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Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
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bamccaig said:

I'm not familiar with Tim Pool, but it sounds like despite claims of being a centrist or liberal he actually sides with the alt-right in America most of the time. It's no surprise then that you both think he's a good source: he agrees with you. Careful that you aren't relying on confirmation bias. :P

Tonight on "everyone who disagrees with me is alt-right"

You literally said you don't know him, AND, that he's alt-right. Fun fact: He is Korean-American, liberal to a core, supported hippies and anarchism in his teens, and won awards for documenting the Occupy Wallstreet rally.

-----sig:
“Programs should be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute.” - Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs
"Political Correctness is fascism disguised as manners" --George Carlin

Erin Maus
Member #7,537
July 2006
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I supported Republicans when I was a young kid / early teen and it turns out I'm super queer, Stalinist-Communist anti-fascist (REPUBLICANS ARE FASCIST) sooo ;D

(...

I wonder what's sarcasm, what's a joke, what's an exaggeration, and what's not. :o)

---
ItsyRealm, a quirky 2D/3D RPG where you fight, skill, and explore in a medieval world with horrors unimaginable.
they / them / their

Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
avatar

IMO, the closest you get to unbiased journalism in USA is something like NPR.

Cannot vouch for the "accuracy" of this particular graph, but looks similar to others that I've seen:

https://www.adfontesmedia.com/interactive-media-bias-chart/

My take on something like CNN v Fox News is that the former are liberal leaning people who see things in a liberal view, and the latter is about equivalently right leaning. However, CNN's bias feels like a natural, unintentional extension of their perspective, whereas I get the impression from Fox News that they sit around and purposefully try to figure out how they can mislead their audience to reinforce their beliefs to keep them coming back for more.

I don't mind bias and selective reporting from agencies that are for-profit, funded by ads, etc. I expect it. I just don't like when networks post doctored images from one part of the country and pretend it's a picture from Seattle, etc... That kind of stuff is worse than a used car salesperson.

Now I recently saw some clips from Chris Wallace v Trump. If everybody interviewed like that, then I'd have a different opinion on Fox News. But if you're only going to ask softball questions and not forcefully fact check on the spot, then don't call yourself a "News" station or a "Journalist."

Edgar Reynaldo
Major Reynaldo
May 2007
avatar

BBC is decent. Fox is mostly trash. PBS News Hour is good. Don't watch cable. Will check out newspaper articles online. Quit stalling, pussy. If you're just gonna sit back and point fingers at us lefties, why don't you come forward yourself. I still have yet to hear a convincing argument from you on any topic and you're still unwilling to disclose your sources. Let me guess, the Epoch Times perhaps? They're the most right wing communist newspaper there is. I wouldn't be surprised if they were founded by Russians or Chinese.

Will watch Young Turk videos from time to time, for a fresh dose of reality.

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
avatar

Tonight on "everyone who disagrees with me is alt-right"

You literally said you don't know him, AND, that he's alt-right. Fun fact: He is Korean-American, liberal to a core, supported hippies and anarchism in his teens, and won awards for documenting the Occupy Wallstreet rally.

I didn't just assume. I Googled him. ::) "Alt-right" isn't even in my goddamn vocabulary. I don't subscribe to ideology. I cherry-pick the best ideas from any reliable source. Nothing is ever set in stone. I don't consider myself on any side. I care about the truth, and everyone not in that category can be dismissed as crazy or stupid.

That doesn't mean that you have to believe in my understanding of the "truth", but you do need to be science/evidence-based. You need to be open to being wrong.

I went with the consensus as far as I could find it. I would encourage you to post videos of his that demonstrate his left-lean or otherwise demonstrate my supposed error.

His race is irrelevant. There are plenty of black Trump supporters, which makes no fucking sense on July 23, 2020, but here we are.

If I were to guess I'd say he's likely a professional content creator, and that means he depends on views/watches/likes/subscribes/notifications to get paid. That likely means that his content is biased towards his audience. Since you both just happened to be his audience and you invoked him here I would conclude that he most likely doesn't have very many liberal audience members.

There's no way to make sense of this with him being a credible source. You (and apparently he, at least some of the time) claims he is liberal (left). His viewpoints are apparently generally conservative (right) or you likely wouldn't be summoning him here. Substance matters more than talk.

Append:

Bumping this thread to help keep it alive.

On the subject of content creators, I used to be a fan of Sydney Watson. Though she has always been somewhat conservative in politics, being more centrist myself there were several subjects that I agreed with her on years ago.

She is a dual citizen, Australian and American. She was living in Australia when I used to watch her. She seemed intelligent. Then she decided to move to the USA recently... Now she's beyond hope. A full-blown Trump supporter. Doubling down on stupid ideas. I don't notice any trace of intelligence left in her ideas. I think that's really sad.

It's really important for people to remain true. Not to subscribe to any ideology. We're all capable of being completely wrong, and being convinced that we're right. Our entire understanding of the world/universe/existence is based on some rather short-range, imperfect sensory inputs. The rest we pretty much make up as we go along. It's very easy if you close your mind to being wrong to end up believing in some really stupid shit. It takes groups of intelligent people verifying evidence to filter out bad ideas and keep good ones.

Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
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bamccaig said:

His viewpoints are apparently generally conservative (right) or you likely wouldn't be summoning him here.

I'm. Liberal.

I'm pro-LGBT. Anti-war. Pro-immigration. Pro-environment. Pro-weed. I'm pro-wearing masks.

What the !@$! happened to our society. It's like we can't even talk anymore without everyone assuming the absolute worst about you.

Quote:

"Alt-right" isn't even in my vocabulary.

You literally said alt-right in the quoted text! What is happening? Am I on Punk'd?! Did Superman blow up the sun and suck us into bizaro world?!

-----sig:
“Programs should be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute.” - Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs
"Political Correctness is fascism disguised as manners" --George Carlin

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
avatar

I'm. Liberal.

Well you fooled me. ::) Probably because instead of being enraged at the president of the United States for turning America's forces against her own people you're enraged that black people have the audacity to rise up against their oppressors, and in the process a few people have been hurt or killed. Nowhere near as many people as the police and national guard have hurt in those same demonstrations, mind you.

You literally said alt-right in the quoted text! What is happening? Am I on Punk'd?! Did Superman blow up the sun and suck us into bizaro world?!

Sorry for the confusion. I was paraphrasing from RationalWiki:

bamccaig said:

I'm not familiar with Tim Pool, but it sounds like despite claims of being a centrist or liberal he actually sides with the alt-right in America most of the time. It's no surprise then that you both think he's a good source: he agrees with you. Careful that you aren't relying on confirmation bias. :P

Tim Pool (1986–) is a Eurasian American YouTube commentator and former Vice News reporter who describes himself as a "social liberal" and "left-libertarian" who "support(ed) Bernie Sanders, Andrew Yang, and Tulsi Gabbard".[3] Despite this, his content is composed almost exclusively of rebuttal-free alt-right talking points. He is basically one of those "centrists" who somehow always agree with the American Right on most if not all issues. Pool first gained notoriety reporting from the front lines of the Occupy Wall Street protests.

Polybios
Member #12,293
October 2010

bamccaig said:

black people have the audacity to rise up against their oppressors, and in the process a few people have been hurt or killed.

I somehow cannot help to associate an old-fashioned Communist here. You know, the cynical, "it's their fault if they appeared to be on the wrong side of history" kind. ::)

Who is the "oppressor" here? Is it really that black and white simple?

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
avatar

It's really not at all simple or "black and white". It's extremely complicated. There's no boogeyman. There's no one person or group that you can point to responsible for it. That's what makes it systemic.

The oppressors are generally the wealthy people or groups that own and control the governments of the world, and the various agents carrying out their orders. This means aristocrats, politicians, law enforcement, etc.

It also includes everybody that knows (or aught to know) about the oppression and does nothing to stop it. That pretty much includes all of us.

You need to put yourself in the shoes of somebody else. What if you were born somewhere else? None of us get to choose if or when we're born. None of us get to choose where or to whom either. We come alive, and we develop a consciousness, and we're stuck in whatever situation that we're in.

Imagine you are born in the "projects" or "ghetto" of an American city. Los Angeles, New York, Chicago, Detroit, whatever. You are black. You are extremely poor. Your environment is hostile. And no amount of honest, hard work guarantees your success.

Every one of us born into better circumstances that doesn't raise hell to fix it is responsible for enabling it.

If "God" were real, and I were him, there would be no "Hell" in the after life. Instead, I'd reincarnate you as somebody whose life is hell that you could have helped and didn't. >:(

raynebc
Member #11,908
May 2010

Anybody who thinks Tim Pool is alt-right is a dupe. Looks like Bam is of the same mindset as Biden that Democrats own the black people and their vote, or they aren't black. I see the radicals haven't changed while I was gone, they are so far left they can't see what used to be the center of politics anymore. Oh well.

And no, I don't have the time or interest to humor Bam's dumb thought exercises on why he isn't programmed by his choices in media.

RmBeer2
Member #16,660
April 2017
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I'm GOD!

Stop calling me! it bothers me!

Out of joke. I don't agree with anyone or anything, but everyone is happy in their own way, even if their beliefs are a lie. I never understand a word of what they say, if I appear to understand some things, it is only because I am interpreting it as a programming code made by others, they were programmed that way, but I do not know what it is there for, what it is for, or what is its purpose, it only exists and its existence is not worth questioning. If it were only for me I would erase everything, but the others are stubborn and altered for wanting to keep them at all costs.

A clear example is @Chris Katko, she says she is "liberal", but what is being liberal? It is a political connotation, like "LGBT", "war", "immigration", or even other users who speak of BLM, ultralefts, communists, citations of some unknown politician who nobody gives a damn. And all this is what shows how slaves they are even of his ideas that are not even his. Liberal? Free? Debauchery? How much nonsense.

🌈🌈🌈 🌟 Web of BlackRook 🌟 YouTube 🌟 🌈🌈🌈

Rm Beer for President 2020!

Edgar Reynaldo
Major Reynaldo
May 2007
avatar

No raynebc, the Democrats don't 'own' the black vote. It's just that Trump is a racist, and any person of color who supports him is clearly brain dead.

Polybios
Member #12,293
October 2010

bamccaig said:

Every one of us born into better circumstances that doesn't raise hell to fix it is responsible for enabling it.

I don't believe that "raising hell" will fix anything. :P

If it's about poverty, there would be various instruments of education, regulation, and the welfare state to alleviate disadvantages. But some (most) of that would be "socialism" according to US standards.

In a free country, you can only offer opportunities to people but they have to seize them themselves. Maybe you can incentivize a bit.

bamccaig said:

And no amount of honest, hard work guarantees your success.

I'm not so sure about that.

bamccaig said:

The oppressors are generally the wealthy people or groups that own and control the governments of the world, and the various agents carrying out their orders. This means aristocrats, politicians, law enforcement, etc.

Last time I checked, the US was a democracy. I doubt that aristocrats, of all people, are of any relevance here.

raynebc
Member #11,908
May 2010

Edgar, your brand of partisan idiocy is why I am not willing to expend effort to engage you or Bam in honest discussion anymore. You're not willing to reciprocate it. We get demands to suggest some media sources we trust, two of us happen to suggest the same moderate liberal news analyst and Bam immediately goes for the "alt-right" ad hominem attack. Don't consider it a mystery that my patience with the likes of you is shot.

You can offer equal opportunities to people, but people have different capabilities, preferences, circumstances and choices. Equal outcomes cannot happen in a free society because people won't take actions that equalize everybody.

Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
avatar

Sure it's a democracy, but it's like the monopoly version of it.

If you really want to become anything of any relevance outside minor local politics, you have to join the Republican or Democratic party. And if you want to move up the ranks there, you basically have to mostly adhere to the party line. In some very progressive / conservative districts, you can get elected as a representative with some extreme views (e.g., AOC), but you're still basically unable to advance very far in your general party.

This is unless you are independently wealthy and can self-fund. But even that is incredibly difficult, with Mr Trump being one of the few success stories there. (And even with all his money and fame, he still had to join the Republican party to have a real shot, which included changing his stance on a few core issues like abortion.)

The US government has not really turned into a very effective thing. (It's not all bad, and better than most, but still... the super partisan stuff is enough to ultimately destroy it.)

But regarding general opportunity, it's obvious that if two individuals from completely different, unequal backgrounds put same amount of effort that you'll get two different results depending on the advantage one was born over the other. And on the opposite end, there are obviously examples of people who were born into poverty and were able to overcome long odds by a mix of hard work and luck.

But again, systematically and even from an evolutionary point of view, the law of averages are going to win out. The poor people will mostly stay poor. The rich people will mostly stay rich. Some will move from one side to the other for a variety of reasons, but the idea that a little hard work is all a person needs is bogus.

In some ways it's an unsolvable problem, but that shouldn't mean we shouldn't try to equalize the playing field a bit. A healthy amount of socialistic programs does a nation good as long as it isn't to the point to decentivize hard work. And in most areas, the US is a long way from too much socialism despite what the right likes to fret about.

Erin Maus
Member #7,537
July 2006
avatar

I'm an awesome software developer. I've gone from poverty and a month or two from homelessness to comfortably 'mid-upper middle class' (like not quite lawyer/doctor but nearly double the median household income [single person household, too!] here in my city) with how much I make now.

I got lucky. Yes, if I weren't a good developer getting lucky wouldn't have mattered. But I don't have a degree. I came from a town with minimal software development opportunities. There were only two software development companies to intern at when I was looking a couple years ago.

I fought for the internship. Was persistent during a product launch. Got it because I had a lot in common with the lead developer (like RuneScape, funnily enough).

Internship turned into a job. Got lucky to get my job at Allstate in Charlotte. Again, "right place, right time". Same for my new job at Truist. Right place, right time.

There are many who weren't as lucky. A friend who is a better developer than me with good grades and a degree from a good school took months to find a job after they were laid off at the beginning of the pandemic. It took me a month for the Allstate job (between looking and receiving the offer) and a couple weeks for Truist (during the pandemic, mind you). You can't tell me I worked harder than my friend. And that's just one anecdote I have.

And this doesn't even touch on the fact I received SSDI first try without an appeal. That's unheard of. They deny people on life support. Because of SSDI and Medicare, I was able to receive the care (still took nearly three years of med management and therapy!) to start on my journey that led to my "succeeding" in this horrible capitalist system.

Don't think anyone's gonna read this but whatever.

---
ItsyRealm, a quirky 2D/3D RPG where you fight, skill, and explore in a medieval world with horrors unimaginable.
they / them / their

Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
avatar

I'm not posting any more politics because we clearly can't meet (or don't want to meet) at any kind of mutual place where discussion can take place. It's like many groups of people all speaking different languages and living in different worlds yet somehow still using English. There's no point in making you angry so I'll just let you be.

As always, I hope for the best for your lives.

Erin, I hope your transition is going well. :)

-----sig:
“Programs should be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute.” - Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs
"Political Correctness is fascism disguised as manners" --George Carlin

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
avatar

raynebc said:

We get demands to suggest some media sources we trust, two of us happen to suggest the same moderate liberal news analyst and Bam immediately goes for the "alt-right" ad hominem attack. Don't consider it a mystery that my patience with the likes of you is shot.

We didn't "demand" anything. We asked for your news sources as a matter for discussion. You didn't offer them up (unless you both ONLY listen to Tim Pool, which would be really, really stupid).

You both cited the same YouTuber that I was NOT familiar with. Which you both claimed was liberal, IIRC. I Googled him to check on his credability, and came across a seemingly trustworthy assessment of his politics which indicated that despite his own claims he is actually "alt-right" (whatever that means), or generally aligns with the American right. In other words, he appears to be biased.

I've already offered an unbiased news source. If you refuse to use it then I guess you're admitting to bias. You do you. I'm happy for you to stop arguing. You never make sense, throw around insults, and then cry that we aren't playing fair and say you're going to quit and then you keep going. You're like fucking Neil Roy.

raynebc said:

You can offer equal opportunities to people, but people have different capabilities, preferences, circumstances and choices. Equal outcomes cannot happen in a free society because people won't take actions that equalize everybody.

And you believe it's right for some people to suffer due to circumstances beyond their control while others live comfortable, easy, luxurious lives just because they got lucky? I personally think that's a fucking horrible system. And I personally believe the only valid response to that system is anarchy: fuck the laws, they only maintain the status quo so the lucky ones can live happy lives at the expense of the unlucky, regardless of character or merit. No, no, no. Either we're all going to be happy or we're all going to be miserable. >:( >:( >:( Take your pick.

But regarding general opportunity, it's obvious that if two individuals from completely different, unequal backgrounds put same amount of effort that you'll get two different results depending on the advantage one was born over the other. And on the opposite end, there are obviously examples of people who were born into poverty and were able to overcome long odds by a mix of hard work and luck.

But again, systematically and even from an evolutionary point of view, the law of averages are going to win out. The poor people will mostly stay poor. The rich people will mostly stay rich. Some will move from one side to the other for a variety of reasons, but the idea that a little hard work is all a person needs is bogus.

In some ways it's an unsolvable problem, but that shouldn't mean we shouldn't try to equalize the playing field a bit. A healthy amount of socialistic programs does a nation good as long as it isn't to the point to decentivize hard work. And in most areas, the US is a long way from too much socialism despite what the right likes to fret about.

Here, here. I don't have much to say because you pretty much hit all of the points, but I wanted to bring it more attention before it scrolls out of view again.

I don't actually think that people are disincentivized by social assistance. The evidence isn't really there. In a trial for a universal basic income program in Ontario they found the opposite: instead of sitting around collecting free money and doing nothing most people reinvested the money into a better education for a better job, or started their own businesses. The end result is that every dollar given by taxpayers came back several times in economic activity resulting in more taxes paid.

People are not lazy. Generally people are happy to work. What people don't want to do is work a shitty job for poor pay and no benefits. If you pay people fairly and give them reasonable benefits then they're more than happy to work. People ultimately just want to live a happy, healthy life. A lot of people aren't given that option: they have to work 2 or 3 dead-end minimum wage jobs just to stay off of the street. That's not right, and it's not even necessary.

Part of the problem is that we keep replacing human labor with machines, but we don't balance the system to compensate. The same amount of "work" is being done, but fewer people need to work to achieve it. Ideally, that should just translate to everybody having to work less hard. Machines are doing some of the work now. We should get to work easier, and still get paid fully. Instead, what happens is that people end up unemployed or are forced to take really shitty jobs that don't pay enough to provide for their family. The system operates as if it's well thought out and works perfectly, but in reality it's just a shit show where every individual business owner is pretty much free to do whatever they can afford to do. There's no oversight or planning to ensure things are fair and balanced and to ensure that hard work is actually rewarded.

We already have the means to take care of everyone easily and comfortably without everybody having to work hard. Nobody needs to suffer. They only suffer today out of some kind of archaic notion of "hard work" and "earning your keep". Of course, only poor people really need to work hard. The richer you are the easier it is to make money. Even though my income is pretty low for the software industry, it's still a pretty comfortable income for where I live. It took me a while to get to where I am, but from day one I had an advantage over my older brother, and it grew bigger and bigger. The only problem is: he is a much harder worker than I am. If the system actually rewarded hard work he would be much better off than I am, but the reverse is true. He works really hard and barely gets by most of the time, whereas good fortune pretty much falls on my lap most of the time. I think that's bullshit.

"Money" is just a made up concept. In fact, rich people are literally printing money, growing it on trees. If you're rich you can just invest some of the money and it magically grows bigger and bigger. Of course, much of this system is really fake. There aren't enough resources or services on Earth to actually cover all of the "money" that theoretically exists. It's all bullshit. Bullshit that benefits the wealthy while holding the impoverished down.

I'm not posting any more politics because we clearly can't meet (or don't want to meet) at any kind of mutual place where discussion can take place. It's like many groups of people all speaking different languages and living in different worlds yet somehow still using English. There's no point in making you angry so I'll just let you be.

Every time somebody says they're going to quit posting about something divisive they just double down. :P Just save yourself the trouble. You'll likely reply. And it's good for you to. If you never engage in healthy debates you'll never grow. The same is true of myself. As hard as it is to be wrong, I learn from it every time, and I become a better person for it. Prove me wrong. If I'm wrong I certainly want to know it. You just had better be prepared to be wrong yourself.

Erin Maus
Member #7,537
July 2006
avatar

Erin, I hope your transition is going well. :)

It is! :3

I posted the 8 month timeline here: https://www.allegro.cc/forums/thread/615770/1046685#target

Like, I'm finally happy with how I look. First time... ever. In my whole life, and I'm 28...

I don't feel weird dating now, where before I've always had self-image issues that made me feel 'unworthy'. Like I went on a couple dates this past weekend with a couple handsome guys and I didn't think anything negative about myself.

My new job is super supportive which is wonderful! My new manager's first question was what my pronouns are, not what my start date is. :o It's awesome to have such a supportive network of friends and coworkers.

---
ItsyRealm, a quirky 2D/3D RPG where you fight, skill, and explore in a medieval world with horrors unimaginable.
they / them / their

Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
avatar

If you don't mind my asking... how did you decide which pronouns to use?

If I didn't relate to his or her then I feel like I'd make up a new word just because I'm a grammar guy and using "their" to refer to a single entity has always bothered me (e.g., in sentences like "a user must reset their password"). It's almost like fingernails on a chalkboard to me.

But yet, I do truly feel that the minimum amount of respect you can give people is to call them by the names and titles that they prefer.

Erin Maus
Member #7,537
July 2006
avatar

I'm pretty much an open book about my gender identity and sexual orientation. :P

To be fair I'm cool with anything but he/him/his (and it...).

Like they/she (it's what I put on our team bio at my new job) is good, and maybe I'd have chosen xe/xem/xer but I tried to be 'least controversial' without compromising on what 'feels' right to me. So I chose they/them/their and after people using those pronouns for a couple years it just sounds right.

I understand the grammar issue, my brother had the same sort of concerns about they/them/their.

I felt like I was going to face 'oh they're just trying to be special' with xe (or whatever) and 'oh what about grammar' with they, but meh.

---
ItsyRealm, a quirky 2D/3D RPG where you fight, skill, and explore in a medieval world with horrors unimaginable.
they / them / their

raynebc
Member #11,908
May 2010

Matthew, thank you for the thoughtful post. I largely agree with what you said there. Hard work is not the only thing you need to succeed, but it is a factor that greatly influences your success. What you said about needing to maintain the incentive to work is something I particularly endorse, but the problem is that the far-left actually does have a stance that people shouldn't have to work. Some of my far left friends actually have this stance and it disappoints me because I was raised to have and appreciate a strong work ethic. The Democrats previously pushed for and are again pushing for Covid relief payments in a way that some people are paid notably more to not work, and this is ridiculous.

Bam, I skim through aggregates of news from a variety of mainstream news sources and listen to and read centrist and conservative analysis of cultural and political news. The assessment you came up with regarding Pool is bunk, find a better one or drop the ignorant alt-right label. Your news source is in fact not unbiased, such a thing doesn't exist. You support anarchy over equal opportunity and the law and order that protects it. Your brain is poisoned beyond repair.

Edgar Reynaldo
Major Reynaldo
May 2007
avatar

@Erin Maus
I hope those 'guys' you're dating know you're trans. Nobody likes surprises like that and I wouldn't be surprised if it turned to violence if you deceived someone into forming a relationship with you. I know a very attractive trans 'woman' who didn't disclose that fact, and all it leads to is trouble.

@raynebc
Stop speaking for the left as if you were one. You're just as biased against the left as we are against the right. Admit it, you have plenty of bogus opinions about the left, from your brainwashing by the right. People don't want to do nothing except laze around and enjoy the 'riches' of the government. You know what poor people do with their stimulus checks? They spend them on goods and services. You know what all the corporations did with their illegal bailouts? Hoard it, give bonuses to CEOs, lay off workers, etc....

We will never agree because you're freaking deluded about what's right and what's wrong.

Erin Maus
Member #7,537
July 2006
avatar

It says on my dating profile three things very clearly: I'm queer, non-binary, and I started HRT in November 2019. And I don't think I should have to put those things there, I do it because I'm open about who I am.

I'm a little offended that you put guys and woman in quotes...? And 'deceived' is super offensive but I'm not going to spend any time addressing that.

:-/

---
ItsyRealm, a quirky 2D/3D RPG where you fight, skill, and explore in a medieval world with horrors unimaginable.
they / them / their

Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
avatar

A lot of straight men (and women, I assume) would be disgusted with themselves if they found out they fell for "something" they previously thought was an abomination. I would view it as less to do with you, and more to do with their own insecurities. Their world view would be shattered and obviously they would blame deception on that, as opposed to revising their views on sexual orientation.

However, that said, even though it would be no fault of your own, I could definitely see some crazy person getting violent due to that. So even if it's not listed on a profile, it's something I'd bring up (as soon as you know) if it's a relationship you ultimately wanted to pursue.

raynebc said:

The Democrats previously pushed for and are again pushing for Covid relief payments in a way that some people are paid notably more to not work, and this is ridiculous.


I agree it's ridiculous, but really for a different reason than I assume you mean. It's ridiculous that adults working 40 hours/week make so little money that they can barely survive, especially when they are working for billion dollar companies. So little money that unemployment + $600 is more than they make if they work hard.

That said, it's not the responsibility of COVID19 relief to right that wrong! So there should have been a stipulation that you cannot make more than 100% of your prior salary. However, I get that would be difficult to enforce and calculate on short order, so they ran with what they could do quickly.

I do sincerely believe that most people would rather work for their money than do nothing --- and those that do not feel that way probably shouldn't be working. :P But if it's make more money doing nothing than working hard at a sucky job, then well, even I'd bite.

But really, you cannot instill a work ethic into an adult by simply refusing all social services. It just doesn't work. They'll either turn into criminals or mooch off of friends and family and strangers. So you really are better off as a society giving away the bare minimum necessities (cheap housing / food) to live. Anybody with an ounce of self-respect will do their hardest to avoid that life; anybody that doesn't care is highly unlikely to ever be useful to society... and you might as well keep them off the streets where you'll spend more resources on police enforcement.

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