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LennyLen
Member #5,313
December 2004
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bamccaig said:

That said, I still seem to be having memory issues and can very easily still have my brain "blank". The eye doctor called me earlier, and by the end of our 2 minute conversation I had to ask who was calling again (what appointment I had just agreed to bring a list of my medication to). ::) I haven't smoked cannabis in about 2 weeks now (and no alcohol in probably 2 months?). It's interesting that I'm still suffering from these mental issues without cannabis, though it will be another 2-3 weeks before the THC will really be clear from my systems.

This could well be caused by the anxiety, which is known to cause memory problems. Giving up alcohol and pot could well be exacerbating the problem as if you'd been using them to self-medicate, coming off them can ramp up your anxiety levels significantly.

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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That's very fair to say. It may fit. Nevertheless, I'm happy to give up alcohol because my relationship with it was no longer helpful, and it seemed to exacerbate my depression.

I don't really plan to quit cannabis permanently, but I needed a tolerance break anyway. I was smoking like 4 grams a day and often adding shatter to the mix too. I doubt that I'll gain any lasting intolerance, but I can hope.

I would like to stop using it medicinally and use it only recreationally, but my anxiety is still the worst I can remember. Feels like my anxiety is out of control now.
That said, the on call psychiatrist seemed to think that I needed to feel the anxiety to get better.

Time will tell when or if I go back to substance abuses. I've been craving some weed just to relax and unwind, but I'm trying to get my body flushed out before I make any decisions there.

I really appreciate your perspective on this, LennyLen. Thanks for the help!

DanielH
Member #934
January 2001
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bamccaig said:

it seemed to exacerbate my depression

It should more than "seem". It is well known to cause depression.

Have you considered the psychotic effects you are getting are from using cannabis, or cannabis is a major factor, as a reason to cut back or stop?

Cannabis use has been reported to induce long-lasting psychotic disorders and a dose-response relationship has been observed

I haven't used it myself, but was wondering if it would help me as well. The problem is that until it is federally approved, THC is on the restricted list. It's approved in my state, but not federally. Still on the fence about CBD products as well. Don't want to risk my license.

LennyLen
Member #5,313
December 2004
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bamccaig said:

That's very fair to say. It may fit. Nevertheless, I'm happy to give up alcohol because my relationship with it was no longer helpful, and it seemed to exacerbate my depression.

Definitively, and I'm certainly not advocating the use of alcohol and pot in this fashion, just pointing out that removing them can initially make things a little worse.

But that's what the therapy and medication is for, to make things better. And it can, if you let it.

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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DanielH said:

It should more than "seem". It is well known to cause depression.

What a silly thing to say. You think the world drinks alcohol to get depressed? People drink alcohol because it WORKS (to quote my medical doctor). The vast majority do not notice the depressing effects. That doesn't mean that they aren't there, but depending on what you're treating it might be the lesser evil. Far too many people in our society depend on alcohol to function. It's a very dangerous drug when abused, but society isn't willing to do better than that right now.

Ultimately, it's a poor substitute for real medical/mental health care, but the world we live in is still a very, very, VERY long way from being perfect. For many people, alcohol is their only option. It took me 34 years to ask for help. I recognized the need by 19. Services and supports are barely there.

In fact, I'm still on a long waiting list to actually receive personalized care from a psychiatrist. I'd still likely be suicidal or a threat to society if not for my breakdown, crying for help in the only way I could manage, and my dad getting involved to get me the care that I needed. If you go into the ER in my city wanting to kill yourself you can see a psychiatrist in 5 to 24 hours. Or so I found out. Otherwise, it takes MONTHS if not YEARS. :P That is, unless you're wealthy enough to pay out of pocket, which few of us probably are.

Sorry if that came across as confrontational. I'm still writhing from abuse in #allegro, and I initially interpreted this sentence as hostile. That is most likely my error and for that I apologize in advance. It was not my intention to come across in this post, however.

DanielH said:

Cannabis use has been reported to induce long-lasting psychotic disorders and a dose-response relationship has been observed

Have you considered the psychotic effects you are getting are from using cannabis, or cannabis is a major factor, as a reason to cut back or stop?

Why research/science is locked behind pay walls I'll never understand. This species is without merit.

I've given serious thought to the risks of cannabis [ab]use (and alcohol [ab]use) over the years. Before I ever tried cannabis I did my research. Alcohol, which I was already abusing (along with much of my family/supports), is dangerous on a scale similar to that of heroin. By comparison, cannabis is VERY safe. That said, it still carries it's share of risks, and the lack of research on it doesn't help.

Once again, this species is without merit. There was never a good reason for its prohibition (mostly racism, I think, but there's probably also a corporate interest in its prohibition because it allows Big Pharma to sell far more harmful drugs with far more harmful side effects at a great profit), let alone research on it.

I've known since I was in elementary school that I (my mind, my brain, myself) am different than others, and I've long suspected/known that mental illness was going to be a part of my life.

I started out using cannabis very cautiously. My diminishing mental health and existing alcoholism drove my increasing abuse of it. Having kicked alcohol (for now) with cannabis it's a no-brainer that the overall impact on my health is beneficial, EVEN IF it steers me towards or speeds along my psychosis/schizophrenia.

When I was a child I used to hear whispers and other things when there weren't any. I still think that I hear things that aren't there. In other words, I suspect that I am predestined for a diagnosis related to schizophrenia, but I figure why put off the inevitable? The path that my life has taken contributes to my behaviours and decision making. I've toyed with the notion of ending my own life repeatedly throughout it (the abuse this community feeds me contributes to this as well). I'm already tired. I'd happily cease existence at any point in time. I'd also happily waste away in a prison or mental hospital, or at least happily commit myself to one so that by the time I regretted it it would be too late.

The smile/giggles/fun of being stoned is well worth it for me, but you have to make your own decisions there. Do more research. If you don't abuse it the way that I have there should be few risks. If you wish to discuss your interest and what you think it would help with there is plenty of experience here (good and bad) to help guide your decision.

I hope not to need to abuse any substances now that I'm getting professional help, and so I do not intend to reintroduce alcohol into my daily routine. I am currently hoping to also limit my cannabis consumption in the future to recreational and occasional use, but only time will tell whether that changes. As usual, I try to keep my mind open so I'm flexible to change those stances as my circumstances change.

I need to stay healthy for my wife so I do not wish to exacerbate my mental health in any way. It's too bad that people like Sevalecan, KittyCat, and SiegeLord put jabs and gaffs and abuses ahead of other people's health and well-being. Unfortunately, my life has taught me that they're not in the minority, and they're unlikely to face any consequences for their actions.

If only I could force them to deliver the news to my wife and parents.

Onewing
Member #6,152
August 2005
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Awesome post, bam. Sounds like living: the good, the bad and the irrelevant days in between.

/waves at Edgar

8-)

Edit
I'm a n00b again! I hadn't caught up to the latest posts yet and was a page behind in the thread. ;D

------------
Solo-Games.org | My Tech Blog: The Digital Helm

LennyLen
Member #5,313
December 2004
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bamccaig said:

Alcohol, which I was already abusing (along with much of my family/supports), is dangerous on a scale similar to that of heroin. By comparison, cannabis is VERY safe.

I've been in and out of AOD clinics for most of my adult life, and they've never even tried to get me to stop using cannabis. They just focus on the alcohol, as it's the far greater threat.

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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Exactly. I told my GP MD that I was going to try to cut cannabis out too, and he offered that an occasional joint is still fine. 😁

After being unable to sleep because of the IRC drama I went and tried a workout on my parents treadmill. I did a 10K speedwalk/light jogging on level 5/10. My first attempt was sabotaged when I accidentally hit the safety string and pulled out the switch. The fucking treadmill reset to selecting the user (Guest) before the workout!? After 30 minutes/2.5 km. I restarted the 10K and completed it in another 2 hours. Feels good.

