Allegro.cc - Online Community

Allegro.cc Forums » Off-Topic Ordeals » Is Facebook the Nazi state of the internet?

This thread is locked; no one can reply to it. rss feed Print
 1   2 
Is Facebook the Nazi state of the internet?
torhu
Member #2,727
September 2002
avatar

If you have ever made posts on facebook promoting democracy and human rights, you will know what I'm talking about :(

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
avatar

Maybe you know too many ass-holes. Also how did you manage to invoke godwin's law before even writing your message?

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

torhu
Member #2,727
September 2002
avatar

I have no asshole facebook friends, trust me. I know one or two assholes, but I would never accept those people as my FB friends. And no, I didn't mention the nazis on FB :P

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
avatar

Except you said you have issues when you bring up democracy and human rights.. Most (or all) of the people that will see that are your friends. Meaning your friends have something against one or both of those things. That makes them a-holes ;)

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

torhu
Member #2,727
September 2002
avatar

I shared on of Sam Harris' posts, I suppose that's the problem. It's pretty fucked up that Facebook acts like fascists while Mark Zuckerberg has said publicly (IIRC) that he is an atheist.

This is an example of the fucked up shit that Facebook seems to have no problem with: https://www.facebook.com/Page.I.Love.Islam

Derezo
Member #1,666
April 2001
avatar

Why would the Facebook Corporation have a problem with that page?

What did you post this time, a dead malnourished black baby with "Messiah" carved into her forehead?

"He who controls the stuffing controls the Universe"

torhu
Member #2,727
September 2002
avatar

Derezo said:

Why would the Facebook Corporation have a problem with that page?

Are you Jack the Ripper's grandchild or something? EDIT: You didn't look at the page, did you? ::)

Anway, here's the artice I shared: http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/lifting-the-veil-of-islamophobia

Derezo
Member #1,666
April 2001
avatar

Did you find anything in particular? I looked at the page. I see posts like "Do you respect your parents?", "Allah, bring peace to all Islamic countries" and "Allah listens and knows what's in your heart". The posts are (obviously) pro-Islam, but your post mentioned something about human rights. You're not clear about what that means to you, but you're implying that this group should not have the right to worship in a manner they are?

I don't see anything wrong with your article, but I'm not going to read the whole thing.

"He who controls the stuffing controls the Universe"

torhu
Member #2,727
September 2002
avatar

Derezo said:

Did you find anything in particular? I looked at the page. I see posts like "Do you respect your parents?", "Allah, bring peace to all Islamic countries" and "Allah listens and knows what's in your heart". The posts are (obviously) pro-Islam, but your post mentioned something about human rights. You're not clear about what that means to you, but you're implying that this group should not have the right to worship in a manner they are?

Wow, I didn't hope to meet a fellow believer here :) I too love suppressing women, sexually mutilating children, and killing people for being homosexuals or freethinkers. But the one thing I love the most of all is torturing people in the name of Allah. Allahu akbar!

EDIT: I got a standard "issue resolved" reply from Facebook. Yay.

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
avatar

Um yeah... The entire religion, and people aren't all a-holes. Sure, there are plenty, but you seem to be assuming that any mention of allah and islam is a bad thing.

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

torhu
Member #2,727
September 2002
avatar

No, you have to look at the Facebook page I posted.

EDIT: But yes, the three big monotheistic religions are generally a bad, bad thing. Which is proven to us again and again, every day, all over the world. People are fooled into believing in a version of reality that does not exist. And that has practical consequences that are often not very positive.

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
avatar

torhu said:

No, you have to look at the Facebook page I posted.

I did. It's all lame "allah loves you" images. Same thing you'd find on a christian page. Also on other random pages that are about one specific subject that has fans.

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

torhu
Member #2,727
September 2002
avatar

I did. It's all lame "allah loves you" images. Same thing you'd find on a christian page. Also on other random pages that are about one specific subject that has fans.

Then you probably don't get the same page I do. I get several pictures of women in burkas, for starters.

Kris Asick
Member #1,424
July 2001

You know, considering how much you hate Facebook I'm surprised you still use it... and before you say anything in response: I do not presently, nor have ever had a Facebook account and I do not want one.

If Facebook aggravates you so much just STOP using it. You'll feel a lot better and you'll be inspiring people to follow suit. If enough people abandon Facebook there'll be little to no more money to make from it and it will die a slow, painful death. :P

--- Kris Asick (Gemini)
--- http://www.pixelships.com

Derezo
Member #1,666
April 2001
avatar

torhu said:

Wow, I didn't hope to meet a fellow believer here :)

I'm not sure what you believe me to believe in, but I'm happy to exceed your hopes in a way that makes you smile.

Quote:

I too love suppressing women, sexually mutilating children, and killing people for being homosexuals or freethinkers. But the one thing I love the most of all is torturing people in the name of Allah. Allahu akbar!

I'm very sorry to hear that and hope you see help soon :(

Any post or other content published through Facebook by the group you cited can be reported using the features available, but I don't know of anyone using this forum who is able to administer the content they posted to Facebook that you found so alarming.

In short, pictures of women in burkas does not qualify as offensive. Your potty mouth does. Sorry :(

"He who controls the stuffing controls the Universe"

OICW
Member #4,069
November 2003
avatar

torhu said:

Then you probably don't get the same page I do. I get several pictures of women in burkas, for starters.

It's their problem that their wearing these. As as long as remains their tradition[1] and they don't force others to do so, I'm quite fine with that. It's not in my power to change that no matter how I disagree with it. Besides, not all Muslim women wear burkas and those who do usually don't want to get rid of them.

torhu said:

I too love suppressing women, sexually mutilating children, and killing people for being homosexuals or freethinkers. But the one thing I love the most of all is torturing people in the name of Allah. Allahu akbar!

That is very distorted view based mostly on the loud crowd of Islamic extreminst minority and excesses in some of the most undeveloped countries. I'd very much advise you to take a trip to Tunisia or even Iran and get among the common folk. I have a friend who'd been in Lybia and Tunisia few years back and he said that the common people there are the most friendly people he had ever met. Another friend of mine was in Iran and told similar story.

So, just my 0.02$

References

  1. Though misinterpreted, because only the women from the prophet's family were obliged to wear these.

[My website][CppReference][Pixelate][Allegators worldwide][Who's online]
"Final Fantasy XIV, I feel that anything I could say will be repeating myself, so I'm just gonna express my feelings with a strangled noise from the back of my throat. Graaarghhhh..." - Yahtzee
"Uhm... this is a.cc. Did you honestly think this thread WOULDN'T be derailed and ruined?" - BAF
"You can discuss it, you can dislike it, you can disagree with it, but that's all what you can do with it"

torhu
Member #2,727
September 2002
avatar

OICW said:

It's their problem that their wearing these. As as long as remains their tradition[1] and they don't force others to do so, I'm quite fine with that. It's not in my power to change that no matter how I disagree with it. Besides, not all Muslim women wear burkas and those who do usually don't want to get rid of them.

I'm sorry, but that's just wrong. Part of the whole coercion is that they are told that this is what Allah wants, this is for the best, etc. Maybe some of them actually buy that, but that still doesn't make it right. A bird that has lived in a cage all its life doesn't know what freedom is. And if someone asks them what they think of wearing a burkha, they know they have to pretend that everything's fine. That's part of the whole thing. I'm sure there are exceptions, but you get the idea.

Why do you feel that this is somehow ok because they are from the Middle East or thereabouts? Do they have different needs, desires and feelings than women from the western world? You seem to be dealing in a kind of moral relativism here.

Quote:

That is very distorted view based mostly on the loud crowd of Islamic extreminst minority and excesses in some of the most undeveloped countries. I'd very much advise you to take a trip to Tunisia or even Iran and get among the common folk. I have a friend who'd been in Lybia and Tunisia few years back and he said that the common people there are the most friendly people he had ever met. Another friend of mine was in Iran and told similar story.

