I think that you guys are missing the point that many regulars on these boards no longer use Allegro, and for its entire lifetime the off-topic board has always been the most popular. You think it'll increase productivity within the Allegro project to take it away? It might just be the nail in the coffin for the community and therefore the project.

What if they're just not actively using Allegro, but still might later, and are also capable of answering general programming and game design questions?

The off topic forums don't need to be eliminated, they need to be de-populated of opinionated a-holes who don't seem to be contributing much to the prosperity of the community. Consistently and repeatedly spouting hateful offensive and derisive things should be grounds for encouragement to tell the people doing these things to get lost. Just because it's an off topic forum doesn't mean that its everyone's right to make it some kind of no holds barred boxing match. Nor does it excuse offensive speech and behavior that only serves to destroy and not build up.

If we don't hold ourselves to at least some kind of minimum standard ethic of behavior then we don't stand for anything.

No, they don't need to be 'de-populated of opinionated a-holes.' You might like it if that were the case, but everyone's lives' go on.

You're right, no one has a right to come here and be offensive to anyone else, because this forum isn't public property. In fact, no one has a right to post here at all. It has to be allowed by the owner of the site, and so far he may be giving that privilege.

The thing of it is, you don't have a right not to be offended either (and god knows some people can get offended at really ridiculous things, though I'm not saying whether or not that's the case here since I generally don't pay attention to this stuff.) If that was the case, we'd all be pretty screwed whether we intended to be an ass or not. It is not your right to have bambams shut up, as much as you might like the idea. However, you can feel free to try and dissuade him from any course of action you disagree with, but it's starting to look like(to me, personally) it's a waste of effort.

The alternative, or even supplemental course of action, is to work on yourself and make an effort not to worry about it so much. If someone says something you think is really off handed and ridiculous, it's not impossible to learn to think "Hey, that was really stupid. In fact, it was so stupid it's not even worth my time." It might take time and practice, but you end up controlling the situation with something you're got more control over: yourself.

For the record.... I don't agree with this premise that getting rid of people who offend you on this forum is going to turn allegro.cc into some sort of flourishing programmer's paradise. I've been to plenty of forums with fairly intelligent people and a few massively offensive people, and things keep on trucking.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go eat 10,000 PBCs.

P.S. Why don't people from IRC come to defend bambams? Because I'm perfectly happy to let him take care of himself, I'm not an apologist for him. My motivation for reading this thread is either to be entertained or analyse it and form my own opinion. I don't feel compelled to share all of my opinions with everyone. Also, I can't sleep and I'm really bored right now.

I think people are making this a way too big of an issue. We've been spending far more time debating it than we actually spend dealing with the issues we say we're upset with.

Off-Topic Ordeals is already not listed in the recent threads by default.

So,
1) If there are a couple of threads you don't agree with, just don't post in them. Just because an issue, or stance is controversial doesn't automatically make it bad, and there will always be people with stances you don't agree with.

2) Clearly there are some unresolved issues with people's attitudes/disrespect in threads, so maybe everyone should just compromise and try to be a little nicer regardless of whether or not you think it applies to you. Just make sure you realize there's another person with a different experience on the other end of that monitor.

3) Focus on having fun and helping people.

We're all internet dickwads (sometimes).

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On the contrary, you did no such thing. You effectively just said, "I disagree with your ideas and so do a few special other members that are more important to me than you so you can't express your ideas anymore or I'll ban you!" You don't stop the discussion entirely. You just censor people you don't like. Freenode rules basically are "keep the temperature low", but you immediately go full chanop threat mode when your comfort zone is pushed.

I can only speak for myself, but I haven't changed any behavior in #allegro. I just haven't been challenged to a debate in a while, in large part because I haven't been as active in #allegro lately (due to work and life). I'm really the only person you would have asked to stop. Other people willingly discuss all topics, including yourself, and can get away with anything because you like them.

You're very proud of yourself because you're in a position of power that hasn't been challenged. I would find it very entertaining to have a freenode staff member active in #allegro for a year. You think you're some kind of hero defending the oppressed from the oppressor, but really you're just an oppressive hypocrite. I do not attack members (any more than they attack, but of course #allegro is typically a very [sarcastically] abusive channel).

Bambam is his own spin doctor. The image of the lone rational thinker in the desert of group think, fighting imagined "dictators" and defending his freedom of speech. It's no use arguing against that.

You demanded I stop saying things you disagreed with. It is your shallow opinion that I was spreading hate. It is not a fact, and I insist that it's slander.

At the time I was probably in the midst of being enlightened on the issues myself and motivated to discuss the topic with other intelligent people. I think you're exaggerating that I would trigger on any mention of women. Most often what would trigger the debate was the mention of Feminist ideals. Again, "hate" is your word. I don't hate, nor have I ever hated, women.

Admitting it is your first step to recovery. Next work on leaving out the excuses. Just for the record, whose definition of what is respectable in any particular context applies? There is no single definition for any context.

I was there to have intelligent conversations with peers that I respected. Peers that happened to trigger debate by repeating seemingly innocent politically charged delusions without taking time to assess the value in what they're saying. The best way to avoid a "fight" is to keep those ideas to yourself.

It makes me uncomfortable to read politically charged assertions without a basis in reality.

It has been more than once or twice, and the main reason it hasn't been many more is because you wave the ban hammer to censor me.

You don't know what polite is. A polite moderator approach would be indifferent to the ideas themselves and it would target everybody, not a specific person.

"I don't care what anybody thinks about this topic, but it's getting a little bit heated in here so can we please change the subject?"

You have a habit of letting other people get their ideas in and then prevent me from responding to it. Fairness requires you to silence everybody on the matter simultaneously. Silencing only me is censorship. It has nothing to do with moderation. It's an abuse of power.

I'm sorry you feel that way because I personally respect you a lot and consider you a valuable peer. I strongly oppose your abuse of moderator privileges, hypocritical troll accusations, and loud support for censorship. All of that is circumstantial. You have a tendency to attack my character and myself so I respond in kind. I find it hard to believe that you feel like the victim in the exchange.

I am regularly harassed or "abused" in the channel, and I'm not alone. Most of us just take it because we understand that it's all in good fun (even if some people aren't always meaning to be funny). Maybe you're just oblivious to it because your judgment is clouded or you're a lesser target.

I'm not saying that it's something that necessarily needs to change. I find it fun most of the time, and I think that most participants do. When it does get out of hand it is usually short lived. The channel is attentive to distress calls.

Regarding Sevalecan, he is a routine target for the entire channel. It isn't just you that pokes fun at him. I can't speak for him, but I think that he has grown a thick skin from it and like myself takes it in stride. Of course, that doesn't mean that it doesn't still bruise from time to time.

"Stick and stones may break your bones, but words can break he-arts."

Most everyone loves Sevalecan though.

Aren't you? You don't mind me being here, as long as I don't say anything (at least nothing you disagree with)?

I don't recall seeing you in IRC. Do you go by another name? If not then I really don't see what qualifies you to stick your hand in this fight. I'm more than happy to take you on if you'd like, but I'd rather not have to.

Emphasis mine. Either you haven't been reading the thread or you're simplying ignoring the replies from people you don't agree with. Some have said that they want the forum censored and/or "troublemakers" banned, others have suggested getting rid of the off-topic board entirely, and others have said nothing needs changing and that if people want to do things differently they should create a new site from which to do it. Many people probably aren't even aware that this wasn't the official forum of Allegro, and I'm not even sure that it is now, though perhaps that has changed if the official one was shut down... Of course, the official forum was never as active as this one was at one time. Which is perhaps a bit of foreshadowing if certain people get their wishes.

Let me sum my opinion on this thread.

What. The Fuck. Ever.

I don't see anything changing here. When people ask people to stop being offensive to others and to stop starting fights, whether or not 'someone else started it', they should stop. Period. This never happens. When people feel the need to challenge other people's ideas unto the point where they decide to leave a forum, that's unhealthy and it needs to change. Why do we need offensive members here again? Oh right, the general opinion here is that the right to free speech is the right to be rude, confrontational, offensive, and antagonistic towards people that are obviously wrong and who need to be corrected. When did we elect bamccaig to be our official forum asshole? And why does he continue to remain in that post?

Doesn't upheaval signal a need for change? Something's gotta change. Unless of course you want this forum to continue on its present course into oblivion. :/

Stumbled upon this tonight. Seems pretty relevant (you need to get past about a minute of idiots to get to the smart people):

That Ricky Gervais is a smart comedian.

Referring to my personal strand of this conversation:

I was just talking about what I saw on these forums. Well, I think I politely turn down your generous offer, thank you.

I don't know. Maybe feeding the troll with a big fat extra thread dedicated to him and his trolling is just the wrong thing to do? If everyone just completely ignored the ... "ideas" (wait... the substandard behaviour in question here) instead of overreacting on it, maybe that'd work?

@Edgar:

I've seen you arguing about religious issues here for years and my general impression is you're a bit oversensitive on this topic.
Imagine a child that wants attention. If it knows you get upset on a certain topic, what is it going to do?

Edit:
Just realized I'm in difficult waters... I didn't mean to blame you, Edgar, I'm trying to encourage you to relax in a well-intentioned way so to speak, don't know how to say it.