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Am I correct? [AC Power connection)
type568
Member #8,381
March 2007
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I'm to connect an electric oven, which uses I believe up to 9 kwth.

This is the scheme:
{"name":"609926","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/4\/b\/4b58e28c95d19d7dfffed465dd4f8c5a.jpg","w":1746,"h":3104,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/4\/b\/4b58e28c95d19d7dfffed465dd4f8c5a"}609926
I've an appropriate power cable, & a 220v power socket. I think 40 amps, I'm calm regarding power sufficiency of the system & cables. What I want to double check though, whether or not I plan to connect it correctly.

I believe I'll use the top left scheme, where the L is the actually power supplying wire (the one that one should really never touch), & the N(#4,5) is null. And the remaining bottom right connector is to be the ground.

Is my plan correct? :)
P.S:
I'm unfamiliar with the terminology used in English, and quick wiki didn't solve my problem.
Thanks.

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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I'm confused. Isn't there a plug that only fits a specific power outlet? :o Are you planning to wire this directly into the building?!

Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
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Many ovens have you wire them yourself. One oven, many different ways to connect them.

https://www.google.com/search?q=wire+oven&es_sm=93&tbm=isch&imgil=joM7QRwxFUW9tM%253A%253BvqfC4tmEPIuYSM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fask-the-electrician.com%25252Fwiring-options-for-a-kitchen-oven.html

But I'm not about to give mains electronics advice on the internet lest he gets himself killed.

-----sig:
“Programs should be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute.” - Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs
"Political Correctness is fascism disguised as manners" --George Carlin

pkrcel
Member #14,001
February 2012

The hell of an Oven is that...9KW?

Guess that's three-phases so that's why you have to wire it yourself...

...well he shouldn't get killed if he does things off-line but...no I guess one shouldn't be doing DIY on such an appliance.

(Anyway my domestic oven here has a very trivial mains plug and it's nowhere close to 9KW)

It is unlikely that Google shares your distaste for capitalism. - Derezo
If one had the eternity of time, one would do things later. - Johan Halmén

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
avatar

pkrcel said:

The hell of an Oven is that...9KW?

The total wattage includes the burners for pans on the top surface.

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

jhuuskon
Member #302
April 2000
avatar

IF YOU DON'T KNOW FOR CERTAIN YOU SHOULDN'T WIRE IT YOURSELF. DIY electricians have burned down houses with far less amperage than that. Hire an electrician, please.

It really should be wired in 3-phase, it has been designed to be wired behind 3 16-amp fuses and in 1 phase you either will burn your house down or will be unable to use the appliance because it'll blow a fuse the second you switch it on.

You don't deserve my sig.

type568
Member #8,381
March 2007
avatar

Sigh.. Guys, I'm Russian. I mean it. :)
It should be connected with one phase, I'm glad it's the same term used in Russian.

About the fact it's to be connected with one phase- it IS a fact, because it's a power outlet in the wall which is designed for this wattage, and there are just three wires: null, ground & phase. Of course I'll be connecting it offline, more than this the current oven I have in my current house(I'm moving to a new apt) was also connected by me, the oven is almost identical and is also connected with three wires & was tested for full power use(normally there's no freaking chance to use it for all 9 kwth, besides it might be slightly below that, I'm unsure if it's actually 9, but the socket & wire i bought are limited to about 9 kwth).

Basically my question is limited to wether or not I understand the scheme correctly:
{"name":"609933","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/d\/0\/d0c4a4331e0774bac9048a2cec1c846d.jpg","w":416,"h":456,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/d\/0\/d0c4a4331e0774bac9048a2cec1c846d"}609933

Johan Halmén
Member #1,550
September 2001

Don't you use 3 phases in Russia? Instead you run 40 A through one phase. Or at least you let it run 40 A before the fuse blows, even if the oven wouldn't use that much. But in case of a bad wire hitting the ground you might get say 38 A running through one wire and no fuse burning. Do you have starter cables in the wall?

In Finland we normally have one phase in each power outlet, 10 A or 16 A. But in the kitchen we have one three phase cable end for the oven (3 * 16 A). A similar for the sauna. And maybe one three phase socket somewhere in the garage.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Years of thorough research have revealed that the red "x" that closes a window, really isn't red, but white on red background.

Years of thorough research have revealed that what people find beautiful about the Mandelbrot set is not the set itself, but all the rest.

type568
Member #8,381
March 2007
avatar

Yep, it's 40A, yep 1 phase. Generally that's what we usually have in Russia, but in this specific case I can ask you why I have phase isntead of three: it's YIT's fresh apt, building finished 2 mo ago. :)

As of something going wrong.. Well, yeah. But it's related to just one device(oh well, I'll also power up my Kettle from it, so no turning all 4 panels + oven + kettle at once ;)).

In the wall I've this:
{"name":"609935","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/c\/3\/c395b633b24184c3df5869160deef7b8.jpg","w":2560,"h":1440,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/c\/3\/c395b633b24184c3df5869160deef7b8"}609935

The outlet goes via 40 amp fuse(~9kwt/h).I guess it's safe to assume the yellow/green is ground. That's EU standard, & it is this way in the nearby outlet. Blue's null & gray is the phase.

What's starter cables?

I did encounter three phases in Russia, but.. Nope, not YIT.

By the way, in the scheme above, I see if it's multiphase it also seems to be 380v. Well, that's mortal hazard to have such voltage @ home, while 220 is relatively safe unless you manage to really grab the wire perhaps.

P.S:
Well, I'm quite sure the L is phase, & the N's null. It makes that inverted T with two underlines ground.

Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
avatar

It's not "null" it's neutral.

Line, Neutral, ground.

Be VERY careful with the wire colors. They are NOT the same as computers and vary by country. This is EXTREMELY important to know and use your country's specific wiring requirements.

I've done lots with electronics, but I always treat mains with a fearful respect.

Follow a book, or an article written by an expert. Your oven should have come with a manual that explains everything. Call an electrician and let them bill you $20 to answer your question if need be.

The chances of failure are low, but the damage that occurs if that failure happens is very high.

type568 said:

By the way, in the scheme above, I see if it's multiphase it also seems to be 380v. Well, that's mortal hazard to have such voltage @ home, while 220 is relatively safe unless you manage to really grab the wire perhaps.

All mains are dangerous. A main can run amps upon amps into you, or anything it touches. It does not reduce in voltage with amperage the way a battery does because it does not have that internal resistance. Treat it like explosive, molten metal. Touching it, dropping it and letting it splatter, will severely injure you.

I normally tell people that electronics are not as dangerous as people make them out to be... capacitors for example. But mains are a literal connection to a power plant and should be treated with awe.

-----sig:
“Programs should be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute.” - Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs
"Political Correctness is fascism disguised as manners" --George Carlin

Johan Halmén
Member #1,550
September 2001

N is usually called null in Finland, because it's zero potential. Three phases are each 220 V compared to ground or neutral. Only if you touch two different phases, you will get 380 V.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Years of thorough research have revealed that the red "x" that closes a window, really isn't red, but white on red background.

Years of thorough research have revealed that what people find beautiful about the Mandelbrot set is not the set itself, but all the rest.

pkrcel
Member #14,001
February 2012

The total wattage includes the burners for pans on the top surface.

That might explain it, but in Russia they have LOTSA GAS....so I hoped this is was an oven and not a full-blown stove. ;D;D;D

Also I should ask, type...what's "9 kwth." ...I understood 9KW but from your following responses I mught have got it wrong.

Anyway in all europe you can go over 16A in a wall power outlet, you need a mains switch to go over 20A and maximum you get 32A in one phase IIRC....but it's been a while I dabbled with these...

Now FORTY Amps in a house? meh.

EDIT: of course I got SOMETHING wrong.... ;D;D;D

It is unlikely that Google shares your distaste for capitalism. - Derezo
If one had the eternity of time, one would do things later. - Johan Halmén

Johan Halmén
Member #1,550
September 2001

pkrcel said:

Also I should ask, type...what's "9 kwth." ...I understood 9KW but from your following responses I mught have got it wrong.

Also I should ask, type...what's "9 KW." ...I understood 9kW but from your following responses I mught have got it wrong.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Years of thorough research have revealed that the red "x" that closes a window, really isn't red, but white on red background.

Years of thorough research have revealed that what people find beautiful about the Mandelbrot set is not the set itself, but all the rest.

Peter Hull
Member #1,136
March 2001

Is it normal to have three-phase in your house? I don't think it is in the UK. We had it at work - a lot of the manufacturing equipment and the lathes in the workshop used it, but not at home.

Johan Halmén
Member #1,550
September 2001

All houses have three phases. But we have very few sockets with all three phases. As I mentioned: stove, sauna and garage. One room or one section has one phase in all sockets. Another room or section has another phase. The total used effect on all three phases in the whole house should be somewhat equal.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Years of thorough research have revealed that the red "x" that closes a window, really isn't red, but white on red background.

Years of thorough research have revealed that what people find beautiful about the Mandelbrot set is not the set itself, but all the rest.

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
avatar

Admittedly back in the '50's, but my dad had to pay to get an extra wire run to provide three-phase power down on the farm. It was supposed to provide power for an arc welder he never bought. We had two transformers instead of the usual one as a result.

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

Johan Halmén
Member #1,550
September 2001

Strange how different systems there are. I thought the three phase system would be common everywhere. And the demand that every household use equally much of each phase. On the other hand, what would I know. I'm just a music teacher who skipped the polytechnics in favour of music, and who burned away some of my fingerprints with 220 V as a kid.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Years of thorough research have revealed that the red "x" that closes a window, really isn't red, but white on red background.

Years of thorough research have revealed that what people find beautiful about the Mandelbrot set is not the set itself, but all the rest.

type568
Member #8,381
March 2007
avatar

It's not a house.. It's a 30 sq m studio in a fresh YIT building. I believe the apt only has one phase, and I can't recall apartments with more than that. Private houses yes. I meant kilowatts per hour with my kwth.* The power socket for the oven stove has 40 amps. Rest if the sockets are 16 amps each, and the full power switch is, I believe 60 amps.

There is no gas in Russia in buildings which are higher than, I believe 5 levels. It's somehow related to safety, I'm clueless for what reason is it this way, but I prefer the electric stove anyways: faster, more efficient & less heat generated at home, which causes less temperature imbalances. It also requires less temperature protection for the stuff that's around the stove.

Strange how different systems there are. I thought the three phase system would be common everywhere. And the demand that every household use equally much of each phase. On the other hand, what would I know. I'm just a music teacher who skipped the polytechnics in favour of music, and who burned away some of my fingerprints with 220 V as a kid.

Well, the house may very well be with three or whatever count of phases. Just not to make people mess with it, they maybe cycling it on the apartment levels. If say, there are 600 apts, each phase to be used by 200.

pkrcel said:

That might explain it, but in Russia they have LOTSA GAS....so I hoped this is was an oven and not a full-blown stove. ;D;D;D

Hm, A 9 kW grill to make my burgers in some 3 mins.. Could be nice. But the problem is that I don't like fried food. Could add some microwaves & air heating though. And, oh well.. Make it heat all house by the way.

Oh, & another thing about Russia & energy.. There isn't as much as everyone is thinking everywhere, both in Russia & abroad. Russia is the country that is in absolute terms most rich with natural resources overall, as well as energy overall, and as well as gas overall. But, it's also a pretty big country. The population is over 140 mil, and the resources are often in difficult to access(remote, & sparsely populated) areas. So actual per capita amount of energy ain't that big: Canada's lands are wealthier with energy on a per capita basis, while say Norway dwarves both mentioned countries.

*- I'm clueless why did I add the time measurement unit there, it's not batteries after all.

Append:
About "null" vs "neutral".. Well, in Finland you maybe calling it null, it's also called this way in Russia. But in Russia it's called this way in Russian, & in Finland I suppose you use a Finnish word. So if they say it's neutral in English, I think it is.

Johan Halmén
Member #1,550
September 2001

The Finnish (YIT 8-) ) word is nolla. And sharing the three phases on 600 apartments makes sense. The only little security problem is that a faulty cable has to create a 40 A current before it blows the fuse.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Years of thorough research have revealed that the red "x" that closes a window, really isn't red, but white on red background.

Years of thorough research have revealed that what people find beautiful about the Mandelbrot set is not the set itself, but all the rest.

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
avatar

I didn't realize that "YIT" was an organization... The Web told me it was a racial slur used in Russia for Jews or something. :-X

type568
Member #8,381
March 2007
avatar

The racist word for a jew in Russian is Jude(жид). Well, the stove is connected.. Ended up being connected by the guy made the kitchen furniture stuff. My understanding of the scheme was correct though.

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
avatar

type568
Member #8,381
March 2007
avatar

lol.. Well, I mean it.

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