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The Curse of the Programmer
Edgar Reynaldo
Member #8,592
May 2007
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Polybios said:

I've seen you arguing about religious issues here for years and my general impression is you're a bit oversensitive on this topic. :-/

Imagine a child that wants attention. If it knows you get upset on a certain topic, what is it going to do? ::)

Edit:
Just realized I'm in difficult waters... :-/ I didn't mean to blame you, Edgar, I'm trying to encourage you to relax in a well-intentioned way so to speak, don't know how to say it. :)

It's not even the fact that he openly mocks religion in general, but that he does it purposely, and with intent to provoke and upset people, which he does with other topics as well. His opinion is clearly more right than ours and we don't have a right not to be abused, according to some. If I'm getting offended now its because I've just had enough of it. It's driven people away, and it pisses me off, and we shouldn't have to put up with it anymore. And sometimes a child needs a good spanking. :/

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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I don't know what to believe any more.

Believe this: none of it is a joke.

Quote:

Only later, after the village chief's home is broken into, do the villagers realize they should have been more concerned with a criminal on the loose than condemning carelessness (which is not a crime).

So what do you suggest we should be focusing on rather than toxic behavior?

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

Striker
Member #10,701
February 2009
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So what do you suggest we should be focusing on rather than toxic behavior?

Maybe on the absolute truth? You and Edgar are constantly preaching the equality of man and woman. Where in your Bible is this written?

Elias
Member #358
May 2000

As was said by several people, there is no such thing as one person with "toxic" behavior - it's always at least two.

--
"Either help out or stop whining" - Evert

Edgar Reynaldo
Member #8,592
May 2007
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Striker said:

Maybe on the absolute truth? You and Edgar are constantly preaching the equality of man and woman. Where in your Bible is this written?

Maybe if you read what I posted earlier you would know the Bible is fairly male-oriented. Values of the time? I don't know. And we are talking about several thousand years ago so what was accepted then is obviously not what is or should be accepted now. Do you want women to be treated unfairly? To receive less pay? To have less rights than men? Etc...

Elias said:

there is no such thing as one person with "toxic" behavior - it's always at least two.

That's silly. One person can easily be considered toxic on his own. They don't come in pairs you know.

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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Protip: The "supreme loser" of this Web site is (or at least was) a devout Christian. When he feels that you are abusing your privileges or trolling he is stern with his all powerful fingers. To assert that somebody is abusive towards Christians on these boards is pretty laughable to me, even if Matthew is busy with work and life (which he has neither confirmed nor denied). He still pops up from time to time, and you'll find that he typically shows up in most "controversial" threads from the past as well. I don't speak for the man, and I have a lot of love and respect for him, but I think that he has already spoken. If my beer soaked memory serves me I think that he has also made it clear that he generally rules this kingdom and community wishes are a secondary consideration.

Nothing at all stops you or the developers from creating your own on-topic forum. Good luck making people give a damn about a dying software tool. Allegro is and was great, but it is certainly lagging behind in technology by today's standards. Which doesn't matter for the project members who actually write and maintain Allegro. They enjoy it. They aren't doing it for fame. The same goes for the developers who rely on Allegro to get their work done. They enjoy using Allegro and that won't be affected by popularity contests. It's not going to make a forum come to life like this thread has either. Check the post counts. People are more invested in this thread than they are in Allegro and that should tell you something. Or not. Who am I to judge?

I suspect that "you people" just skip videos with a preconceived conclusion, but that's your loss. In either case, here's my response to waaaaah my religious beliefs are such a victim (the audio is sampled on a Dead Celebrity Status track on an awesome album, which is what I thought I'd find):

video

I bet you Jesus is just shivering in Heaven watching your struggle:

video

Edgar Reynaldo
Member #8,592
May 2007
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Whatever Bam-Keg. You are the biggest hypocrite. In no way at any time have I attempted to force you to believe what I do. I have never encouraged you to believe on or in Jesus Christ or God or Buddha or the Dalai Llama or the Easter Bunny or the Tooth Fairy either. You however push your atheist garbage on everyone else. All I ask is that you don't go around bashing my or other's beliefs, or women either. You clearly do not care about your behaviour. And no, I'm not gonna watch some trash video you posted as proof of your right to bash my beliefs.

