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Political Compass Update
amarillion
Member #940
January 2001
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Yes, I like this one better. Not in the least because it has a neutral option. Only downside is that it's a bit US-centric. For example, questions about guns are going to be a lot more controversial in the US than pretty much anywhere else.

It's silly to put everything down to a single left/right axis. The two-party system in the US pushes people to define themselves along this one axis, when there is a lot more variety of ideas out there.

edit: although I have no idea what "Libertarian socialism" is. I thought libertarians are against market regulations and any restriction on freedom?

RmBeer2
Member #16,660
April 2017
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Patriotic??? me??? HA!!!

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MiquelFire
Member #3,110
January 2003
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If anyone is of the opinion that there is no systemic racism in America, they're either blind, stupid, or racist too. ~Edgar Reynaldo

Edgar Reynaldo
Major Reynaldo
May 2007
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Bob
Free Market Evangelist
September 2000
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Agree that the questions can sometimes be ambiguous. E.g. "Quality education is a right of all people.", to which I agree with.

However, I fear the test scoring may choose to put me in the "equality" category instead of the "market" category: I think anyone should be able to obtain any level of quality education they can convince someone else to provide; in that respect, it's their right.

I don't take it to mean that a coercive arrangement should be made, either by forcing educators to provide education by force, or by taking resources from others to give to the educators, etc.

Similar concerns with the other questions.

Anyway, here are my results, because why not.

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--
- Bob
[ -- All my signature links are 404 -- ]

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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torhu said:

Far-Left libertarians: people that think that Robin Hood is a scaleable scenario ::)

Conservatives: people that think when a corporation is granted tax relief that it'll trickle down to savings for poor people. :P

Bob said:

Anyway, here are my results, because why not.

I'm disappointed in you. >:(

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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bamccaig said:

Conservatives: people that think when a corporation is granted tax relief that it'll trickle down to savings for poor people.

Why not? If they reduce the cost of production, the invisible hand of Adam Smith kicks in and they cut the retail price to attract more buyers through competition. OTOH, fanboys of a particular brand <cough>Apple<cough> aren't nearly so susceptible to such a thing, but hard drives? yeah.

And Robin Hood wasn't stealing from the rich to give to the poor, he was taking back that which had been stolen from the poor. Today's situation is considerably more complicated, but ultimately the price of freedom (of any kind) is eternal vigilance.

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

Bob Keane
Member #7,342
June 2006

Why not? If they reduce the cost of production, the invisible hand of Adam Smith kicks in and they cut the retail price to attract more buyers through competition.

That would be deflation, and deflation is a bad thing. But don't worry, executive compensation rises to combat the problem. As for trickle down, it does not exist.

By reading this sig, I, the reader, agree to render my soul to Bob Keane. I, the reader, understand this is a legally binding contract and freely render my soul.
"Love thy neighbor as much as you love yourself means be nice to the people next door. Everyone else can go to hell. Missy Cooper.
The advantage to learning something on your own is that there is no one there to tell you something can't be done.

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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Bob Keane said:

That would be deflation

So since the original IBM PC with 16KB of RAM, a 4.77 Mhz 16 bit processor with an 8 bit bus and a single floppy drive, which cost $1600 ($4500 in 2020 dollars) compared to a $600 3Ghz 64 bit machine with a couple of terabytes of hard disk and 8 gigs of ram and performs several thousand times faster is a bad thing?

The (a designation I dare not mention here, but control the Federal Reserve among other things) puts such nonsense in your head.

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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Why not? If they reduce the cost of production, the invisible hand of Adam Smith kicks in and they cut the retail price to attract more buyers through competition.

Tax savings are a temporary measure. If every business slashed their prices to pass on the savings they'd be putting themselves into precarious waters if the tax cuts are lifted. Suddenly the price has to jump back up again, and the business needs to restructure again to compensate. And now you risk your customers being irate at the price increase. It's safer to reinvest the money elsewhere, and never affect the consumer. For example, if any equipment has been neglected now you have an easy way to replace it on the taxpayer's dime. Or if there's any mandatory training (e.g., anti-discrimination or safety or something else) that you have to give to your employees then you can pay for it that way. Or you can invest the money for a rainy day. Or reward yourself and your partners in crime with a big bonus.

Trickle down economics doesn't work. We know this. It has never worked. Instead, the corporations get even richer, and the people get even poorer. The gap between the classes grows. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

If you want to stimulate an economy you give the money to the people. If people don't have money they can't go spend it. If people do have money they will go spend it. Especially poor people. You stimulate the economy by giving money to the people that need to spend it, not the corporations whose role is providing products or services for money. If you just give them the money then they don't need the consumer at all. Goal accomplished.

And Robin Hood wasn't stealing from the rich to give to the poor, he was taking back that which had been stolen from the poor. Today's situation is considerably more complicated, but ultimately the price of freedom (of any kind) is eternal vigilance.

Any time somebody acquires significantly more wealth than his neighbors you can bet he's either exploiting the community or exploiting some community resource that he's claimed as his own.

Like Nestle drying up a fresh water supply, bottling it, and then charging the town stupid prices for bottled water. The difference between the "haves" and the "have nots" is mostly luck and corruption.

Unfortunately, America is in love with the idea that if you work hard you will succeed. You've been indoctrinated with that idea all of your life so that when you work hard and you don't get ahead you don't come to your senses and confront the system. Instead, you double down, and you work twice as hard just to scrape by, proud of how good of a citizen you are. It's very convenient for the people running the system when the system runs itself. No need to fix it when it's broken. The people aren't complaining.

amarillion
Member #940
January 2001
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Bob said:

Anyway, here are my results, because why not.

Well look at that Bob. We're pretty much the same on 3 out of 4 axes.

Bob Keane
Member #7,342
June 2006

The (a designation I dare not mention here, but control the Federal Reserve among other things) puts such nonsense in your head.

I see your confusion. I forgot to use the proper html tags. <sarcasm> </sarcasm> Better?

By reading this sig, I, the reader, agree to render my soul to Bob Keane. I, the reader, understand this is a legally binding contract and freely render my soul.
"Love thy neighbor as much as you love yourself means be nice to the people next door. Everyone else can go to hell. Missy Cooper.
The advantage to learning something on your own is that there is no one there to tell you something can't be done.

Neil Roy
Member #2,229
April 2002
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some of the questions I could have clicked agree and disagree on at the same time, depending on the situation. When it said the religious section should be a breeze for me, I started to laugh out loud...

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Polybios
Member #12,293
October 2010

There seems to be some common ground here in that the "authoritarian" part of the axis is not represented well, it seems to be capped at the center (0 / 50%).

amarillion
Member #940
January 2001
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Yes, I wonder what that means.

We're too politically homogeneous! Imagine all the interesting discussions we could be having if there were more authoritarians on allegro.cc!

RmBeer2
Member #16,660
April 2017
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HAI ALLEGRO!!! o/

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Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
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authoritarians on allegro.cc!

The hilarity is that left authoritarians don't realize they are. Do you think art and communications should be censored? Congrats, you're authoritarian. You believe there is one authority and it should control anyone who doesn't follow it.

The right-wing authoritarians wanted to ban books.

Now the left-wing authoritarians want to ban books.

"Dangerous ideas!" is the biggest lie anyone has ever sold the public.

They banned a physiologist book that has nothing to do with Islam and everything to do with personal responsibility... because... of islamic attacks.

https://nationalpost.com/news/world/jordan-petersons-popular-12-rules-book-banned-by-new-zealand-booksellers-because-of-christchurch-mosque-massacre

They want to ban the same guys second book after the publishers own staff "broke into tears". TEARS? Over a BOOK!? What's the title? "Kill everyone who is transgender"? ... " Beyond Order: 12 More Rules for Life" Oh... how terrible!

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8985983/Random-House-Canada-try-ban-Jordan-Petersons-new-book.html

Book banning is a bipartisan game

Anyone who thinks you have to control ideas means those people have power and are afraid that if people think too much, they might lose that power.

The reason we have gay marriage now is because the logic was on their side. ("who gives a crap it's none of your business.") But the second logic isn't on the left or rights side, they shut down discussion because they're terrified.

-----sig:
β€œPrograms should be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute.” - Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs
"Political Correctness is fascism disguised as manners" --George Carlin

LennyLen
Member #5,313
December 2004
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They banned a physiologist book that has nothing to do with Islam and everything to do with personal responsibility... because... of islamic attacks.

