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Man Made Global Warming what a joke!
Frank Griffin
Member #7474
July 2006

As most of you know I have been saying global warming is just a load of hot air. Has anyone read that article on the drudge report about 2007's global temperatures?
90% of the global heating for the last century has been wiped out by 2007's global cooling. All the global temperature indicators registered drops in overall temeratures. Starting 10 years ago temperatures have remained steady. Starting 3 years ago temps have begun to decline. Last year serious drops in global temperatures have occured.

The wait for Al gore having to return his nobel peace prize is almost over. He is our present day mili vanili. Someone told me CNN covered this story also.

http://www.dailytech.com/Temperature+Monitors+Report+Worldwide+Global+Cooling/article10866.htm

"gut feeling the people in England are poor" -Samuli
"taken out of context it's an awesome quote" - Jonatan Hedborg

kazzmir
Member #1,786
December 2001
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Allow me to summarize your post:

Frank Griffin basically said:

I read a bunch of crap of on the internet that supports my previously held bias, therefore it must be true!

le_y_mistar
Member #8,251
January 2007
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kazzmir wins this thread

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I'm hell of an awesome guy :)

Goalie Ca
Member #2,579
July 2002
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Global warming is about the worst term on earth but it was one of those terms the media began pushing. We are in the midst of a global climate change. It is measurable and provable. We certainly have the capability to change the world. It is man-made and there is no doubt about that. The doubt is all in the predictions but even the most optimistic predictions are looking rough.

Be warned with statistics. There is a difference yearly averages and trends. The trend is for global average warming due to increase greenhouse gas emissions. One possibility is even an ice age for europe but i'm not that pessimistic. Global ocean currents are changing and it was the warm atlantic current keeping it warm.

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Bah weep granah weep nini bong!

Evert
Member #794
November 2000
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I read a similar statement about average global temperatures in New Scientist (I think). Guess what? It depends on how you calculate the average temperature; there are several ways to do that (depending on how you account for missing data points, for instance). As far as I remember there was one method that said global temperatures were lower (but it had a dodgy way of extrapolating the temperature across regions where no measurements were made) and all the others saying it was higher.

Melting of both the Arctic and the Antarctic icecaps are well established. Increase in sea water temperature and sea water levels rising are also well established. There is a large year-to-year variation, larger than any global trend, which only emerges if one takes five or ten year averages.

And yes, I'm well aware that the Earth was considerably warmer during the Carboniferous period when carbon-dioxide levels were much higher than they are today. I'm also well aware that most species alive today are not adapted for life in such a climate and would die out. Concern for global warming (particularly man-made global warming) has nothing to do with concern for life on Earth, which will outlast us. It only has to do with our own future and that of our children, changes on a human timescale.

That is also the timescale on which I might trust climate models. Long-term (say, ten thousand years) predictions I would not trust. Weather and climate systems are chaotic, meaning a small perturbation has a large effect.

Anyway, you go ahead and live on in your bubble where corporate interests outweigh human well-being, us evil lefties are responsible for depriving you of your precious oil and try to brain-wash you with our ideals of tolerance and where global warming is only a conspiracy to keep you back. I hope your bubble never bursts because when it does it's not just you who will face the consequences (if only!), we all will.

Dustin Dettmer
Member #3,935
October 2003
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kazzmir said:

Allow me to summarize your post ...

I wish every post had that.. a quick <3 sentence summary to help me decide if I want to read it.

Evert said:

That is also the timescale on which I might trust climate models. Long-term (say, ten thousand years) predictions I would not trust. Weather and climate systems are chaotic, meaning a small perturbation has a large effect.

*

There has to be realistic solutions to these problems if we put our minds to it. Create a sort of terraformer to refreeze the ice-caps or something.

* Deleted because it wasn't really in response to Evert as much as the general populous

FrankyR
Member #243
April 2000
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Quote:

I read a bunch of crap of on the internet that supports my previously held bias, therefore it must be true!

I think that actually summarizes most of the internet.

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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Global Warming should have been called "Global Climate Change".

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Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

Evert
Member #794
November 2000
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Quote:

Create a sort of terraformer to refreeze the ice-caps or something.

You mean, meddle even more with a chaotic system we don't fully understand? You think that's wise?

Either way, that's another part of the problem: too much faith in our own technology. We are capable of some very amazing things, solve lots of problems with technology. But on that scale it's just not going to be enough.
If you like metaphore, then for all our technology we are nothing more than a fly that nature can kill in a single blow. What good is our technology against things like earthquakes, hurricanes or even floods? As a problem this is no different.

X-G
Member #856
December 2000
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Quote:

What good is our technology against things like earthquakes, hurricanes or even floods? As a problem this is no different.

Pretty good, surely? Without technology, most of the southwestern American coast would be rubble by now considering their frequent earthquakery. But, through architectural technology, we've gotten pretty good at resisting earthquakes. Repeat this argument for hurricanes and floods.

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Since 2008-Jun-18, democracy in Sweden is dead. | 悪霊退散!悪霊退散!怨霊、物の怪、困った時は ドーマン!セーマン!ドーマン!セーマン! 直ぐに呼びましょう陰陽師レッツゴー!

Richard Phipps
Member #1,632
November 2001
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That's true. But if these earthquakes, hurricanes and floods increase in magnitude and frequency then parts of the USA are going to start to get uninhabited.

X-G
Member #856
December 2000
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Unless of course our technology continues advancing fast enough to compensate for that, too.

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Since 2008-Jun-18, democracy in Sweden is dead. | 悪霊退散!悪霊退散!怨霊、物の怪、困った時は ドーマン!セーマン!ドーマン!セーマン! 直ぐに呼びましょう陰陽師レッツゴー!

Evert
Member #794
November 2000
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I live in a country that is below sea level. I know we're "pretty good" at building structures that don't collapse immediately when there's an earthquake or building dikes that can keep the water out.
Mostly anyway, although higher-than-average tides and heaver-than-average earthquakes cause lots of troubles. No matter how good our dikes are, if nature "wanted" to breach them, it could without much trouble.

That's not the point I wanted to make though, so let me try to word it more carefully: what sort of technology do we have to prevent earthquakes? Does our technology help us prevent hurricanes? Does it really help in controlling floods? We are good at damage control and at keeping the casualties low, but we have no control over these things. To think that our technology is advanced enough to flip a switch and re-freeze the icecaps is sheer hubris and gives a false sense of security.

Slartibartfast
Member #8,789
June 2007
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Richard Phipps
Member #1,632
November 2001
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Thomas Harte
Member #33
April 2000
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Quote:

kazzmir wins this thread

Do you think there's a way we could get some sort of hotline fitted to his house, so we can just get him to come and deal with it every time Frank Griffin posts one of these idiotic posts of his?

It's a shame he wasn't about in 1999, since back then we believed that Bill Clinton hadn't fathered any babies with prostitutes. Luckily the Drudge Report sorted us out on that one.

X-G
Member #856
December 2000
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Quote:

That's not the point I wanted to make though, so let me try to word it more carefully: what sort of technology do we have to prevent earthquakes? Does our technology help us prevent hurricanes? Does it really help in controlling floods? We are good at damage control and at keeping the casualties low, but we have no control over these things. To think that our technology is advanced enough to flip a switch and re-freeze the icecaps is sheer hubris and gives a false sense of security.

Yet. Our technology may be inadequate now, but that's just a testament to our immaturity as a species, not a decisive falsification of technology as a whole. This is why we need to put more effort into developing our technology, spend more on science, so that eventually our technology will be good enough to withstand even the most brutal assaults of mother nature. To suggest otherwise would be... nihilistic.

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Since 2008-Jun-18, democracy in Sweden is dead. | 悪霊退散!悪霊退散!怨霊、物の怪、困った時は ドーマン!セーマン!ドーマン!セーマン! 直ぐに呼びましょう陰陽師レッツゴー!

Edgar Reynaldo
Member #8,592
May 2007
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It should be pointed out that energy can be added to a system without actually changing the temperature of the system. Take a block of ice at 0 C and add a bunch of heat and it melts into a pool of water at 0 C. The temperature didn't change , but the state of the system did. So where did all the energy that melted all the polar ice come from? Don't think that our actions couldn't have contributed to it.

Richard Phipps
Member #1,632
November 2001
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So if the oceans rise, what technology and at what cost could we protect all the coastline of the USA?

kikabo
Member #3,679
July 2003
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Quote:

Man Made Global Warming what a joke!

, sorry, just an aside, I always thought it was a bit of a waste of effort discussing how much of it was our fault. It's like saying "let's just argue while our climate gets more and more out of control and see if it was our fault or not and if we should have done anything earlier", instead isn't it just obvious that we should try to be less wasteful in things that harm the environment regardless of how much of a proportion of the effect it has ?

FMC
Member #4,431
March 2004
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Quote:

So if the oceans rise, what technology and at what cost could we protect all the coastline of the USA?

Sheesh, you have no imagination.
Of course we will desalinate the water in excess and then use to irrigate the internal deserts. ;)

[FMC Studios] - [Caries Field] - [Ctris] - [Pman] - [Chess for allegroites]
Written laws are like spiders' webs, and will, like them, only entangle and hold the poor and weak, while the rich and powerful will easily break through them. -Anacharsis
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover. -Mark Twain

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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Current desalination technology is rather bad. It leads to water that probably shouldn't be drank regularly, and that most fish wouldn't live healthily in.

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

FMC
Member #4,431
March 2004
avatar

... joke detector malfunctioning... time for upgrade... ;)

[FMC Studios] - [Caries Field] - [Ctris] - [Pman] - [Chess for allegroites]
Written laws are like spiders' webs, and will, like them, only entangle and hold the poor and weak, while the rich and powerful will easily break through them. -Anacharsis
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover. -Mark Twain

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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I just thought I'd add some useless information to an already useless thread! ;)

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

Richard Phipps
Member #1,632
November 2001
avatar

Useless information? Righty'ho!

I claim that Frank is a false prophet and his opinions should be banned from all households with at least one cat.



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