Remember this? You in effect signed it when you first posted here.

This Membership Agreement is obviously not intended to be a legal document, but just a common sense, everyday agreement. Therefore, just because something isn't specifically mentioned doesn't mean anything.

General
I understand that being a member of Allegro.cc is a privilege, not a right. Therefore, I promise to act professionally, being courteous to all — even to those who probably don't deserve it. If I break this agreement, I understand that my account will be subject to termination or restriction.

I realize that this agreement is a living document and as long as I use my membership, I will abide by it.

The Forums
I will only post content that contains value; I won't post just to post. I will not spam, proselytize, flame, insult, or stir up trouble. I promise not to relentlessly argue when people do not care to hear. I will conduct all public conversations in my best English, avoiding using l33t speak, AOL kiddie talk, or an "e e cummings" style.

I realize that the posts I make become the property of Allegro.cc.

The Depot
I will only submit projects if I have the authority to do so. I will only submit projects that were made with Allegro. I understand that Allegro.cc reserves the right to reject any submission based on its content.

I give permission to allow Allegro.cc distribute any of my projects (freeware or shareware version) on its website, CD-ROMs, or other media.

How much of that have you broken lately? Huh, pal?

Quote:

I will not spam, proselytize, flame, insult, or stir up trouble.

Read it and weep newbies.

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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I'll be honest, I had to look up the definition of "proselytize". Nope, not guilty! I think that the agreement may have been modified in my 9 or so years, but in any case I think I'm good. How about you guys?

Striker
Member #10,701
February 2009
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Maybe if you read what I posted earlier you would know the Bible is fairly male-oriented. Values of the time? I don't know.

A few pages ago you claimed to exactly know what's right or wrong. If maybe today many people have changed their values, that does not mean all holy scriptures, the law of nature and the law of God must be rewritten.

And we are talking about several thousand years ago so what was accepted then is obviously not what is or should be accepted now.

It is only a few years since the 1960's, that people have changed their mind so much.

Do you want women to be treated unfairly? To receive less pay? To have less rights than men? Etc...

It is not really important what you or i am thinking. The important is what God thinks. And from the viewpoint of every holy scripture it is simply not true that man and woman are equal. ;)

beoran
Member #12,636
March 2011

I am posting in this thread because I am invested in Allegro. It's easier to bicker than to actually be productive, and that's why threads like these are unfortunately so "popular". I have to admit before I participated as well, but now I realize that was a bad idea. And I feel I have to keep pointing out that threads on controversial topics are a waste of everyone's time and to the detriment of the project.

If Allegro is dying, then what are you all doing about it? If you don't care enough about Allegro to help out, then I don't think there's much point in you all posting here. If you do, though then I'd like you all to consider how what you want to post is helpful. If it isn't then let it go and don't post your rant.

Religion, feminism, etc. are topics that create much heat and friction without anything good coming from it for Allegro. I think it's better to avoid such topics here or on IRC. And no we don't need a different forum. I rather think that the people posing here should behave a bit differently. Please take your personal struggles elsewhere.

Polybios
Member #12,293
October 2010

The idea that Allegro is dying is basically a self-fulfilling prophecy IMHO. Its repeated expression by people who don't help out is the only thing I really consider toxic here. Last time I checked, SDL wasn't really dying either. But we've been through that discussion already.
As this is an off-topic board, I don't see why ... off-topic discussions should be generally discouraged, though. Those who want to will help out anyway.

All these problems will be solved anyway as soon as mind control is ready. >:(

Elias
Member #358
May 2000

That's silly. One person can easily be considered toxic on his own.

Second person is the one to call them toxic, obviously.

John 8:7 said:

If any one of you is without sin, let them be the first to throw a stone. (Jesus Christ)

In case anyone here actually is Christian.

--
"Either help out or stop whining" - Evert

Edgar Reynaldo
Member #8,592
May 2007
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In rebuttal to how I'm supposedly not Christian because I'm accusing bam of being a dick, here is the actual story of John 7-8 according to the NRSV and wikipedia.

The passage

John 7:53-8:11 in the New Revised Standard Version:

53 Then each of them went home, 1 while Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. 2 Early in the morning he came again to the temple. All the people came to him and he sat down and began to teach them. 3 The scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman who had been caught in adultery; and making her stand before all of them, 4 they said to him, ‘Teacher, this woman was caught in the very act of committing adultery. 5 Now in the law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?’ 6 They said this to test him, so that they might have some charge to bring against him. Jesus bent down and wrote with his finger on the ground. 7 When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, ‘Let anyone among you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.’ 8 And once again he bent down and wrote on the ground. 9 When they heard it, they went away, one by one, beginning with the elders; and Jesus was left alone with the woman standing before him. 10 Jesus straightened up and said to her, ‘Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?’ 11 She said, ‘No one, sir.’ And Jesus said, ‘Neither do I condemn you. Go your way, and from now on do not sin again.’

Guess what he was writing in the sand? The men were guilty of adultery too. Am I guilty of what I have been accusing bamccaig of? Maybe, but hardly to the degree that I have had to put up with from him.

Note what Jesus said to the woman :

Quote:

Go your way, and from now on do not sin again.

Will bambam stop behaving the way he has been? I doubt it.

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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Elias said:

Second person is the one to call them toxic, obviously.

I 100% disagree.

What's so bad about calling someone out on their behavior?

I was hoping we could steer this discussion on track, but it seems like it's not possible. :( I know it's impossible to get bambam's to have a reasonable civilized discussion, i was just hoping other people would :(

Polybios said:

Those who want to will help out anyway.

Maybe. For a time. then they get to know our most treasured members, like bambams. Then they decide its not worth the trouble.

I'm starting to have second thoughts about being here honestly. I don't like being angry. And people like bambams make me angry. I already have to avoid the forums for a time just to let it subside, but is it worth the trouble at all for me at this point? That is something I'll have to decide.

I've been here so long, its like home.

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
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https://www.allegro.cc/cc/theme-css?xml=off

.m7536 {
    display: none;
}

What is so hard about that?

Or

#b-4 {
  display: none;
}

You can already filter Off-Topic out of recent threads.

If you walk past a concealed trash can, do you open it up and smell it? Or are you able to pass by without doing that?

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
avatar

If you walk past a concealed trash can, do you open it up and smell it? Or are you able to pass by without doing that?

If you walk by shit, do you wish someone didn't leave it there? Would you stand by and let someone squat on the sidewalk and shit in the open without saying anything?

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
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If you add those lines of code, you won't walk by any.

And another man's trash is another man's treasure. :o

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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And another man's trash is another man's treasure. :o

So you're glad when ever someone stops by to take a dookie in your yard?

I don't actually want to ban or ignore anyone. Especially those that have shown they are useful and able to behave like civilized human beings.

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

Gideon Weems
Member #3,925
October 2003

So what do you suggest we should be focusing on rather than toxic behavior?

I should have clarified. That fable was intended to illustrate absurdity in blaming victims: If the village idiot leaves his front door unlocked, don't persecute him if he is robbed. If a women dresses like a slut, don't persecute her if she is raped. Persecute the criminal.

Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
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So you're glad when ever someone stops by to take a dookie in your yard?

Yeah, it reminds me how fortunate I am to own my own yard. :-[

beoran
Member #12,636
March 2011

@Matthew Leverton

I guess that's the problem, some people just want to open the trash can to get crap out and throw it at other people. But I see the point, it may be better to have a trash can then to have the litter piling up all over the place.

At least, could you make the off topic forum less prominent and come with a warning? Perhaps put it in the bottom of the list, of forums, mark it with a warning about the "trash can" it is, etc?

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
avatar

Yeah, it reminds me how fortunate I am to own my own yard. :-[

*sigh*

This is the kind of thing i'm getting sick of.

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

Derezo
Member #1,666
April 2001
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It is your own personal responsibility. I don't personally mind bambam's posts. Sometimes I read a paragraph, laugh at how naive it is, snort a bump of my own nostalgic past, and move on to the next post. Other times he really does say some insightful things, and I can respect that he really is quite intelligent.

I'd admit that some are pretty bad. He openly attacks someone's character in the first post of this thread. Tsk tsk.

Seriously though, the controls are in place for you to manage your own experience here.

"He who controls the stuffing controls the Universe"

Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
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This thread makes me sad. :(

-----sig:
“Programs should be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute.” - Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs
"Political Correctness is fascism disguised as manners" --George Carlin

Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
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