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MiquelFire
Member #3,110
January 2003
avatar

Wow, I'm amazed that spam message was kept so long.

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Febreze (and other air fresheners actually) is just below perfumes/colognes, and that's just below dead skunks in terms of smells that offend my nose.
MiquelFire.red | +Me
Windows 8 is a toned, stylish, polished professional athlete. But it’s wearing clown makeup, and that creates a serious image problem. ~PCWorld Article

GullRaDriel
Member #3,861
September 2003
avatar

The spam is still here, it's part of the topic now ^^

"Code is like shit - it only smells if it is not yours"
Allegro Wiki, full of examples and articles !!

Bruce Perry
Member #270
April 2000

So who wants to try the e-mail address out?

I fancy being a Security men and Women.

--
Bruce "entheh" Perry [ Web site | DUMB | Set Up Us The Bomb !!! | Balls ]
Programming should be fun. That's why I hate C and C++.
The brxybrytl has you.

Johan Halmén
Member #1,550
September 2001

Monty Python is way funnier than Monty Java.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Years of thorough research have revealed that the red "x" that closes a window, really isn't red, but white on red background.

Years of thorough research have revealed that what people find beautiful about the Mandelbrot set is not the set itself, but all the rest.

Bruce Perry
Member #270
April 2000

 ||
c_)
 o<
<_)

--
Bruce "entheh" Perry [ Web site | DUMB | Set Up Us The Bomb !!! | Balls ]
Programming should be fun. That's why I hate C and C++.
The brxybrytl has you.

Gideon Weems
Member #3,925
October 2003

Aw, the real spam is gone now. I'm going to miss it.

No!  Don't stomp on teh ducky!!
 ||
c_)
     o<
 →  <_)

Dennis
Member #1,090
July 2003
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{"name":"610034","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/3\/c\/3c0b0276d9759867fcd62752e038c9a7.png","w":481,"h":143,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/3\/c\/3c0b0276d9759867fcd62752e038c9a7"}610034

Peter Hull
Member #1,136
March 2001

Can I just interrupt the ASCII art to grumble about CMake?

Here it is:

*Grumble*

Thank you, please carry on.

Aaron Bolyard
Member #7,537
July 2006
avatar

Can I just interrupt the ASCII art to grumble about CMake?

That's why I use Premake. Simple, small, and still powerful. And it actually has a good scripting language (Lua).

(Premake5 doesn't work on FreeBSD, though, which is a bit of a bother. Going to have to get around to contributing to Premake after using it for so many years... That would be pretty neat, actually.)

Bruce Pascoe
Member #15,931
April 2015
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Hehe, that ducky is totally about to get eaten by a lion. Um... yummy? ;D

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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MiquelFire
Member #3,110
January 2003
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This topic was about to die, so here's a story:

I got a Nexus 6 through AT&T back in March. All was good during that time. Come October, Android 6 (Marshmallow) came out, I never got it. November, I get some Lollipop update to apply November security patches, but no Marshmallow, December, same thing. Just before the December update, I found out that if you use a Nexus 6 on AT&T's network (including the MVNOs) you'll end up on a upgrade path that forces you to stay with Lollipop, while everyone else with a Nexus 6 is running Marshmallow.

At some point (first week of January), I did an OEM unlock with the plan to manually flash Marshmallow. Never got around to it because the hassle of doing that (it does a factory wipe) with the backups, I got lazy on doing that. I did however root my device so I can kill of the annoying AT&T boot animation. (Actually, it was more annoying that I had a password required to unlock my phone on boot, so every boot had me hear that sound twice!)

Yesterday, AT&T finally allowed an OTA patch from the December Lollipop to the December Marshmallow (the week before, everyone else got a January update to Marshmallow, so AT&T is still behind, but at least the build is what everyone else got).

Oh but wait, I rooted my phone, since Lollipop, the OTA update actually checks the system partition, so having rooted my system, the update would fail. To fix this I just needed to download the factory image, erase the system bit, and reflash it so it would be clean.

The factory images for the Nexus 6 doesn't include the build I was running, so I used the previous build by do that system thing, downloaded the OTA for getting to the build I was at. Nope, something somewhere still had my at the wrong build. The system was at Y, but other stuff it checked for the OTA update said Z (That's the last letter of the build BTW), so I did a complete flash (without wiping the data) to Y, then OTA to Z, then the new OTA yesterday, then I downloaded the OTA to so I would have the latest version of Marshmallow. From now on, I'll download the OTA and manually flash so I'm not stuck on AT&T's schedule.

Once the phone is paid off, I'm switching to Fi.

---
Febreze (and other air fresheners actually) is just below perfumes/colognes, and that's just below dead skunks in terms of smells that offend my nose.
MiquelFire.red | +Me
Windows 8 is a toned, stylish, polished professional athlete. But it’s wearing clown makeup, and that creates a serious image problem. ~PCWorld Article

Bruce Pascoe
Member #15,931
April 2015
avatar

Aw dammit, I was hoping the thread would die with bam's duck video...

And yeah, as much as I like Android, that's the one thing I have to say Apple got right with the iPhone: They control the OS, so you can always get updates the day they come out without having to worry about whether your carrier will cooperate. And no carrier-installed bloatware. :)

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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If they had gotten it right then neither the carrier NOR the vendor would control the OS. The user would control the OS! >:(

MiquelFire
Member #3,110
January 2003
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Funny thing, there's actually no carrier bloatware on this phone (Actually, I remember reading that two apps get installed when you activate the phone with a AT&T sim card, but the trigger didn't get fired for some reason when I got the phone, maybe the play store setting to require wi-fi carried over from my old phone)

Actually, if Apple didn't have the power they did, I could see AT&T block iOS updates.

The Nexus 6 might be the last phone that Google allows other carriers to carry, and to use other carriers with the future phones, you have to buy unlocked. (The price tag on the 6 was too high to buy buy through a carrier for me)

bamccaig said:

If they had gotten it right then neither the carrier NOR the vendor would control the OS. The user would control the OS! >:(

I installed Cyanogenmod on an older phone, and I'm tempted to go there (once they have a stable build at least for the Nexus 6... a little nuts that ). The Nexus line does allow for you to install custom OSes actually.

---
Febreze (and other air fresheners actually) is just below perfumes/colognes, and that's just below dead skunks in terms of smells that offend my nose.
MiquelFire.red | +Me
Windows 8 is a toned, stylish, polished professional athlete. But it’s wearing clown makeup, and that creates a serious image problem. ~PCWorld Article

Bruce Pascoe
Member #15,931
April 2015
avatar

bamccaig said:

If they had gotten it right then neither the carrier NOR the vendor would control the OS. The user would control the OS! >:(

That requires the OS to be open-source (which Android is, no?). And most users aren't developers, so there would need to be some update channel for laypeople... which the carriers would want to control, and then we'd be back in the same boat as we are with Android.

So given the choice between the two evils (because there's really no third option, the real world being what it is), I'm much more comfortable with the vendor providing immediate OS updates than being filibustered by the carriers.

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
avatar

The problem with the current ecosystem is that installing a custom OS is not supported by carriers or in some cases vendors. It can certainly be done, but it's considered along the lines of "cracking" and essentially AT OWN RISK. The OS is not a developer tool. It's the pattern of signals that makes the useless paperweight into a functioning tool. Microsoft Windows is equivalent. Not only developers get to install it. Anybody can. In practice, most users are oblivious, and only power users and developers usually tinker with that, but the freedom exists (for the most part, at least where it hasn't been surrendered yet).

There's no reason the carrier should care what OS you're running on your phone. The only thing that should matter to them is that you're able to connect to their network and communicate with it. All pretty standard stuff for a handset. There's no legitimate reason that it has to be proprietary or locked down. For additional carrier-specific services you can install an app developed by the carrier by choice if you so desire.

There's also no legitimate reason the OS vendor should be in control of what OS you're running on your phone. They make the software and release it and if you choose to run it then so be it. This is how it should work, and has worked in other markets for decades. It should even go beyond that. Not only the OS, but also the radio firmware should be 100% user-replaceable. I paid $800 for a phone. That should be mine. I should be able to do whatever I want with it, and no other entity should be able to do anything with it that I don't allow. And if I run into difficulties replacing the software I should be able to purchase technical support from the carrier or vendor to get the phone working again.

Bruce Pascoe
Member #15,931
April 2015
avatar

On the other hand, suppose everyone is allowed to do all that with no arbitrary restrictions in place... okay fine, but your carrier is now under no obligation to allow you to connect the device to their network as it's out of spec. That's well within their rights, as they own the network.

For the sake of my sanity, I much prefer having things locked down with a vocal minority railing against it (or hacking their way past it, which if you know what you're doing, is a big part of what makes rooting/jailbreaking/etc. fun), versus half the population effectively soft-bricking their phones and causing a massive uproar because their carrier won't accommodate the modified software. And let's face it, changing your OS isn't exactly for the faint of heart. I wouldn't recommend a layperson to install Windows themselves for example, not even Win10 where that process is pretty much seamless now.

If all this makes a large portion of the population sheep for not questioning such a state of affairs, so be it. I'm a pragmatist. Sheep are much easier to deal with (i.e. ignore) than ravenous werewolves.

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
avatar

On the other hand, suppose everyone is allowed to do all that with no arbitrary restrictions in place... okay fine, but your carrier is now under no obligation to allow you to connect the device to their network as it's out of spec. That's well within their rights, as they own the network.

That's absurd. Think about what you're saying. Should I get kicked off of the Internet because my ISP doesn't control my PC? Should the cable company get to install its own software onto my TV? No. Networks define a protocol and nodes within the network communicate using the protocol. There's no benefit to the protocol being proprietary. That will only increase the odds of vulnerabilities and abuse. It has no practical use. With an open protocol defined its trivial for any skilled individual to program a device to communicate with the network. And if that node happens to misbehave the network can signal an error and terminate the connection. It has to do this anyway because nothing would stop Alice from plugging an unauthorized device into the network and misbehaving.

For the sake of my sanity, I much prefer having things locked down with a vocal minority railing against it (or hacking their way past it, which if you know what you're doing, is a big part of what makes rooting/jailbreaking/etc. fun), versus half the population effectively soft-bricking their phones and causing a massive uproar because their carrier won't accommodate the modified software. And let's face it, changing your OS isn't exactly for the faint of heart. I wouldn't recommend a layperson to install Windows themselves for example, not even Win10 where that process is pretty much seamless now.

It's not really about every individual having the skills to customize their device. It's about every individual having the right and freedom to do what they want with their own property. They may be able to do that themselves, or they may have to hire a third party to do that, but the freedom to do so is good for everybody.

If all this makes a large portion of the population sheep for not questioning such a state of affairs, so be it. I'm a pragmatist. Sheep are much easier to deal with (i.e. ignore) than ravenous werewolves.

I think that you're completely in the dark about what government agencies and corporations are doing behind your back. They are able to hack into iOS devices nearly 100% of the time and Droids nearly 50% of the time. Windows is equally weak. You are essentially being watched and manipulated by nefarious characters against your will, at your cost, and for their gain. There's nothing good about the "locked down" state of affairs. The vendors are lazy, relying on security by obscurity, leaving you and your family vulnerable; while your own property fails to function in a way that is most beneficial to you and you're nearly powerless to do anything about it. Open your damn eyes and mind.

Bruce Pascoe
Member #15,931
April 2015
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bamccaig said:

Open your damn eyes and mind.

I see this line all the time in one form or another, and I find it not only patronizing but presumptuous. It suggests the person just hasn't done their research and would come around and "see the light" if they just opened their eyes to The Truth(tm). The funny thing is, that's exactly the same thinking that drives religious fervor (the exact opposite of being open-minded). "My worldview is right, and you're all just too blind to see it." It's a stupid argument, like people that blithely call iPhone users "sheep" because they happen to prefer the more popular option. You will never win an argument with me that way.

My eyes are open. I'm one of the most open-minded people I know. I know the NSA and similar agencies exist. I know what they do. I just don't see it as the big issue everyone makes it out to be, given the real-world evidence in front of me. The world isn't as scary a place as everyone makes it out to be. The planet keeps turning anyway, none the worse for wear.

Open-minded people don't try to win converts. They work with the hand they're given.

Anyway, I think that's enough politics for this topic. Here everyone, have an eaty pig:
{"name":"687474703a2f2f692e696d6775722e636f6d2f763563514874562e6a7067","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/6\/2\/62a331b0e02880bd5b1fc8a3df52095b.jpg","w":1023,"h":682,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/6\/2\/62a331b0e02880bd5b1fc8a3df52095b"}687474703a2f2f692e696d6775722e636f6d2f763563514874562e6a7067

Peter Hull
Member #1,136
March 2001

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
avatar

My girlfriend literally scrolls through Facebook on her phone "liking". Every. Single. Post. Rapid fire. Like 1 per second. She insists that she reads them, and she does read very fast, but there's just not that much likable content... It's absolutely stupid. Which is exactly why I don't go anywhere near those services.

Bruce Perry
Member #270
April 2000

Ooh, this is promising - the fighting posts might push our word count a bit higher so we can compete with the Zelda thread :)

On the downside, I couldn't face reading them all ;D

--
Bruce "entheh" Perry [ Web site | DUMB | Set Up Us The Bomb !!! | Balls ]
Programming should be fun. That's why I hate C and C++.
The brxybrytl has you.

MiquelFire
Member #3,110
January 2003
avatar

I read a few of them, but there was too much wording for stuff that is pointless fighting.

---
Febreze (and other air fresheners actually) is just below perfumes/colognes, and that's just below dead skunks in terms of smells that offend my nose.
MiquelFire.red | +Me
Windows 8 is a toned, stylish, polished professional athlete. But it’s wearing clown makeup, and that creates a serious image problem. ~PCWorld Article

Edgar Reynaldo
Member #8,592
May 2007
avatar

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