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Opinion on Windows 8 on the PC/Laptop
Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
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Windows is dead to me. :'(

Trent Gamblin
Member #261
April 2000
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I've been using Windows 8 full time again but only for the past week. I keep a VNC connection open to my Mac though... I don't have any major complaints. shrug

Tobias Dammers
Member #2,604
August 2002
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OICW said:

A friend of mine runs them and he's satisfied. I asked him about the new UI (which pops up after a win key stroke) and he answered that it works just fine, that it's just me not being able to adapt.

Huh. I think it's more like the OS refuses to adapt to my habits.

Windows is dead to me.

Yes. Verily. They lost me at Vista. They got their act somewhat together with 7, but too little, too late.

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Trent Gamblin
Member #261
April 2000
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Anyone who can't work efficiently with Windows, Mac AND Linux is just unskilled in my books. They all provide everything anyone with a little sense can be productive with.

Karadoc ~~
Member #2,749
September 2002
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gnolam said:
Archon said:

Secondly, is Windows 8 any improvement over Windows 7 (usability, performance, stability, features, etc.)?

None whatsoever.

This article and others like it have led me to believe that there are quite a few nice improvements in Windows 8. Why are you saying there are 'none whatsoever'?

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Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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Anyone who can't work efficiently with Windows, Mac AND Linux is just unskilled in my books.

I can't afford a Mac. Anybody willing to donate? OTOH, my landlord would have a fit, it offends his sense of neatness to see all this computer junk and electrical usage.

“Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded — here and there, now and then — are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty. This is known as "bad luck.”

― Robert A. Heinlein

Mordredd
Member #5,291
December 2004
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I can also work efficiently with pen and paper :)

It's a good coincidence that different flavors of GNU OS in general work better than other OS's for me, but that's not the reason I stick with them.

People usually decide on an emotional level anyways - that's a known fact and applies to other things in life too. If people were to buy cars for practical reasons, we would all be driving neon-colored, small cars with three seats on average, very small engines and narrow tires.

Windows users don't use Windows because they know and like all of its features, but sure you can attribute people who prefer Windows over other OS's to be "safe-players".

People using Macs for the most part are extroverts. A Mac is not a computer, it is a (design) fashion symbol. Sure, it is some kind of a computer in the physical sense, but that's not the main reason you buy a Mac. Everybody wants to be an individual creator, the attitude of the mainstream Maccies pretending to not knowing how that mysterious piece of technology works adds to that.

GNU/Linux users often have opinions on things that nobody is interested in. They talk about stuff like software freedom that a lot of people don't understand. If you know how to work with GNU/Linux, you usually know how (but not necessarily want) to work with a Windows and/or Mac OS computer, depending on how important software freedom is to you (or sometimes just self-staging to others how much of a geek you are, for that case a Mac is also suitable).

Secretly, everyone knows his preference, I think..

LennyLen
Member #5,313
December 2004
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Anyone who can't work efficiently with Windows, Mac AND Linux is just unskilled in my books.

I can get by ok in linux, as it doesn't cost me anything to use it. But I'm sure as hell not going to pay the overinflated price for a Mac just to be efficient in its use.

Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
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I essentially use two pieces of desktop software: a web browser and a text editor, both of which are the same on every platform.

Then I use a wide variety of server software, such as MySQL, PostgreSQL, MongoDB, lightppd, nginx, PHP, gearman, memcache, etc... Most of that runs like crap on Windows and is harder to manage on OS X due to no official package management software. Linux is free and runs all of that software very easily.

I cannot stand OS X's window management or its Finder, so I am mostly just annoyed continuously by it. I do use OS X for iOS development, but nothing else makes sense for that.

Windows only makes sense if you are a gamer or Windows developer.

Trent Gamblin
Member #261
April 2000
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I wasn't saying you have to use it, I was just saying you should be able to. And not complain and blame the OS for being "hard to use".

Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
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I couldn't use Windows unless I was allowed to SSH into a Linux box. :-[

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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And not complain and blame the OS for being "hard to use".

I wouldn't say they are hard to use. But they are annoying and painful to use.

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type568
Member #8,381
March 2007
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The problem is they haven't been compelling enough (to overcome the horrible "modern" ui) to get most people to willingly switch. Pretty much every single review I've read to date says that same thing.

There is some third party tool that brings the U.I to appear like it is Win7, my friend has Win8 that looks entirely like Win7, until he presses few keys to bring up the touch optimized Win 8 U.I.

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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From what I've heard, there is no way to enable the desktop from startup. MS kept removing/disabling methods people found to do it. Sure you can download an app to add the XP/W7 menu back, but that whole modern ui thing at startup is annoying.

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Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
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I think Ubuntu's similar "all-in-one" OS is a disaster as well.

beoran
Member #12,636
March 2011

Well, fortunately there is Xubuntu, or Mint, etc. And there we see the value of ope source. If one Linux vendor screws up, another one can take over very easily until the vender makes amends (if ever).

Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
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I love XUbuntu. :-*

My only source of frustration with it is that the multi-monitor support requires too much clicking to get right (when switching settings). Not sure why in 2013 it doesn't work fully automated like Windows. >:(

(Works fine if you just want to switch from laptop to display, but using both as extended display requires use of xrandr and some sort of extra config tool to automate it.)

CursedTyrant
Member #7,080
April 2006
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From what I've heard, there is no way to enable the desktop from startup. MS kept removing/disabling methods people found to do it. Sure you can download an app to add the XP/W7 menu back, but that whole modern ui thing at startup is annoying.

Um, yes you can (edit: both the menu and desktop at launch, in case it wasn't clear what I meant). I have that set up right now. It's a small thing called Classic Shell[1] (it does do other stuff, but you can select what you want during install), and it's been there since I can remember. Nobody ever took it down AFAIK.

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Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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I'm talking built in. Most people won't bother with addons like that.

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Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

CursedTyrant
Member #7,080
April 2006
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They might if it bothers them. :P After you do that, you essentially have a faster Windows 7, so it's not that bad.

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Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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MS actually went out of their way to disable showing the desktop at startup. More than once. It's silly. you figure they'd let people configure their own computers how ever they want. Turns out, nope.

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Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

CursedTyrant
Member #7,080
April 2006
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I don't think it's computers they're thinking about, TBH (at least not of the desktop variety). It's probably more along the lines of "well, this looks like it might work a lot better on a phone, perhaps I'll give that a try instead". And then they sell more phones. Maybe. Also Surface tablets, which (last I heard) were not selling very well.

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Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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I don't think it's computers they're thinking about, TBH

Definitely.

They always manage to screw up their hardware in some way. Usually in the marketing and pricing. They value their new software and hw much higher than everyone else does, and so, it doesn't sell very well.

From what I heard, the Zune was an excellent music player, probably better than the ipod. But marketing and pricing won out. Same for the surface.

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"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
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Tobias Dammers
Member #2,604
August 2002
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Also Surface tablets, which (last I heard) were not selling very well.

My guess is it's because it tries to cater to two markets, but ultimately sucks at both. For the price of a full-blown laptop ($600), you get a slightly-too-large tablet with a weird sloppy keyboard; you can get almost THREE actual tablets for that price ($220 for a galaxy tab2), or a tablet and a chromebook, or if you look hard enough, a tablet and an actual laptop. (Dell has one for $380, so with the $220 tablet from amazon, you don't even have to look that hard.) Add to that the crushing reviews about the thing basically falling apart, and you have yourself a nice little marketing WTF.

(Works fine if you just want to switch from laptop to display, but using both as extended display requires use of xrandr and some sort of extra config tool to automate it.)

You mean like a two-line bash script and a keyboard hook in your window manager config?

I wasn't saying you have to use it, I was just saying you should be able to.

Why should I? A computer is supposed to be a tool. When the tool is broken, blunt, or simply not the right one, I go find a better one. Why should I learn to work nails into things using an expensive plastic toy screwdriver with annoying blinking lights and sound when I can have a pro-grade hammer for free?

Quote:

And not complain and blame the OS for being "hard to use".

Windows isn't hard to use, it's inefficient, inconsistent, limiting, and badly documented. It's also very expensive and has ridiculous hardware requirements even for the simplest applications.

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Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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You mean like a two-line bash script and a keyboard hook in your window manager config?

Multimonitor works fine for me! but then I use kde :-x

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Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

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