{"name":"612952","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/d\/e\/de2ee41897d50ea953fd5f99127c2512.jpg","w":1209,"h":1612,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/d\/e\/de2ee41897d50ea953fd5f99127c2512"}612952

I'm tempted to reward myself with a single preroll joint. Indica so it might help me sleep tonight. I'll give my wife an opportunity to veto it first... :P8-)>:(:D

Append:

Fuck! She vetoed it. She probably thinks it's going to make me suicidal again... ::) But I don't think there's much of a chance of that. I've gotten the things that were bugging me off my chest. As long as I avoid toxic people I should be fine to smoke. :'(

Append:

I checked if she'd me mad at me for buying some anyway! And I got permission! I'm about to light up Strawberry Twist (Sundial Growers Inc). Good vibes to anyone else struggling or smoking. Cheers!

P.S. What, you've never seen a machine in his underwear before?! I have nothing to hide!

RmBeer2
Member #16,660
April 2017
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God has spoken to me, he has said that I'm his new guardian angel and I must purify the planet!!

tenor.gif

🌈🌈🌈 🌟 BlackRook WebSite 🌟 C/C++ 🌟 GNU/Linux 🌟 IceCream/Cornet 🌟 🌈🌈🌈

Rm Beer for Emperor 2021!

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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Edgar Reynaldo
Major Reynaldo
May 2007
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4 But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another.
5 For every man shall bear his own burden.
6 Let him that is taught in the word communicate unto him that teacheth in all good things.
7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.
10 As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.

For all of you who like to mock God. You reap what you sow.

LennyLen
Member #5,313
December 2004
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For all of you who like to mock God. You reap what you sow.

Sure, yes, we do all reap what we sow. But threatening people with the wrath of an imaginary being is a pretty lame threat. I'd be more worried if you said you were going to get a pack of Care Bears to come beat me up.

P.S. we're not mocking your god, since he doesn't exist. We're mocking you.

Edgar Reynaldo
Major Reynaldo
May 2007
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Why is either acceptable? I know God is real, I've had many, many, many encounters with God in my life. He has saved me from death, mental illness and more. You ARE mocking God, and you ARE mocking me. I'm nobody, but God is the creator of the universe.

Have fun while it lasts, fools.

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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Edgar, I can understand why religion gives people strength. It doesn't need to be true to work for you. I agree that it shouldn't be mocked for people to believe in things that do more good than harm. I don't think you generally empower too many others so I don't think your beliefs are hurting anyone (that I know of).

That said, every time you choose to describe your beliefs to us and assert that they not only work for you, but they work because it's true and the rest of us are going to be punished for offending your percieved deity you are necessarily drawing criticism of your beliefs. If somebody claims an imaginary being is going to harm me I'm going to refute that. You need to know your audience. I will challenge bullshit beliefs any time they're forced upon me. The answer isn't for me to stop challenging your beliefs. It's for you to stop pushing your beliefs on others. That way you can believe in peace without wasting time arguing about a nonissue.

And yes, I know your holy book is interpreted in such a way by people that they feel entitled/dutiful to push their beliefs on others. They even use the childish tactic of empty threats to try to coerce others to be afraid to think freely. That's a toxic interpretation of the Bible. And it triggers free thinking people to mock you for believing it. Ignore those passages and keep it to yourself. If it's true it will happen to us whether you tell us or not. Save your breath. Keep the peace.

I'd like to remind you that your religion is but one of many that people swear by. The Islamic faith is built with many of the same traps as Christianity. Except many people's interpretation is generally that non-believers should be eradicated instead of converted in. Alas, as soon as there's two ancient books that contradict each other and threaten harm for not believing in them we know that at least one of them is probably bullshit, and the possibility exists that they all are bullshit. But to reiterate, that doesn't mean that it doesn't still WORK for you and others. I am beginning to conclude that these beliefs work to maintain mental health through the faith that you have a supreme being planning out your life. There's nothing to worry about for you! Your needs will be met by your deity. And whatever happens is part of his supreme plan! It doesn't have to be true to have real benefits.

It does however need to be true for somebody like me to believe it. Which may be unfortunate. It may be the path less travelled, and it may be taking the hard route. However, I can't square myself with the childish threats and the real world harms that people's beliefs lead to. So I'll always challenge an assertion of truth where none exists.

Belief in a deity that you can't sense in the real world requires faith. Which is the blind leading the blind. It doesn't actually guarantee you a fortunate life. God's plan might be for you to suffer immensely through life. The reasons for which we might not be able to understand. If that gives you peace then so be it. It doesn't do much for me.

The thought of living forever doesn't interest me. Even in "heaven" I imagine it would either get boring if I was myself or it would be meaningless to me if I'm going to change into something else in the afterlife. The thought of ceasing existence upon death because my consciousness is no longer suspended due to brain death gives me peace. No matter how bad it gets there's a simple way to end your suffering (but you are loved by other people, and you would be leaving them behind without your help, so it's not for most of us).

When Chester Bennington killed himself I was heart broken. I couldn't understand how somebody so loved and talented could feel the need to end their life. That is, until this year. Now I get it, and it's tragic that doctors/psyches were unable to give him peace. Suicide is a bad option because its giving up. However, it requires misfortune or poor mental health to become suicidal. Chester must have been feeling hopeless when he did it. Maybe even just a temporary weak point. However, his substance abuse to self -medicate appears to have pushed other people away. So he was alone in those thoughts. That's a recipe for tragedy. But hey, I guess it was part of God's plan for Chester to suffer immensely for most of his life. I can't understand it! And I don't want to! I think it's the result not of a supreme plan, but of the natural behaviours of a disgusting creature that evolved to be intelligent, but is still a long way from achieving it on a grand scale.

For the most part the haves think they're worthy and the have nots are unworthy. We collectively choose to allow this to be perpetuated by the haves. It's in our nature unfortunately. The late Gene Roddenberry had ideas of a fair and just world, and I choose to believe it's attainable. We have a long way to go though. So I try to fight for science aka truth. That's the only way that I see this world and our species getting better than it is. And the way that it is is far below my standards. Maybe that's God's plan for now, but that doesn't mean that in the future he doesn't want us to take good care of everyone and develop our mental health strategies to no longer depend on him for everything. It doesn't mean that a utopian society can't exist globally (and even out into space).

Religion happens to do a lot of harm in this world. It's difficult to quantify the net morality of it, but I tend to conclude that it does more harm than good. That said, my brain developed in a unique way, and this is who I fundamentally am. To each their own. My utopian beliefs assert that we're all equal regardless of fortune, and the more fortunate have a duty to share equally with the less fortunate. That's the only way that I can imagine this world becoming a better place. However, I'm beginning to recognize that most people's natural brain development and socialization prevents them from thinking this way. In that sense, my dreams of a fair and just society may be hopeless. I can certainly understand how your path is the easier path to take. Perhaps it's the only valid path to endure this life. Only time will tell. My morality squares it all up for me in the end, even if it means I suffer mental illness as a result. I believe there's fundamentally solutions to every problem, even if our greatest minds can't think of them yet. As intelligent as our species is it still leaves a lot of room for improvement. Like, A LOT.

My parents still believe these things and go to my childhood church. And I've debated my mom about it too over the years. And you know how that would go. ;D But we always stop when she's had enough. It doesn't affect her faith because it's faith... It is in spite of science. And that's their choice and yours.

Edgar Reynaldo
Major Reynaldo
May 2007
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Brandon, since you seem to be the only one who will debate this intelligently, I will respond fully to you.

I will say, your ideas about Christianity are deeply flawed, and show a lack of knowledge. I say this not to insult you, but to give you an accurate account of where you are at this point in time.

bamccaig said:

That said, every time you choose to describe your beliefs to us and assert that they not only work for you, but they work because it's true and the rest of us are going to be punished for offending your perceived deity you are necessarily drawing criticism of your beliefs. If somebody claims an imaginary being is going to harm me I'm going to refute that. You need to know your audience. I will challenge beliefs any time they're forced upon me. The answer isn't for me to stop challenging your beliefs. It's for you to stop pushing your beliefs on others. That way you can believe in peace without wasting time arguing about a nonissue.

This is a double sided coin. Every time one of you pushes your atheist beliefs on me or tries to spread it to others, I feel obliged to respond, because this is a serious issue, and the reality is most of you are ignorant of God's Word. The truth doesn't require me to believe it, it simply is. Christianity is not a religion, it's a reality, that we all have to face whether we like it or not, whether we believe in it or not.

