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5.1/7.1 on stereo headphones. how does that work then
Neil Walker
Member #210
April 2000
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Question's in the topic really :)

http://www.turtlebeach.com/products/audio-processors/ear-force-dss.aspx

I'm reading mixed reviews on this, some really good saying the sound does, well, surrounds you, but some just average reviews saying it's just slightly improved stereo.

Anyway, I get that it's a 7.1 processor, etc. but what I don't is how can it make my ears hear things behind, on top, etc when the headphone only has two speakers?

Neil.
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blargmob
Member #8,356
February 2007
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It's probably just faking it with a matrix decoder or something.

The bottom line is: If you don't have the speakers for each individual channel, then you aren't truly getting 5.1/7.1 sound.

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Neil Walker
Member #210
April 2000
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so do you reckon I'll be wasting my $80?

It's more for gaming than films.

Neil.
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Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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As long as they are a decent set of headphones, its probably worth the $80 if you think you want a good pair.

I bought a $80 pair of Sennheisers like 6-8 years ago, and they still work great. I had to replace the cable once, but that only cost $10 (replaceable cable ftw!). Before I got them I was spending $20-40 on headphones every year or two. So far I've saved a ton, and the sound quality out of these Sennheisers is awesome.

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blargmob
Member #8,356
February 2007
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I don't really think it'd be a waste, just don't expect true 5.1/7.1

They probably sound pretty good though for gaming. I still use my old Turtle Beach Earforce X1's for my PC and they sound great.

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Neil Walker
Member #210
April 2000
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As long as they are a decent set of headphones

no, this is just a processor that you connect to your current headphones and it turns your headphones into a surround set.

I have these (turtle beach X11) and they are very nice:
http://www.turtlebeach.com/products/xbox-gaming-headsets/ear-force-x11.aspx

I'm just wondering whether it'll actually give me any kind of surround sound experience worth $80

Neil.
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blargmob
Member #8,356
February 2007
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Your PC does this already.

Go into your sound device settings for your speakers/headset and go to the "Effects" tab and enable something called "Virtual Surround" or something.

You should notice the difference instantly with games and music.

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Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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no, this is just a processor that you connect to your current headphones and it turns your headphones into a surround set.

Then I'd say don't bother.

Quote:

I'm just wondering whether it'll actually give me any kind of surround sound experience worth $80

It won't be true surround, but it might give the illusion of it.

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AMCerasoli
Member #11,955
May 2010
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Well I'm not expert, but how do you think your ears know when something is behind you? I think is just a matter of equalization, you don't have 5.1/7.1 ears, so I think the human uses apart from the ears another senses to know where the sounds come from... I don't know, the size of the room where you're... nor the distance between objects... I don't know... I shouldn't drink while I write posts...

blargmob
Member #8,356
February 2007
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how do you think your ears know when something is behind you?

Latency between your two ears.

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Tobias Dammers
Member #2,604
August 2002
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Latency between your two ears.

Nope, that won't work.
What does work though is the way the sounds travels through the outer ear; the particular shape actually produces two signals, front and rear, and one of them travels slightly longer. This microscopic delay is enough for our ear (or rather, the brain) to calculate front/rear orientation.

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SiegeLord
Member #7,827
October 2006
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Latency between your two ears.

There is no latency when the sound is equidistant from both ears.

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Neil Walker
Member #210
April 2000
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So, knowing about how the inner and out ear works, will this show that technically you can get some kind of surround sound in stereo headphones ;)

Neil.
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SiegeLord
Member #7,827
October 2006
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So, knowing about how the inner and out ear works, will this show that technically you can get some kind of surround sound in stereo headphones ;)

Except that every individual has differently shaped ears, so anything like that would require a lot of tuning by the user :P.

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Slartibartfast
Member #8,789
June 2007
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90$?! That sounds like quite a bit when you can get something like these for 16$. (discount from 50$)
I don't know how they are built (== I don't know if there are really more than two speakers there), but these are earphones that claim to be 5.1 and not just a device that will make stereo earphones sound surround.

Then there's stuff like this where they specifically state that they have

Quote:

Eight discrete drivers (six for mid-high frequency, two for sub-woofer)
Six-channel analog input
Individual volume controls: front, rear, center, bass and master

Which I think means it's true surround in the sense that there really is a speaker coming from the back, the side and the front, and that sounds more promising than a software emulation of surround on stereo. (but those cost 130$)

gnolam
Member #2,030
March 2002
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but what I don't is how can it make my ears hear things behind, on top, etc when the headphone only has two speakers?

It's a combination of volume, delay and frequency response (i.e. the HRTF).

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blargmob
Member #8,356
February 2007
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Latency

Nope, that won't work.

::)

The human auditory system uses several cues for sound source localization, including time- and level-differences between both ears

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Tobias Dammers
Member #2,604
August 2002
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Time difference between the ears can be used for left/right, but not for front/rear.

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Timorg
Member #2,028
March 2002

All they need to do is detect head orientation to the screen. If I turn my head to the left, sound behind me should arrive at my left ear earlier.

It also does make me wonder, how much information do we gather about if a sounds location from visual queues. For example ff I can see what is making the noise, it must be in front of me. If sound hits my ears at the same time, it must be somewhere directly in front or behind the orientation of my head, (ignoring vertical distance). I 1st check if the sound is in front of me, if it isn't it must be behind me. Under the same idea, if I hear a sound is to the right of me, I turn my head to the right, and just keep turning until I see the source of the sound.

Without being easily able to turn the orientation of my head, I don't think any amount of processing is going to be able to to help someone properly distinguish sounds in front or behind them.

That is a limitation of first person games, in general, you can not change the orientation of your head, without changing the orientation of your whole body. I am sure adding that functionality to the game would just add confusion and add nothing to the play experience.

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Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
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Wouldn't a four speaker * set of headphones be sufficient to encompass 360 degrees of sound? ???

*2 left, 2 right, with each pair angled 45 degrees from each other.

Now my understanding of pressure waves is thin, but I think you should be able to produce a pressure wave at any angle (-45 deg to +45 deg) to the ear using those cones. As in -45 deg is full forward (and only the rear speaker plays), +45 degree (only the front speaker plays) and 0 degrees is directly into the ear so both speakers play at half volume producing a wave directed inward to the ear.

It appears my idea may be substantiated:

{"name":"LTB-HEADPHONE.jpg","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/1\/f\/1f9d917afd932d784c2f071f989095d5.jpg","w":400,"h":381,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/1\/f\/1f9d917afd932d784c2f071f989095d5"}LTB-HEADPHONE.jpg

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Ron Novy
Member #6,982
March 2006
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The short answer is... No. It doesn't work. By the design, it looks like they are down mixing to stereo. They could be doing something tricky like using a low-pass filter on the rear, but that still isn't surround.

And real gamers don't use headphones.

They have giant speaker systems that are so loud they blow the clothes off of every women in a 2 mile radius.

They have real guns as controllers... With real ammo!

They have Chuck Norris come to their house and drop kick them into submission... But they usually pass out and soil themselves first when they realize Chuck Norris is coming...

Real gamers don't play games... They are the game!

;D I'm bored...

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Johan Halmén
Member #1,550
September 2001

Stereo/spatial/surround sound requiers two ears and an actively moving/tilting head. The headphones would need some tilt sensors to really be able to create the surround effect. If the headphone follows the head movement and the audio signal doesn't react to the movement, there's no way the audio that comes to one ear would be anything else than one single combined signal. The ear wouldn't tell the brain any directions.

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Ron Novy
Member #6,982
March 2006
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Just wear three sets of headphones like everybody else...

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type568
Member #8,381
March 2007
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Ron Novy said:

And real gamers don't use headphones.

Ooh, hell they do.. All professionals do. I do not however(nor am I a professional gamer).

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