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Uh-Oh, here comes a God vs Science thread
Dizzy Egg
Member #10,824
March 2009
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Sooo...I've been spending some time watching lectures and reading articles regarding the Universe, and more specifically the death of stars. What do people who believe God created the heaven and the Earth think about this stuff; I'm not saying your wrong, I'm just (maybe dangerously) curious about how people feel about these discoveries. i.e, we are made from stardust...the Universe is billions of billions of years old...does it shake yer faith?

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23yrold3yrold
Member #1,134
March 2001
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Dizzy Egg said:

we are made from stardust...the Universe is billions of billions of years old...does it shake yer faith?

Is there a reason why it would?

Religion is not science and vice versa. They aren't related. They each have basically zero effect on the other.

Also, in before the lock. :P

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van_houtte
Member #11,605
January 2010
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In before the lock

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Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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Religion is not science and vice versa. They aren't related. They each have basically zero effect on the other.

Religion is about patting your inner child on the head and telling him it'll be OK. Science is about finding out what's what.

“Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded — here and there, now and then — are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty. This is known as "bad luck.”

― Robert A. Heinlein

23yrold3yrold
Member #1,134
March 2001
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Religion is about patting your inner child on the head and telling him it'll be OK. Science is about finding out what's what.

We're aware of your belief system, yes. ::) I think you're describing positive affirmations more than anything. ;D

Still kinda curious why Dizzy believes God is at odds with science. Is there a single major religion that the information in the first post contradicts? Honest question. Anyone know?

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Software Development == Church Development
Step 1. Build it.
Step 2. Pray.

Vanneto
Member #8,643
May 2007

Dizzy Egg said:

we are made from stardust...the Universe is billions of billions of years old...does it shake yer faith?

Didn't read the recent threads did ya? :P

In capitalist America bank robs you.

AMCerasoli
Member #11,955
May 2010
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I'm going to give you and answer but I don't know how are you going to take it, but you wanted so... God... Doesn't... Exist... Tan.. tan.. tan.............. :o

Onewing
Member #6,152
August 2005
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God... Doesn't... Exist...

Phew, thanks! I was about to make a HUGE mistake.... ::)

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cgman24
Member #12,536
February 2011
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God... Doesn't... Exist...

Would you bet on it?

Dizzy Egg
Member #10,824
March 2009
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I haven't explained myself very well...I mean more, if you believe that God created us, what do you think when its proved that, well, he didn't...or do you start to bend things, like "oh well no what we mean is God created the stars in order for them to create you, so, he did create you, indirectly"

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Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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I think you're describing positive affirmations more than anything.

Euphemism ("positive affirmation") is bullshit. Same thing as reassuring your primitive emotional side.

cgman24 said:

Would you bet on it?

Yep. I also believe the money I've saved on "Make Money Fast" spams along with the relief of not worrying about it outweighs the possibility that I'm missing something.

“Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded — here and there, now and then — are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty. This is known as "bad luck.”

― Robert A. Heinlein

Neil Black
Member #7,867
October 2006
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Dizzy Egg said:

I haven't explained myself very well...I mean more, if you believe that God created us, what do you think when its proved that, well, he didn't...or do you start to bend things, like "oh well no what we mean is God created the stars in order for them to create you, so, he did create you, indirectly"

I don't see that as bending things. The Bible clearly states that God made us from the dust of the ground. The fact that the dust of the ground was made from the dust of exploded stars isn't a contradiction.

J-Gamer
Member #12,491
January 2011
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So you're saying that God influenced the evolutionary path of the human being?
That would be an interesting interpretation :P

" There are plenty of wonderful ideas in The Bible, but God isn't one of them." - Derezo
"If your body was a business, thought would be like micro-management and emotions would be like macro-management. If you primarily live your life with emotions, then you are prone to error on the details. If you over-think things all the time you tend to lose scope of priorities." - Mark Oates

Neil Black
Member #7,867
October 2006
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J-Gamer said:

So you're saying that God influenced the evolutionary path of the human being?

No... I haven't said anything about evolution. Some do make that claim, though.

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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J-Gamer said:

So you're saying that God influenced the evolutionary path of the human being?

What's wrong with that idea? We influence the evolutionary paths of sporting dogs, thoroughbred racehorses, and people with glasses all the time, and we're not even omnipotent.

“Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded — here and there, now and then — are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty. This is known as "bad luck.”

― Robert A. Heinlein

J-Gamer
Member #12,491
January 2011
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See my next sentence... I find that an interesting idea.

[EDIT]
@Neil: Then how do you explain we came into existence trough the work of God if you know that we evolved from the apes?

" There are plenty of wonderful ideas in The Bible, but God isn't one of them." - Derezo
"If your body was a business, thought would be like micro-management and emotions would be like macro-management. If you primarily live your life with emotions, then you are prone to error on the details. If you over-think things all the time you tend to lose scope of priorities." - Mark Oates

SiegeLord
Member #7,827
October 2006
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cgman24 said:

Would you bet on it?

I'd bet more on it than I would on Earth poofing out of existence (#1 on this list).

"For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increases knowledge increases sorrow."-Ecclesiastes 1:18
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Neil Black
Member #7,867
October 2006
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J-Gamer said:

Then how do you explain we came into existence trough the work of God if you know that we evolved from the apes?

Because I don't know that we evolved from apes. I'm one of those wacky creationists. ;)

Over the last year or so I've been coming around to the conclusion that evolution and religion are not necessarily at odds. I still don't believe in it, but I have more respect for the religious people who do.

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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Because I don't know that we evolved from apes. I'm one of those wacky creationists.

A couple days ago, I had a cramp in my foot. As I contemplated this foot I'm blessed with (it's one of those with a big gap between the big toe and the other toes) I considered why such a gap would happen unless it's a throwback to an opposable big toe for climbing trees.

“Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded — here and there, now and then — are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty. This is known as "bad luck.”

― Robert A. Heinlein

Neil Black
Member #7,867
October 2006
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I know, it's fascinating.

23yrold3yrold
Member #1,134
March 2001
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J-Gamer said:

So you're saying that God influenced the evolutionary path of the human being?
That would be an interesting interpretation :P

That's not even a new interpretation. The Bible is almost completely silent on history before a few thousand years ago so I don't understand why people think what happened a billion years prior contradicts it. It is quite literally not even a valid topic of discussion.

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Software Development == Church Development
Step 1. Build it.
Step 2. Pray.

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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The Bible is almost completely silent on history before a few thousand years ago

What happened to Usher's calculation that creation is ~6000 years old? If you say a "day" is an indeterminate amount of time, well, then you're redefining words to mean whatever you want, and they're worthless.

“Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded — here and there, now and then — are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty. This is known as "bad luck.”

― Robert A. Heinlein

Elias
Member #358
May 2000

I thought the bible starts with the creation of the universe on page 1? So it would go back about 14 billion years.

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23yrold3yrold
Member #1,134
March 2001
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What happened to Usher's calculation that creation is ~6000 years old?

I don't know; what happened to it? You must have edited it out of your post so I couldn't see it ...

Elias said:

I thought the bible starts with the creation of the universe on page 1?

It doesn't. That or it's an extremely succinct Genesis 1:1, because the Earth is sitting there fully formed in Genesis 1:2 ...

--
Software Development == Church Development
Step 1. Build it.
Step 2. Pray.

Elias
Member #358
May 2000

Well, at least in my version it does :P [1]

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