Allegro.cc - Online Community

Allegro.cc Forums » Off-Topic Ordeals » Egypt

This thread is locked; no one can reply to it. rss feed Print
Egypt
axilmar
Member #1,204
April 2001

Er, what? You have evidence that without religion, humans wouldn't keep fighting with equal fervour over some other excuse? Can I see how you would even attempt to prove that? How many religions even encourage the deaths of non-believers, anyway?

No, evidence for religions being a product of man's imagination.

Quote:

Listening to you and bam and every other ignorant atheist lecture me on my beliefs

Why do you feel that? I am not lecturing you on anything.

And why do you call us ignorant? how do you know we are so? if you know something we don't know, please share it with us. I'd like to be enlightened.

Quote:

Truth, for openers

So, the reason you search for the Truth is ...Truth?

May I ask why do you seek Truth in religion?

Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
avatar

axilmar said:

No, evidence for religions being a product of man's imagination.

The disconnect between question and answer is comical. ;D

Tobias Dammers
Member #2,604
August 2002
avatar

{"name":"Spaghetti_Monster.jpg","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/3\/6\/36cc48784835c1fae159ef3c1eb5a22a.jpg","w":792,"h":612,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/3\/6\/36cc48784835c1fae159ef3c1eb5a22a"}Spaghetti_Monster.jpg
'nuff said.

---
Me make music: Triofobie
---
"We need Tobias and his awesome trombone, too." - Johan Halmén

Neil Black
Member #7,867
October 2006
avatar

gnolam said:

Well, most major religions require "faith", which is defined as "belief that is not based on proof".

Or "complete confidence in a person or plan".

People who define faith as "belief that is not based on proof" are, in my experience, overwhelmingly non-religious. One could almost say that your belief in that definition is not based on proof. ;)

I compliment your faith in your definition of faith. ;D

23yrold3yrold
Member #1,134
March 2001
avatar

Quote:
axilmar said:

No, evidence for religions being a product of man's imagination.

The disconnect between question and answer is comical. ;D

Yeah, um, are we having the same conversation anymore, axilmar? O_o I repeat; remove religion and people would find a new excuse to fight. Because that's all religion is in these wars; a convenient, easy excuse. Remove it and the next most easy and convenient excuse will fill the void. It's called human nature.

Quote:

Why do you feel that? I am not lecturing you on anything.

And why do you call us ignorant? how do you know we are so? if you know something we don't know, please share it with us. I'd like to be enlightened.

I know what I think, which is what you're "lecturing" on. A comment like "They seek comfort" or "people aren't allowed to think for themselves" is inherently insulting to anyone for whom it isn't true, and I can speak with full authority on that being the case for me in particular. I know tons of atheists who disprove what you guys say atheists think all the time, but you don't see me telling you what you think. At least I don't believe I do. If I have, can someone point it out? Sarcasm doesn't count. ;)

Quote:

May I ask why do you seek Truth in religion?

Is there a reason why I would automatically choose not to seek truth in any given location? That would be an excellent way to deny oneself insight, if one were trying to do that ...

What are the "benifits" (I guess)?

Um ... free dental? Donuts on Fridays? "Avandra's Rescue" once an encounter? I'm not sure what you mean by "benefits" ...

--
Software Development == Church Development
Step 1. Build it.
Step 2. Pray.

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
avatar

That's one definition, but not the one encouraged by a lot of religions (despite what the atheists constantly assert). Lots of religious leaders, maybe ...

Or "complete confidence in a person or plan".

People who define faith as "belief that is not based on proof" are, in my experience, overwhelmingly non-religious. One could almost say that your belief in that definition is not based on proof. ;)

I compliment your faith in your definition of faith. ;D

{"name":"picard-facepalm.jpg","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/2\/5\/256b6a8ff2b0c0edd797ae9391a8ae8a.jpg","w":700,"h":528,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/2\/5\/256b6a8ff2b0c0edd797ae9391a8ae8a"}picard-facepalm.jpg

I know tons of atheists who disprove what you guys say atheists think all the time, but you don't see me telling you what you think.

Atheists don't gather every week to synchronize their beliefs (generally to a religious leader, as you so cautiously emphasized earlier). It's not in the least bit relevant. If there are any Christians or Muslims that intentionally and consciously don't attend these meetings and keep their beliefs entirely personal then let them speak now or forever hold their peace. :P

23yrold3yrold
Member #1,134
March 2001
avatar

Neil Black's definition is the correct one. It's also the first one, not the one you feel like picking to conform to your own beliefs. Sorry. ::)

bamccaig said:

Atheists don't gather every week to synchronize their beliefs. It's not in the least bit relevant.

Which makes it all the more amusing when they talk like they do. You're not paying attention to the spectacle, are you? ;D

--
Software Development == Church Development
Step 1. Build it.
Step 2. Pray.

Edgar Reynaldo
Major Reynaldo
May 2007
avatar

bamccaig said:

If there are any Christians or Muslims that intentionally and consciously don't attend these meetings and keep their beliefs entirely personal then let them speak now or forever hold their peace.

I'm a Christian, and I don't go to church. Going to church just makes you a church goer, which is not the same thing, not that there's anything wrong with going to church, and it doesn't mean that you're automatically fake either.

While we're on the topic of religion :

1) Neil Roy, the quote in your signature is out of context, and just plain wrong.

John 3:13 said:

And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but He That came down from heaven, even the Son of man Which is in heaven.

All it means is that you can't go back to heaven if you didn't come from there in the first place. Ergo, we all came from heaven to begin with.

2) The FSM is an abomination, and a mockery of all religion. Have some respect. You don't see me saying all the atheists are going to Hell, do you? Well, you might be, but that's up to God to decide. You all might as well get on his good side while you can.

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
avatar

Neil Black's definition is the correct one. It's also the first one, not the one you feel like picking to conform to your own beliefs. Sorry. ::)

Something based on fact isn't confidence. It's knowledge. Confidence seems to dictate a belief that is not based on proof. :P

According to dictionary.reference.com at the time of writing:

Confidence is defined as "belief in the powers, trustworthiness, or reliability of a person or thing". Belief is defined as "something believed; an opinion or conviction" (i.e., not factual). Conviction is defined as "a fixed or firm belief" (i.e., a closed mind). :P

This thread is beginning to remind me of a pet peeve. People that redefine words on the fly to support their beliefs or motives... :-X

23yrold3yrold
Member #1,134
March 2001
avatar

bamccaig said:

Something based on fact isn't confidence. It's knowledge. Confidence seems to dictate a belief that is not based on proof.

With all due respect, I would offer that that is a practical impossibility. Simple cause and effect; people don't think things for no reason. If they have real confidence in something, it's because they have a reason to. Maybe you'd like to interpret the definition as such, but that seems a little too academic. In reality, if someone has confidence in something, that confidence is based on something. If it weren't, they wouldn't have it. Is this not self-evident? Nothing you posted contradicts this, though you seem to be trying hard to make it ... and then complain that other people redefine words ...

--
Software Development == Church Development
Step 1. Build it.
Step 2. Pray.

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
avatar

The FSM is an abomination, and a mockery of all religion. Have some respect.

It originated as a backlash against forcing "creation science" in the classroom. Have some respect.

http://www.venganza.org/about/open-letter/

[EDIT]

It's similar to kissing Hank's ass

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

Neil Black
Member #7,867
October 2006
avatar

I, for one, think the FSM is hilarious. May he touch you with his noodly* appendage.

* One of the suggested "correct" spellings for noodly was "ungodly"... is that irony?

Edgar Reynaldo
Major Reynaldo
May 2007
avatar

It originated as a backlash against forcing "creation science" in the classroom.

Even if it was the misguided kind of so called 'creation science' that says the Earth is only 6000 years old, that's no reason to mock all religion together.

Arthur Kalliokoski said:

Have some respect.

I will never have respect for blatant blasphemy. Why you would give respect to a mockery of all religion I don't know.

Galatians 6:7-8 said:

7 Be not deceived. God is not mocked : for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption : but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
avatar

I will never have respect for blatant blasphemy.

That's what I tell people when they ask me if I want a Coca Cola instead of a proper Pepsi Cola.

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

Edgar Reynaldo
Major Reynaldo
May 2007
avatar

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
avatar

The FSM is an abomination, and a mockery of all religion. Have some respect. You don't see me saying all the atheists are going to Hell, do you? Well, you might be, but that's up to God to decide. You all might as well get on his good side while you can.

Whats your opinion on Scientology? Note lots of powerful people seem to believe in it, and would strike you down should you say its a mockery or blaspheme.

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

Edgar Reynaldo
Major Reynaldo
May 2007
avatar

Whats your opinion on Scientology?

I think it's a bunch of hooey. Hocus pokus. Malarkey. Gibberish. Sue me.

Thomas Fjellstrom said:

Note lots of powerful people seem to believe in it, and would strike you down should you say its a mockery or blaspheme.

God wins in the end. I'm on his side. I'm not worried. The kooks can believe whatever they want to.

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
avatar

And a few million Muslims say the same about Allah.

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

Edgar Reynaldo
Major Reynaldo
May 2007
avatar

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
avatar

In my version, nobody finds out anything, much like I don't remember before I was born.

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

Edgar Reynaldo
Major Reynaldo
May 2007
avatar

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
avatar

A happy now, while I'm still alive, since I don't have to follow a bunch of arbitrary rules about how my food was prepared, etc.

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

Edgar Reynaldo
Major Reynaldo
May 2007
avatar

Matthew 15:10-11 said:

10 And He called the multitude, and said unto them, "Hear, and understand :
11 Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man."

But then there's Leviticus chapter 11, which says which animals are clean to eat and are unclean to eat. I don't think there's much in the way of preparing food except not to drink blood.

Anyway, while you're still around, would you mind doing me a favor and testing out my latest Clipboard for Linux (instructions , latest source)? I'll even give you a Pepsi.
{"name":"46491-PepsiL.jpg","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/6\/d\/6d2473131d20db534cc5d618159aabc6.jpg","w":300,"h":350,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/6\/d\/6d2473131d20db534cc5d618159aabc6"}46491-PepsiL.jpg

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
avatar

I think it's a bunch of hooey. Hocus pokus. Malarkey. Gibberish. Sue me.
God wins in the end. I'm on his side. I'm not worried. The kooks can believe whatever they want to.

::)

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

Tobias Dammers
Member #2,604
August 2002
avatar

The FSM is an abomination, and a mockery of all religion. Have some respect. You don't see me saying all the atheists are going to Hell, do you?

I'm full of respect for people in search of explanations. However, any such explanation that trivially violates elementary logic deserves the fullest possible load of mockery, especially when it willingly and knowingly denies observable facts, like the Creationist movement the FSM was originally targeted at.

The FSM does not mock all religion, only the naive kind that is so ridiculously wrong that it can be mocked this way. It is a parody, designed to demonstrate the rhetoric and argumentative devices employed in organized religions; if this hurts your religious feelings, then chances are your religion does the same thing.

So, go ahead and mock my Atheism if you can. Don't worry, I can take it.

I think it's a bunch of hooey. Hocus pokus. Malarkey. Gibberish. Sue me.

That's exactly how I think about pretty much every single naive theist religion ever invented.

On the whole faith discussion:
It doesn't matter how exactly you define the word "faith", but in my world, there is no way we can ever know anything for sure. Scientific method is the next best thing; it strives to explain as much of the world as possible with the smallest possible set of assumptions, and it has come a long way.
When we use the word "faith" in the context of spirituality and religion, we are usually talking about a belief that is not backed by scientific methods. There is nothing wrong with this, unless such the particular belief is provably false. There are countless examples of logical fallacies in religion, I won't go into this. Look them up yourself if you're interested.

---
Me make music: Triofobie
---
"We need Tobias and his awesome trombone, too." - Johan Halmén



Go to: