insurance companies. Nobody is going to just give you a good deal. The same applies to most working companies. There's no benefit to them for giving you a huge raise even if you're worth it. It's in their best interest to make you think you're not worth your actual, free market, worth.

-----sig:
“Programs should be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute.” - Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs
"Political Correctness is fascism disguised as manners" --George Carlin

Derezo
Member #1,666
April 2001
avatar

I've only ever worked my current job as a programmer, for about 7 years. Before that I was working as a teacher and self employed and other non-programming jobs.

I began my current job in 2015, but the original local (Canadian) company was acquired by a start up from silicon valley. It was like a new job because I got a significant pay increase and started working on their projects. We basically sunset our platform. Then that company was acquired by another company, and came with a pay increase again, but I am still working on the same platform. The new company is pretty great with benefits and has been totally remote since Feb 2020, I don't have any desire to switch because I am satisfied with the pay, the work, and the people that I work with. My manager is now also my neighbour.

"He who controls the stuffing controls the Universe"

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