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Ubuntu desktop
van_houtte
Member #11,605
January 2010
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If you want to go without any bloat whatsoever, configure xterm as your window manager (yes, this is possible, and no, it doesn't make much sense). Or ditch X11 entirely - who needs a GUI after all?

wtf, i dont see how ditching GUI would be a good move on the desktop.

I havent had time to play with it, but is Arch the new Gentoo?

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Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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wtf, i dont see how ditching GUI would be a good move on the desktop

Back in the early '90's, when 4 or 8 MEGAbytes of memory was common, this was a viable alternative. You had SVGAlib for graphical stuff without the bloat.

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

van_houtte
Member #11,605
January 2010
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Back in the early '90's, when 4 or 8 MEGAbytes of memory was common, this was a viable alternative. You had SVGAlib for graphical stuff without the bloat.

In the late '90s I was using BeOS, it was a hell lot snappier than linux with a gui and windows

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Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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That's a code word for AmigaOS or what?

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

van_houtte
Member #11,605
January 2010
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That's a code word for AmigaOS or what?

Nah, that's your area of expertise. I did load HaikuOS in a VM, and it booted pretty fast and was very similar to BeOS

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Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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Luiji99 said:

I'd be more prone to abandon GNOME 3 if it weren't for my massive reliance on NetworkManager.

NetworkManager works fine in KDE4 these days.

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Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

Luiji99
Member #12,254
September 2010

I really, really hate KDE4. It is a hell of a lot more bloated then GNOME, at least in the way it feels when I use it.

I havent had time to play with it, but is Arch new new Gentoo?

Your missing an apostrophe, but never mind that. :P I don't know what you mean by "is Arch the new Gentoo" because I don't know what your perception of Gentoo is. I tried Gentoo once, and it took hours to compile a basic system. Arch has the majority of the configuration that Gentoo has, but sacrificing control over compile-time options is well worth the significant amount of time I saved by installing binaries. So many people tell me "Oh, Luiji, it doesn't really take that long to build your software! It's totally worth using Gentoo!" That is not true at all. IT TAKES FOREVER.

Also, Arch has an Allegro 5.x package, which is awesomesauce. I don't know about Gentoo.

Programming should be fun. That's why I hate Java.

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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^^ I didn't say that! >:(

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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Luiji99 said:

I really, really hate KDE4. It is a hell of a lot more bloated then GNOME, at least in the way it feels when I use it.

Yeah, Gnome keeps ripping features out in the name of "Simplicity" (read: We think our users are incapable of making any kind of decision for themselves).

I dunno. KDE runs fine for me, and it does everything I want. None of the other DEs do.

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"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

Luiji99
Member #12,254
September 2010

Yeah...luckily, GNOME hasn't ripped out any of the features I actually care about, yet. The only thing that really bothered me is the new window switching mechanism, but it turns out that it's a bit faster for me now that I've gotten used to it.

I do like the design of KDE. The environment feels very cozy, if you know what I mean. For some reason, though, I can't use it as fast. It takes me longer to start programs, switch windows, configure the desktop, etc. I just don't seem to be compatible with that environment.

Programming should be fun. That's why I hate Java.

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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Turn off the compositor? Or turn animation speeds up.

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Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

Luiji99
Member #12,254
September 2010

Turn of the compositor? Isn't that the program that's letting me have multiple windows up at once? Or am I confusing it with the term "composting window manager"?

Programming should be fun. That's why I hate Java.

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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Luiji99 said:

Turn of the compositor? Isn't that the program that's letting me have multiple windows up at once? Or am I confusing it with the term "composting window manager"?

I should have said "turn of compositing". KWin is the Window manager, and it does compositing. It allows you to turn of the compositing and act like a normal X window manager.

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Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

Tobias Dammers
Member #2,604
August 2002
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Luiji99 said:

I'd be more prone to abandon GNOME 3 if it weren't for my massive reliance on NetworkManager.

Actually, if I could eliminate that limitation I might experiment in writing my own X11 window manager. That'd be a fun thing to try.

You can. NetworkManager is nice and all, but you can just as well drive ifconfig / ifup / ifdown and wpa-supplicant directly from the command line. Using a certain desktop environment just because of the networking is silly. In debian (and I assume Ubuntu can do the same), it's a matter of putting the right stuff in /etc/network/interfaces, and running ifup to bring the interface up (and ifdown to bring it down, duh).

wtf, i dont see how ditching GUI would be a good move on the desktop

That part wasn't actually serious, although I do prefer keyboard-driven textual interfaces for a most things. If it weren't for naturally graphical applications, web browsing, and the fact that I can have several xterms alongside each other, I would seriously consider it though.

In the late '90s I was using BeOS, it was a hell lot snappier than linux with a gui and windows

I've never tried BeOS, but I hear nothing but good things about it. Most likely, the reason for being snappier was that, unlike Linux, it never tried to be multi-user, and it was designed as a graphical OS from scratch (unlike both GNU/Linux, which was and still is primarily a textual OS with some graphics bolted onto it, as well as Windows, which even today has some MS-DOS heritage to drag around). Back then, this stuff mattered a lot.

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Luiji99
Member #12,254
September 2010

Damn it, I forgot about wpa_supplicant. Well, I guess I don't have anything locking me to GNOME anymore. :D

BeOS is nice. It was designed for personal computing and it's really good at it. I'd do more with Haiku if they finally got out of alpha.

Programming should be fun. That's why I hate Java.

van_houtte
Member #11,605
January 2010
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You can. NetworkManager is nice and all, but you can just as well drive ifconfig / ifup / ifdown and wpa-supplicant directly from the command line. Using a certain desktop environment just because of the networking is silly. In debian (and I assume Ubuntu can do the same), it's a matter of putting the right stuff in /etc/network/interfaces, and running ifup to bring the interface up (and ifdown to bring it down, duh).

I dont mean to confuse Luiji99, but ifconfig is an outdated tool, it works well, is recognised by a lot of people but ifconfig is being phased out: http://www.allegro.cc/forums/thread/610751

Get familiar with the ip command http://www.tutorialspoint.com/unix_commands/ip.htm

Quote:

That part wasn't actually serious, although I do prefer keyboard-driven textual interfaces for a most things. If it weren't for naturally graphical applications, web browsing, and the fact that I can have several xterms alongside each other, I would seriously consider it though.

Makes sense, reminds me of the time when a big group of co-workers and I were filling online forms (win7, firefox/exploiter), most people were guiding around the form using the mouse, I was using tab to switch between fields and didnt once lift my hands off the keyboard, while they were navigating with mouse, I had it completed many minutes ahead of them. If you know your way around by keyboard shorcuts you're bound to be many times faster than somebody who navigates by mouse, even for GUI stuff. I use a good mix of console and gui stuff on my linux desktop.

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Luiji99
Member #12,254
September 2010

Yeah, I heard about ifconfig being phased out. I wonder if anybody's written a Perl script to wrap it around the ip command, yet...

I do use keyboard shortcuts a lot and it gets frustrating to watch other people take twice as long to do something as they drag their mouse around the screen. Refresh with F5, don't click that button! F6 brings you to the URL bar, where you can just type in your search item! If you want to get back to the search area on Wikipedia, type Alt-Shift-F! (Don't use that shortcut here, though, or it'll bring you back to the main forum -- found that out by accident just now.) Close your windows with Alt-F4 and bring up the program list in Windows or GNOME by pressing the AltGr key!

Also, I think it's funny that you call Explorer "Exploiter." I wonder if that type of joke can be used on other browsers as easily... Fire Fuck?

Programming should be fun. That's why I hate Java.

MiquelFire
Member #3,110
January 2003
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For the URL bar, I had gotten used to CTRL+L (for searching, CTRL+K as I don't search from the URL bar). If I use keyboard shortcuts or the mouse depends on if my hand is already on the mouse and I need to move my hand to the keyboard to enter the shortcut (which means it would be the same amount of time either way), or if I haven't learned the keyboard shortcut yet for the action I want to do (because the program doesn't expose it to me)

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Gideon Weems
Member #3,925
October 2003

I'm not willing to die for it, but I really like MATE (Linux Mint's fork of GNOME 2). It's responsive and just feels right. The customization's there, but the stock settings don't require overhauling everything.

XCFE and KDE are nice, too--for similar reasons. On the other hand, I hate the new Unity (and the old one, too?). It's like somebody got media PC all over my desktop.

Luiji99
Member #12,254
September 2010

Media PC? I'm not quite sure what you mean by that...a PC intended primarily for the purposes of media and nothing productive?

It's a disgrace that Canonical, Ltd. replaced GNOME 2 with Unity. If they wanted to "modernize" their desktop environment, GNOME 3 functions much better -- much more responsive and less bug prone.

Ack, now I must list all my grievances against Unity:

  • It takes exceedingly long to start an application. WHY???

  • Sometimes when I pin an application to it, it gets an extra entry when I start the program, then fails to start when I use the icon instead of the application searcher. WHY???

  • It freezes. WHYYYY???

No offense to Unity users. If you like that environment, go ahead and use it. For me, it's inferior, but if you are more productive in it then I commend your choice.

Programming should be fun. That's why I hate Java.

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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Luiji99 said:

It's a disgrace that Canonical, Ltd. replaced GNOME 2 with Unity. If they wanted to "modernize" their desktop environment, GNOME 3 functions much better -- much more responsive and less bug prone.

I'm sure you're aware of this, but just to make sure... Canonical started Unity before Gnome even thought about Gnome Shell. Gnome 3 was pretty much just the result of Gnome looking around at reality and noticing that they were falling behind. All these media devices with shiny uis, KDE4, OSX and Windows 7+ with shiny useful uis and canonical deciding to go its own way, and gnome still stuck with what ever it is Gnome 2 had (;)). But hey at least they managed to cut even more features out of Gnome with Gnome 3.

Quote:

Sometimes when I pin an application to it, it gets an extra entry when I start the program, then fails to start when I use the icon instead of the application searcher. WHY???

Unity enforces one process per app at a time. So it won't launch a program a second time if its currently running. Its a lot like Windows 7's quick launch buttons that merge with task bar buttons, just integrated with the entire unity interface.

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Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

Luiji99
Member #12,254
September 2010

It enforces one process per app? The program I was talking about was the Terminal! Why didn't they fix the terminal if they're going to do something like that? Why is that even enforced?

I forgot that Unity came first...my bad. I get the order of things mixed up, which is why I tend to avoid speculating who stole what from who. (Did KDE come up with the idea to expand windows when you drag it to the sides first or did Windows?)

Yeah, it's sort of bad that GNOME keeps extracting features. So far they haven't touched anything I care about, though, so I'm in the green (for now). If I have to switch again I'll probably just write a little task bar of my own based on Haiku's lovely design and plaster it onto OpenBox.

Programming should be fun. That's why I hate Java.

Gideon Weems
Member #3,925
October 2003

Luiji99 said:

Media PC? I'm not quite sure what you mean by that...a PC intended primarily for the purposes of media and nothing productive?

Yes, but now that I think about it, Unity felt more like a tablet/desktop hybrid than anything. Plus, as you mentioned, it's slow.

Honestly, though, I probably only spent an hour or two before dropping it and never looking back--so it's not like I've delved into whatever beautiful customization features it might have under the hood... So many DEs; so little time.

Forcing one process per app sounds ridiculous... Are you stuck with one tab for Chromium?

Luiji99
Member #12,254
September 2010

Perhaps its one master process per application, and Unity recognizes child processes as they were. In such a case, Chromium would run fine.

As far as I can tell Unity is not too configurable. Pretty much everything's where it'll stay. I don't recall whether or not it supports themes, though...

Now I'm curious about our general experience in the search for DEs. I've used these:

  • GNOME 2

  • GNOME 3

  • KDE 4

  • XFCE

  • LXDE

  • Enlightenment

  • Unity

I've also used a few window managers without associated desktop environments, like Awesome and OpenBox. Back when GNOME let me choose which window manager to use, I used OpenBox there, too.

Programming should be fun. That's why I hate Java.

Todd Cope
Member #998
November 2000
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Luiji99 said:

The program I was talking about was the Terminal!

You can open an extra terminal by right-clicking and selecting "New Window" or something like that. You can also middle-click to make a new one. Middle-click works with all apps, supposedly.

Unity has gotten faster in Ubuntu 12.04. I use it on my netbook which also has Windows 7. Ubuntu with Unity is much faster than Windows on that machine. Launching apps in Windows takes "forever" by comparison.

I suppose after having used OS X for a while, Unity was much easier for me to like. I remember how much I struggled at first to get accustomed to the Dock, and Unity's Launcher is very similar.

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