They want to ban the same guys second book after the publishers own staff "broke into tears". TEARS? Over a BOOK!? What's the title? "Kill everyone who is transgender"? ... " Beyond Order: 12 More Rules for Life" Oh... how terrible!

It should be noted that neither book is banned in either country and that it is a single company in each instance deciding to not sell it. Since both companies are mostly motivated by money, it's entirely possible that despite what reasons they give for not selling it, they're really just afraid of the financial implications of the backlash selling the book could cause.

Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
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The backlash is the problem.

A practicing clinical psychologist with a ph.d. having a book should not threaten anyone. The reason there's backlash is because his writing of scientifically backed truths represents a threat to establishment. It's no different than a bunch of Catholics being pissed that Kevin Smith's Dogma film might "brain wash" people out of believing in in God.

You don't have to have government censorship to have suppression of ideas. You can self-censor. Likewise, you can be racist on an individual level even if it's not systemic. Most black people don't hold "systemic power" to oppress others in the USA, but to say no black person has ever been racist on an individual level (e.g. toward Mexicans) is absurd. Further, a government is just an organization. Other organizations such as media companies will restrict, or punish their affiliates for publishing information they don't approve of. That's... corporate censorship.

So people can be a-holes. Companies and religions can be a-holes. Governments can be a-holes. If people were "encouraging" a company to ban books that were pro gay marriage, all a sudden liberals would care--and in the 90's that happened all the time.

This idea, that ideas are dangerous, is a gigantic fallacy. That somehow, you and I seeing an idea will somehow turn us into monsters. Racists will find material to support their racism. That doesn't mean reading Mein Kampf to understand Hitler's brain will turn you into a nazi. Nutjobs don't need any help in being nutjobs, and normal people don't need to be protected from ideas. We might as well ban all drugs because some people get addicted. And ban gays because some gay people will raise bad kids. Further, there's no evidence to even prove that stopping nutjobs from seeing nutjob-idea-ammunition will prevent them. The very act of suppressing things like "flat earthers" seems to turn them into martyrs and verify their idea that "the government is trying to control them."

The only time I'd be okay with suppression of "bad" ideas (bad according to whom? Those in power today.) is with imminent, immediate dangers. Like telling people vaccines cause autism or cancer. But it's a huge huge huge stretch to think that "bad memes got trump elected" or "bad words on the internet" turn good, moral, upstanding people into lone wolf killers.

Seeing communist manifestos from X-G every day did not turn me into a communist.

-----sig:
β€œPrograms should be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute.” - Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs
"Political Correctness is fascism disguised as manners" --George Carlin

LennyLen
Member #5,313
December 2004
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Backlash may be the problem, but it's not an issue of authoritarianism.

If anything I'd say it's the opposite. The general masses, who until recently had no real power, can now wield significant power with their cancel culture.

The problem is collective groupthink. Not a single authoritarian rule.

torhu
Member #2,727
September 2002
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LennyLen said:

The general masses, who until recently had no real power

Are you from China or something? ???

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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torhu
Member #2,727
September 2002
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bamccaig said:

What power do you think you have?

I can vote, I can parttake in public discourse, I can start an organization that works for some cause I think is worthwhile, etc. I can even become a corrupt, power-hungry politician if I really want to :p

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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  • Your vote is worthless. Disagree: try to vote for the best candidate, usually independent or tiny, and see how often they win.


  • Everybody can participate in public discourse so that's not powerful. It's only powerful if you manipulate enough people to back you.


  • An organization isn't implicitly powerful either. Power in our society is money. Only a successful organization will be powerful, and even then only in comparison to the other organizations around it (if you're lucky you might get local power, but no chance at the state and national levels).


  • Politicians are not powerful either. Only the party is powerful. The individuals are controlled by the party, and that's where the power comes from. Channeling many voices into one.

The same effect is true of cancel culture. Individually we are weak, but if you organize enough of us together to act as one we become very powerful. Only as a group though. An individual is always weak. It only takes a bullet to stop one. It's even easier than that though. You just need to kick them out of the group and they'll no longer have any power.

torhu
Member #2,727
September 2002
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Right. Maybe this seems more hopeless in the US, I'm Norwegian. A lot of bad politicians working for themselves and their networks here too, and the media is mostly occupied with propaganda and click bait. But I think that if an outsider candidate like Trump can win in the US, there is still hope for change through democratic means.

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