Allegro.cc - Online Community

Allegro.cc Forums » Off-Topic Ordeals » [linux] shocking!

This thread is locked; no one can reply to it. rss feed Print
 1   2   3 
[linux] shocking!
CGamesPlay
Member #2,559
July 2002
avatar

I wanted to set up an encrypted partition on my machine, for my /home partition. Well, of course I'm running an old kernel, so I have to upgrade.

It took me 2.5 hours, but my new kernel is actually working and no longer using ndiswrapper. Impressive that is works after only 2.5 hours and maybe 10 reboots!

Okay, nothing in Linux is easy. I also have to upgrade my baselayout to version 2 in order to use the system cryptographic support. Well, after unmasking some packages and installing them, following the distro's upgrade guide, I rebooted, expecting to spend the next 6 hours debugging. It worked on the first try! Amazing!

I still haven't set up my encrypted partition, but I did set up an encrypted swap partition (I don't use swap though). We'll see how well that goes ::)

The rules: post your stories about Linux. No other OSes allowed! :)

--
Tomasu: Every time you read this: hugging!

Ryan Patterson - <http://cgamesplay.com/>

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
avatar

I switched away from gentoo, and that sort of thing became possible to do in mere minutes.

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
avatar

I was thinking about trying again to install Gentoo on my server this weekend, but then a coworker told me about the ICFP 2008 Programming Contest and I think I'm going to give that a try instead (or at least, see what I can manage...). At least the contest runs in Linux though. ;D

Neil Walker
Member #210
April 2000
avatar

I gave up trying to get ubuntu to work with my wireless usb stick, and not matter how much I tried ndis wouldn't work. Until a linux comes with drivers for standard eqipment like this, it won't make it to the desktop.

Neil.
MAME Cabinet Blog / AXL LIBRARY (a games framework) / AXL Documentation and Tutorial

wii:0356-1384-6687-2022, kart:3308-4806-6002. XBOX:chucklepie

kenmasters1976
Member #8,794
July 2007

I've been trying to use Linux for a while, I really do, but on my machine it's just impossible. While a fresh Windows installation takes about 70 MB of RAM, a fresh Linux installation takes over my 256 MB of RAM, plus about 100 MB more on disk/swap. How's that possible?. With all RAM saturated, doing anything becomes an impossibility.

I've tried Fedora, Ubuntu, OpenSolaris, etc.. The only one that runs well is DamnSmallLinux, but it doesn't have all that's necessary for serious all-time use. So I stay on Windows.

Timorg
Member #2,028
March 2002

@kenmasters1976: What version of windows are you running, cause that really doesn't sound like my experiences with WinXP on a low end system. Granted I only had half the ram, but it managed to use it all, and have at least 50meg of swap used just sitting idle. I have personally used for 5 months a system that I added stuff to from The perfect light Debian with Fluxbox and it ran fine. (I kind of miss fluxbox actually, now that I am using gnome again)

____________________________________________________________________________________________
"c is much better than c++ if you don't need OOP simply because it's smaller and requires less load time." - alethiophile
OMG my sides are hurting from laughing so hard... :D

Mark Oates
Member #1,146
March 2001
avatar

Despite all these fallbacks, Linux is getting better, right? The distro's websites are beginning to look really slick.

It seems to me that Open Source software (and free software) will someday become a pretty powerful force if it isn't already. Establishing an OS would of course take longer than a typical piece of software since an infrastructure of say, drivers, is essential.

--
Visit CLUBCATT.com for cat shirts, cat mugs, puzzles, art and more <-- coupon code ALLEGRO4LIFE at checkout and get $3 off any order of 3 or more items!

AllegroFlareAllegroFlare DocsAllegroFlare GitHub

Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
avatar

If I were running a business and needed many entry level workstations, I would definitely use Linux to skip the Windows license fees and headaches with security and employees messing things up.

I want to use Linux as a workstation, but there's always something to drives me back to Windows. Speaking of my experiences with Ubuntu, its Bluetooth support is horrible, working with multiple monitors is a mess, and WiFi support is spotty at best. And I suppose whenever those are finally working to an acceptable degree, something else will instantly irritate me. :-/

Mark Oates
Member #1,146
March 2001
avatar

You prefer Windows over Mac OS?

I installed Ubuntu about a year ago. I was surprised how easy it was to install; easier than Windows. The GUI was great as well, but... there was nothing to do.

--
Visit CLUBCATT.com for cat shirts, cat mugs, puzzles, art and more <-- coupon code ALLEGRO4LIFE at checkout and get $3 off any order of 3 or more items!

AllegroFlareAllegroFlare DocsAllegroFlare GitHub

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
avatar

Hardware vendors need to play nice with Linux and give the kernel/module developers everything they need to develop support for their hardware. Working proprietary drivers are OK for many purposes, but they sort of go against the Linux way anyway... Still, better than no drivers at all. >:(

OICW
Member #4,069
November 2003
avatar

Two weeks ago I've upgraded to OpenSuSE 11 and was quite surprised that finally the wifi card works without ndiswrapper and the driver survives suspend to disk/ram. Other than that I'm quite satisfied except poor bluetooth support, unfunctional card reader for which I seem not to find any drivers and buggy graphics driver.

Besides installing a new kernel is quite a pleasure. Just one minute till it downloads and one restart.

[My website][CppReference][Pixelate][Allegators worldwide][Who's online]
"Final Fantasy XIV, I feel that anything I could say will be repeating myself, so I'm just gonna express my feelings with a strangled noise from the back of my throat. Graaarghhhh..." - Yahtzee
"Uhm... this is a.cc. Did you honestly think this thread WOULDN'T be derailed and ruined?" - BAF
"You can discuss it, you can dislike it, you can disagree with it, but that's all what you can do with it"

nonnus29
Member #2,606
August 2002
avatar

I'm using Ubuntu on my laptop and everything worked right away. First time I booted up it connected with someone elses unsecure wireless network. Dev tools aren't installed by default but Synaptic works without a hitch.

I'd say it matches WinXP for most peoples usage. One drawback is setting up a network, still have to manually edit the config files where as windows has the wizards.

kenmasters1976
Member #8,794
July 2007

Quote:

@kenmasters1976: What version of windows are you running, cause that really doesn't sound like my experiences with WinXP on a low end system...

I meant a fresh Windows XP installation. Of course after you install an antivirus, antispyware, firewall and all those things you need, it also can fill 256 MB, but even then it seems to me that Windows can manage virtual memory much more efficiently than Linux can manage swap.

If just after installing Linux it has to use swap space just to open a simple text editor, then that's a no. It also turns switching from one apllication to another into a hell, and hearing the HD working all time is really annoying.

Thomas Harte
Member #33
April 2000
avatar

Quote:

You prefer Windows over Mac OS?

I think ML has flagged himself as not a particular fan of Mac OS in the past. Now stop breaking the rules!

My issues with Linux:

  • lack of decent desktop publishing software

  • mistaken belief amongst some developers that it is acceptable to only make your application usable for people who have read all the docs, irrespective of the application

  • mistaken belief amongst other developers that anything with a GUI is inherently easy to use, i.e. when developing a desktop application, any GUI design will do as long as there is one

  • mistaken belief amongst yet further developers that prettiness may one day make up for other GUI defects

  • the fonts are usually relatively nasty, and to make things worse most distributions default to grossly exaggerated font hinting

But I'd recommend it in an instant to anyone whose hardware is supported and just wants a computer as a web and office appliance.

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
avatar

Quote:

even then it seems to me that Windows can manage virtual memory much more efficiently than Linux can manage swap.

Linux is better at managing memory period. XP is rather dumb, and will not cache any filesystem data in memory for longer than it takes to load the app or file. Linux will use "free" memory as a disk cache, XP can't. If you aren't using all your memory it's being wasted. That said, the latest Gnome and KDE are too heavy to run on 256MB unless you're only using some basic apps, and make sure certain things aren't loaded.

How linux works is this, when asked it loads a given chunk of a file into the cache, and hands it off to an application to read from. The memory allocated for the cache is immediately freeable if necessary and won't normally be pushed to swap, however the application's run-time copy can, and will be pushed into swap. After a few minutes of settling, you may notice your commonly used apps are always in memory, while ones you only touch every hour or so (or much less), are swapped in every time you use it. That said, you're better off with a slimmer less capable desktop like the old xfce or a wm like windowmaker.

Quote:

mistaken belief amongst some developers that it is acceptable to only make your application usable for people who have read all the docs, irrespective of the application

Yeah, I can't stand Gimp and Blender for that reason. The UI is too hard to "discover" easily. Then again, I wouldn't know what to do even if it has a easy to use UI, as both apps/activities are inherently experience driven (sure, ms paint is easy to use, but fsck me if I can make anything usefull with it).

Quote:

mistaken belief amongst other developers that anything with a GUI is inherently easy to use, i.e. when developing a desktop application, any GUI design will do as long as there is one

I agree. Though many developers seem to be incapable of a useable design of any sort, and a large lack of good design and good* usability experts.

  • no, I don't think gnome has a good usuability team. They only heard one complaint (it's too complex), and took its implementation waaaay too far.

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

Gr4|\|f
Member #9,499
February 2008
avatar

Linux may be harder to use, but there are things that can be done exclusively in linux. How many other OSes do you know in which you can pipe the contents of the randomization file into the screen buffer whenever somebody says "Hillary Clinton" into the microphone?

Ping me @ 127.0.0.1

Tobias Dammers
Member #2,604
August 2002
avatar

Setting up a complete web server with Apache, PHP, and MySQL, took me less than an hour (using debian netinstall); the machine in question was a laptop with a dead screen, 10 GB harddisk and a 700 MHz cpu. Then the rest of the machine in question died, so I never really got to use said web server.

My issues with Linux as a desktop OS: There is virtually no useful music software, and even worse, no drivers for any audio interface that delivers studio quality at a reasonable price (read: anything that can do 24 bits, 96 kHz sampling with zero latency, something around 100 dB SNR, and a reasonable mic preamp); most supported hardware is either crappy, or costs an arm and a leg.

---
Me make music: Triofobie
---
"We need Tobias and his awesome trombone, too." - Johan Halmén

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
avatar

I installed Fedora from the LiveCD and today I went to compile gtmess and discovered that no development tools had been installed... :-X That too was a shock! :P I'd like to run Gentoo as a desktop eventually, but Fedora was so much faster to get going for now... :-[

Gr4|\|f said:

Linux may be harder to use, but there are things that can be done exclusively in linux. How many other OSes do you know in which you can pipe the contents of the randomization file into the screen buffer whenever somebody says "Hillary Clinton" into the microphone?

;D

alethiophile
Member #9,349
December 2007
avatar

I use Debian whenever I use Linux, and I found WiFi to be good. The only problems I really noticed were with games, and those are more problems with my obsolete computer. :P

Quote:

My issues with Linux as a desktop OS: There is virtually no useful music software, and even worse, no drivers for any audio interface that delivers studio quality at a reasonable price (read: anything that can do 24 bits, 96 kHz sampling with zero latency, something around 100 dB SNR, and a reasonable mic preamp); most supported hardware is either crappy, or costs an arm and a leg.

What do you mean, "music software"? If you want to typeset sheet music, I highly recommend GNU Lilypond, and for quick sound editing Audacity is very good. I'm not posting links to those; a quick Google turns up results.

--
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
C++: An octopus made by nailing extra legs onto a dog.
I am the Lightning-Struck Penguin of Doom.

jhuuskon
Member #302
April 2000
avatar

Quote:

What do you mean, "music software"? If you want to typeset sheet music, I highly recommend GNU Lilypond, and for quick sound editing Audacity is very good. I'm not posting links to those; a quick Google turns up results.

DAW (Digital Audio Workstation) software. You know, like Pro Tools, Logic, Cubase, SONAR, FL Studio and the like. None exist for Linux that are any good. You know, stuff that you do real music work production with.

You don't deserve my sig.

Tobias Dammers
Member #2,604
August 2002
avatar

Quote:

What do you mean, "music software"? If you want to typeset sheet music, I highly recommend GNU Lilypond, and for quick sound editing Audacity is very good. I'm not posting links to those; a quick Google turns up results.

I know them both, and if you ask me, both suck for anything serious.
Lilypond, while amazing in the quality it outputs, basically requires learning a programming language. Also, since I use my computer as a musical notepad, WYSIWYG is an absolute must, something that even the finest windows programs only barely seem to be able to do in a satisfactory manner.
Audacity is OK, but not for what I need. What I need is 32+ tracks of audio, combined with VST instruments on MIDI tracks, all routed through a software mixer with all sorts of inserts, buses and master effects, with comfortable editing facilities and a complete set of studio plugins.
I hear Rosegarden can do some really fine things, and I know there are professional recording studios using linux, but the main problem is the audio interface. I have a system that works fine right now, I'm not dashing out 600€ just to be an open source hero.
--- edit ---
Or what jhuuskon said.

---
Me make music: Triofobie
---
"We need Tobias and his awesome trombone, too." - Johan Halmén

alethiophile
Member #9,349
December 2007
avatar

Quote:

I know them both, and if you ask me, both suck for anything serious.
Lilypond, while amazing in the quality it outputs, basically requires learning a programming language. Also, since I use my computer as a musical notepad, WYSIWYG is an absolute must, something that even the finest windows programs only barely seem to be able to do in a satisfactory manner.
Audacity is OK, but not for what I need. What I need is 32+ tracks of audio, combined with VST instruments on MIDI tracks, all routed through a software mixer with all sorts of inserts, buses and master effects, with comfortable editing facilities and a complete set of studio plugins.
I hear Rosegarden can do some really fine things, and I know there are professional recording studios using linux, but the main problem is the audio interface. I have a system that works fine right now, I'm not dashing out 600€ just to be an open source hero.

Lilypond does require you to learn a programming language, yes; but if you're serious about it, that's not a bad thing. You can do infinitely more powerful things with a batch-processing language like Lilypond than with WYSIWYG software like Finale or whatever. Also, I use my computer as a musical notepad, and I don't have any WYSIWYG software, and I don't see the problem. I concede the lack of Logic or GarageBand-like stuff for Linux, but with WINE you can run Windows progs (often). Also, wouldn't Linux save you money? Why would it cost you 600 euros? (I can't be bothered to find that char in the insert-special-character dialog.)

--
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
C++: An octopus made by nailing extra legs onto a dog.
I am the Lightning-Struck Penguin of Doom.

Tobias Dammers
Member #2,604
August 2002
avatar

Quote:

Lilypond does require you to learn a programming language, yes; but if you're serious about it, that's not a bad thing. You can do infinitely more powerful things with a batch-processing language like Lilypond than with WYSIWYG software like Finale or whatever.

In theory, yes. I could output "America The Beautiful" in a random key on the default printer everytime someone says "Obama" into the microphone, but in practice, it just turns out that I never need to. Lilypond is way cool, but it doesn't fit my needs.

Quote:

Also, I use my computer as a musical notepad, and I don't have any WYSIWYG software, and I don't see the problem.

I'm the kind of guy who reads music like most people read books - hand me sheet music, and I can imagine what it sounds like. That doesn't work with lilypond syntax, I'm very sorry.

Quote:

I concede the lack of Logic or GarageBand-like stuff for Linux, but with WINE you can run Windows progs (often).

And often, you can't.

Quote:

Also, wouldn't Linux save you money? Why would it cost you 600 euros? (I can't be bothered to find that char in the insert-special-character dialog.)

Linux would not save me any money. I already have windows, installing linux will not get me a refund. Installing linux, however, means that my current hardware will be useless, and I will have to buy a new audio interface. Last time I checked, one that had linux drivers available and was not called SoundBlasterGalacticWhatever, cost about 600 Ctrl-Meta-5.
WINE doesn't run Logic in a useable way.

Don't get me wrong, Linux is great - it's just not the best choice for my needs. For a web server, I'd take linux over windows any day.

---
Me make music: Triofobie
---
"We need Tobias and his awesome trombone, too." - Johan Halmén

alethiophile
Member #9,349
December 2007
avatar

Linux does have problems with software availability (which would be fixed if companies either used good practice in the first place, or spent the maybe 24 programmer-hours required to Linux-port a Windows program). As a software developer, I find Linux meets all my needs. Never having tried doing serious sound authoring on my Linux box (I use my Mac), I don't have the experience. I would recommend Mac, but I realize that spending the large-amound-of-Ctrl-Meta-5 required for custom Mac hardware is not always an option. Also, C-M-5 doesn't work in Firefox.

--
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
C++: An octopus made by nailing extra legs onto a dog.
I am the Lightning-Struck Penguin of Doom.

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
avatar

Yeah, linux suffers from a lack of pro gear support, except for 3d rendering. Its sad really, and theres only so many people interested in pro audio and video work that are also interested in open source, or even have the time to play with a new operating system. Its also sort of a hard area to break into if you don't have excellent software, the sort of stuff that blows away the competition.. And I'm not sure if CSound or Ardour comes close. And I know that pro hardware support is spotty :(

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

 1   2   3 


Go to: