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WAR in Georgia
KnightWhoSaysNi
Member #7,339
June 2006
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Quote:

I saw a video of a "live" reporter get shot by a Russian sniper

http://www.breitbart.tv/html/151953.html

It was the Georgians. If we all stopped trading with Russia then Europe would suffer more than Russia would. It relies on Russia for most of its energy.

Russia was right to do what it did despite what our News media says but I think they should only "annex" the breakaway regions and not the entire country. In my opinion this is no different than what happened in Kosovo. If Georgia wanted to gain control it should have waited 40 years while telling all of the Georgians living in Ossetia and elsewhere to migrate there and have 8 children per mother and then gain control it though democracy.

Frank Griffin
Member #7474
July 2006

I assume most eastern european countries will now join NATO to orevent themselves from being gobbled up.

I find it amazing how people love to defend Russia when they are clearly in the wrong. Saying the georgia situation is the same as the Iraq is just plain ignorant. There are a few simularities but not much else. Everyone with a brain knows that the USA does not want to annex any countries.

Its about time some of you end your america envy and do whats best for the world instead. America is far from perfect but it is about as good as it gets. If the USA loses its #1 spot in the world how many people honestly think the world will be a better place when that happens? What if Russia was the top dog. I bet most of you would be speaking Russian by now.

You guys need to read the book "useful idiots". It was what Lenin called liberals. Lenin could always count on his useful liberal idiots to defend his actions or make excuses for Russia.

"gut feeling the people in England are poor" -Samuli
"taken out of context it's an awesome quote" - Jonatan Hedborg

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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Something Stephen Colbert said recently seems appropriate: Reality has a well-known liberal bias.

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Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

ReyBrujo
Moderator
January 2001
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Quote:

I bet most of you would be speaking Russian by now.

That sounds xenophobic. Did you know the Cold War ended, and that communists are not your enemy?

I wonder if you always think US is right, or that they always take the best option for the world even if that contradicts what is better for themselves ;) If they can't, they aren't as good world leaders as anyone else.

By the way, did Tom Clancy predict the war in a video game?

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RB
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OICW
Member #4,069
November 2003
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Quote:

Everyone with a brain knows that the USA does not want to annex any countries.

Sure, they are only exporting "democracy" to those countries. And they will be so happy about that, that they will become best friends with USA. And USA in exchange will tie them economically.

Quote:

If the USA loses its #1 spot in the world how many people honestly think the world will be a better place when that happens? What if Russia was the top dog. I bet most of you would be speaking Russian by now.

Chinesee if you want to be pesimistic. And no, nothing important would happen. The top dog would be doing the same as you now do - spreading "democracy" and "freedom". I wonder if you know that imposed "good" is actualy evil.

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Edgar Reynaldo
Member #8,592
May 2007
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I'd take our "democracy" and "freedom" over dictatorship and communism any day. ;)

Or maybe you don't like free speech or the right to have a say in electing your own rulers?

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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In the US right now, there isn't a heck of a lot of difference.

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Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

Kibiz0r
Member #6,203
September 2005
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Whoa.

I haven't been following this, but...

Has anybody seen this?

And this?

What's going on? Is there some context I'm missing, or is it really what it looks like?

Edgar Reynaldo
Member #8,592
May 2007
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Quote:

In the US right now, there isn't a heck of a lot of difference.

I think they roughed you up too much at the border crossing. Sorry about that. Seriously, there's a big difference.

No one tells me who to vote for, locally or nationally either. No one fixes our votes as far as I know. It sucks pretty bad when the voting idiots outweigh the voting sane, but enough people manage to change back over to the other side once they see the way the country goes while they're in office. It's a lot better than having no choice at all like in North Korea or fixed elections somewhere else.

axilmar
Member #1,204
April 2001

Quote:

I find it amazing how people love to defend Russia when they are clearly in the wrong.

Actually, both countries (Russia and Georgia) are in the wrong. Georgia tried to invade South Osetia, Russia responded with an invasion of their own.

This war is actually about resources, like all the other wars. The area of Caucasus has tremendously big resources of natural gas and oil, and America wants to secure the paths to those resources.

It's also a good opportunity to expand NATO and sell more weapons and related stuff, and get new customers.

In the end, a global thermonuclear and biological war is unavoidable. It's written in almost every sci-fi works for the 21st century. Star Trek also has WWIII with hundreds of millions of victims.

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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Quote:

hundreds of millions of victims.

I had thought it was in the billions. Got about 8 now, and a "mutually assured destruction" outcome would seriously decimate the current population.

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Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

Evert
Member #794
November 2000
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Quote:

In the end, a global thermonuclear and biological war is unavoidable. It's written in almost every sci-fi works for the 21st century.

That doesn't make it inevitable... ::)

Quote:

I had thought it was in the billions. Got about 8 now, and a "mutually assured destruction" outcome would seriously decimate the current population.

If you decimate a population that runs in the billions you get hundreds of millions of victims. ;)

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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Quote:

That doesn't make it inevitable... ::)

No, but theres a very good chance that human nature does.

Quote:

If you decimate a population that runs in the billions you get hundreds of millions of victims. ;)

Sure, but that's a rather inaccurate number ;)

To me decimate says take a large portion, maybe 7/8ths, and make them disappear. "hundreds of millions" doesn't really do "7 billion" justice.

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Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

Evert
Member #794
November 2000
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Quote:

No, but theres a very good chance that human nature does.

I don't think so. Not saying it can't happen, but I don't think it's inevitable.
What is clear though: the Earth cannot sustain the large human population we have now indefinitely.

Quote:

To me decimate says take a large portion, maybe 7/8ths, and make them disappear. "hundreds of millions" doesn't really do "7 billion" justice.

To decimate a population means to remove every tenth of that population. I know it's acquired the more loose meaning of "a lot", but I think it's odd to say "decimate" when you mean "a large (>>10%) fraction is removed."

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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Quote:

What is clear though: the Earth cannot sustain the large human population we have now indefinitely.

Thats just one of my reasons for what I believe. What happens when more places run out of drinkable water, farmable land and decent temperatures? Some will move, others will take. And both will cause friction.

Quote:

To decimate a population means to remove every tenth of that population.

So I should have chosen a better word ::) :P

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Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

Matt Smith
Member #783
November 2000

When America hosted the World Cup, it went really well.

Can we book America for the next World War? We had the last 2 here in Europe and the carpets are still dirty.

How about your home town Frank? Do you have the balls for that?

Ron Novy
Member #6,982
March 2006
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Hmm... This reminds me of what happened in the 'water fight'...

'Little country' splashes 'Big country' with red fizzy drink... 'Big country' get angry!

{"name":"8adc513453c957eda8d8c987903a9a2a.jpg","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/8\/a\/8adc513453c957eda8d8c987903a9a2a.jpg","w":468,"h":891,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/8\/a\/8adc513453c957eda8d8c987903a9a2a"}8adc513453c957eda8d8c987903a9a2a.jpg
:P

Don't fuck with the country with the thermonuclear warheads... Or the hulk in this case...

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Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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Quote:

Everyone with a brain knows that the USA does not want to annex any countries.

http://www.jerrypournelle.com/reports/jerryp/empire.html

“Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded — here and there, now and then — are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty. This is known as "bad luck.”

― Robert A. Heinlein

Frank Griffin
Member #7474
July 2006

This conversation is showing me how little some of you guys know about world history.

You think the current problems in the world are big right now? Tens of millions left to starve to death, millions marched into ovens for easy burial. All of this happened on the European continent and was started by people on that continent. This makes me assume that these same people will again forget the past and repeat the process. This time Europe is lucky that the USA is being more proactive by trying to halt a repeat of the same old process. Will this work, I do not know but I do think there is a better chance for you guys to survive this time with the USA looking out for yea. We do have a reason to stick our nose into europes affairs since our boys lost their lives in two world wars started over there.

The people that make up the USA are no better than anywhere else in the world but the culture and form of government is what sets us apart.

The next war will be in Europe I'm afraid since Europe continues to lapse into complacency, thinking the human condition is somehow different from 60 years ago is foolish.

Georgia was taking care of a problem area within it's own borders and Russia's borders. Russia was in the wrong but I see you are becoming a useful idiot.

"gut feeling the people in England are poor" -Samuli
"taken out of context it's an awesome quote" - Jonatan Hedborg

Elverion
Member #6,239
September 2005
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Quote:

Russia was in the wrong

Mind explaining how? They broke off from Russia, and the people of South Ossettia didn't want any part of it; they were still loyal to Russia and considered themselves citizens of it. Georgia gave them no choice, though. So since they wern't loyal to Georgia, what did the Georgians do? First, cut off their water supply. Then rush their city and kill hundreds of civilians. Russia came in and saved the day. Even now they (Georgians) continue to kill, or at least attempt to kill, civilians. I'm sure you've seen the several videos of them shooting at reporters. I do not see why Russia is the bad guy here. You should be happy they saved several Americans, at the very least.

Either way, I do not think America should get involved. If anything, we should be supporting Russia, though. And kick Georgia out of our super secret club.

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Vanneto
Member #8,643
May 2007

South Osetia is not even a country, Georgia is. When the Russians attacked S. Osetia, they attacked Georgia. Not cool. S. Osetia does not exist.

In capitalist America bank robs you.

Elverion
Member #6,239
September 2005
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Quote:

South Osetia is not even a country, Georgia is. When the Russians attacked S. Osetia, they attacked Georgia. Not cool. S. Osetia does not exist.

You're right. I shouldn't have said that it was a country. Especially considering that I never said, nor implied, that. I still fail to see how that makes it OK to kill civilians or another nation.

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Vanneto
Member #8,643
May 2007

My comment wasn't directed at you. Just something I wanted to point out.

Quote:

I still fail to see how that makes it OK to kill civilians or another nation.

I fail to see how wars are OK in general. Even without killing civilians. Its human nature, I guess. :-/

In capitalist America bank robs you.

Biznaga
Member #3,180
January 2003
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Quote:

By the way, did Tom Clancy predict the war in a video game?

Damn! That means next one is Mexico being invaded by the US. Which is not that crazy at all taking into account that we have two presidents at once right now and a very angry people because last elections. :P

Frank Griffin
Member #7474
July 2006

With Elverion's logic it would be ok for Russia to invade california to save it from the oppressive Bush regime. South O is part of Georgia. Russia is the outsider. I read that the Russian troops were massed on the border just waiting for the slightest excuse to charge on in.

"gut feeling the people in England are poor" -Samuli
"taken out of context it's an awesome quote" - Jonatan Hedborg



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