First, an education in what happens when we die. When we die, our souls return where they came from, that is to say, Heaven. No one goes to hell, at least not in the sense you understand it. There are two places people commonly describe as hell. One is the lake of fire. If God sentences you to the lake of fire, your soul will be destroyed and you will cease to exist. That is the second death. Everyone dies once, but some people will die twice and no longer exist. When a person dies they go back to heaven where their soul came from. We existed in spiritual bodies long before we existed in flesh bodies. But, there are two sides to Heaven. One is the good side, where people have received salvation. The other side is for the people who failed judgement. You may think of it as purgatory if you like. No one can cross over from one side to the other without God's permission. When Jesus Christ returns the Lord's day begins and there will be a 1000 year period of teaching during which those who didn't pass judgement will be allowed to repent and follow Jesus Christ and be saved. This is known as the second resurrection. God is fair, and God gives those who didn't make it a second chance to believe and receive eternal life. He doesn't want his children to die or to have to put them to death in the lake of fire, but he will if it comes to that. Most people don't even have a chance in this world of sin and evil and corrupt flesh. Satan is the prince of this world, and he deceives all those he can into turning away from God and Jesus Christ.

bamccaig said:

And yes, I know your holy book is interpreted in such a way by people that they feel entitled/dutiful to push their beliefs on others. They even use the childish tactic of empty threats to try to coerce others to be afraid to think freely. That's a toxic interpretation of the Bible. And it triggers free thinking people to mock you for believing it. Ignore those passages and keep it to yourself. If it's true it will happen to us whether you tell us or not. Save your breath. Keep the peace.

I wish you would stop calling them beliefs. They're reality, but I can understand why you call them that because you don't know any better. God's threats are not empty, and one day he will run out of patience. But God is long suffering, and he doesn't wish calamity or destruction upon any of his children. But when the day of God's wrath comes upon this world, many people will be praying for the mountains to fall upon them to hide their shame because of their ignorance and unbelief.

bamccaig said:

I am beginning to conclude that these beliefs work to maintain mental health through the faith that you have a supreme being planning out your life. There's nothing to worry about for you! Your needs will be met by your deity. And whatever happens is part of his supreme plan! It doesn't have to be true to have real benefits.

Again, truth doesn't need anyone to believe it. It simply is. And it's not just about believing in God. The devils believe in God, and they tremble at his presence. You would do well to do the same, or at least have a healthy dose of respect for the God of the Universe. God is your Father, and he wants you to believe in Him, because his promises are true. But you have to read the Bible to find out what those promises are.

bamccaig said:

Belief in a deity that you can't sense in the real world requires faith. Which is the blind leading the blind

I sense God all the time. He may not speak directly to me, or appear to me visually, but I know He's there. And yes, it requires faith. In God's Word, it says "We walk by faith, and not by sight". You simply choose to put your faith in different things like science, which can do a great many things, but cannot save your soul from death.

https://applygodsword.com/what-does-walk-by-faith-mean/

bamccaig said:

The thought of living forever doesn't interest me.

God is an awesome God, full of knowledge and power. Trust me, heaven won't be boring. AND, all the good works you've done in this world are treasure waiting for you in Heaven. Eternal life in the flesh would be vain and awful. Flesh is corruptible, the spirit is not.

bamccaig said:

When Chester Bennington killed himself I was heart broken. I couldn't understand how somebody so loved and talented could feel the need to end their life

Chester Bennington had serious clinical depression and mental illness. He wasn't in his right mind when he killed himself. It's a tragedy, and it could have been avoided. God has the power to heal us, all we have to do is ask in Jesus name and have faith that our prayers have been answered. God has healed me multiple times. God provides us everything we need, but it's up to us to humble ourselves and ask for His help.

bamccaig said:

Religion happens to do a lot of harm in this world

False religion does a lot of harm in this world. FTFY.

God wants us to know the truth. That's why he sent us the Bible. If you would read it with understanding you would know that.

God doesn't want us to suffer, that's why he sent Jesus to take away our sin.

By His stripes were ye healed. Jesus endured the cross so that we could be free and so that we could have everlasting life with the Father. God is not tempted of evil, nor does he tempt anyone with evil.

Yes there is suffering in this world. God never promised flesh life would be easy, but he's willing to take our burdens upon himself so that we can have better, happy, blessed lives.

I don't fault you for your ignorance Brandon, but you need to educate yourself. Churches today seem to do a rather poor job of that. With pastors always too busy telling anecdotes about their lives and not actually teaching the Word of God, that's somewhat to be expected though.

Dizzy Egg
Member #10,824
March 2009
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You keep talking about "the god", but you only say that because of where you were born. If you had been born and raised in India, you'd more than likely be a hindu. If you were born in the middle east, you'd more than likely be a muslim. If you were born in raised in part of Africa, you'd more than likely believe in the great ju-juj over the mountain, or under the sea. You seem convinced that you're are right, and only "your" god is real. There are around 2,000 "gods" being praised to on Earth today, as an atheist I don't believe in 2,000 of them, you don't believe in 1,999 of them, which makes you nearly as much of an atheist as me. And by the way, the manner in which you're coming across is getting dangerously close to being dangerous, and the reason many, many wars have been fought. No-one is forcing you to become an atheist, but the burdon of proof is on you. You keep saying you "know for certain" that the christian god exists, I say to you, that is ridiculous, and if it were the case you'd be world famous. I have the bible, the torah and the quran at home, and I've read most of all three; I also have the bhavagad gita,and have read a lot of that. But I also read other books, all of them fiction, all of them written by man, some good, some laughable. I put it to you that it is YOU that are small-minded, closed-minded, and ever so slightly dangerous in your devout opinion.

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Edgar Reynaldo
Major Reynaldo
May 2007
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A tonne of places around the world are Christian too, what's your point.

All of you keep asking me to prove what I believe, and you take everything I say and ignore it as if you knew better than me about my own relationship with God and the Lord Jesus Christ. Quality over quantity my friend. And don't worry, my egg-headed friend, one day you'll hatch into a real duckling.

I will say this to all the atheists here. It's not that I don't think you're worth saving, I just don't think you're ready to be saved. If you want me to shutup then you better too, because your totally ignorant atheism is a religion just as much as mine by your own definition. You all are totally blind and you say to me 'you can see'. What about God? Does not He who created the ear, does he not hear? Does He who created the eye not see?

When we get to Heaven, some of us will be dressed rather poorly. It says your robe shall be made of your righteous acts. Some of you have none, and you will be naked before the people.

Grab your fig leaves now! On sale at your local Bible store. Limited quantity. While sale lasts.

On a more serious note

27 And when Jesus departed thence, two blind men followed him, crying, and saying, Thou son of David, have mercy on us.

28 And when he was come into the house, the blind men came to him: and Jesus saith unto them, Believe ye that I am able to do this? They said unto him, Yea, Lord.

29 Then touched he their eyes, saying, According to your faith be it unto you.

30 And their eyes were opened; and Jesus straitly charged them, saying, See that no man know it.

Ye have not because ye ask not. Ye ask not because ye have no faith. You see not because you are blind spiritually.

DiZZy eGG said:

that the christian god exists, I say to you, that is ridiculous, and if it were the case you'd be world famous.

Funny you say that, because Jesus Christ is world famous.

video

LennyLen
Member #5,313
December 2004
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video

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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The truth doesn't require me to believe it, it simply is.

Yay, we agree on something! :D

But we're both set in our "truths". Let's end the debate and agree to disagree on the details. I'd rather keep the few people still tolerant of me on my good side for my own good. Rest assured, I read every word, thought carefully about it all, and appreciate your perspective on things.

Call me a lost sheep or a sucker to Satan's deceit, but from where I'm standing Satan has a lot more going for him if I'm an example of his flock. If I ever can confront God in any meaningful way it will be ME with the anger and disappointment! If he's real I still want nothing to do with him. Give me the second death. Or the pergatory side. Bring it on. I'll gladly suffer with the other victims instead of putting my comfort ahead of what I believe to be right. I'm not perfect, but I guess that's part of his plan anyway. Let me be a lesson to you!

Excellent post, Dizzy, but we've beaten this particular dead horse on several occasions. The past attempts are still there if anybody needs a refresher. I'm just glad that it works for you, Edgar. That's good enough for me today.

Append:

Thanks also LennyLen. Yes, my head is about where Stephen Fry's is. I've seen that before, but it's awesome to see somebody so intelligent handle it so gracefully under pressure and in the public space. It's worth watching again and again so we never forget.

Edgar Reynaldo
Major Reynaldo
May 2007
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Polybios
Member #12,293
October 2010

I will say this to all the atheists here. It's not that I don't think you're worth saving, I just don't think you're ready to be saved.

First, an education in what happens when we die.

but you need to educate yourself.

What has been putting me a bit off about this, is not the contents, but my impression of "transcendental arrogance" of one who (thinks he) knows it all for certain and the resulting missionary zeal. At least that's my impression. The attitude reminds me of islamic fundamentalists or even militant communists.

While in a way, it may seem an advantage to perceive one's own spiritual foundation as rock-solid and take it literally from the bible (or any other source of unquestioned truth), I'm not really so sure. In my experience, growth as a human being comes from constant questioning and critical thinking, fully developing of one's own capabilities. I've read some theological interpretation once (cannot remember where right know) that God wanted us to become like him, i.e. fully realizing our own potential. This, in my view, includes rational thinking. There are more approaches for reading the Bible than the literal one.

I'm totally fine with anyone taking a more literal approach, but presenting it as the only truth and publicly deliberating whether others are "worth saving" goes a bit too far for my tastes. After all, you, too, are only human, aren't you? Do you think your beliefs put you above others? More theologically spoken: even into a position to assess the possibility of salvation of others? Over the Internet? Wouldn't that be a divine privilege (well, the Internet part at least :P)?

Anyway, don't want to offend you (or anyone else), so please take it easy. :)

I'm glad you feel you are "improving", bambam.

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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Yes, I think that Cornell is part of the support system that kept Chester going as long as he did. They were close. So when Chris killed himself it surprised me that friends/family would leave Chester alone. But I bet Chester was practiced at downplaying his mental health so as to avoid accepting attention that he probably didn't feel he was worth (though I think he was an angel in training if there is such a thing). I'd love to think that Chester is waiting for me in the end to give the choir in Heaven a most powerful and interesting range/voices. I remember where I was when I heard. I was at camp with my girlfriend (now wife) and parents. I think the news came up on my wife's feed, and she knew I was a big fan. I pretty nearly cried. It felt like a lifetime of crying for help went unanswered. I eventually realized that he suffered for most of his life, and one way or another his suffering had finally ended. He's finally at peace. Or so I believe, but I doubt he was square with God, especially if you consider suicide an ultimate sin as so many do.

Append:

Awesome story, Arthur. That's the kind of contribution I miss from you! ❤️😘 I don't remember reading that before, but I used to drink a lot... Alas, what makes Hank's followers so high above us is that they aren't distracted by silly logic. Whatever Hank says is always right, even if you can't understand it yourself. So I think people like Edgar will just continue believing that kissing Karl's ass to pass on to Hank will eventually solve their problems. Nobody has ever kissed Hank's ass, and eaten wieners in a bun with no condiments, left town, and not been given a million dollars. You've never met one I bet! Prove it or I know Hank was right all along!

Edgar Reynaldo
Major Reynaldo
May 2007
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@Polybios
That was in reference to how much time I would be spending educating them, NOT a commentary on whether or not anyone was worth saving.

I'm not offended by anything you say, don't worry.

Funny you question the 'rock-solid' nature of my stance towards Christianity.

Christ said he is the Rock, the foundation, the cornerstone. What I say comes from him, that's how I can trust it.

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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Today I set the throttle lock on my motorcycle on the highway and rode no handed from the pillion seat for about 10 km. 😬🤣 You need to keep things interesting. The pillion seat is actually pretty comfortable. The handles work great. The other day I told my wife I'm probably the coolest person around, but there's never anybody around to see it. 😎🏍️

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