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Did you know Google was doing this?
superstar4410
Member #926
January 2001
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itqRC_0KNjQ

You can skip the diversity part if you want, I'm more focused on the technical aspect of search manipulation which comes later in the video.

Don't take yourself too seriously, but do take your responsibilities very seriously.

torhu
Member #2,727
September 2002
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Didn't watch the video, but I switched to DuckDuckGo a few months ago. It's sad that Google has turned into more or less a religious sect. Let's at least try to give them as little money as possible.

Gideon Weems
Member #3,925
October 2003

The question is not whether Google was but whether Google could.

If everyone switched to DDG, DDG would be the new Google. Wash, rinse, repeat.

Constant upheaval is the only way.

Specter Phoenix
Member #1,425
July 2001
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Google is even ruining Youtube. One YT content creator I follow, Raz0rFist, posted a video where he accused the 'algorithm' YT uses as being nothing more than a blacklist. In the video, he showed that the video was fairly boring, and was mild for him, uploaded it private so no one could see it and after a few minutes they demonetized the video. It's not hard evidence for some, but it definitely makes one wonder.

"Can't a man even talk to himself without being interrupted?" -Krull(1983)
"Through vengence I was born. Through war I was trained. Through love I was found. Through death I was released. Through release I was given a purpose." -- Specter Phoenix
"Programming == AWESOME the rest is just tools to accomplish it."
END OF LINE

Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
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I told him to upload the same video multiple times. IF it only flags SOME, it's basically blacklisting "some" of his content so he can't predict exactly what, while still damaging his ability to communicate. Nerfing without making it obvious.

-----sig:
“Programs should be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute.” - Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs

torhu
Member #2,727
September 2002
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If everyone switched to DDG, DDG would be the new Google. Wash, rinse, repeat.

Maybe, but it would take a few years. And it would depend on several other things. The general issue is that the Left has dominated Silicon Valley for a few years now, and they have managed to suppress political ideas through the use of shaming and threats, to the extent where it's now harming innovation and business.

Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
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It should be noted that YT is even more swamped with SJWarriors. It's no wonder they haven't had a new useful feature in like 5 years.

-----sig:
“Programs should be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute.” - Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs

torhu
Member #2,727
September 2002
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Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
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A complete separate management team. ::)

https://www.google.com/search?q=ceo+of+youtube&oq=CEO+of+youtube&aqs=chrome.0.0l6.1632j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

[edit]

Joy Villa Is Given 48 Hours to Remove 'Make America Great Again' Song for Violating YouTube Standards

It's like that funny Ben Folds song. The Ascent of Stan. Where a "textbook hippy man." becomes successful becomes the new "man" that oppresses anyone who thinks different. And the cycle continues.

-----sig:
“Programs should be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute.” - Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs

Gideon Weems
Member #3,925
October 2003

YouTube is Google's queen on the board. The competition provided by alternative search engines is not paralleled by alternative video hosts, as YouTube has a community aspect to it (in addition to being a de facto standard). I would sooner take down YouTube than I would Search, Gmail, or Maps.

... and yet, look at my sig.

Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
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Google demanded Forbes remove article... and then PURGED IT from google searches.

https://boingboing.net/2017/09/01/forbes-removed-article-critica.html

video

By an independant award winning journalist.

[edit]

Also,

video

[edit]

http://gizmodo.com/yes-google-uses-its-power-to-quash-ideas-it-doesn-t-li-1798646437

-----sig:
“Programs should be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute.” - Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs

Gideon Weems
Member #3,925
October 2003

I don't understand the hubbub. The "think" tank had been funded with millions of dollars from Google. Of course Google is going to fire someone who paints them in a bad light. The real problem is caring about what such tanks have to say in the first place.

raynebc
Member #11,908
May 2010

It just further solidifies the conclusion that Google is willing to suppress factual information it (or its funders) don't openly agree with. There are so many biased left and right wing sites out there, and Google is one that people depend on to be impartial because it is one of the biggest tools to finding information on the Internet.

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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There's something popped up in the last few months called HookTube, which is a workalike for YouTube.

I've watched videos that were already banned in YouTube by copying the URL and replacing "youtube" with "hooktube" and it works fine. It's also much easier to get around restrictions on what you can save to your hard disk.

It's become quite featureful in the last few weeks and I may quit watching YouTube altogether.

“Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded — here and there, now and then — are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty. This is known as "bad luck.”

― Robert A. Heinlein

Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
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The news continues:

https://tech.slashdot.org/story/17/09/04/2031251/creator-of-opera-says-google-deliberately-undermined-his-new-vivaldi-web-browser

raynebc said:

It just further solidifies the conclusion that Google is willing to suppress factual information it (or its funders) don't openly agree with. There are so many biased left and right wing sites out there, and Google is one that people depend on to be impartial because it is one of the biggest tools to finding information on the Internet.

Basically. Their entire usefulness as a tool is unbiased access to information (based on quality of information, not political threat to your idealogy.) They're moving from a tool for research, to a tool for telling liberals how awesome they are.

I'm a "liberal" and I'm downright bewildered that others aren't as offended. "It's a private company" is the usual distraction of the right. Now liberals can't stop defending... monopolies.

(Remember when liberals protested Wal-Mart crushing competition from mom-and-pop stores? Now they can't get enough Starbucks, Facebook, and Google.)

[edit]

Likewise:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15169188

Quote:

Google are really shitty with their web browser especially on mobile.
If you run Firefox you get a stripped down version of Google Search also with no infinite scrolling for images and low resolution.

Quote:


freehunter 10 hours ago [-]

Let's not forget the time they refused to make a YouTube app for Windows Phone and when Microsoft made one, Google forced them to remove it. And then seemingly in retribution for making the app, Google blocked Windows Phone from being able to access Google Maps even though the browser was technically capable of using it. Google's reasoning was (similarly to another comment here) "it's too hard to check functionality in so many browsers" like they're not literally the most powerful Internet company in the world engaging in petty nonsense with a basically non-existing competitor.
Remember when Microsoft did the stuff Google does now and the government actually cared enough to do something about it?

as well as:

https://qz.com/823922/eric-schmidt-played-a-crucial-role-in-team-hillarys-election-tech/

[edit]

Holy crap. Duck Duck Go joins the ranks of stupidity. Manipulating autocomplete results.

https://badspot.us/DuckDuckGo-Autocomplete.html

https://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/6yfncs/duckduckgo_manipulates_autocomplete_results/

My point I raised with my friends was, "The whole point of a search engine is unbiased results. If they manipulate it, how can you ever be assured that your research into a topic isn't also biased?" Like, for an extreme example, but illustrates the point: would you ever visit a library in the Soviet Union to read about capitalism? You could, and it's good to get points even from antagonists (like reading the BBC or Al Jazera for US news to compare-and-contrast the US news bubble). But you still have to take into account their opposing bias. Most people trust their library's selection.

Now, granted, autocomplete doesn't guarantee that they bias their search results. But it's a mark against their impunity. "Just because my doctor stole someone's wallet doesn't GUARANTEE he'll botch my surgery, but do I really want to risk it?"

When I used to go to one doctor, he gave me a speech about how bad he felt for mixed race children having to grow up knowing their parents "did that to them." It was so strange it didn't even sink in that it was racism till a few minutes later. I never went back. And yet, the doctor's comments had nothing to do with his medical performance.

Yet a search engine manipulating autocomplete is almost DIRECTLY related to their search results. They want you to see more (or less) of something as opposed to being an unbiased machine, giving you exactly what you ask for.

Imagine if your phone decided "you've had too much to eat or drink" and refused to show you sites you want to visit to eat or drink at. After all, "it's for the good of society", so why not impose that morality on your phone's local search results?

What the hell happened to Silicon Valley and nerdtypes? When did they go from Free Speech advocates creating unbiased tools, to creating "intelligent" systems with a nanny-state attached?

I'm an adult. I decide what is best for me, and what information I allow into my head.

video

-----sig:
“Programs should be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute.” - Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs

raynebc
Member #11,908
May 2010

I'm an adult. I decide what is best for me

This in a nut shell is the antithesis to current leftist politics.

Gideon Weems
Member #3,925
October 2003

. I decide what is best for me...

There's your problem. You can't let Dotslash or any other news organization decide what is best for you.

Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
avatar

raynebc said:

This in a nut shell is the antithesis to current leftist politics.

That's what's so fucked up about all of this. When I was growing up, it was the right-wing bible-thumpers were the ones trying to control our lives. Remember the left saying "Keep the government out of our bedrooms" in regard to gay people? Now they're literally trying (and succeeding in some states) at getting the government involved... in our bedrooms... with consent laws. The left used to protest Wal-Marts pushing out the little man, and now you never hear a peep about unions or big corporations (Not my Starbucks!) crushing the little man.

It's pure lunacy. How did the entire spectrum change in 20-30 years?

And the people who were "left-wing" nutjobs for wanting civil liberties... are now called... "Alt-right nazis" for... wanting civil liberties.

-----sig:
“Programs should be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute.” - Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs

beoran
Member #12,636
March 2011

ChrisKatco, "liberalism" has been completely subverted and corrupted by the powers that be. What is passed off as liberalism now is in essence a regressive cult that worships the "oppressed" as if they were gods and considers the so called straight white men as the devils.

In reality is is just a tool, for pushing politics that favour large corporations. For example, the push to import wage slaves from poorer countries, the push to atomize families, the push to force women to work, the push to suppress free speech, etc. Real liberals are marginalized and labeled "alt right" or even Nazi.

I am not too surprised Google ended up doing this. They are now part of the powers that rule this world. Those who have power of giants, without wisdom of sages, inevitably turn into tyrants.

Edit: I didn't see your last message. I'd say we are in agreement. If you wonder why the spectrum changed, it's as I said above. The powers that be were looking to destroy real liberalism for a long time. They finally realized that a bait and switch subversion would work better. Of course the first tactics was to start funding charities and lobbying with this goal in mind. With the internet, they were finally able to pull this off by using social media and identity politics to divide and conquer the Twitter generation.

torhu
Member #2,727
September 2002
avatar

Identity politics is Communism 2.0. Welcome to the future.

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