But that's not because they are muslims, it's because they are people. It's just not an argument in this debate.

OICW
Member #4,069
November 2003
avatar

torhu said:

I'm sorry, but that's just wrong. Part of the whole coercion is that they are told that this is what Allah wants, this is for the best, etc.

Now, that is the root of the problem. I'm not an expert on Islam but from what I know and what I read I can tell you this: the only legal language for Koran is Arabic, it is spoken in a minority of Muslim countries, so basically the majority doesn't understand exactly what's written in the text and they pretty much depend on what their imans (their preachers) tell them.

torhu said:

Why do you feel that this is somehow ok because they are from the Middle East or thereabouts? Do they have different needs, desires and feelings than women from the western world? You seem to be dealing in a kind of moral relativism here.

Sure, they are people like you and me. But they are of a different culture, radically different. It is rigidly partiarchal society (reinforced by Burkhas etc.) and deeply religional. You coming there and telling them this and this is wrong because it goes against the human rights would enrage them, they would see it as an attack on their culture and religion. They have the right to believe in what they want to believe.

Simply put, you cannot force onto someone your idea of human rights. That would just invalidate the whole idea. I know it's bad that if some woman in the Middle East doesn't want to obey that stupid law she can't elect not to. But there's no simple way of changing that. The change will hopefully come but it will take some years.

torhu said:

But that's not because they are muslims, it's because they are people. It's just not an argument in this debate.

Let's do it the other way around (no offence intended). How would you feel if I told you that I found practicing your religion (Christianity I assume) disgusting based on the fact that you are eating a body of a dead person. Or let alone try to force you to accept that there's no god because there's no scientific evidence for him?

[My website][CppReference][Pixelate][Allegators worldwide][Who's online]
"Final Fantasy XIV, I feel that anything I could say will be repeating myself, so I'm just gonna express my feelings with a strangled noise from the back of my throat. Graaarghhhh..." - Yahtzee
"Uhm... this is a.cc. Did you honestly think this thread WOULDN'T be derailed and ruined?" - BAF
"You can discuss it, you can dislike it, you can disagree with it, but that's all what you can do with it"

torhu
Member #2,727
September 2002
avatar

OICW said:

Sure, they are people like you and me. But they are of a different culture, radically different. It is rigidly partiarchal society (reinforced by Burkhas etc.) and deeply religional. You coming there and telling them this and this is wrong because it goes against the human rights would enrage them, they would see it as an attack on their culture and religion. They have the right to believe in what they want to believe.

My point is just that what they are doing is very wrong, and you sometimes sound a bit like you don't even agree with that. What to do about it is another discussion.

Quote:

Simply put, you cannot force onto someone your idea of human rights. That would just invalidate the whole idea. I know it's bad that if some woman in the Middle East doesn't want to obey that stupid law she can't elect not to. But there's no simple way of changing that. The change will hopefully come but it will take some years.

Yes, a functioning secular democracy is probably needed for this to become reality for most people in those countries. Some women in Saudi Arabia and Iran are constantly testing the limits even today, which is brave but dangerous.

But some people are even defending other people's "rights" to oppress women in muslim communities in western countries, which to me is just crazy.

Quote:

Let's do it the other way around (no offence intended). How would you feel if I told you that I found practicing your religion (Christianity I assume) disgusting based on the fact that you are eating a body of a dead person. Or let alone try to force you to accept that there's no god because there's no scientific evidence for him?

I would suggest putting it in a different way if you were to tell them what you think. It's about making people understand that they are mistaken, pissing them off usually doesn't help :P

I have an interest in religion because of the negative effects it too often has on people and societies, I have never been religious myself. I think I was about 13 when I put God in the same category as Santa, where he has remained ;D

OICW
Member #4,069
November 2003
avatar

torhu said:

But some people are even defending other people's "rights" to oppress women in muslim communities in western countries, which to me is just crazy.

