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Thread locks too soon
Edgar Reynaldo
Member #8,592
May 2007
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bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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Eric Johnson
Member #14,841
January 2013
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Who was that directed toward, Edgar?

Edgar Reynaldo
Member #8,592
May 2007
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Oh, that was not directed towards anyone. I was just posting a word I liked. But apparently that didn't titillate bambams enough.

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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Edgar Reynaldo
Member #8,592
May 2007
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Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
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Quit niggling.

-----sig:
“Programs should be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute.” - Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs
"Political Correctness is fascism disguised as manners" --George Carlin

Edgar Reynaldo
Member #8,592
May 2007
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Aaron Bolyard
Member #7,537
July 2006
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Car question:

There's a periodic scraping noise coming from the front passenger tire. It stops when I apply even a little pressure to the brakes. The sound doesn't change with speed as far as I can tell. It doesn't always make the sounds. The sound is unaffected by turning and doesn't happen if I'm completely stopped.

What could it be?

I'm driving up to DC Friday and have work / school tomorrow so I'm kinda in a bind regarding getting it checked out.

If it helps I recently had the tires replaced.

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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I'm not a mechanic. I'm not even very mechanical.

This sounds like one of your brake pads is occasionally making contact with the disc. That can happen if the piston sticks and doesn't fully release the pads, or if your disc is warped. It's probably harmless (but I'm not a mechanic).

Site note: Warmart's garage is usually pretty quick. I wouldn't say they're the best garage out there, but at least they're represented by a large corporation so it's in their best interested to make you happy over getting bad press. It probably wouldn't cost much if you brought it to them and just asked them to take a look. They should be able to tell you if anything serious is wrong, and in my experience they've always been very good about giving me options before just doing something. And they probably have the cheapest options around. Of course, you get what you pay for. But probably they'll say it's not a big deal.

You'll likely have fair warning before it becomes a problem that is dangerous. But you never can know short of getting an expert to look at it, and even then no guarantees...

Aaron Bolyard
Member #7,537
July 2006
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I'll find time to take it to my mechanic even if it means skipping a class. (Gosh I hate to do that).

It sounds just like when my brother's disc brakes on his bicycle are misaligned. Except louder.

Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
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There's a periodic scraping noise coming from the front passenger tire.

Did it rain? :P Has the car been sitting still while it rained?

Rust built up on one part of the rotor and keeps skipping against the disk and will be cleaned quickly.

-----sig:
“Programs should be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute.” - Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs
"Political Correctness is fascism disguised as manners" --George Carlin

NiteHackr
Member #2,229
April 2002
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How about some 4K Command and Conquer: Red Alert?

Funny you should mention that. EA just got the former devs of the original C&C to remaster it! Very kewl!

https://www.techspot.com/news/77436-ea-turns-former-westwood-devs-4k-command-conquer.html

TurboJudas
Member #7,039
March 2006
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Hi guys! I always liked Allegro and C so I've been wanting to come back to allegro a few times over the decades, but this strange forum setup has turned me off every time, it ruins everything, it physically hurts to look att only four threads at a time. :'( Are there no settings or something I can do to see all posts 'like you're supposed to do'?

Btw. Does it matter if I would use Allegro 4 or 5 for some really simple 2D games? Which one is easier to set up? I'm more of a tinkerer or 'game creator' than a programmer so I remember having problems setting it up (a long time ago).

Cheers! :)

Edgar Reynaldo
Member #8,592
May 2007
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I've been wanting to come back to allegro a few times over the decades, but this strange forum setup has turned me off every time, it ruins everything, it physically hurts to look att only four threads at a time. :'( Are there no settings or something I can do to see all posts 'like you're supposed to do'?

No, there are no nice ways to navigate this forum's shady past.

https://www.allegro.cc/forums/recent

is where most people spend their time here.

However, when I go to Programming Forums, I see a whole month of threads :

{"name":"611761","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/1\/4\/144d9778105338617c41128f93ba3a4d.png","w":1920,"h":1080,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/1\/4\/144d9778105338617c41128f93ba3a4d"}611761

Click on the 'showing recent threads' button, and it will give you a drop down list of ways to filter the results. You can see a month at a time.

Btw. Does it matter if I would use Allegro 4 or 5 for some really simple 2D games? Which one is easier to set up? I'm more of a tinkerer or 'game creator' than a programmer so I remember having problems setting it up (a long time ago).

If you use binaries its relatively painless. I provide binaries for Allegro 4 and 5 (see my sig) and SiegeLord provides binaries for 5 using a slightly different toolchain. As well, if you use MSVS, you can download Allegro 5 as a Nugat package, which makes it easy.

EDIT

Edgar said:

I feel like I am tying my ankle to my butt when I code in C. Having to hop around on one foot when I have two perfectly good feet.

Anyone feel like a nice C vs C++ flamewar? I need something to keep me warm in the winter.

GullRaDriel
Member #3,861
September 2003
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C++ sucks so hard it should be prostituted.

<;-)

"Code is like shit - it only smells if it is not yours"
Allegro Wiki, full of examples and articles !!

Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
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C++ really is horrific. Design-by-committee gone off the rails. I don't know any expert who says C++ is heading in the right direction. I heard one expert say:

Quote:

People who understand all of C++:

1) Herb Stutter

2)

Basically, C++ has committees and each committee person has "their baby" and that's all they understand and care about. And, even if you have an amazing solution, without a committee person to push it forward, it's dead in the water.

They also blatantly rip off from D without even having the decency to mention D. They literally stole a D source code example and put in one of their proposals. No mention of where it came from.

Nice guys.

D has plenty of gotchas and confusing decisions, but overall, the experience is so much easier and a more productive use of my time for my game projects.

C# is a thousand times better for GUI applications.

And game engines exist, though I have no experience on their effectiveness. While I'd love to spend my time making game DESIGNS instead of programming them, my game projects tend to be unique and game engines are better suited for games that have already been made ("Oh look, another platformer on Steam!"). For example, try to make Factorio in Unity and you'd be better off punching yourself in the balls as it struggles to run tens of thousands (or hundreds of thousands) of scripted objects every frame.

-----sig:
“Programs should be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute.” - Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs
"Political Correctness is fascism disguised as manners" --George Carlin

raynebc
Member #11,908
May 2010

C is super easy to use. The last time I looked into learning C++ I was put off pretty quickly by needless complexity.

Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
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I would recommend learning at least the basics/advanced aspects of languages like C++ (or D) because they expose you to higher-levels of thinking.

Not, higher, as necessarily "omg, you're dumb if you don't use it." but languages are implemented ways of solving problems, and the more ways you know how to look at and solve a problem, the better. The more tools in your tool bag, you may know when to pull out a rarer, more specialized tool that saves you time.

-----sig:
“Programs should be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute.” - Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs
"Political Correctness is fascism disguised as manners" --George Carlin

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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Learning the basics of C++ is easy. Mastering C++ is almost impossible. A few have made a lucrative career of it, but it's too late to be thinking that way now. Those days are long past unless you find an existing codebase that needs maintaining, and believe me you will be earning every dollar so it won't come cheap... Probably the only thing interesting about C++ in 2018 is that nothing has really come along to fully replace it in 30+ years.

D pretty much put itself out internally before it ever got started. Now it's basically a failed project that can only serve as an example of what not to do. There are some good things to take away from the language, but a lot of bad things to take away from the implementation.

Go is pretty wishy-washy. If anybody could create a C++ killer it would be Google, right? And yet, it's also basically a dead project outside of Google.

What seems to be winning the overall software development spectrum these days is Python. It's far from the metal, it's very much neutered in terms of syntactic sugar, and there's a lot of mistakes in the core language. What it has accomplished is a backlog of stable libraries to build on similar to Perl, but without countless ways to say the same thing. And even when there is more than one way to say a thing, the community tries to agree on the best way conventionally to say it. It's far from perfect, but it seems to be the current big thing. It's probably not ideal for games, though there are Allegro 5 bindings supplied by Elias, and there's PyGame for the hip crowd. And there are opportunities for binding Python to C if you need a fast core behind a dynamic platform.

C vs C++ debates are no longer interesting in 2018. They're both too far outdated. They're ancient relics. What little they gain in updates are too little too late. C remains the ideal system language because it's tried, tested, and simple. It lacks a LOT in expressiveness which means you'll be repeating yourself a fucking lot unfortunately, but it works. C++ is a brainfuck to even understand fully because of it's complexity and many design errors, let alone to interoperate with binaries because of lack of standardization there. If we had a better option than C we'd take it in a heartbeat, but unfortunately attempts have failed in various ways. It's not that C is perfect, but that it has apparently been close enough that nobody has figured out how to do it better.

C++ is better than C in a few ways, but it's worse in enough ways to negate those. At best, it would be a tie, but it probably doesn't even get that much. A subset of C++ might be better than C, and perhaps that would be the ultimate C killer these days: somebody define a C-- that is a subset of C++ that cuts out the bad, keeps the good, and incrementally improves upon C. But that's probably too abstract to be a real possibility. I think C++ is as complex as it is because it needed to be.

We can have a language flamewar, but we won't be limiting it to C and C++. This is 2018. Those are fossils.

Append:

To date, the most elegant language I have learned is Lisp. There is a bit of an overhead from parenthesis, but tools can pretty much handle that for us. The parenthesis are also key to the elegance. The huge disappointment there is that efforts have been so fragmented that there is no productive community to back it and produce reusable code as is required for a language today to thrive (another huge failing of C and C++ is that there was never a central store of useful reusable code, or a standard mechanism to reuse it). I would still really love to see the Lisp communities band together and create a super-Lisp that could rival Python in utility and popularity. But perhaps that's destined to never expand beyond my dreams.

Append:

I'll just leave this here to be ignored:

video

Edgar Reynaldo
Member #8,592
May 2007
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bamccaig said:

To date, the most elegant language I have learned is Lisp. There is a bit of an overhead from parenthesis, but tools can pretty much handle that for us. The parenthesis are also key to the elegance. The huge disappointment there is that efforts have been so fragmented that there is no productive community to back it and produce reusable code as is required for a language today to thrive (another huge failing of C and C++ is that there was never a central store of useful reusable code, or a standard mechanism to reuse it). I would still really love to see the Lisp communities band together and create a super-Lisp that could rival Python in utility and popularity. But perhaps that's destined to never expand beyond my dreams.

Lisp? Are you kidding me? You honestly want to write programs that consist of CAR, CDR, and CONS all day? Barf. Not everything was made to be done recursively on a list. Gimme a break man.

Python is nice for the relaxed typing but that can also bite you pretty quickly when you pass a lot of parameters.

D is okay, but the compiler messages are cryptic and often have nothing to do with whats wrong.

Java is OOP on crack.

C# is like Java but better.

Kotlin is really nice high level language, but too bad it runs on the JVM.

So yeah, give me C++. It lets me do pretty much anything I want. Except Kotlin's lambdas are SO MUCH NICER than C++'s horrible afterthought in that department.

The whole Boost split really killed C++. Elitists used Boost. Purists refrained. The standard barely moved in a decade or two and now all of a sudden there's C++20? With all kinds of crazy things added in.

But C, C has always just remained. It's really kind of timeless. Too slow for me to get much done, but definitely worth knowing and using when appropriate.

Eric Johnson
Member #14,841
January 2013
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Java is OOP on crack.

I absolutely despise Java. It's way, way too verbose, is a memory hog, and seems redundant if you are already familiar with C/C++. I dreaded all of my Java courses in college. >:(

Edgar Reynaldo
Member #8,592
May 2007
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Java actually did some things right. extends and implements were done properly. No more multiple inheritance nightmares, because you can only extend one class, but you can implement as many interfaces as you need. Which is where they failed, making a million and one classes for simple things like events and listeners.

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
avatar

Lisp? Are you kidding me? You honestly want to write programs that consist of CAR, CDR, and CONS all day?

No, and you don't have to. Those are low-level mechanisms. When you need then they're there. Some dialects have renamed or aliased them "first" and "rest" instead to make it less cryptic, but if you used it regularly your brain would map it so you never had to think about it (already it's pretty much mapped for both of us probably). Some dialects also have nth that effectively indexes the list (though (car list) would be more efficient than (nth list 1) or whatever.

Not everything was made to be done recursively on a list. Gimme a break man.

Many Lisp dialects have imperative loops too. You can do everything in Lisp that you can do in any other language. They don't need to be pure-functional, and not everything has to be a list. The elegance comes from the syntax too. The fact that macros have the same expressability as the language.

Lisp also does OO/"message passing" much better than most languages I find. It's not object.method(parameters...), but rather it's like (method object parameters). For example, (speak duck) and (speak voice_engine "hello"). The code is completely unrelated, but the language doesn't care.

Lisp also originated a ton of other really neat and useful features, much of it that still hasn't been adopted by other languages. The way that Lisp handles errors/exceptions is really neat, for example.

I read about a satellite or unmanned vehicle or something that was programmed in Lisp (my memory says it was real, but there's a chance it was a hypothetical fiction, but interesting either way), and a bug caused the program to fail in an unexpected way in space. Instead of just locking up or crashing or misbehaving, the program waited for a user to debug the problem. Because the program was entirely dynamic, engineers on Earth were able to connect, inspect the state of the program (obviously taking minutes or hours for keystrokes to even reach it), and rewrite the program live without ever exiting the process to continue the mission. It wouldn't have been possible to do this with any other technology (at least, without stopping and restarting a modified program).

There is so much elegance to Lisp that no other language has. C is not elegant at all. If you dig into the system headers you pretty much barf. C++ is even worse. C# is half decent, but mostly we're just so used to C-like that it's like second nature to us now. But is it really elegant? Not really. It works, and it works well, and it's reasonably easy to read and write. But it's not elegant. And the parts of it that are elegant are inherited from functional languages: much of the C# designers are Haskell geeks.

Append:

Also, my wife showed me this today which is fucking hilarious and demonstrates the absurdity of SJWs:

video

Append:

And you know how the rabbit hole goes...

video

NiteHackr
Member #2,229
April 2002
avatar

raynebc said:

C is super easy to use. The last time I looked into learning C++ I was put off pretty quickly by needless complexity.

I'm the same. I stick to C. There are some aspects of C++ that I liked, but I found I could recreate the same functionality in C, and it was much simpler and faster.

But C, C has always just remained. It's really kind of timeless. Too slow for me to get much done, but definitely worth knowing and using when appropriate.

Too slow? I've heard a lot of criticisms about C, but never has it been referred to as too slow. The only thing faster is machine language.

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