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Linux rant
Derezo
Member #1,666
April 2001
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I've been running Kubuntu 13.10 for most of 2014 and have grown to love KDE. Initially I had only two major issues: My wireless was unstable (slow/dropping connection/need to restart every 5-20 minutes) and my Logitech Webcam was too performance demanding to record 720p/1080p and would only do 480p (Linux processes input from the device differently).

I had resolved the wireless issue by manually compiling the drivers and it was good, and I was running the webcam from within a virtual machine to get better performance -- wack, but whatever, it worked, and I need the VM for editing PDFs and other tasks.

I also have general audio problems, pops/clicks/blips regularly. None of the fixes Google gave me did much of anything, but it doesn't happen as often when using Clementine so I just put up with it.

On Monday I bought a USB condenser microphone (no drivers required, universal support), and that's when the trouble really started. The first time I tried to record it was recording at 8Khz and playing back at 41Khz, effectively creating a bunch of garble. The problem was inconsistent, and seemed to come and go depending on the order I opened, closed, and switched devices in Audacity/KMixer. Googling revealed it was a common problem, but the fixes were far more complicated than I wanted to deal with.

There was a kernel update I'd been delaying for a few days, so I updated. Wireless issues returned, and now the same driver package fails to compile, and my microphone is still just as spotty. Audacity seems to become unresponsive occasionally and I need to kill it.

How does one keep up with this stuff? I've learned that my wireless driver is included in the 3.6 kernel, but looking up how to upgrade seems like so much of a hassle with the potential of locking me out of my system that I feel like I'm better off just going back to Windows. :(

Someday I'll come back... but this has really hampered my productivity this weekend >:(

There are so many cool features I'm going to miss. :'(

"He who controls the stuffing controls the Universe"

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
avatar

3.6 kernel? Say what? We're at 3.13, almost 3.14 now. And a new kernel is released every 3 or so. 3.6 is quite old now.

One way I get around issues like that is by just not buying hardware that needs me to compile my own drivers.

No idea what was up with the condenser mic, other than maybe pulse audio being retarded.

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

Derezo
Member #1,666
April 2001
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Err, whoops. Looks like I'm running 3.11. Well then what the heck? I've been reading they are included since 3.6 >:(

Maybe I'll try updating to 3.13 before formatting just to see if it fixes everything.

One way I get around issues like that is by just not buying hardware that needs me to compile my own drivers.

Unfortunately I forgot my time machine behind when I moved out of my last apartment. The laptop is 3 years old, and it has been an excellent machine. I wouldn't know how to check for this prior to purchase even if I did still have my time machine :-/

"He who controls the stuffing controls the Universe"

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
avatar

Derezo said:

Unfortunately I forgot my time machine behind when I moved out of my last apartment. The laptop is 3 years old, and it has been an excellent machine. I wouldn't know how to check for this prior to purchase even if I did still have my time machine :-/

Intel wifi cards are, in general very compatible.

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

Slartibartfast
Member #8,789
June 2007
avatar

In my case most hardware issues I've had have been solved by upgrading to a newer kernel version. When purchasing new hardware I research online how compatible it is with my operating system.
As for owning a time machine - I usually just try a liveCD (or DVD or DOK) before choosing a distribution to make sure everything works out of the box or is easily fixable (I usually first try installing into a VM to check for "general" faults like faulty language support or instability and to "preview" the installation process).

Yes, it sucks that you have to do that and its okay to rant about it :)
Personally, the thing that currently upsets me is that an application can very easily lock up your entire machine with no chance of recovery. Just recently due to a bug I compiled and ran a program that was essentially for (int i=0; true; ++i); and the result was that I had to reboot - I couldn't interact with anything, and even steps like ctrl+alt+F5 had no results so I just restarted the machine. Not only is this very lame, but this system has a multicored CPU, WTF does my computer become unresponsive when using 100% of a single core out of 4? (/end rant)

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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I'm running Slackware 14.1 and don't have any of those problems.

NetworkManager handles wireless flawlessy, although I had to chase down a module for an old Dynex card with a Broadcom chip I bought several years ago.

I did have a problem with audio stopping output after 20 minutes or so back in 2009 running Slackware 12.x but it too works flawlessly now.

I record stuff with arecord (alsa utility) and if I have to convert it to ogg or something I use ffmpeg.

I've never had trouble with the machine locking up except for svgalib programs that grabbed complete control of the keyboard and then got into an endless loop, but using a watchdog timer would have cured that too.

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

Derezo
Member #1,666
April 2001
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After installing windows I learned that one of my problems was overheating :-X
Nothing I mentioned in this thread, but the system shut itself off completely 3 or 4 times in the last month. Did it again shortly after switching to windows and the log had a "thermal warning" -- I'm sure that was in the logs in linux, but I was only checking dmesg and it just said "sending TERM signal" or something.

"He who controls the stuffing controls the Universe"

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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Derezo said:

I'm sure that was in the logs in linux, but I was only checking dmesg and it just said "sending TERM signal" or something.

:(

I've been getting that occasionally with my laptop. Something is causing my Ivy Bridge cpu to not properly throttle back. It's rated as a 2.4Ghz cpu or something, with a 3.6Ghz Turbo, but it wants all cores to stay at 3.4Ghz if theres any kind of load what so ever, on any core. If I load up all 4 cores, my laptop will shutdown after a few minutes.

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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When did you all blow out the dust bunnies?

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

Karadoc ~~
Member #2,749
September 2002
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I've been running Debian on my laptop for a couple of months. It ok, but I can't say I'm impressed by it, even after working through the problems I had when installing it.

The user interface is not always consistent. For example sometimes middle click is paste, sometimes it is scroll. Scrolling with middle click is often inverted compared to scrolling with two-fingers on the touch pad.

Compared to Windows, it's more difficult to get basic information about files with the GUI file browser. Long file names are sometimes truncated (depending on whether they are on the desktop or in the file browser); and the file modification time / date is not lists in the file properties.

It's surprisingly difficult to get some basic OS-wide UI features to work. For example, taking a screenshot, or having a graphical volume indicator appear on the screen when I use my keyboard to change the volume settings.

Some features don't work. For example if I try to 'hibernate' the computer from the log-off menu, it seems to just kill everything I've got running and then turn the computer off. ie. when I turn the computer back on again, it just boots normally and does not recover anything I had open when I selected 'hibernate'. (It's been suggested to me that using a newer kernel might fix that problem, but I don't know how to update the kernel anyway. I'm just using the version that came with the current stable release of the OS.)

Some of the default programs are bad. For example, The GIMP was the default pdf viewer - which is obviously a bad idea. Incidentally, I still prefer 'sumatra PDF' to any of the several PDF viewers I've tried on linux. Actually, there are quite a few staple programs that I use on Windows which I haven't found good replacements for on Linux. eg. sumatra PDF, Notepad++, paint.net, WinMerge.

Some of these things are probably just a matter of trying more software and getting use to working with Linux. But currently, I prefer using Windows.

-----------

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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When did you all blow out the dust bunnies?

Both the CPU and the OS should automatically clock things down to a sustainable speed when theres a thermal problem. It just doesn't seem to be happening, then the laptop shuts itself off.

Even if it is due to dust bunnies it just shouldn't be happening.

It's surprisingly difficult to get some basic OS-wide UI features to work. For example, taking a screenshot, or having a graphical volume indicator appear on the screen when I use my keyboard to change the volume settings.

Weird, works fine for me. kde even binds prtscr to launch kscreenshot with the current screen.

Quote:

Some features don't work. For example if I try to 'hibernate' the computer from the log-off menu, it seems to just kill everything I've got running and then turn the computer off. ie. when I turn the computer back on again, it just boots normally and does not recover anything I had open when I selected 'hibernate'.

Yeah, I've noticed that sometimes the distro doesn't set the hibernation volume on boot, so it won't actually attempt to resume when the computer turns back on. Once it is set though (generally to your swap partition), it tends to work for me.

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

Derezo
Member #1,666
April 2001
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When did you all blow out the dust bunnies?

That's definitely my problem - I never have in 3 years. :-X

"He who controls the stuffing controls the Universe"

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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Not likely to be my problem, my laptop is only a year old. But I went and attacked the intake and exhaust ports with a can of air earlier.

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

beoran
Member #12,636
March 2011

I'm a long time Linux user (since Windows 95 came out), and I think that Linux distributions were steadily getting better until around 2010 to 2012, when tabletitis took hold in the minds of many open source developers and companies. Then we started to get debacles like Gnome 3 or Ubuntu 13... I think it's weird but now that Linux is getting slightly popular, the quality actually seems to be less than what it use to be. I fear that there's too much focus on new features and too few on correctness.

On the other hand, many problems you'll have with Linux, especially laptops are due to hardware makers taking various undocumented shortcuts that they then "solve" in their Windows drivers. Of course, this invariably requires the Linux developers to reduplicate the workarounds for these quirks in the kernel and supprting tools.
All in all, I think it's an acceptable price to pay for enjoying the freedom of an open source OS.

One thing I wonder a bout though is this: when I was a young child, radios and other electronics were still sold with a full schematic so you could fix them yourself. What happened to the culture of full documentation of the hardware? That's one thing that I'd like to return.

Derezo
Member #1,666
April 2001
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beoran said:

many problems you'll have with Linux, especially laptops are due to hardware makers taking various undocumented shortcuts that they then "solve" in their Windows drivers

True, and this is even evident as an issue across different versions of Windows (as I'm sure it is the Mac). Linux really is far more robust, I've just landed in a situation where it is less successful.

"He who controls the stuffing controls the Universe"

pkrcel
Member #14,001
February 2012

beoran said:

One thing I wonder a bout though is this: when I was a young child, radios and other electronics were still sold with a full schematic so you could fix them yourself. What happened to the culture of full documentation of the hardware? That's one thing that I'd like to return.

It's called microelectronics ....my Electronics professor once (when he was showing us that we actually learnt something dissecting a Color TV schematics) said:

Franco Zappa (translated from Italian) said:

You know, in nowadays TVs this beautiful complex scheme would be replaced by 4 big IC blocks that do then job "so much better"...in a sense, our Microelectronics colleagues have torn out all the poetry in there...

Today it would be really difficult to fix electronics, apart from non surface mounted devices...which are a neglibile part of the thing.

It is unlikely that Google shares your distaste for capitalism. - Derezo
If one had the eternity of time, one would do things later. - Johan Halmén

LennyLen
Member #5,313
December 2004
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That and these days, if they gave schematics and somebody electrocuted themselves trying to repair a device, the person could probably sue the manufacturer.

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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I also think that they don't want cloners. I remember reading that the main reason graphic and audio card manufacturers are reluctant to release specs is because it'd be that much easier to reverse engineer their stuff.

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

pkrcel
Member #14,001
February 2012

Well....all valid points.

Unfortunately.

It is unlikely that Google shares your distaste for capitalism. - Derezo
If one had the eternity of time, one would do things later. - Johan Halmén

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
avatar

I also think that they don't want cloners. I remember reading that the main reason graphic and audio card manufacturers are reluctant to release specs is because it'd be that much easier to reverse engineer their stuff.

Meh, its mostly just management wanks thinking it helps. Any half decent EE can reverse engineer anything short of a 6 layer board... It also helps that China is where all these things are made, so either the schematics are leaked, or the board house making the boards just put through an extra couple runs.

Being worried about some other company reversing your highly complicated modern electronic device means you aren't really trying very hard. You should already have the follow up to the device that's being manufactured in the pipeline so that by the time china has cloned your device, you're starting to make the next one.

In the case of video cards specs, its half that some management wank is worried that their main competitor might steal something (even though their competitor already probably has something like that in the works, and you're already using things that that competitor is trying to hide...) and patent/licensing issues where the real owner of the tech wants everything hush hush, partially so noone can "work around" their patents.

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

Phrasz
Member #10,091
August 2008

Wait... who uses a GUI on Linux?

beoran
Member #12,636
March 2011

Hehe, I guess you're joking? Most people do, really. :)

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
avatar

Back when 8 or 16 megs was common, you needed a good reason to fire up X rather than just using the console.

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

Derezo
Member #1,666
April 2001
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CTRL+SHIFT+T isn't reopening a closed tab in Firefox and now I want to go back to Linux.

[Edit: Ironically it was the logitech webcam software >:(]

>:(

I'll be bald by the end of the week for sure.

"He who controls the stuffing controls the Universe"

Slartibartfast
Member #8,789
June 2007
avatar

Firefox is horrible with Windows vs. Linux.
Ctrl+1-9 is Alt+1-9, Ctrl+Shift+y is Ctrl+j, Ctrl+Shift+F5 is Ctrl+Shift+r. I'm not sure who is to blame, but I don't like that guy.

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