Allegro.cc - Online Community

Allegro.cc Forums » Off-Topic Ordeals » X-Men 2 review

This thread is locked; no one can reply to it. rss feed Print
 1   2   3   4 
X-Men 2 review
Inphernic
Member #1,111
March 2001

Hmm, after reading the first half of the Reloaded script, I'd guess it's an OK movie. :)

Specter Phoenix
Member #1,425
July 2001
avatar

I went and saw X2 when it came out. It was so anticipated that our local theater was sold out of tickets for the whole day by 7:30PM. I liked it (and I'm trying to not do anymore spoilers) but I wish they would have figured a way to use Colosus more since they introduced him in the movie(oops misspelled his name...oh well:)). I'd recommend going and seeing it:D. I think Matrix Reloaded will be cool but I don't care to see The HULK because it looked just plain retarded from the preview they showed.

"Can't a man even talk to himself without being interrupted?" -Krull(1983)
"Through vengence I was born. Through war I was trained. Through love I was found. Through death I was released. Through release I was given a purpose." -- Specter Phoenix
"Programming == AWESOME the rest is just tools to accomplish it."
END OF LINE

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
avatar

Harbinger: The first trailers of Spirited Away made it look lame and pathetic. (and possibly redundant)

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

Korval
Member #1,538
September 2001
avatar

Quote:

The first trailers of Spirited Away made it look lame and pathetic. (and possibly redundant)

But... aren't all of those true :o

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
avatar

Nope. At least not in my oppinion. Spirited Away is my favorite movie.

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

Specter Phoenix
Member #1,425
July 2001
avatar

The Hulk in the preview looked more like a green blob with a head running around instead of a muscle bound genetic freak. I liked the original Hulk movies because at least they had a real guy play the Hulk. In the new movie they used CGI to make The Hulk and it looked terribly fake IMHO. I just don't think it will be any good. Plus they have a line in the movie that just was something you could see coming-"You are making me angry! You won't like me when I'm angry!" In the original movies they had that line somewhere in them so I saw it coming.

"Can't a man even talk to himself without being interrupted?" -Krull(1983)
"Through vengence I was born. Through war I was trained. Through love I was found. Through death I was released. Through release I was given a purpose." -- Specter Phoenix
"Programming == AWESOME the rest is just tools to accomplish it."
END OF LINE

Zaphos
Member #1,468
August 2001

It's not exactly hard to find plot failures and absurdity in the Matrix -- the prime reason for its popularity seems to be the well presented (though technically botched) plot premise (i.e. the tutorial scenes after Neo leaves the Matrix) and (mostly) the sweet camera work / fight scenes. Even if they don't make sense, they're cool! They're overflowing with cool! How can you not like teh cool!

Hence the explanation of why the lobby scene is good:
It looks cool. Further reasoning is unnecessary.

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
avatar

heh. Which also explains why Max Payne was/is cool. Without that coolness, It'd be totally lame and boring.

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

kazzmir
Member #1,786
December 2001
avatar

Most of us agree that games should focus on content, and not graphics, yes? Why doesnt that apply to movies as well? Xmen2 seemed like it was told by an 8-year old who wanted fantastic fight scenes and special effects without any coherence in story. You know how that can be: "and then wolverine fights some guy and rips his head off and then the moon explodes, and then magneto takes over the earth, and then all the xmen defeat magneto, and then the galaxy explodes, and then...".

If you want to see cool graphics for no reason, go look at demos. I dont know if they still have the Assembly gathering, but im sure you can download the entries. And for fighting scenes, any Jackie Chan or Jet Li film is going to have better fight scenes than anything Keanu Reaves can do.

Zaphos
Member #1,468
August 2001

Quote:

any Jackie Chan or Jet Li film is going to have better fight scenes than anything Keanu Reaves can do.

They may have more impressive human stunts, but the fight scenes are more than that. They include camera work (Matrix was hugely innovative), style, choreography, setup, scenery/staging, and a whole set of other factors. Taking this into account, I'd say the matrix had some pretty sweet fight scenes; better than what I'd scene of Jackie Chan / Jet Li (though I'm no expert on their films.)

Furthermore, graphics are "content", most (or at least some) people here want a focus on gameplay, not just content, in games. Which is an issue that is not nearly so analogous to movies ... which obviously are all content, no gameplay :)

Specter Phoenix
Member #1,425
July 2001
avatar

The X2 storyline wasn't that spread out with meaningless events. Secondly, comparing Jackie Chan or Jet Li to Keanu Reeves is majorly off considering Jackie Chan and Jet Li use their martial arts experience and knowlegde in their movies where as Keanu Reeves admittingly doesn't know martial arts at all unless he is trained for a certain movie (ie. Matrix and Matrix Reloaded). X2 did have a few parts where they could have done it different, for example, when the mansion (school) was attacked instead of regrouping right off Logan, Rogue, Bobby, and Pyro went to Bobby's home in Boston which really wasn't needed but they wanted to show off Pyro's powers evidentally to show that he would be a villain at some point (which happens in the end of the movie).

"Can't a man even talk to himself without being interrupted?" -Krull(1983)
"Through vengence I was born. Through war I was trained. Through love I was found. Through death I was released. Through release I was given a purpose." -- Specter Phoenix
"Programming == AWESOME the rest is just tools to accomplish it."
END OF LINE

23yrold3yrold
Member #1,134
March 2001
avatar

Quote:

Most of us agree that games should focus on content, and not graphics, yes? Why doesnt that apply to movies as well?

Tell it.

Quote:

Xmen2 seemed like it was told by an 8-year old who wanted fantastic fight scenes and special effects without any coherence in story.

Really? I found the story quite coherent. Keep in mind this is first and foremost a movie version of the X-Men, directed by a huge X-Men fan and riffing off every classic plot in the comic. X2 drips of GLMK and Dark Phoenix, for example. If you didn't like X2 I would say you were never much of an X-Men fan, since I haven't met one that didn't think it was anything less than excellent (except for cheap Jean death :)). That comment applies more to The Matrix in my opinion :)

Quote:

Hence the explanation of why the lobby scene is good:
It looks cool.

It did not. I can name a million movie scenes that fall in the "lots of shooting" category; why was this better than any of them? You want a scene with a lot of shooting and a good plot too, go rent Heat.

--
Software Development == Church Development
Step 1. Build it.
Step 2. Pray.

Zaphos
Member #1,468
August 2001

The Matrix had a coherent story. Well founded in realistic possibility, no, obeying the second law of thermodynamics, no, but coherent? Yes. I can see no argument for incoherency, aside from those which fault the viewer.

Quote:

It did not.

Clearly your tastes are not representative of those of most of society.

Quote:

why was this better than any of them?

Interesting camera work, semi-rare superpower presentation (fast movement done as slo-mo or "bullet time"), cartwheels and wall kick make for interesting choreography, unique premise for superpowers, music. I wouldn't present this scene as the high-point of the movie, but it still stands above average in my view.

The Matrix did supposedly introduce some new effects into film which have been widely adapted since then; and I think you only saw it semi-lately so perhaps some of the new-ness of it is not appearant to you. Aside from this, you pretty clearly just have a very different taste from the general populace.

While there is nothing wrong with having different tastes, it does make the worth of any of your movie opinions / reviews to anyone but you ... extremely dubious, heh. So I don't think I'll rent Heat any time soon ...

spellcaster
Member #1,493
September 2001
avatar

Quote:

Most of us agree that games should focus on content, and not graphics, yes? Why doesnt that apply to movies as well?

Games != movies.
It's as simple as that. And BTW, a game featuring the richness of even a pretty lame move (Johnny Mnemonic) would rock as well.

And those games with good gfx / lame gameplay are normally fun for a certain amount of time... say 90 minutes ;)

Another point is that you watch a movie, but play a game. The first thing is a passive thing. That's something I don't like at all in games.
It's cool to have short cut scenes between levels (30secs or less) and a nice end movie. If a game has more passive content, it should be very well presented.
A game is something you take part in, so the gameplay actually influences your experience. If you watch a movie, it's visuals / sound / music that defines your XP.

Oh, and there is a reason the FF movie was no success ;) And it's simply that spiffy gfx isn't enough for a movie..

--
There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots.

23yrold3yrold
Member #1,134
March 2001
avatar

Quote:

Clearly your tastes are not representative of those of most of society.

Clearly ::) You haven't seen the matrix bashing on GameDev (of all places), have you? ;) Lots of my views are not representative of most of society, which the non-answer I usually hear when I ask why Thing A is so revered *shrug*

Quote:

Interesting camera work, semi-rare superpower presentation (fast movement done as slo-mo or "bullet time"), cartwheels and wall kick make for interesting choreography, unique premise for superpowers, music.

I don't recall anything particularily special about the camera work, slow-mo has been used during heavy shootout scenes since before Die Hard, the cartwheels and wall kicks looked ridiculous (running up that wall probably made Trinity easier to shoot), there was no superpowers on display that I saw (other than coolness == invincibility), and the music wasn't particularily stand-out.

Quote:

The Matrix did supposedly introduce some new effects into film which have been widely adapted since then; and I think you only saw it semi-lately so perhaps some of the new-ness of it is not appearant to you.

Wrong answer. A movie should be judged by more than how flashy it is. I saw The Exorcist who knows how long after it first came out, and I could see clearly why horror fans still love it. The effects should fit the movie, not just be used for newness sake, and especially not carry the movie (as seems to be the case for The Matrix). As they say, the best special effects are the ones you never notice.

Quote:

Aside from this, you pretty clearly just have a very different taste from the general populace.

Judging from the album sales of Britney Spears and the Backstreet Boys, I suspect you are right.

And Heat is a pretty well recieved movie, with an A-list cast. I only mentioned it because it was known for a million-bullet shootout which was far better than the lame lobby scene. It's an okay movie; check it out sometime.

--
Software Development == Church Development
Step 1. Build it.
Step 2. Pray.

Zaphos
Member #1,468
August 2001

Um, their "superpowers" in that scene are really just that they can move fast.

Quote:

Wrong answer. A movie should be judged by more than how flashy it is.

Yes, but in movies and games alike, graphical innovation will get the producers a substantial, if merely temporary, amount of appreciation.

Anyway, as a said, I don't think it was a standout part of the movie, so ... whatever. Actually, you're probably technically right in most of your complaints about the movie (this based on previous arguments/discussions with you, heh), and all I can really say is that I had fun watching it. shrug.

And I may check out Heat some time, then. Need to see what's the big deal about Spirited Away first though :)

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
avatar

$movies{"Spirited Away"}{"Classification"} eq "Alice In Wonderland without the narcotic use";

And I totally agree. The Matrix was cool. I'll never give it best of anything. But It was cool.

I watch movies for pure enjoyment. Ripping movies's dialog, writing, and acting apart realy realy ruins the whole thing. Unless the whole thing ruined it its self... But I haven't seen a movie that made me want to stop watching it right away in quite a while.

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

Korval
Member #1,538
September 2001
avatar

Quote:

Most of us agree that games should focus on content, and not graphics, yes?

"Most of us" may agree, but I do not.

Graphics are an important tool for immersion. If all you want is gamism, that's what Tetris was created for. If you're trying to create a world with some kind of depth in it, you're going to need graphics.

A game with poor graphics is always less enjoyable than that same game with good graphics. I want the total package; no aspect of a game, from graphics to plot to sound to gameplay, is more important than another.

Evert
Member #794
November 2000
avatar

Quote:

Keep in mind this is first and foremost a movie version of the X-Men, directed by a huge X-Men fan and riffing off every classic plot in the comic. X2 drips of GLMK and Dark Phoenix, for example. If you didn't like X2 I would say you were never much of an X-Men fan, since I haven't met one that didn't think it was anything less than excellent (except for cheap Jean death :)).

Bearing in mind that I was never a fan of the X-Men comics (not a fan as in I never read them, not as in I didn't like them), will I miss a lot about the movie? My gfw/s saw it and said it was cool, but she's a fan of the comics. I've heard less than stellar comments from people who didn't know the comocs.
I did like the first movie, though...

Zaphos
Member #1,468
August 2001

Quote:

no aspect of a game, from graphics to plot to sound to gameplay, is more important than another.

I was with you all the way till then, Korval, but I think it's pretty clear that if you're going to be missing/skimping on an aspect, you're more likely to make an entertaining game if that which is skimped is not gameplay. This is to say that one can have a somewhat entertaining game which has crappy graphics and no sound because a game can ride on gameplay, but a game with no gameplay and just gfx / sound will no longer really qualify as a game (and furthermore be less likely to be fun when evaluated in the context of a game) ...

That said, it's obviously better if you don't skimp on any category / execution across the board is excellent. And once was has the gameplay, graphics and sound ARE hugely relevant -- how many people would enjoy icy tower if it had no sound, used allegro's system font only, and only drew filled rects for platforms, and a circle for Harry?

23yrold3yrold
Member #1,134
March 2001
avatar

Evert: You'll be able to follow it easily enough. Just because the movie was partly inspired by GLMK doesn't mean you have to have read it to be able to understand what's going on :) If you liked the first movie you'll probably enjoy this one.

--
Software Development == Church Development
Step 1. Build it.
Step 2. Pray.

Paul Pridham
Member #250
April 2000
avatar

On a sidenote... I was watching some old Spiderman/X-Men cartoon at my in-laws house, and Wolverine had an Australian accent... I just thought that was funny.

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
avatar

Which is funny since IIRC The Wolverine in X1/2 is Australian.

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

23yrold3yrold
Member #1,134
March 2001
avatar

LIES! Wolverine is Canadian in all continuities and proud of it!!

Why do you think he calls himself the Canuklehead?

--
Software Development == Church Development
Step 1. Build it.
Step 2. Pray.

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
avatar

Really? Ooops. Wrong movie! Sory.

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

 1   2   3   4 


Go to: