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Marijuana
Don Freeman
Member #5,110
October 2004
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It's funny that the hippy generation is trying to flip the script now. Talk about hypocrisy! :-X

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LennyLen
Member #5,313
December 2004
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but it just won't happen that alcoholics rob cars and people to get money for their addiction.

It happens all the time! And not just people with drug (illegal, prescription, alcohol, tobacco) addictions, but people with gambling addiction as well.

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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And politicians too! Well, they don't rob cars, they just tell the car manufacturing company how it should be run (even though they (the politicians) never had a job in the real world)

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

Bruce Perry
Member #270
April 2000

Evert said:

So how come tourists forget this little bit of common sense wisdom and end up overdoing their drug intake when they go to the Netherlands?

Bloody tourists, they're all the same.

Quote:

You're equating drug use and drug abuse, but you've probably been brainwashed to think these are the same thing. Yes, drug abuse will do that to you. Doesn't matter if it's marijuana, alcohol or nicotine (although I've never heard of anyone's life going down the gutter due to nicotine).

Nevertheless, I stand by my statement about "the going theory".

Your argument that drugs don't ruin everyone's life is valid. I don't see why you feel the need to persuade other people that they should risk letting it ruin their lives because it doesn't ruin everyone's.

I have to go, but I may or may not reply more fully later ;)

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The brxybrytl has you.

Mark Oates
Member #1,146
March 2001
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I have to go, but I may or may not reply more fully later ;)

loud-n-clear. :P

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decepto
Member #7,102
April 2006
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Update:

Bah, the marijuana didn't help. It just made me really paranoid for about 45 minutes. Then I got dry mouth and the munchies. Definitely not conducive to sleep. In fact, I got the exact opposite of what I wanted.

Well, it was worth a try. :-/

--------------------------------------------------
Boom!

Mark Oates
Member #1,146
March 2001
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well... sounds like you smoked too much or too hard. :P

Take it slow, calm inhalations. For a 'softer' smoke, inhale from with both your mouth and nose to mix with oxygen.

Look at me, I'm giving weed tips ::)

edit: a lot of people will say if you cough it's a good thing, but those are the keg-stand frat boys. If you're coughing then it's because you took a big hit - don't if you're trying to relax.

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Ron Novy
Member #6,982
March 2006
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If sleep is all you want then do this... Go for a walk at night... Stay away from blue lights, tv's and computer monitors. Blue light signals certain reactions in the body that won't give you a good nights sleep... A long walk will no doubt tire you out, make you thirsty and possibly give you the munchies. Marijuana will just make you lazy and not necessarily tired...

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jhuuskon
Member #302
April 2000
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we sang a song by Juice Leskinen about alcoholism

Which one?

You don't deserve my sig.

Evert
Member #794
November 2000
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Your argument that drugs don't ruin everyone's life is valid.

Good.

Quote:

I don't see why you feel the need to persuade other people that they should risk letting it ruin their lives because it doesn't ruin everyone's.

Eh? What? Where do I say that?
Look again. All I say is that drug use does not inevitably lead to drug abuse, but people have this knee-jerk reaction where they equate the two. And that's stupid.

Ron Novy said:

A long walk will no doubt tire you out, make you thirsty and possibly give you the munchies.

Which doesn't necessarily help if you have insomnia. You can be dead tired and not fall asleep. A friend of mine has it.

Quote:

Marijuana will just make you lazy and not necessarily tired...

It can help you relax, which may be what you need to go to sleep.

Johan Halmén
Member #1,550
September 2001

jhuuskon said:

Which one?

Viidestoista yö.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Years of thorough research have revealed that the red "x" that closes a window, really isn't red, but white on red background.

Years of thorough research have revealed that what people find beautiful about the Mandelbrot set is not the set itself, but all the rest.

Derezo
Member #1,666
April 2001
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Statistics are everything in the case against Marijuana. There are no bad statistics about marijuana in comparison to any other recreational drug available, even the legal ones like salvia, pods, alcohol, etc.

The reason Marijuana is illegal is because it has statistically bad effects on the qualities that make you a useful person to the group. You are slower, eat a lot, lazy, and it has general dissociative effects causing you to lack a higher order of understanding while on the drug. It is more difficult to regulate because it is easy to reproduce, which is why governments don't take it over and make tax from it, unlike alcohol.

Marijuana being illegal isn't a big deal, at least here in Ontario. I'd rather get caught with an ounce of pot than get caught speeding 50kmph over the limit.

"He who controls the stuffing controls the Universe"

Johan Halmén
Member #1,550
September 2001

onewing said:

Plus I tend to be sleeping more than bears these days.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Years of thorough research have revealed that the red "x" that closes a window, really isn't red, but white on red background.

Years of thorough research have revealed that what people find beautiful about the Mandelbrot set is not the set itself, but all the rest.

gnolam
Member #2,030
March 2002
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Derezo said:

It is more difficult to regulate because it is easy to reproduce, which is why governments don't take it over and make tax from it, unlike alcohol.

I've never grown any marijuana (and don't plan on doing it either), but I've done a fair bit of homebrewing - and I have a hard time imagining that growing pot could be easier than making alcohol. :)
Something containing sugar + water + yeast + leave it alone for a couple of weeks = C2H5OH.

Making decent beer is tricky, but anyone can make a perfectly drinkable mead.

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anonymous
Member #8025
November 2006

Derezo said:

Statistics are everything in the case against Marijuana. There are no bad statistics about marijuana in comparison to any other recreational drug available, even the legal ones like salvia, pods, alcohol, etc.

I'm afraid legal ones like alcohol and tobacco are not legal because they are somehow good or harmless but because it would be too hard if not impossible to make them illegal because of the long cultural background. (Tobacco's been popular since America was discovered, alcohol probably around the world since stone age.) This would be a very poor excuse to legalize other substances since "they are no worse".

(There are probably other drugs that are more culture-specific. My ancestors probably consumed a few mushrooms now and then. I could go and pick a few of those for myself too in the autumn, but the grand hallucinations would come at a price of vomiting and other symptoms like that...)

Derezo
Member #1,666
April 2001
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gnolam said:

Making decent beer is tricky

I know you can make some decent beer with pretty low startup costs, but if you wanted to do a batch of 24 cases of 24 bottles it's going to take far more preparation.

You can grow pot by planting seeds in your backyard here. You don't do anything else until it's done growing. Then you just need to yank them (growing pot indoors is also easy but is a 5 minute daily task for about 3 months).

In my area, Lambton County, Ontario, it's impossible to detect. There is a lot of bush land that is teeming with pot.

anonymous said:

I'm afraid legal ones like alcohol and tobacco are not legal because they are somehow good or harmless but because it would be too hard if not impossible to make them illegal

It's culturally acceptable (which is wrong), but it is NOT difficult to make alcohol or tobacco illegal.

Tobacco is becoming illegal without any difficulty here in Ontario. You cannot smoke in your car with your kids here, or in public places, and you cannot advertise that you sell tobacco or display it in your stores.

Alcohol will not see the same treatment because the tax revenues are too high and the health effects are not serious enough to cost the country money (like tobacco does).

Steps to make alcohol illegal (2-5 year break between steps):
1) Reduce maximum alcohol content to 40% (from 75% I think).
2) Raise age limit to 21 (from 19)
3) Increase taxes as well as significantly increasing licensing costs.
4) Increase penalties regarding alcohol related crimes.
5) Ban alcohol advertising to the public.
6) Reduce the amount of alcohol one person may purchase.

Then if you want to go further, you just keep bumping up those steps slowly. The trick is to make it unacceptable first, then make it illegal.

..but that's going to cost more money, so that doesn't make any sense.

"He who controls the stuffing controls the Universe"

Johan Halmén
Member #1,550
September 2001

Sorry, Samuli, for ignoring your long post. Actually I missed a lot of this thread for some reason. My browser obviously jumped over the posts down to one of Timorg's posts, despite me clicking on "jump to last read post". Anyway, yeah, I might sound fanatic, but I stay at my point that drugs that are illegal should stay illegal in Finland. And I do believe when scientists say the cannabinoids are fat soluble and therefore stay in our brains for a longer time. They might not actually damage our brains like alcohol does, killing the cells, but their presence there might change our personalities in the long run.

I knew one girl who smoked pot every day. She had the maturity of the age she started smoking.

I've heard a similar story. But I guess that goes for booze, too.

I try not to be fanatic. I only feel bad when youths start to smoke cigarettes without knowing simple facts. And same goes for smoking pot. No, I can't verify all "facts" I've said here. I only wish everyone would consider checking these things out before starting their own drug use. The reason why I haven't gone through these facts is that I'm not going to use pot myself. If you are aware that cannabinoides might stay for weeks in your brain, if you are aware that they might cause psychotic reactions, if you are aware that they might change your personality, if you are aware of <any negative effect I've missed> and still decide to use it, that's fine with me. But if you neglect everything bad people say about cannabis, you're just stupid. I have issues with stupidity, and that's why I act fanatic even though I hate it. I know alcohol destroys my brains, I know it destroys my liver, I know this and that about alcohol. And I still drink it. I drink maybe 1% - 5% of the average amount Finns drink, but I still do.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Years of thorough research have revealed that the red "x" that closes a window, really isn't red, but white on red background.

Years of thorough research have revealed that what people find beautiful about the Mandelbrot set is not the set itself, but all the rest.

anonymous
Member #8025
November 2006

Derezo said:

Steps to make alcohol illegal (2-5 year break between steps):
1) Reduce maximum alcohol content to 40% (from 75% I think).
2) Raise age limit to 21 (from 19)
3) Increase taxes as well as significantly increasing licensing costs.
4) Increase penalties regarding alcohol related crimes.
5) Ban alcohol advertising to the public.
6) Reduce the amount of alcohol one person may purchase.

1) While you can get stronger stuff, vodka in EU is 38% or so.
2) In place (not sure about light alcohols like beer and cider which might still be 18), although schoolkids can always get alcohol if they are motivated enough.
3) Done (I haven't drunk beer all winter and it seems it has become 1/4 more expensive in the meantime).
4) Should be in place.
5) This has been attempted, and advertising should be at least restricted.
6) As much as you can carry :)

These steps (including restricting where alcohol can be consumed) don't seem to have much effect on alcohol consumption. Perhaps higher taxes can cut back some consumption (but also activate the black market, and real homeless drunkards consume things like cheap Eau-de-Cologne anyway).

Derezo
Member #1,666
April 2001
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I was applying those steps to my region, which apparently matters a lot, heh. ;)

Alcohol might go the same way that Marijuana is now if it were made completely illegal, and really that's not what I want anyway. It should be far more difficult to get than it is though, especially for younger people.

Marijuana is a far better alternative to alcohol as a recreational drug. Legalizing Marijuana and increasing restrictions on Alcohol and removing social acceptance of it would be a step in the right direction, I think.

"He who controls the stuffing controls the Universe"

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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Derezo said:

It (alcohol) should be far more difficult to get than it is though, especially for younger people.

gnolam said:

Something containing sugar + water + yeast + leave it alone for a couple of weeks = C2H5OH.

Even easier than making your own zip gun

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

Derezo
Member #1,666
April 2001
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heh, yeah. That could become an issue, but I suspect that fewer people are going to become chronic users of poor quality alcohol. I don't think it would catch on to a very big extent ;)

"He who controls the stuffing controls the Universe"

jhuuskon
Member #302
April 2000
avatar

Viidestoista yö.

I've never particularily liked that one and haven't really listened to the lyrics.

You're right of course. Creepy.

You don't deserve my sig.

gnolam
Member #2,030
March 2002
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Derezo said:

heh, yeah. That could become an issue, but I suspect that fewer people are going to become chronic users of poor quality alcohol. I don't think it would catch on to a very big extent ;)

"Cheap and home-made" does not necessarily equate to "poor quality". I don't know how it is where you live, but all the moonshine I've come across in this country[1] has been at least on par with commercial products. :)
(And absolutely all of it has been better than Vodka Jelzin. Gah!)

References

  1. Which, BTW, probably has the strictest alcohol legislation outside the Middle East. And still most people know someone who can get them not-entirely-legal alcohol.

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Jonatan Hedborg
Member #4,886
July 2004
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But vodka jelzin comes in a bag-in-box version :D

BAF
Member #2,981
December 2002
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Well, they don't rob cars, they just tell the car manufacturing company how it should be run (even though they (the politicians) never had a job in the real world)

It's not like the domestic car manufacturers know anything about what they're doing anyway.



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