Allegro.cc - Online Community
Post Reply

Allegro.cc Forums » Allegro.cc Comments » Thread locks too soon

rss feed Print
Thread locks too soon
bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
avatar

Neil Roy said:

It's completely irrational to expect I should be able to run MY COMPANY the way I WANT IT?! Since when? You're braindead!!! >:(

If the company exists in MY city or in MY province or in MY country then it must operate under our laws. The economy must benefit society for a society to thrive. That means that the companies must benefit society. So no, you cannot run your company the way you want unless you abide by our laws which are set up to protect workers from abuses of power from employers. That means companies must take good care of their workers.

A trade union gives the workers the leverage they need to demand good treatment. And that's why the laws permit trade unions.

It would be a whole lot more profitable for the company to pay dirt, skip on safety equipment and training, and offer no benefits or vacation time. But it would be a terrible life for the workers and their families, and society would suffer as a result. If anything we need more unions. The rich get richer while the poor get poorer. Obviously the poor haven't got enough leverage yet.

Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
avatar

I think any company that NEEDS a union to force it to treat its workers with respect, is a bad company that will constantly be trying to undermine the union. Any company that sees "human" resources as a threat, and not an asset, is a toxic company.

However, ideal vs reality, are often not the same thing.

Likewise, unions DEFINITELY work in industries with lots of contractors where there's no "I see you every day" kind of human biology at play. People come and go and it's easier-than-not to treat people like commodities. The voice acting industry became unionized and it has GREATLY improved work conditions (safety/health, hours worked in a row, pay structures) and the quality of work as well. This is all from the voice of Duke Nukem himself:

video

I think basic, minimum work conditions should be regulated, at the federal level. Why should the government protect us from robbers with guns, but not bosses employing people? (see Wage Theft) Seems pretty reasonable.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wage_theft

And another thing with that whole "people own the means of production." People. PEOPLE? Not person, but PEOPLE?! When have you ever had a group of ten people (even five) agree on ANYTHING? Basically every good, amazing thing, we have, has come from one super-driven person and a bunch of people associating and helping that one person. Engineer 13022-B didn't get to tell Steve Jobs jack crap on whether or not to build the iPhone. Steve Jobs said "make it" and it got made. The engineers, designers, etc were all instrumental, but they weren't leading the thing. Can you imagine an entire society "designed by committee"? :o That means people who have no real "drive" or passion, or even experience, get equal votes on how a factory should function? That means do-nothings will spend their time debating and vying for power instead of actually working. ... And isn't that's what happened in every communist country?

I mean, god, dare to look at Twitter or YouTube comments to see that not everyone equally deserves a voice. Any time you let random people talk with no barrier-to-entry, it becomes full of monsters. Those same toxic people... also try to run companies and governments. They don't just magically keep their sadism on chat platforms.

-----sig:
“Programs should be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute.” - Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs
"Political Correctness is fascism disguised as manners" --George Carlin

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
avatar

I think any company that NEEDS a union to force it to treat its workers with respect, is a bad company that will constantly be trying to undermine the union. Any company that sees "human" resources as a threat, and not an asset, is a toxic company.

You just described every for-profit company ever, except for maybe a couple of mom and pop stores with only a couple of employees paying minimum wage out of necessity instead of greed. :P

Only to nitpick, they don't see human resources as a threat. They see them as tools/machines. Rather than just trying to give everyone fair compensation because we're PEOPLE, they all believe that it's their job to give their employees as little compensation as possible. So if the company is making millions in profits and there's plenty to spread around they'll instead line their own pockets while playing mind games with the employees.

And companies do constantly try to undermine unions. Which is why the unions exist in the first place. If the company treated its employees great by default the unions never would have formed.

I think basic, minimum work conditions should be regulated, at the federal level. Why should the government protect us from robbers with guns, but not bosses employing people?

Which they are, at least in Canada. The problem is the minimum is too little to comfortably survive on. The minimum is not defined as a man taking care of his family. The minimum is a wife or daughter picking up a bit of extra shopping money on the side.

And another thing with that whole "people own the means of production." People. PEOPLE? Not person, but PEOPLE?! When have you ever had a group of ten people (even five) agree on ANYTHING? Basically every good, amazing thing, we have, has come from one super-driven person and a bunch of people associating and helping that one person. Engineer 13022-B didn't get to tell Steve Jobs jack crap on whether or not to build the iPhone. Steve Jobs said "make it" and it got made. The engineers, designers, etc were all instrumental, but they weren't leading the thing. Can you imagine an entire society "designed by committee"? :o That means people who have no real "drive" or passion, or even experience, get equal votes on how a factory should function? That means do-nothings will spend their time debating and vying for power instead of actually working. ... And isn't that's what happened in every communist country?

That's the point of the collective! If one person makes the decisions and that one person is bad, biased, corrupt or self-serving (almost guaranteed to be at least one) then all you have are bad decisions. If the entire group is making decisions then fewer errors should occur because there will be more people with different strengths and weaknesses. More good ideas will be generated and more bad ideas will be rejected. All of the best work is done by a collective. It just looks like individuals like Steve Jobs were responsible because they take credit for the people beneath them!

The problem is assuming that people need to be managed at all. Don't people just want to do a good job? Does anybody show up to a job they choose to be at and not try to do a good job? The only people that need to be managed are people that are forced to do work that cannot be easily done well. Basically the jobs that should either be eliminated because they're not actually needed (just grinding to justify paying them), or should be performed by machines.

WE ARE THE BORG. YOU WILL BE ASSIMILATED. RESISTANCE IS FUTILE.

Edgar Reynaldo
Member #8,592
May 2007
avatar

Peter Hull
Member #1,136
March 2001

Has anyone played surviv.io?

NiteHackr
Member #2,229
April 2002
avatar

This is so true! ;)
{"name":"611673","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/5\/5\/55459ef40bba26722f761c9192b33119.jpg","w":480,"h":346,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/5\/5\/55459ef40bba26722f761c9192b33119"}611673

Has anyone played surviv.io?

Never heard of it.

dthompson
Member #5,749
April 2005
avatar

Two-day gap... careful now fellas

Edit or not. Timezone confusion!

______________________________________________________
Website | Where my website used to be
This isn't a game!

Edgar Reynaldo
Member #8,592
May 2007
avatar

I think this thread is getting sleepy. I think it needs a Jiggly Puff.

{"name":"maxresdefault.jpg","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/e\/4\/e4db4ff5510ca214c320cd83d071bc75.jpg","w":1280,"h":720,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/e\/4\/e4db4ff5510ca214c320cd83d071bc75"}maxresdefault.jpg

Oh wait, I was thinking of a Snorallax.

GullRaDriel
Member #3,861
September 2003
avatar

That thread was in need of some new subject. How about we discuss the new trending clothing for MAGA supporters ?

{"name":"Dj2f0ptUwAAyMGr.jpg","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/5\/3\/53daf949eba6935b2e47c917bfff6d7f.jpg","w":960,"h":720,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/5\/3\/53daf949eba6935b2e47c917bfff6d7f"}Dj2f0ptUwAAyMGr.jpg
(from https://twitter.com/stealthygeek/status/1026152030765756416)

8-)

Edit: I, BTW, do not support them, not even by a nail. One must be stupid and have forgot his own country history to dare wearing such a silly shirt :-)

"Code is like shit - it only smells if it is not yours"
Allegro Wiki, full of examples and articles !!

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
avatar

Has anyone played surviv.io?

It doesn't seem to work properly in Firefox-ish. Plays OK in Chrome, but goddamn if I can last past 40. It's too damn hard. I don't have that kind of time. But super neat for a free Web game.

NiteHackr
Member #2,229
April 2002
avatar

That thread was in need of some new subject.

Nothing new about that subject. Same old bullshit attacks against Trump supporters.

611678

Edgar Reynaldo
Member #8,592
May 2007
avatar

Neil Roy said:

Nothing new about that subject. Same old attacks against Trump supporters.

Yes, because dumb ass Trump supporters endorsing the Kremlin is beyond ironic.
Yes, because Trump is trying to cover up his sons involvement with Russians.
Yes, because the Russians interfered with our national elections.
Yes, because Trump is trying to cover it all up by firing Rod Rosenstein and Bob Mueller.

It's a sad state of affairs when you get tired of caring about the truth.

MAGA!!!![1]

References

  1. Make Allegro Great Again!
GullRaDriel
Member #3,861
September 2003
avatar

Neil: It's not that old, only a few weeks old ^^

Edgar: I second !

;D

"Code is like shit - it only smells if it is not yours"
Allegro Wiki, full of examples and articles !!

Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
avatar

It is kinda funny how the communist allied Democrats are... worried about Russian intervention. Maybe because they're the ones colluding? ;D ;D ;D

Quote:

My comrade was shot in the back of the head by @PortlandPolice today. He was hit with the very first flash bang the cops shot. Make no mistake this was an act of aggression and there will be hell to pay @tedwheeler #defendpdx #AllOutPDX

Quote:

The two then walk outside to find a crowd yelling, “1, 2, 3, f*ck the bourgeoisie!”

Here they are chanting that... to kick a black woman out of a restaurant.

https://thefederalist.com/2018/08/06/antifa-protesters-drive-candace-owens-out-of-philly-restaurant-video/

Amazing how the left has turned into the 1950's era of segregation.

{"name":"111011_CB_margolick_EX.jpg.CROP.promovar-mediumlarge.jpg","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/f\/1\/f1f6dc4bec918b22197495df17058eaf.jpg","w":590,"h":391,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/f\/1\/f1f6dc4bec918b22197495df17058eaf"}111011_CB_margolick_EX.jpg.CROP.promovar-mediumlarge.jpg

1950's? Or 2018?

-----sig:
“Programs should be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute.” - Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs
"Political Correctness is fascism disguised as manners" --George Carlin

Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
avatar

[FOUR THOUSAND DOUBLE POSTS]

[edit] Damn it, this was the more recent post with edits. Well, tits up. Hope you have web archive.

[edit] OMG, web archive has this thread from Dec 2017. =DDD

http://web.archive.org/web/20171220010255/https://www.allegro.cc/forums/thread/615770/73

-----sig:
“Programs should be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute.” - Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs
"Political Correctness is fascism disguised as manners" --George Carlin

NiteHackr
Member #2,229
April 2002
avatar

Keep pounding that horse Edgar, I think I seen it twitch!

I get so sick of the hatred from the left. Can't seem to escape it. On the news, online... I almost never watch the news anymore and I unsubscribed from all news sources because I just get sick of hearing it.

I may have to stay away from this website like I did before as well.

Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
avatar

Actually, the left is rapidly losing ground. They thought they had 2016 in the bag... and were dumbstruck by it.

They keep talking about a "blue wave" of GOP positions losing their seats to voters reacting to trump...

... and we keep getting more red seats either held or converted.

I'm actually not even remotely a fan of the GOP. But I love seeing how--with authoritarian the left has become--the chickens are coming home to roost and people are rising up to say "No, you cannot police our language and our art. Go to hell."

I mean, it's pretty safe bet to say anyone who thinks it's okay to "kick black people out of restaurants."--those are the bad guys and they won't be in power for very long.

It seems to me that those authoritarian people don't really care about "left-wing" or "right-wing". They only care about oppressing people. So whoever is "in power" currently, they flock to those groups. Kind of like how pedophiles flock to religious organizations so they can be close to kids. Toxic people flock to whatever group/organization they can to oppress people. I really can't tell a difference between conservatives saying "videogames cause violence" and liberals saying "videogames cause violence". One cries "sinner", the other cries "sexist". They're both wrong and completely ignoring science in order to gain votes through emotional manipulation.

-----sig:
“Programs should be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute.” - Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs
"Political Correctness is fascism disguised as manners" --George Carlin

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
avatar

What I'm sick of is people crying "left" and "right" and not realizing that they're following behind a bunch of greedy, selfish, stupid cunts. Stop following and start having your own ideas. We don't need to fit into "left" and "right". You can just stand for what you believe in. And you should because when you fall in line with some generic category you're giving power to ideas that you don't believe in.

Eric Johnson
Member #14,841
January 2013
avatar

{"name":"611681","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/2\/7\/278ce415a08062608d7564a4b9c6549e.jpg","w":554,"h":960,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/2\/7\/278ce415a08062608d7564a4b9c6549e"}611681 ::)

Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
avatar

I would love if a real third party existed.

I looked up the Green Party yesterday out of desperation. Stances: "Gun control: Ban all of them." O_o Welp, that was quick.

-----sig:
“Programs should be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute.” - Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs
"Political Correctness is fascism disguised as manners" --George Carlin

Edgar Reynaldo
Member #8,592
May 2007
avatar

Neil Roy said:

Keep pounding that horse Edgar, I think I seen it twitch!

I get so sick of the hatred from the left. Can't seem to escape it. On the news, online... I almost never watch the news anymore and I unsubscribed from all news sources because I just get sick of hearing it.

I may have to stay away from this website like I did before as well.

I'm doin my best Neil! Promise! ;)

::) Your beloved Trump has pulled the wool over your eyes Neil. Are you truly blind to all the bad things he does?

There's hardly anything going on here and you feel the need to get away from it? Jeez. :/

I don't fit into the left or right if you consider the far left antifa, and the far right neo conservative. I suppose I'm somewhere in the middle, but I'm sick of both parties. They're both corrupt, for different reasons. But like Katko said, there's really no viable third party alternative for anyone.

So it's funny when you say don't be left or right, but if you're neither you might as well throw your vote away. Green party, Libertarian party, 3rd party etc they all have no backing and no force behind them.

So for now I'm still a Democrat, if only because the Republicans are the party of the richest of the rich.

Oh yeah, btw. Trickle down economics doesn't work. :P

EDIT

Neil Boi said:

e606141fb5910495a9697f3e8b2f9aad7b9352a7.jpg
I may have to stay away from this website like I did before as well.

Such a sore loser. :/

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
avatar

I looked up the Green Party yesterday out of desperation. Stances: "Gun control: Ban all of them." O_o Welp, that was quick.

Presumably that means prohibit guns that are predominantly used for crime: i.e., pistols, machine guns (already pretty much prohibited), and short shotguns and rifles. For all intents and purposes, none of these guns are very useful for hunting. Their only other purpose is violence: either crime or defense, but the defense is only really necessary because the criminals all have guns. The odd criminal in Canada still has an illegal gun (I mean, they're criminals, so the laws don't mean much); however, it's certainly more difficult to get them, and instead of having MAC-10's and AK's they're lucky if they can have some shit pistols and sawed offs.

I think that gun control in the USA is going to be very, very hard. I think that such a strong stance overnight would be too extreme. They'll need to slowly ease you all into surrendering your guns by convincing you over time that it's insane for everybody to have them. Which it pretty much is. They need to change America's concept of guns at home before it'll be possible to prohibit guns for violence. This will take time so I don't necessarily agree with jumping straight to banning them all. But certainly they can start by tightening the laws on the trade of guns, and tighten the flow of guns between state borders, and increase background checks on all types of guns. And for example, if you want to have a pistol, you should be required to complete and pass safety training with one as a bare minimum. That would be good for all guns honestly.

Guns are cool. There's no doubt about that. But they're also used for a lot of evil. And the excuse that you can use them to defend yourself from an evil government is bullshit: we've already seen that you cannot. The government is far too strong already for that. So that's not an argument. You can argue that you need guns for self-defense, but by tightening the restrictions on guns and destroying them as they come into the system you can limit the number of guns that are in the wild and therefore reduce the need to use one for self-defense.

I don't think there's a valid argument against guns for hunting. True hunting guns (which in Canada does NOT count AR-15's and the like; magazine capacities are also limited) aren't very effective for crime. In Canada, you can only legally own guns of a sufficient length (law enforcement can be licensed for more access to guns, but regular civilians are limited in how much permission they can have). Basically it cannot be practically concealable. Which makes it pretty unwieldy for robbing a store or resident. Not impossible, but pretty damn inconvenient and much less effective.

Of course, in Canada you also need to have trigger locks on the gun and separate locks on the ammo, and the gun needs to be locked up and unloaded while in a vehicle, and you can only have the gun in the vehicle to go straight from home to a shooting range or hunting site and back. Legally possessing a gun in Canada is kind of a drag, but also gun crime is pretty limited.

This is somewhat of a drag. Despite being drawn towards guns I have never actually fired one. Not a real one. And honestly I don't think I'm missing much. It's expensive to operate them anyway. Even if I did have the right to own them (I do, but not fun guns) I probably couldn't afford to maintain and feed them. So what's the point? I don't hunt. I basically have no need for a gun. And not having easy access to a gun means that I don't have an easy way to go on a rampage when something or someone in my life inevitably flips upside down.

Gun crime still does happen in Canada. I just heard two police officers were shot and killed in New Brunswick, but I haven't looked up the story. But those stores are really rare. I imagine in America that kind of thing happens several times per day every day. Which is still somewhat insignificant on the grand scheme of the country, but obviously certain parts of America get the worst of that and I imagine there are a lot of people in those neighborhoods that wish everybody didn't have guns (i.e., all the women, children, and mature adult men, for example).

I wouldn't rule out the Green Party only on the premise of gun control. Firstly, even if they tried it would take a century to actually prohibit them. Secondly, you can always join the part and help to steer their politics to better align with yours. If they're a reasonable group of people that you'd want to vote for then they should be open to changing their ideas, just as you should be. Of course, I am not familiar with the Green Parties in the USA. I'm only familiar with the Green Party of Canada and Green Party of Ontario. And I don't agree with all of their ideas, but I agree with much more of their ideas than any other party. So I support them anyway.

You already don't get everything you want from the other parties in the USA. So at least compare the harm that the existing parties in power are doing and weigh that against the idea of having to surrender some of your guns. Honestly, it's not that bad if you put it into perspective. Most of your life is unaffected by that.

Green party, Libertarian party, 3rd party etc they all have no backing and no force behind them.

The other parties have no support because people won't support the losing parties. Well if that's going to be your stance then there will NEVER be another party. If you want there to be another party to vote for then you need to support the underdogs to help build the momentum so they have a chance! I've been doing this for nearly a decade, and we actually have had 2 Green MP's in Canada's parliament, and there are now a few Green MPP's in the provincial legislatures. Compared to when I first started supporting them they've grown a lot of support and are starting to get a piece of the power. If you never try you can't win.

Append:

On another note, if both of the parties in power are bad then choosing between them is a wasted vote. If you want to change the government then start voting for the underdog candidates/parties that you actually support. They won't win, but you weren't going to win anyway. At least this way the parties in power will see that they're BOTH losing support, and if they continue the way they're going the powers that be are going to lose all power.

Edgar Reynaldo
Member #8,592
May 2007
avatar

You don't seem to get it.

It's a choice of the lesser of two evils. If I had wasted my vote on the Green Party etc, then I might as well have been supporting Trump. At least with the Democrats I would have gotten some sort of semblance of what I want.

Bernie's pretty cool, I don't mind him. He stands up for the people.

raynebc
Member #11,908
May 2010

Out of all the guns bamccaig mentioned, hand guns (ie. pistols) are realistically the only ones that are significantly used for crime in the USA. That doesn't mean their only defensive use is against assailants armed with guns. Hand guns are easier for people to carry, and realistically the only legal firearm people can carry concealed. Women are overall physically weaker than men, and I would not deny somebody the means to carry a weapon and defend against a physically stronger attacker. I do not believe guns will be banned wholesale in the USA unless the VERY far-left wing takes over control of the country and amends the Constitution. Even if that were to happen, there would be insurrection.

The CDC projected there being between 500,000 and 3 million defensive uses of guns per year. As far as I'm concerned, this far outweighs the 8-15 thousand gun homicides per year. I agree all gun owners should take safety and proficiency training, that is a good policy. The point of having guns for self defense is that you can effectively use them.

The claim that an armed United States could not defeat an evil government is speculation. An armed citizenry is a deterrant no matter how much one would claim its significance. If a tyranny developed, you can bet money there would be a subset of the citizens building and distributing banned weaponry among themselves.

Bam is not fully against guns, but is skeptical of their usefulness and admits never having used one. A difference in cultures is widely the reason USA and other countries are so far apart on this issue.

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
avatar

You don't seem to get it.

It's a choice of the lesser of two evils. If I had wasted my vote on the Green Party etc, then I might as well have been supporting Trump. At least with the Democrats I would have gotten some sort of semblance of what I want.

You don't seem to get it. You lost anyway. But even if you had won, you still would have lost because instead Hillary fucking Clinton would be the lunatic in office. There were no good choices. There never are in the major parties. They're just puppets anyway. It's just meant to distract us all from what's really going on. No matter which party or which candidate nothing ever seems to change. Coincidence?

Vote for the underdog. Yes, the country will still spiral out of control just as it has been, and things will still be shitty, but over the course of several decades the underdog may gain enough traction for one of two things to happen: either the dominant parties are forced to start caring about what the people do and stop caring about their under the table paycheck, or perhaps the puppet masters will just reveal themselves and explain that it's a charade and we can stop pretending that you ever had a say.

raynebc said:

The CDC projected there being between 500,000 and 3 million defensive uses of guns per year. As far as I'm concerned, this far outweighs the 8-15 thousand gun homicides per year.

Sources please. Of course, a homicide does not need to occur for a gun to be misused. It can simply be an injury, or a threat of injury, a suicide, or an accidental shooting. There doesn't even need to be an actual gun present for the threat of one to cause harm. Unless there were 500,000 defensive shootings per year I'm guessing those are self-reported statistics which has to call them into question.

raynebc said:

A difference in cultures is widely the reason USA and other countries are so far apart on this issue.

The USA is also pretty much the only fully developed country that still mostly believes in a magician in the sky. Is it in the water or do you just not educate people down there? ???

Post Reply


Go to: