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Progranisms strike again
Adol
Member #2,328
May 2002
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Quote:

Never think of them as a living thing, it'll just create problems.

D_Q

But they are so much cooler when you view them as that! How does one utilize them as a tool, testing the hardiness of your OS or hardware configuration? They seem a lot like bacteria, without white blood-cells interfering. I think it would be mega-cool if you coded up an opposing strain that when released would always delete an enemy progranism if it was born into a folder that had the other strain already in it. Or maybe somehow they could use your computer's memory (ram?) as weapons, which would basically be an indication of how strong each progranism could be when the two strains meet in a folder. Some kind of log of the fighting would be very entertaining to read! :D

Billybob
Member #3,136
January 2003

DarkFact, riiiiiight.
uhh, they can be used as tools in many ways. Testing your OS, yes, but also other things. They make good "baddie" AI(AI that dies a darn lot and is in large numbers). It can also be used to solve problems I'd bet, but not as well would take too long.

Anywho, the worest part about self-modifying programs is, you can't tract them. It'd be hard to tell which strain is strain A or strain B after awhile.

Hey, anyone want to donate parts to the "Build a new Progranism Lab Computer" fund? !I'm dumb!! :P

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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Um.. Noone run these proganisms till they can run without making access violations. How many times have they brought your Windows to a crashing halt? aka: Blue Screen ot even the Black screen :o

(the black screen of total annihilation is the best, it just says, ERROR, please restart, only seen that one once.. I'll bet you've seen it quite a few times now)

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

Torbjörn Josefsson
Member #1,048
September 2000
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BTW: For some reason, it seems like a mutation-rate of 1% works fine in most cases, when doing GA - how do yours evolve?

I've done some pretty cool things playing with GA - some really tough scheduling-problems that would have been very hard to solve in other ways.

Is survival the only feedback? ..might be the only needed one, of course.. and it Would be cool if you got interesting results just from that - emergent stuff rules! :)

Have you looked at Tierra?

--
Specialization is for insects

Billybob
Member #3,136
January 2003

Thomas Fjellstrom, Nope I have never had any bad screens under Windows XP tests. Yes, that's the honest trueth. The worest thing that ever happened during testing was: During reboot windows through a stop error. I had to start off teh WinXP install disc and run a scandisk from there. Everything was fine though.

That happened about 3 times, but nothing serious. Of course, now I'm seeing the "longterm after-math" :P

It's all good. BTW Mutation rate is 10%(1 in 10) and a 1% chance of a double mutation.

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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Quote:

under Windows XP tests

Sorry, I was assuming all dev happened under 9x... How many of the mutations popup a Dr. Watson message?

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

Billybob
Member #3,136
January 2003

Quote:

Dr. Watson message

a what?

phate
Member #2,235
April 2002
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WTF?
What is progranism?

-----
For my next trick... ah fark it.
[Website][Twitter]

Billybob
Member #3,136
January 2003

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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Quote:

a what?

You know that dialog that pops up in XP when theres a crash? and it has a button that says debug on it? (well it doesn't always, but if you have Dr. Mingw, MSVC, or Borland, it does) It usually has a "Send crap to microsoft" message on it... That I believe is Dr. Watson.

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

the_y_man
Member #1,770
December 2001
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Quote:

I know because a window(console) came up every so often(accually quite frequently at one time) and the title said it was emulating something...can't remember.

I need evidence, you claim your proganisms can do so many things, but yet have no proof.
Proof, pretty please!;)

Billybob
Member #3,136
January 2003

Thomas Fjellstrom, ah yes, that window. Why didn't you just say so? I'm dumb!. Uhh, I got those quite often, along with errors that the Progranisms themselves throw out(which are now mangles with random characters, but still slightly readable). I'd ussually take a small rock and lay it on the enter key, that fended away those windows pretty well ;D

the_y_man, I've been wondering when someone was gonna ask that. Well, there are two options. Either you find a Windows XP machine and run them on it(ultimate proof). OR. I have to find a digital camera, run them on my lab computer again (which is in use by someone now...so i'd be risky), and film them. That second option sounds nice, however I don't have any access to a digital camera :-/

My only other option is to use that Windows thingy to login and view that computer's desktop. Run teh progranisms on it, and use some image capture tool to film my screen.

Still there is that risk factor of completely ruining the user's data, which I want to avoid at this point.

Do you really want proof, because I can go to that extent if you really want it. I could use the movie later for whatever purpose :)

CGamesPlay
Member #2,559
July 2002
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umm... Printscreen? MSPaint? A floppy drive? Can't be hard :)

--
Tomasu: Every time you read this: hugging!

Ryan Patterson - <http://cgamesplay.com/>

Billybob
Member #3,136
January 2003

well, a movie would be best, no? Show things happening in real time.

Anyone know of some software that captures the screen and converts to a movie?

the_y_man
Member #1,770
December 2001
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i've run it on win2000 (vmware), never saw emulation, i dont want movies.
I'm not trying to be an a$$ or anything....but empirical data would be best. Empirical data proves a lot dude, it speaks for itself! Think of the skeptics (such as me):o

Billybob
Member #3,136
January 2003

Quote:

Empirical data

huh? What that? Explain please :)

LSd016
Member #3,561
May 2003

Quote:

It usually has a "Send crap to microsoft" message on it... That I believe is Dr. Watson.

What? And I thought watson was that guy from sherlock holmes! Seriousyl tho, its a SEH frame that points to the proc which is executed on fault signal. But the proc itself, i doubt its dr watson. He lives in C:\windows\ and is a diagnostic app.

____________________________________________
[update soon]

the_y_man
Member #1,770
December 2001
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empirical data (sp?) is basically proof data e.g.: numbers, code blocks...

Billybob
Member #3,136
January 2003

I gave you data, 1600 exes, all different from eachother in some slight mutated way. I can also post a couple more if you want. And no, by a couple I mean another couple PACKS(800 exes each), each one is dated so you can watch the progress. I don't remember when I started packaging progress, so I'll have to look.

You can watch their progress from that, or find a Win XP computer at school or something and flunk those puppies on there to see for yourself.

Seeing as how they do random things, I'd imagine you'd need WinXP to get the same results(emulator thingy), although they'll still mutate and the like on any other system.

But like I said, It's difficult for me to be running them again, since my lab computer now has "precious" data on it and I don't have any other useless computers.

the_y_man
Member #1,770
December 2001
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well, Heatly, forgive me, I believe 95% what you're saying, but im going to be a bit of an a$$ about this. Results are not good enough: real data and analysis of the data is required. Just like when you debug a program, black box testing doesnt prove that your program is stable, white box testing is required to prove that it is "stable".

Billybob
Member #3,136
January 2003

So you want to know it is accually mutating? That's not hard to prove. Check the source code I posted, it's all good. Run a clean copy(straight out of your compiler) and run it, you'll see a slow progression of mutations in the EXEs.

Yes, there were bugs in the code, but all of them have been resolved and to the best of my knowledge, they are running as I've told them to.

Either way, it doesn't matter if the current source code works 100% or not, the theory is there, no?

Note: In case you have trouble finding the source code it should be at: [url http://www.cljy.com/~billy/Progranism%20Source.zip]

the_y_man
Member #1,770
December 2001
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ookely dookely, maybe im beeing too demanding, source code is a good proof already, i guess im asking you to write a paper on this proganism;D

Billybob
Member #3,136
January 2003

I will write a paper on it, just haven't gotten around to it. I've demanded myself to do my homework now instead of procrastinating, so I'm doin that right now. Dang this story is messed up, some dude chops of his grandmum's head and throws it into the sky and that becomes the moon...*sigh* I dislike english.

phate
Member #2,235
April 2002
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How the heck do you compile the src in Mingw?

-----
For my next trick... ah fark it.
[Website][Twitter]

Billybob
Member #3,136
January 2003

compile and link all the files? What errors does it give? The thing was coded in MSVC, BTW.

EDIT: nm, I did it myself and found the problems. New source: [url http://www.cljy.com/~billy/ProgranismSource10102003.zip]

That should be compatable with MingW32. To compile I just did

L:*****************>Mingw32-g++ stdafx.cpp Progranism.cpp ProgranismApp.cpp -o ProgranismPure.exe

It'll give warnings about there being no newline, but whatever, not sure why it wants newlines at the end :-/

Enjoy :)

Oh, and in case you weren't yet, BE WARNED. These Progranisms do random things on your system and can cause damage to the system. As thsi thread stated, my lab computer has suffered slightly from these tests on it. If you want to run it, do it under a VM or useless computer. The system of choice is Win XP since that is most stable(maybe 2000?). You can run it on your computer but I take no responsiblity for the damage done.

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