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Firefox 57, aka. Firefox Quantum
bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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raynebc
Member #11,908
May 2010

Before I got a replacement tab/session manager, I'd had pretty reliable luck using History>Restore previous session.

Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
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I've had pretty good luck. I go:

Windows -> Start -> Google Chrome -> Control-Shift-T

-----sig:
“Programs should be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute.” - Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs

OICW
Member #4,069
November 2003
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Well, happens to me from time to time that the session is somehow broken. I had to navigate to ~/.mozilla/firefox/<your-profile>/sessionstore-backups and moving either recovery or previous one level up and renaming it. However, correct me if I'm wrong, but it occurs to me that FF57 now uses a different mechanism as I can't seem to locate the session file anymore.

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Neil Roy
Member #2,229
April 2002
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50 tabs?!?!?! What in hell are you doing that you need 50+ tabs opened?! This would appear to me to be your problem.

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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It's a generational thing. You start reading a document and that links to 3 other documents. You may be interested in them so you open them up in a tab to peek at them. They're interesting, but they aren't important to read now. You leave them open to read later. Now repeat that process over the course of several months. The number of interesting links you encounter exceeds your reading capacity. It's a losing battle, but one you must fight.

Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
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I used to hit at least 180 tabs by the end of a work day. When I solve problems, each "window" is a distinct problem with tabs related to that problem. And when I google search, I immediately "control click" (open new tab) every applicable result on the first page of results. I then quickly scan and compare-and-contrast for the most useful pages.

I've got 32 GB of RAM. (Only cost $100 on sale.) But even with 8 GB-12 GB of RAM I rarely maxed it out. Nowadays, I run a Windows 10 VM for all my work stuff (to keep that MS crap like Outlook, SQL and Visual Studio from slowing down my desktop). It gets 4 cores, and 8 GB of RAM. I can also RDP into it on a separate IP so my wife can use my "normal" machine, while I remote in from whereever I am and access my work stuff.

The only problem? I upgraded to Windows 10 on my main machine. And what's Windows 10 love to do? RESTART YOUR FREAKING COMPUTER EVERY GODDAMN NIGHT. And what does that do? Terminate my work VM without asking, AND, shuts down Outlook on reboot. What's that mean? It means I DON'T GET MY FUCKING WORK E-MAIL NOTIFICATION SOUNDS until I manually restart my VM and Outlook.

And that's another thing. Outlook is supposed to be the workhorse of the business world. Why in the FUCK does Outlook not have a button to "start with Windows"? I kept looking and kept googling thinking "surely it's here and I missed it." No, all you have to do is learn how to use Windows Scheduled Tasks (another full API/tool full of complexity you don't need!) to schedule Outlook to start at user login. But make sure you have it fire on the RIGHT TRIGGER because many "sound" like the right trigger but apparently "on user login != on machine load" (obvious in retrospect) so Outlook will try to load but can't because your user "logged in" (half your shit is loaded) but not "fully logged in" so Outlook will fail. Oh, and it won't give you an error message either.

Scheduled Tasks is not hard for someone like us but HELLO their entire userbase is people who know nothing about computers. You think any of them are gonna be able to figure out Scheduled Tasks when all they need is a !@$!@$ DAMN "start with windows" button?

I mean damn it! Every. Other. Windows program will start WITHOUT EVEN ASKING YOU and take 90% of our CPU and disk. Windows Defender will literally restart itself after a few hours of being "turned off" without even telling you so much as an event notification. But the one product people would actually benefit from doesn't have that feature? Outlook 2016? More like Outlook 1988.

And I haven't even gotten onto the subject of Windows UNINSTALLING YOUR PROGRAMS without asking you (and resetting all your settings like Chrome as default browser), every time a "major update" comes (every 6 months). Windows uninstalled CoreTemp (temperature monitor + has windows gadget) and 8GadgetTool (adds windows gadgets back to Windows 8 and 10) an hour after I installed them because they "might" be incompatible with Windows 10. (They weren't.)

And I'm testing Windows 10 Enterprise. You know, the version all the fanboys claim you should use if you actually want "control" over your operating system. It's so damn offensive how they treat power users.

-----sig:
“Programs should be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute.” - Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs

raynebc
Member #11,908
May 2010

I can't think of any reason why you couldn't just add Outlook to your startup programs (the normal method of getting a program to launch automatically upon logon). This Q/A page even has users claiming this still works in Windows 10:
https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10-start-winpc/outlook-startup-in-win-10/e36b8483-c759-40a6-a9ca-cf88391c6bda?auth=1

Neil Roy
Member #2,229
April 2002
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You make me thankful I never installed Windows 10. :) I blocked it from being able to be installed. Still happy with Windows 7. It's MY computer and I will not tolerate any operating system treating it as anything else. Do shit without my permission and you will go bye bye!

As for pages, I just created a folder called "CURRENTLY READING" and I store shortcuts to pages I want to get back to in it.

As for Outlook... haven't used it for well over a decade now. Been using Thunderbird for a long time. But then, I only check my email about once a month. ;D

pkrcel
Member #14,001
February 2012

Windows historically gets a lot of unwarranted hatred (at least as much as the WARRANRTED one :D )...but Win10 it's M$ best OS by far

I've used several different machines and going back to 7 feels awful (while even 7 didn't shake completely the "good'ol XP days" reminiscence)....and I LOVED Win7.

Also:
- doesn't restart my PC(s) every night....didn't almost EVER restart the machines without interaction...those times I woke up in the morning with a warning.."hey I needed to restart due to MAJOR REASONS"...almost like my iPhone(s) ::)

- hasn't uninstalled any of the programs I installed on purpose

- didn't reactivate defender EVER, no to mention windows firewall

- Whenever Win10 Pro has domain policies, it's quite manageable (word of many IT managers I heard, I am so lucky I don't have an IT manager).

I'm feeling Chris just got hit by bad luck with his VM...I ran a couple Win10 VMs on Linux testbeds (old Zotac mini-PCs scavenged from some digital signage totems) and they allowed me a couple months of operation with no major problems...

GRANTED, I'm this close to definitely switch to Ubuntu Mate or Zorin 12 on my work laptop...both on the same Hardware just leave Win10 ages behind in performance...but saying Win10 is that bad feels plain wrong to me.

Chris, what feels 1988 to me is that you rely on desktop notification for emails...wouldn't it be for the keyboard, professionally speaking email is basically 99% mobile....I'm that kind of weird guy that gets warned of incoming mail by his phone, but uses mostly the PC to reply to incoming mail ;D;D;D

It is unlikely that Google shares your distaste for capitalism. - Derezo
If one had the eternity of time, one would do things later. - Johan Halmén

Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
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I have three windows 10 machines now. The desktop, the VM, and my work laptop. All of are affected in the ways I'm talking about.

-----sig:
“Programs should be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute.” - Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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I get like 50 emails a day from mailing lists and things of that nature. There's no way I'd want to be notified unless I filtered them first.

pkrcel
Member #14,001
February 2012

I have three windows 10 machines now. The desktop, the VM, and my work laptop. All of are affected in the ways I'm talking about.

Can't really relate, no MS fanboy here but my user experience with Win10 has been definitely on the other side of the UX spectrum.

bamccaig said:

I get like 50 emails a day from mailing lists and things of that nature. There's no way I'd want to be notified unless I filtered them first.

worded like that...sounds like a whatsapp problem.

It is unlikely that Google shares your distaste for capitalism. - Derezo
If one had the eternity of time, one would do things later. - Johan Halmén

Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
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I'm not saying that it happens to everyone. But it absolutely happens to me and I support Windows installations for clients for a living. I'm no idiot when it comes to diagnosing resource bottlenecks.

Like how Windows telemetry, compatibility, and defender, and search indexer take 100% of my laptop's 5800 RPM hard drive so it literally takes ~5 minutes to boot to desktop. On a "10 windows ready" work laptop.

Or how Windows Photo takes way longer to load photos than their old photo viewer program. (It's still on your computer, go ahead and test.)

Or how their DPI scaling support is still atrocious even for many Microsoft programs. Fonts corrupt. Dialogs shrink vital areas and don't let you resize them. I dare you to try setting DPI to 150% (which was default on my install for some insane reason) and load up various dialogs. Last time I checked even SQL Manager 2014/2016 became completely unusable. And that's a Microsoft product.

I'm actually building a list of positives and negatives. I'm no windows basher. I'll use whatever is great. But Linux is waaay greater in my experience. My tiny (chromebook) netbook with 2 GB of RAM and a Celeron processor is super snappy running the supposedly "bloated" Ubuntu Unity and actually loads the search bar with apps list faster than my 8 core AMD FX-8370. There's even verified tests where a Chrome developer is tracking down why his 24-core Windows machine freezes the mouse with 90% idle CPU usage (spoiler: Tons of single-threaded mutex locks in the Windows API) when he compiles Chrome.

https://randomascii.wordpress.com/2017/07/09/24-core-cpu-and-i-cant-move-my-mouse/

The biggest negative of all is simply that it treats you like an idiot and won't even trust you to override it. Shut of Windows Defender (if you have no other anti-virus) and it WILL turn itself back on within hours.

As for POSITIVES?
- Switching between duplicate and extend/one-screen mode using Win+P is WAY WAY FASTER. Explorer in win7 would be frozen for almost a minute while it recached or did whatever it needed to, to "Adapt", and the actual physical screen change is much faster.

- Drag windows to the CORNER of the screen to snap to a QUARTER of your screen. I've long had to use

- Windows 8/10 supports DirectX12 and supports a much faster full-screen capture so if you use OBS/whatever it's much more efficient when doing full-display capture. However, this feature actually WORKS in Windows 7 and someone hacked it in to prove it, but Microsoft simply wants Windows 7 users to leave so they intentionally disabled it and called it an upgrade feature.

- Windows Task Manager FINALLY adds nice GPU monitoring in the fall update so you don't have to use a third-party app for that.

I'm sure I'll notice more positives eventually. But why the HELL do they rename "my computer" -> "computer" -> "this PC" EVERY DAMN VERSION. How is that helping anything? Did some middle-manager get a bonus by suggesting "omg, we gotta rename it. It'll be improved because of synergy."

I'm still pissed they removed Windows Gadgets in Windows 8/10. I love those things. Android has Widgets. Why would they REMOVE a FEATURE like that? So I install 8gadgettool (or whatever) to bring them back. Except, like I mentioned, every Spring/Fall/whatever Creators Update actually UNINSTALLS MY SOFTWARE.

I personally love feeling like a guest on my own computer. I better not bother the real owner of the house, lest I get kicked out.

bamccaig said:

I get like 50 emails a day from mailing lists and things of that nature. There's no way I'd want to be notified unless I filtered them first.

I'm specifically talking about work e-mails (not general e-mails to my personal accounts) and those come in from my boss, notifying me of new work to do. Sometimes time critical work like a server or product went down and needs fixed ASAP. Due to health problems, I can much more easily "Wake up" if I know there's something critical going on when those e-mails start piling in.

-----sig:
“Programs should be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute.” - Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs

raynebc
Member #11,908
May 2010

To me, Windows 10 is much worse than 7. At work we've deployed some and they have some severe problems with Group Policy that 7 never had. Some of the built-in bloat can't even be controlled with Group Policy unless you have an Enterprise license. The GUI, especially the whole settings subsystem, is slower and clumsier than Windows 7.

pkrcel
Member #14,001
February 2012

The setting subsystem is just an extra layer added for who-da-f*ck-knows why, it's awful!

Start tiled menu on the contrary is quite likeable (finally?) and I'm using it a LOT.

Several of my customers did a short trial migration to Win10 but each of them deployed almost immediately after exactly cause they can manage new deployments with a good proven set of ".reg" strings they "ported" from Win7 (I actually think that they've been porting those since Win 0 but I digress ;D ).

I'm no windows basher nor fanboy, I also think that nowadays Linux is way snappier....but all in all Win10 is a good product and is spot-on for Microsoft.

It is unlikely that Google shares your distaste for capitalism. - Derezo
If one had the eternity of time, one would do things later. - Johan Halmén

Edgar Reynaldo
Member #8,592
May 2007
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No, sorry, Microsoft is still daft. Windows 10 restarts my laptop without much warning. If I leave it alone more than a day it will restart if it has updates. And then I lose all my open work. Not that I don't save everything but. Also, Windows 10 is still too dumb to use a persistent file for your desktop icon configuration until it actually shuts down, so if you system shuts down unexpectedly, the only way Windoze knows how to recover is to rearrange all your icons into a nice mashup in alphabetical order on the left of your screen, instead of where you left them like it should. :P

Polybios
Member #12,293
October 2010

Not to mention the ridiculous number of ways Win 10 sends data home to MS?

Neil Roy
Member #2,229
April 2002
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I could have gotten Windows 10 for free but... I am so glad I did not. After reading their licence etc... they want too much control over MY COMPUTER. If I ever to "upgrade", unless they come up with something better, I will most likely switch to Linux, Kubuntu or Xubuntu seem nice.

I can always have a Windows install for specific games etc... that need it, and use Linux as my main OS. I refuse to install an OS that treats me like a guest on my own system.

pkrcel
Member #14,001
February 2012

Doesn't Goggle/apple/amazon do the same with their products? Just wondering.

I may hate it as much as the guy next door, but all in all most of these inconsistencies are quite light and do not bother 99,99% of the users...Chris said that MS treats its power users awfully....that's a given, the HATE power users and windows is no power-user OS, I think we have unix-like variants for that...we all know that.

And...it's true that Win10 restarted my PC if it has updates (windows had always to do that since ...well A LONG TIME...and I also hate it), but not that abruptly as all your comments lead me to think...this seriously bugs me, is my system updated? ???

Windows gotta be windows, and Win10 is a good windows...I didn't expect it to be close to that when I had the unlucky chance to stumble upon win8..brrr...

It is unlikely that Google shares your distaste for capitalism. - Derezo
If one had the eternity of time, one would do things later. - Johan Halmén

raynebc
Member #11,908
May 2010

And on the Windows 10 computers I manage at work, getting them to install updates on demand is really unreliable. Much of the time it's wait for a couple hours and see if it did anything after you tell it to check for updates. Or wait a couple hours while it displays a "Getting Windows Ready - Don't turn off your computer" message with absolutely no progress updates. What garbage.

MiquelFire
Member #3,110
January 2003
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On a podcast network I listen to, it seems that Windows 10 updated and rebooted during the hours you can configure it to NOT auto reboot. If that was a bug, it may have been fixed already. Oh, and CPU-Z was a program they uninstalled from people machines.

On the mobile front (no clue about Macs), it seems they only really remove programs if they found it doing bad things. Most likely, when they remove a program from the phone/tablet remotely, chances are, the version you were using may have been in fact malware in disguise that passed the checks they do somehow.

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Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
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That's another good point. Why is a progress bar or a "expected time to update" so hard to add on an OS that is constantly updating itself. So you have to sit there like an idiot and play the "well, it hasn't taken 30 seconds. Maybe 5 minutes. Nope, still going. Maybe 30 minutes? Nope. 18 hours later, omfg it probably crashed." game.

-----sig:
“Programs should be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute.” - Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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Windows 8.2 ahem 10 is pretty bad with updates. Usually what it does is it will prompt the user that it plans to install updates during off hours (implicitly) and if you want you can choose instead to update now or schedule a different time. In other words, if you aren't there to stop it, it'll update and reboot on its own...

That's not the worst of it. Apparently a major update going around in October actually bricked several machines. I didn't know about this until my finacee's laptop stopped booting. It's often hibernating since she doesn't really use it unless she needs new music or needs to print something out.. Finally she turned it back on and was horrified to discover that it didn't start back up. She asked me to look at it, and I figured it was something innocent, until I realized that it wasn't so simple.

Of course, we don't have proper installation media for the machine because it's an OEM Windows 8 license that we upgraded to 10 online. The error message read "inaccessible boot device" so I assumed a disk cable had come undone or something. And I'm not comfortable enough with computer hardware to attempt to disassemble a laptop on my own. I was prepared to send it to a repair shop, but fortunately I work with a guy that was willing to look at it for me. He's the one that traced it back to Windows update. Apparently Microsoft fixed the update shortly after it rolled out and bricked several machines, but by then the damage was already done. My guy tried to repair the machine, but I think that failed. I didn't fire it up to look, but it sounded like he had to reinstall the system from a downloaded installation media. "Fortunately", because the hardware hadn't changed, Microsoft allowed it to be upgraded to Windows 10 again (Windows 10 is far from perfect, but it's still a lot better than Windows 8).

Worst comes to worst I do have a Windows 7 license sitting on a shelf that I could have used, but I bet my finacee would have been annoyed about "downgrading". She was open to me installing Linux for her instead, except that she needs Windows to access her iPhone.. I was this close.

Neil Roy
Member #2,229
April 2002
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I would have installed Windows 7 for her to save her future headaches, especially if she doesn't use it much.

I managed to buy Windows 7 professional for my Wife on Amazon, I was supposed to get the DVD. They let me download it and install it while I waited. After I didn't get it for a long time, I contacted them again and they stated it was download only, no physical disk, which was bull. I contacted Amazon, had my payment cancelled and expected the key to be no good, but to my surprise, it was still working. So... free Windows 7 pro = happy. Got Win7 on both systems now, workin' like a charm. I won't upgrade if I can avoid it unless there is something better. If they try and control MY MACHINE in the future, I will be on Linux.

I had Kubuntu on my wife's computer for a long time, she is computer illiterate and never used Linux especially, but had no problem with it, which to me says a lot about an OS.

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