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raynebc
Member #11,908
May 2010

If anything, writing HTML is closer to scripting than it is programming. You're providing instructions to a program instead of writing a standalone program.

NiteHackr
Member #2,229
April 2002
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Watch this, he makes a good point that HTML is a programming language, albeit a very restrictive one. :)

video

Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
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Oh. My gosh. How is this even debatable?

"HTML is a markup language"

https://www.wikiwand.com/simple/Markup_language

"A markup language is a computer language. It is made up of a set of instructions, and of data. It is not the same as a programming language, as only programming languages can have if statements and other conditional statements.[1] The first markup languages were used for printing; there was the text, and there were instructions how the text should be printed. The source code is generally done in ASCII. Then there are tags. That way, LaTeX (and with that, Wikipedia), uses the instruction \mu to get the symbol \mu, the Greek letter "Mu". HTML uses µ to get the same symbol."

Is HTML (no CSS) turing complete? No.

Quote:

Data languages
The notion of Turing-completeness does not apply to languages such as XML, HTML, JSON, YAML and S-expressions, because they are typically used to represent structured data, not describe computation. These are sometimes referred to as markup languages, or more properly as "container languages" or "data description languages".[citation needed] However, Rule 110, a Turing-complete cellular automaton, has been successfully implemented in CSS 3, thus proving, to some extent, its Turing completeness.[11]

https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Turing_completeness

I mean I get it. If you really blur the lines and only look at definitions, you might be able to make the case that HTML is "programming." But then so is filing out a config file.

But again, devil's advocate, Verilog and VDHL are absolutely programming but they're technically "hardware description languages". You specify what you want. But you'd be hard pressed to make anything useful in Verilog or VDHL without a college degree in computer hardware.

-----sig:
“Programs should be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute.” - Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs
"Political Correctness is fascism disguised as manners" --George Carlin

NiteHackr
Member #2,229
April 2002
avatar

Baiting can be so much fun when done back at people... how does it feel?

{"name":"611718","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/0\/4\/04437fb502ab9a610430fe8601f552ae.jpg","w":625,"h":324,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/0\/4\/04437fb502ab9a610430fe8601f552ae"}611718

As I already stated, I agree, HTML is a scripting language more than anything, but it is interesting to bait people like bambam back!!! :)

How does it feel?! 8-) ;D

Edgar Reynaldo
Member #8,592
May 2007
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I think you're secretly hiding the fact that deep down underneath it all, you feel like a real programmer when you write HTML. Because everything else is too hard. ;) I actually believe what you say. :O

If I program a GUI to behave like HTML, is it still programming? ???

NiteHackr
Member #2,229
April 2002
avatar

Well, in a sense... using Java with HTML (or Javascript, I get the two confused) is sort of like using Allegro with C... so maybe HTML really is a programming language? Hmmmmm ;D

On a lighter note, I was just told this joke by a friend I have to share, I laughed so hard... ;)

Quote:

Joe wanted to buy a Harley motorcycle. He doesn't have much luck, until one day, he comes across a Harley with a 'for sale' sign on it.

The bike looks better than a new one, although it is 10 years old. It's shiny and in mint condition.

He buys it and asks the seller how he kept it in such great condition for 10 years.

'Well, it's quite simple,' says the seller, 'whenever the bike is outside and it's gonna rain, rub Vaseline on the chrome.It protects it from the rain, and he
hands Joe a jar of Vaseline.

That night, his girlfriend, Sandra, invites him over to meet her parents.
Naturally, they take the bike there.

Just before they enter the house, Sandra stops him and says, 'I have to
tell you something about my family.

'When we eat dinner, we don't talk.

In fact, the FIRST person who says anything during dinner has to do the dishes.'

'No problem,' he says.. And in they go.

Joe is shocked.Right in the middle of the living room is a huge stack of dirty dishes.

In the kitchen is another huge stack of dishes. Piled up on the stairs, in the corridor, everywhere he looks dirty dishes.

They sit down to dinner, and sure enough, no one says a word.

As dinner progresses, Joe decides to take advantage of the situation.

He leans over and kisses Sandra.

No one says a word.

He reaches over and fondles her breasts. Nobody says a word.

So he stands up, grabs her, rips her clothes off, throws her on the table
and screws her, right there in front of her parents.

His girlfriend is a little flustered, her dad is obviously livid and her mom horrified when he sits back down, but no one says a word.

He looks at her mom. She's got a great body too.

Joe grabs mom, bends her over the table, pulls down her panties, and screws her every which way but loose
right there on the dinner table.

She has a big orgasm, & Joe sits down.

His girlfriend is furious, her dad is boiling, & Mom is beaming from ear to ear. But still ... . Total silence.

All of a sudden there is a loud clap of thunder, and it starts to rain.

Joe remembers his bike, so he pulls the jar of Vaseline from his pocket.

Suddenly the father shouts.
I'll do the fuckin’ dishes!!

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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Eric Johnson
Member #14,841
January 2013
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;D That's a good joke!

Bruce Perry
Member #270
April 2000

Moral: if you're a girl trying to choose a boy, don't trust one with a motorbike?

I recently got introduced to Loriot, as famous in Germany as Monty Python or Mr Bean are in the UK. Even if you don't speak German, give this a chance. ;) (It's an attempt to tell a story involving English names of places and people.)

video

--
Bruce "entheh" Perry [ Web site | DUMB | Set Up Us The Bomb !!! | Balls ]
Programming should be fun. That's why I hate C and C++.
The brxybrytl has you.

Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
avatar

This guy is pretty funny:

video

video

-----sig:
“Programs should be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute.” - Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs
"Political Correctness is fascism disguised as manners" --George Carlin

Aaron Bolyard
Member #7,537
July 2006
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My last commit resulted in -100 lines of code. Refactoring feels so good. 8-)

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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Back when we were using Mercurial I used to have a custom command that evaluated your quality of commits by lines added versus removed or something along those lines. The difference in lines is I think how it was scored: if you added lines it was bad, and if you overall removed lines it was good. I scored quite well compared to my colleagues (who never knew I was doing that). I never cheated the system to score well. It was just the way that I prefer to code. >:(

I haven't bothered to do it for Git. Though in theory it shouldn't matter much, we do squash merges so if I have 10 commits for my topic branch it ends up all in one commit. The measuring technique is probably still applicable (if not moreso) though, but it doesn't feel right for some reason. It's also possible that Mercurial's engine made it easier to calculate this, though at the moment I cannot fathom how or why that would be (mind you, I'm running on 4 hours of sleep). I think I just counted lines in the diff and summarized the results. Another factor that makes it less useful is that I've submitted to management to make my job less stressful and so I often duplicate code rather than refactor because the people in charge think that's better and it's not worth arguing with them.

Eric Johnson
Member #14,841
January 2013
avatar

Refactoring is always a good idea, but you shouldn't get overzealous and let the line count hold you back from actually writing good code. Sometimes good code adds more lines than it cuts back on, even if that skews the code quality measurement. I've heard stories of some companies going so far as to reward programmers with bonuses based on how many lines they write. This resulted in code where simple statements were stretched across multiple lines just to boost the line count, and in turn, their bonuses.

So I've had this issue with my car where the air sometimes cuts out when I hit a bump in the road. It's become progressively worse this year, to the point where it doesn't work 95% of the time. I had the blower motor replaced almost two years ago, and the A/C controller unit replaced about a year ago, so I've figured it's just been a loose connection somewhere, but haven't had the time to really take a look. But today my dad took a look and found the loose connection in a series of wires near the blower motor. He more or less scrunched the wires closer together, and now my air comes on again. A more permanent solution will be needed later, but this works for now.

NiteHackr
Member #2,229
April 2002
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Programmer's humour: Why do programmers think OCT 31 and DEC 25 are the same day?

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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You kind of spoil the joke when you tell it like that (and also, SUPER OLD!). You should have said Halloween and Christmas instead to obscure the punchline. But also, I'm sure all of us have seen that 10 times already (except for maybe the one active noob).

Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
avatar

October is just a social construct. ::)

-----sig:
“Programs should be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute.” - Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs
"Political Correctness is fascism disguised as manners" --George Carlin

Edgar Reynaldo
Member #8,592
May 2007
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MiquelFire
Member #3,110
January 2003
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I got it!

3 + 8 = 11

---
Febreze (and other air fresheners actually) is just below perfumes/colognes, and that's just below dead skunks in terms of smells that offend my nose.
MiquelFire.red | +Me
Windows 8 is a toned, stylish, polished professional athlete. But it’s wearing clown makeup, and that creates a serious image problem. ~PCWorld Article

raynebc
Member #11,908
May 2010

If there are going to be hidden base changes, there can be hidden boolean operations too. Let's kick up the difficulty a notch:
(11b + 1000b) & 11b == 11b

Edgar Reynaldo
Member #8,592
May 2007
avatar

NiteHackr
Member #2,229
April 2002
avatar

Just TRYING to insert something less controversial in here... leave it to bambam to be critical. Yeah, it was an oldy, came up on one of my old facebook posts. :) I do like your idea of rewording it like you said, I may do that in the future on facebook. My non-programmer friends were stumped by this though.

In other OLD humour (don't look bambam), this always makes me burst out laughing...

video

Stop oppressing me!

In the newest World of Warcraft expansion (Battle for Azeroth), in typical Blizzard style, if you keep clicking on a Kul Tiran character (Alliance) in the game, most of them will yell out "Help, I'm being oppressed!" ;D

Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
avatar

NiteHackr said:

In the newest World of Warcraft expansion (Battle for Azeroth), in typical Blizzard style, if you keep clicking on a Kul Tiran character (Alliance) in the game, most of them will yell out "Help, I'm being oppressed!" ;D

That's actually from Warcraft 2, which referenced Monty Python's Holy Grail!

Here's Warcraft 3:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoMhMZZjbGg

"You're the king?"
"Well, I didn't vote for 'em"
"Help, help, I'm being repressed."

I haven't found the exact clip online for WC2. Kind of a niche thing to post...

-----sig:
“Programs should be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute.” - Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs
"Political Correctness is fascism disguised as manners" --George Carlin

NiteHackr
Member #2,229
April 2002
avatar

Nice! I got a kick out of it. In all of Blizzard's games, if you click on a character more than five times consecutively, they will start saying new things, usually they have 3 or 4 more things.

The female Night Elves in WoW for example, most will say several things like, "weren't you leaving" and ending with "You wouldn't like me when I'm angry" (a reference to the incredible hulk and the fact they are mostly druids and can change into nasty forms).

In Starcraft, there was a science vessel I think it was where the voice sounds a lot like that of Monty Burns from Simpsons; if you kept clicking on him, he will say "I like the cut of your jib!" eventually. In the various Warcraft games if you keep clicking on the Horde Peons, they will say things like "stop it!" and eventually "Me not that kind of Orc!" :)

It's one of the first things I do in any WoW expansion, I will go around clicking until I hear some of the new dialog. On the main female you meet when you first go to Boralus (Alliance), if you keep clicking on the one that is guiding you around, she will start giggling, she is ticklish and it gets quit funny some of what she says.

Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
avatar

I LOVED THE SCIENCE VESSEL!

-----sig:
“Programs should be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute.” - Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs
"Political Correctness is fascism disguised as manners" --George Carlin

Edgar Reynaldo
Member #8,592
May 2007
avatar

{"name":"science.jpg","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/5\/3\/53817aa38cffd1e7c7146397484748cb.jpg","w":500,"h":389,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/5\/3\/53817aa38cffd1e7c7146397484748cb"}science.jpg

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