Now that's a different story, as long as they are here in our countries, they need to obey our laws and respect our way of life. It's unthinkable to defend such oppression around here. But trying to enforce this onto Muslim countries? Well, that's different matter and question warranting a philosophical debate whether doing something forcefully with good intention classify as a good deed. In my opinion, it's doesn't.

Quote:

I would suggest putting it in a different way if you were to tell them what you think. It's about making people understand that they are mistaken, pissing them off usually doesn't help :P

I've made that as exagerated as I could to make the point how Muslims react to what they perceive as an attack on their religion. They take it much too seriously.

Quote:

I have an interest in religion because of the negative effects it too often has on people and societies, I have never been religious myself. I think I was about 13 when I put God in the same category as Santa, where he has remained ;D

That is another root of the problem. You probably were fortunate enough not to grow up in a overly religious family who would force it onto you. I have a friend who didn't have such luck and he's quite hard to discuss with on this matter - he tries to force his (the only right) view onto others. This is the same for the Islamic world. The sad truth is that religion (and mostly Christianity) killed more people than Hitler (since the Godwin's law was already invoked :D) and Stalin combined (inquisition, crusades, etc.)

[My website][CppReference][Pixelate][Allegators worldwide][Who's online]
"Final Fantasy XIV, I feel that anything I could say will be repeating myself, so I'm just gonna express my feelings with a strangled noise from the back of my throat. Graaarghhhh..." - Yahtzee
"Uhm... this is a.cc. Did you honestly think this thread WOULDN'T be derailed and ruined?" - BAF
"You can discuss it, you can dislike it, you can disagree with it, but that's all what you can do with it"

torhu
Member #2,727
September 2002
avatar

OICW said:

I've made that as exagerated as I could to make the point how Muslims react to what they perceive as an attack on their religion. They take it much too seriously.

They have been taught to react in a very aggressive way to criticism to silence the critics. The people who made the religion obviously knew that the claims they were making would not stand up to scrutiny. It's why blasphemy laws still exist.

And another thing on top of that: Because of how religious belief works psychologically, what you perceive as an "attack" on your faith also feels like an attack on you personally. But Christians are (luckily for us) not taught to react with death threats or violence.

Give your friend this link, with my compliments:
http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/your-delusion.htm ;D

OICW
Member #4,069
November 2003
avatar

torhu said:

They have been taught to react in a very aggressive way to criticism to silence the critics.

Only the radical believers do that. Common folk is pretty much OK with you. Hell, even the hospitality there is much bigger than in Western countries.

[My website][CppReference][Pixelate][Allegators worldwide][Who's online]
"Final Fantasy XIV, I feel that anything I could say will be repeating myself, so I'm just gonna express my feelings with a strangled noise from the back of my throat. Graaarghhhh..." - Yahtzee
"Uhm... this is a.cc. Did you honestly think this thread WOULDN'T be derailed and ruined?" - BAF
"You can discuss it, you can dislike it, you can disagree with it, but that's all what you can do with it"

Gideon Weems
Member #3,925
October 2003

Haha, what the hell is going on here?

Also, who uses Facebook? There are better ways to use your time, like making new posts on A.cc.

Fishcake
Member #8,704
June 2007
avatar

torhu said:

They have been taught to react in a very aggressive way to criticism to silence the critics.

I think only extremists do that. Here in Malaysia, I think we are pretty much OK. :P

StevenVI
Member #562
July 2000
avatar

torhu said:

Give your friend this link, with my compliments:
http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/your-delusion.htm ;D

I was curious, so I read this link.

The problem with it is that the entire argument at the end is based on the notion that the Christian god is a genie who grants wishes. I'm not sure that's actually what they believe in...

Cue the religion debate again. ;)

__________________________________________________
Skoobalon Software
[ Lander! v2.5 ] [ Zonic the Hog v1.1 ] [ Raid 2 v1.0 ]

 1   2 


Go to: