Allegro.cc - Online Community

Allegro.cc Forums » Off-Topic Ordeals » Why don't people understand/like algorithms?

This thread is locked; no one can reply to it. rss feed Print
 1   2 
Why don't people understand/like algorithms?
rockslave
Member #873
January 2001
avatar

Here, while I write this post, I'm "working" as monitor(pseudo-teacher, with pseudo-salary) on a subject that would be translated as Basis of Algorithms.

But, since there is no one here that wants my help, I can mess around the forums. But it is not always the case, for I do also go to the common classes, along with the real teacher(with real salary), and I see how people get screwed up when trying to code.

My questions are:

- Is it a regional problem, is it just in MY university that alumni don't get to understand the ideas?
- Are they just confused for never had seen it, or they are not putting enough effort?
- How to teach programming to stupid people? (trying not to be harsh)
- How the hell don't they like coding, in courses called Computer Engineering or System Analysis, or Data Processing...

Many doubts... :'(

X-G
Member #856
December 2000
avatar

Quote:

Are they just confused for never had seen it, or they are not putting enough effort?

It's usually the former for the first few months, but if they don't get it after a while they're also the latter.

Quote:

How to teach programming to stupid people? (trying not to be harsh)

Don't. Fail them. They're way in over their head, which should be clearly marked. Whatever you do, don't give sympathy grades. Encourage them to take simpler classes until they're at a level where they can handle whatever you're doing now.

--
Since 2008-Jun-18, democracy in Sweden is dead. | 悪霊退散!悪霊退散!怨霊、物の怪、困った時は ドーマン!セーマン!ドーマン!セーマン! 直ぐに呼びましょう陰陽師レッツゴー!

rockslave
Member #873
January 2001
avatar

Just to get things clear, I'm not a teacher, I'm here just to help those who cannot understand... So, 99% people I see here are not understanding anything...

And also, I'd never give grades away, Brazil is too filled up with stupid professionals who should do whole college again, at least 5 times. It makes me MAD!

ReyBrujo
Moderator
January 2001
avatar

Algorithms imply you need to make a research and think before programming. Most programmers (I used to) just throw themselves into coding, hoping to finish it before realizing they are going nowhere :)

--
RB
光子「あたしただ…奪う側に回ろうと思っただけよ」
Mitsuko's last words, Battle Royale

kronoman
Member #2,911
November 2002
avatar

Quote:

How the hell don't they like coding, in courses called Computer Engineering or System Analysis, or Data Processing...

Yes, this is amazing.
In my Programming class, like 99 % of the people there don't like programming, in fact it seems that they hate computers or something :O

Billybob
Member #3,136
January 2003

Quote:

How the hell don't they like coding, in courses called Computer Engineering or System Analysis, or Data Processing...

Well, as long as they play StarCraft on fridays and sundays and hang out at the Off-Topic section here they are still programmers, like all of us.

SonShadowCat
Member #1,548
September 2001
avatar

I don't play Starcraft but I do hang out here, so I'm not a programmer?

People like to believe they know and like an area simply because they are familiar with it( oh I play PC games or use a computer, I like it and can program!).

nonnus29
Member #2,606
August 2002
avatar

When I took an algorithms class it was really lame because the professor implemented all the basic types (stacks, queues, list, and trees) with arrays (in c++). And even then people thought it was hard. Give me a break. Also, most people don't care about red-black trees or B trees.

William Labbett
Member #4,486
March 2004
avatar

i'd say, most keen programmers learnt their stuff themselves with mainly books and manuals. there were no specifically game programming courses dans la UK before 1995.

games (a subset of)- IMO, the only innocent purpose for computers

....... ......... .... ..

;)

[edit]

good luck BTW, teaching people... i'd say it takes a special kind of guy to reach the less intelligent :-/ ppl and get the best out of them..

perhaps, disillusionment and lack of interest comes with not being quite so bright... ...can't be impossible.

how many ppl in your classes ?

james_lohr
Member #1,947
February 2002

I'm always amazed at just how difficult teaching is. Quite often I'm asked by my parents to help my younger brother with his A-level maths. Usually I get agitated, then sarcastic and finally aggressive within about 20 minutes. The worst thing is that by brother isn't stupid - in fact I would guess that he has a higher IQ than myself, he's just bone idle. Even as I try to explain things, I can see how they are going to be misunderstood because of my bad explanation.

Wasn't it Newton who said that if you can't explain a concept to a maid (no offence to any allegro maids ::)) then you don't understand it yourself? Personally I disagree with this statement because you may have lower verbal capabilities than the maid (like myself).

X-G
Member #856
December 2000
avatar

I was actually considering doing the teaching bit for a while, but I realized I wouldn't be able to deal with the stupid people who just don't get it. >:/

People who just need some time to learn I can deal with, but people who just have no motivation, no interest and no brains... urghh...

--
Since 2008-Jun-18, democracy in Sweden is dead. | 悪霊退散!悪霊退散!怨霊、物の怪、困った時は ドーマン!セーマン!ドーマン!セーマン! 直ぐに呼びましょう陰陽師レッツゴー!

Johan Halmén
Member #1,550
September 2001

I work as a music teacher since many years in the same school. The IT (computers) teachers come and go, usually they are students taking a break in studies. Sooner or later (mostly sooner) they find better paid jobs. The math teachers usually stay longer. But there doesn't seem to be much people among them interested in algorithms and programming. Well, that's because they don't teach it. If I come up with an interesting topic in maths/algos/programming, I throw it here rather than discuss with my collegues.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Years of thorough research have revealed that the red "x" that closes a window, really isn't red, but white on red background.

Years of thorough research have revealed that what people find beautiful about the Mandelbrot set is not the set itself, but all the rest.

William Labbett
Member #4,486
March 2004
avatar

Quote:

Wasn't it Newton who said that if you can't explain a concept to a maid (no offence to any allegro maids ) then you don't understand it yourself? Personally I disagree with this statement because you may have lower verbal capabilities than the maid (like myself).

- i don't know who it was, but i think it might have been a child instead of a maid - not sure though.

in fact, i'd have thought maid is more likely.

elver
Member #3,670
July 2003

If they don't seem to be learning, try something different. Try anything different. You know, it could also be that they think they are too smart for your class. This being the "basis of algorithms" and all.

What does your course cover specifically? Maybe you could ask the question in another way? "How to teach the following subjects in a fun, understandable way?" I'm sure people here have tackled these same algorithms during their lives and have found easy ways to learn, remember and visualise them.

The university textbooks I've come across so far are pretty dry, actually. (Won't be going off to the uni until a couple of months from now, but I've been taking lectures about coding at the university already. I got the 6th place in the national coding competition too, heh.) Personally what I've found to be a good way to learn something is having someone explain to you how it's done and why it's done and then trying to do it yourself.

Yes, there will be idiots who still won't get it. I, personally, hate dealing with people who don't get it and don't want to get it. However, when people show some potential for learning, go for it! Teach them!

Oh and X-G, you'd make a great teacher. You have the rare gift of being able to explain things in a clear and simple fashion :)

X-G
Member #856
December 2000
avatar

Yeah, but you're the intelligent kinda guy, unlike those who can hear an explanation five hundred times and see two thousand examples and still don't get it... >_<

In those cases I just want to tell them to do something simpler, take a few easier courses and then come back, but nooo...

--
Since 2008-Jun-18, democracy in Sweden is dead. | 悪霊退散!悪霊退散!怨霊、物の怪、困った時は ドーマン!セーマン!ドーマン!セーマン! 直ぐに呼びましょう陰陽師レッツゴー!

Richard Phipps
Member #1,632
November 2001
avatar

I think that even if someone is not very clever but makes an honest effort I would be pleased to help him/her. But if like X-G said that someone was idle or didn't really want to learn then I would start to question why I'm bothering.

So perhaps Idleness or not wanting to learn is the worst sin for someone who wants to be a programmer. :-/

james_lohr
Member #1,947
February 2002

Quote:

not wanting to learn ... wants to be a programmer

Is that possible? ;)

rockslave
Member #873
January 2001
avatar

The course is the fundamentals, teaching imperative paradigm, like syntax of if, else, while, etc... and getting them to do simple algorithms...

You guys would not believe how hard it is to them to do a program that says what's the bigger number...

Some fault is of the teachers(the real ones) too, I can see that. The one in whose classes I help, well, she had no idea of using the HELP until I tought her... It's embarassing... And they lack understanding english, also.

I bet this is not such a problem on euroupean countries, but in Brazil, most people know nothing about foreing cultures.
Just the same way as 99% population on the world thinks Brazil's capital is Rio de Janeiro and we have carnival during the whole year.

But that's OK ;D

Rick
Member #3,572
June 2003
avatar

Speaking of Brazil, what's with Brizilian race car drivers? Watched the Indy500 yesterday, and aparently there are alot of Brizilian drivers. Just seems out of place. And why do race car drivers have such hot women?

========================================================
Actually I think I'm a tad ugly, but some women disagree, mostly Asians for some reason.

gnolam
Member #2,030
March 2002
avatar

Rick said:

And why do race car drivers have such hot women?

Because they are seen on TV a lot and have tons of money? :)

And racing is what Brazilians do... when they're not having carnivals they race cars and play football ;)

--
Move to the Democratic People's Republic of Vivendi Universal (formerly known as Sweden) - officially democracy- and privacy-free since 2008-06-18!

kentl
Member #2,905
November 2002

Just a comment on the teaching issue. When i started out my computer science studies two years ago i had a guy in my class which found it difficult to understand programming. I thought he was a nice guy so i decided to try and help him out and give him a bit of tutoring myself outside of class to help him out.

But i couldn´t sit beside him all the time so i explained a bit, then wanted him to try and do some of the assignments at his home, so that we could discuss them. But no, he didn´t even try. Which was odd becouse he said that he wanted to learn. Anyway, after half a year he quit studying and returned to his job again. I guess that he wasn´t persistent enough and just gave up immediatly when he thought it was hard.

Sirocco
Member #88
April 2000
avatar

Quote:

And why do race car drivers have such hot women?

Feminine members of the species are adept at locating large sums of money.

-->
Graphic file formats used to fascinate me, but now I find them rather satanic.

Bruce Perry
Member #270
April 2000

Quote:

I bet this is not such a problem on euroupean countries, but in Brazil, most people know nothing about foreing cultures.

Is it really more of a problem there than in an English-speaking country like the UK or the US?

--
Bruce "entheh" Perry [ Web site | DUMB | Set Up Us The Bomb !!! | Balls ]
Programming should be fun. That's why I hate C and C++.
The brxybrytl has you.

Avenger
Member #4,550
April 2004

Why don't people understand/like algorithms?

I understand/like them...;D

Kanzure
Member #3,669
July 2003
avatar

I think it's a matter of not getting instant rewards. Really. I'm going to use a recent example, m-g (sorry, :P). He said he liked the instant-show off. His game was made, quite easily it seems, and he was able to get satisfaction and continue on. In computer courses, alot of people don't like learning so much without applying it to something 'fun'. If you can apply what's learned, and fast, I think it'd be much better.

One example would be when teaching arrays. Make the programmers-in training get a list of all there friends, or at least ten (::) they'll never fill that up :P), make them do a variable for each one and print out the names. Tell them to do it in the least ammount of code. If there are no ahead-of-the-class-people, it'd be pretty bulky. Then introduce arrays, and they can instantly see the use. :)

 1   2 


Go to: