Anyone out there familiar with programming want to colloborate?
Tyler Wrobel

Anyone out there familiar with programming want to work on an open source team project building a game? I am still learning C++. I have a lot of experience designing top down games in flash (actionscipt 2.0). Anyone interested in talking the shit or about our ideas. I figure we could probably use something like a git repository to collaborate in real time. I still have some legacy code of my I would like to spin up into a game.

I definitely want to build in C/C++, but I am willing to compromise.

Niunio

Why not Pascal? ::)

Tyler Wrobel

Is pascal portable?

Niunio

Is pascal portable?

Don't you know what's Pascal? Free Pascal (with or without Lazarus IDE and library) and Delphi (AFAIK the only two with support for Allegro through Allegro.pas) are cross platform, so my answer will be yes, it is.

LennyLen

Pascal is a pretty decent language. Its biggest shortcoming these days though is its relative obscurity (as witnessed in this thread). I was quite happy to learn it when I did (there weren't a lot of options in the 80's), but I can't think of many reasons why I would want to learn it now if I hadn't already. It doesn't offer any advantages over other languages, and there is nowhere near the amount of online resources as what you will find for C/C++/C# or even Python.

Tyler Wrobel

I don't know. After thinking about it I am almost thinking about making a game in flash. Adobe Animate is its most recent form and it looks pretty promising.

Felix-The-Ghost

I'd love to contribute to a project every now and then. Could be an opportunity to better familiarize myself with all the collaborative software out there.

I did a great bit of work on another open source game called Assault Cube, but back then I would either tell someone what lines to change or provide a .diff file :3

Tyler Wrobel

I am learning git. I am not sure what is better. But, I really need help with graphics. If I could partner with someone who was very good at designing sprites and textures I would love to do something.

I want to design a 2d game with 3d support or a 2d / 3d game focusing around the frilled edges in the definition between urban crime and war.

Felix-The-Ghost

Any examples of a "look" that you want?

Tyler Wrobel

I can definitely make some / find some.

EDIT: I will work on drumming some sketches up through out the week. I really originally wanted to do something with very rich 2 / d graphics and then implement some 3d graphics to handle intensive things like special effects and vehicles. However, all that stuff is in my old tower, I don't have access to. So I wanted to do a couple graphics, but haven't gotten around to it. In the meantime I have to say I am very impressed with this program I found called three.js. I looks so simple to implement in a web hosted structure. I am not sure what programs you can program with it on the back and how far you can go with it compatibility wise if you did adapt some kind of framework for deploying it with a lower level scripting source like PASCAL. I want to learn this thing, the best part about this is that we could possibly pioneer something with this and have a possibility to deploy some type of version control software that we could use in real time. I am thinking very optimistically but I think a build with something like three.js would be a refreshing idea because it is so lightweight.

I am working on setting up my own personal website, hopefully we can use that as a base of operations for experimenting.

Felix-The-Ghost

bump to avoid lock

Tyler Wrobel

So I was looking to find a cheap way to get flash on my computer but I have an old copy of Macromedia. so I can draw but now. I am honestly considering subscribing to the adobe creative cloud however. They are having a 2 year minimal obligation sale in which they are offering all of their products for a consistent $39.99 a month for 2 years. I am skeptical however. It would give me a very easy platform to get some ideas out but a lot of people are still talking about the potential obsolescence of flash coming. I just don't see why, after all it is so versatile. I really only like flash for its drawing tools but at the same time it is a decent animation and scripting platform if you can develop within its limitations, definitely can. My version of Macromedia is from an old install I copied off of a 32 bit system running xp I used to have. I tried installing it to a desktop I had running windows 10 and it ran but not so well. It would return garbage values for many equations but it still ran, which is actually not surprising. I really won't design graphics in anything other than Flash, I am willing to work with any other programs I just want to start there. I will use paint to doodle but not really worth it because almost anything designed in paint has no hope of evolving to any meaningful creation in any real multimedia role. I don't think right now is the time for a program outside of my current area of skills unless I can find someone else can collaborate with flash who has the newest Animate CC installed. I am going to look for a replacement to flash for designing sprites and other things in the meantime that support transparency and have a decent GUI. I hate photo shop, I like being able to drag and draw shapes like in flash without all the silly steps in between idea and drawing, I am trying to see if I can tolerate GIMP. Than I am going to look into pascal, I figure I will know where I stand in 1-2 weeks. I am currently working on a program in C that parses text documents into objects and I want to a mass all my available resources on that right now - at least for the next week or two. If I still had some of my work from my prior build of the game I was working on I would have un-doutbly posted them here already. But, needless I think it is important that it be understood that this project specifically is no where near the top of my food chain of priorities. I just would love to bring something into this world that could bring back the love and show the potential for flash once again. I hopefully will post before this forums gets locked. I am working nights at work right now, it is kind of biting me in the butt. ;)

Or, to better rephrase what I was trying to say in less words. I really, really really want to make a game in flash or a similar program, however I am in no rush. Once I find something I think I can show you I will post it up here. And I apologize for my slow basic b*tch mentality. I am working a couple single 8 hour shifts a week and 2 double 16 hour shifts right now.

Felix-The-Ghost

subscribing to the adobe creative cloud

Gross :-X

You could just do what I did and get legacy versions that you can buy once and just own, instead of subscribing to the idea of a "service fee"

I think the idea that Flash will eventually be obsolete is because HTML5 can do more or less the same thing, to my knowledge. The actual tools to create the assets I imagine will never lose utility however.

It sounds like you have an affinity for vector graphics. I am well-trained in Adobe Illustrator though I have never created vector graphics specifically for games. Honestly I was hoping you were looking for a pixel artist :3

If you want to try something now I hear good things about Inkscape ;)

Edgar Reynaldo

I want a graphics editor that is capable of managing a collection of 'drawable' objects, that I can freely re-z-order and merge layer by layer. You can do quite a lot with Paint.net but it's not a very good drawing tool. Better for working with layers and blenders and effects and such. You should be able to edit any 'object' at any time, given that you haven't merged it with a layer.

tl;dr; I've always wanted to write my dream image editor, that combines Inkscape, Paint.net, (not GIMP, I hate GIMP), and Microsoft Digital Image Editor (had super image manipulation capabilities such as rotate and flip and tile and lots more).

Tyler Wrobel

Edgar -t hen in a nutshell what you are describing in flash back when it was called macromedia flash 2004 - 2008. I can't speak of its current platform 'adobe animate cc', but cs3 and cs4 may be even better. I think I managed to try them and and their gui was slightly more visually appealing than macromedia 2008 but animate cc just looks way different. It provided damn near everything you are looking for, layers in macromedia is awesome. It looks like they kept that stuff moving into the animate cc franchise and also moved its functionality over to a program called adobe illustrator cc, which would appear to be more tailored for straight forward graphics use.

Felix - but, I agree. The concept of a service fee is gross. Especially for something like flash, but I am curios if you can't outright purchase the newest versions. I would be to scared to buy adobe cs4 on the single fact that when I tried to run macromedia flash I couldn't run some of the code I had written from just a few years ago. I wanted to use sin and cosin and but my functions were returning nothing but garbage. Although I do love that suggestion. But like I said 39.99 for all their programs including dreamweaver. Its a tough sell. Its a wild marketing scheme. I really want to save money thats my only dilema in deciding if I will go ahead and get it. Its a minimum 2 yr contract but I know I probably will get use out of it. I just started this download for inkscape. I am extremely curios how this works.

For the size and scale of the game I was working on and couldn't continue because my pc (both windows nt) wouldn't run the old adobe properly I am not sure if you could keep up if you are endowed to be a pixel artists. I feel like my understanding of this term is poor but I do believe you prefer to edit imagery or create images one pixel at a time. So my assumption would be that you work in sprites.

That project was more or less a long shot plan at building a more vivid more alive version of something of the first grand theft auto series. Although, only scraps of what once was have survived I have not forgotten the lessens I had learned. I had brought flash programming to what I would consider the brink of its possible potential I feel so many flash projects are a waste because they lack sophistication. I spent years developing AI to create a world that could support massive civil unrest and chaos. But, I could not get over one hurtle. This would be.. my lack of artistic ability. I can draw weapons and characters. I could code basic schematics to make clothing rendering and patterns appear more realistic and efficient and I can even draw environments. But, I cannot draw cars. So I have come to the conclusion that is why I need 3d. I figure 3d vehicles would be he perfect solution In my case because of the need for realism they would provide and they would work great with a simple bounding box. And they would be especially usefull in rollover animations as I would not have to render each shape or perform custom frustum culling to provide proper fills for area paint. Looking back. Had, I just made one car this way. Maybe that would have been enough. But, I also wanted to do interiors. Which IMO would be an improvement over grand theft auto because they have always sucked at interiors. To design alot of interiors isn't that hard so I really don't understand why they couldn't handle more, but as one person it is alot. I am not sure what graphics you want to make but there are potentially alot of things someone with your skills could make if not the former.

My general scheme for characters started with their shoes then their calves then their thighs then their waist then their torso(somescenes I used upper and lower torso extremeties to create the appearance of croutching.) then shoulders then head then hair and than bi ceps and forearms and hands and weapons was all layered directly under the head. Than ofcourse I used a rendering scheme and drew each extremity to the screen everyframe to allow more fleixble configurations or the layers and for this I kept all the layers in a string that ordered accordingly. The string could be edited at anytime to allow different parts of the body to appear on top and each sections of the body was subject to further instructions. So in the event of a combat roll I could replace any of the standard frames to be loaded with an alternative that better supported camera angle in relation to the character throughout the roll. So with that being said I plan on programming in threejs. It looks incredibly powerfully and I think it can support this project.

Felix-The-Ghost

It looks like they kept that stuff moving into the animate cc franchise and also moved its functionality over to a program called adobe illustrator cc, which would appear to be more tailored for straight forward graphics use.

Not sure what you mean, Illustrator is much older.

Quote:

including dreamweaver

Disgusting :-X

Quote:

Its a tough sell. Its a wild marketing scheme.

Indeed it is.

Quote:

like I said 39.99 for all their programs

Quote:

Its a minimum 2 yr contract

$39.99 x 24 months+ is $959.76+ when you can acquire ownership of the specific programs you want for much cheaper in the long-run.

Perhaps even in the short-run. I encourage you to search for "legacy" software before going all out with a 2 year contract. I don't know what OS you use but for example here is Flash CS5 for $82.25 (for OSX) The oldest Adobe version of Flash is CS3. You could search for "Adobe Flash CS3" in various places.

Quote:

but I know I probably will get use out of it. I just started this download for inkscape. I am extremely curios how this works.

Let me know what you think. I fooled around with it for a little while some time ago but it's no Illustrator.

Quote:

I feel like my understanding of this term is poor but I do believe you prefer to edit imagery or create images one pixel at a time. So my assumption would be that you work in sprites.

Right, in the context of video games most of my work has been with raster images rather than vector images. Of course a lot can be done without true vector images by just rasterizing the graphics into a format easier to use.

Quote:

That project was more or less a long shot plan at building a more vivid more alive version of something of the first grand theft auto series.

You mean the old top-down games?

Quote:

I spent years developing AI to create a world that could support massive civil unrest and chaos.

You might want to team up with piccolo ;)

Quote:

I figure 3d vehicles would be he perfect solution In my case because of the need for realism

Displaying the 3D model could be more difficult, but this is outside of my expertise as I have minimal experience with creating 3D assets.

Quote:

Which IMO would be an improvement over grand theft auto because they have always sucked at interiors.

Car interiors? I haven't actually played the game but I didn't think there was any interior to the vehicles in the game you mentioned.

Quote:

I am not sure what graphics you want to make but there are potentially alot of things someone with your skills could make if not the former.

Perhaps UI elements or icons, failing anything else.

Quote:

So with that being said I plan on programming in threejs. It looks incredibly powerfully and I think it can support this project.

I'm not familiar with that, it is derivative of Javascript? Just curious if you being an allegro.cc member have programming experience with Allegro 4 or 5?

Tyler Wrobel

I actually wasn't aware of illustrator until now. Dreamweaver isn't a sell. I agree that it would be more efficient to target the specific programs needed would be cheaper buying legacy versions but I don't fell like dulling out the money for that all up at once, not right now. It turns out the subscription is for "just" one year. I pur jhust in quotes because never the less that is a total some of some $470. Still alot. Actually now that i think about it I probably should have gone with legacy, but I can stand by my decision to try it because I am more worried about building my pc up to run video and programming software and this will give me a chance to put it under a decent load by working with after effects and adobe premiere. I have an alienware 17r3 the fhd model. I want to build something smaller to dual but linux and windows 7 or something. I will not renew the contract and I will build a knowledge of price points for legacy until then, I will save for a year and then pick up something and do some discount shopping then. I did look up legacy cs3 on ebay but at the time got side tracked and thought "ohhhh, hey that comes with premiere and after effects. neat." and then I bought it. At first look I am not overly impressed with inkscape, but if I was severely desperate I can see myself actually using this. Right, my prior knowledge of rasterization is the idea of pixels and my understanding of vectors in straight lines. I guess I work in both planes so to speak. After the late 1980's consumer and industry stopped producing vector monitors. I was thinking of laser vector displays. But, In a sense the two terms are synchronous In modern computing. When a line segment is to be rendered to a display monitor the underlying technique to display it is rasterization. So, I do work in both. I don't believe I have ever worked directly with vector graphics at the level that would be necessary to deem me a vector artist but I do however program in a way that allow my graphics to be rendered using vector geometry.

Quote:
You mean the old top-down games?

No. I worked hard on that game but probably don't have the artistic skills and or desire to draw all that many graphics by myself. I hate drawing graphics. I can program them but would still love to draw some as well to add character. But, I personally feel that old top-down games never met their full potential. I feel like so much more could have been done with them. Even at the time. Top-down games leave so much of the system the are operating on to compute more and a top down game engine could be designed efficiently enough that you could use so much of what the game lacks in graphics could be made up for with true to life intellectual and emotionally satisfying content.

Quote:
You might want to team up with piccolo ;)

I am assuming dragon ball z? Not, some other programmer in these forums? ;)

Quote:
Displaying the 3D model could be more difficult, but this is outside of my expertise as I have minimal experience with creating 3D assets.

I developed an efficient model for doing them in flash. However I knew the processing power of flash would never withstand them so I decided to move up*(down so to speak) to something lower level.

Me
Quote:
Which IMO would be an improvement over grand theft auto because they have always sucked at interiors.

Quote:
Car interiors? I haven't actually played the game but I didn't think there was any interior to the vehicles in the game you mentioned.

No, building interiors. Rockstar games uses in-efficient lighting models and that is why the stray away from animating inside buildings. They do their best to make it seem purposeful but it is really just because to much of their games depend on some of their legacy code with sucks to bad to support rich interior environments in any of their games.

Me
Quote:
I am not sure what graphics you want to make but there are potentially alot of things someone with your skills could make if not the former.

Quote:
Perhaps UI elements or icons, failing anything else.

That would be awesome.

Me
Quote:
So with that being said I plan on programming in threejs. It looks incredibly powerfully and I think it can support this project.

Quote:
I'm not familiar with that, it is derivative of Javascript? Just curious if you being an allegro.cc member have programming experience with Allegro 4 or 5?

Yes it is a derivative of Javascript. I am so that I have been so busy but I am learning about it enough. It has a nice API. Once I have a little more time today I am going to build something with it. To use it is also incredibly simple. Here is a link https://threejs.org/. At the time I am still trying to get allegro to work correctly. I know I can't be messing up that bad but I am using Windows 10 and building libraries from is new to me. So, I am figuring it out.

Felix-The-Ghost

Funny, after posting about threejs I started getting vague memories from when I was in a web design class and people were investigating jquery and the like.

This is piccolo
He has grand aspirations including a time machine and things like that. His posts are generally over-the-top in some way so you reminded me of him.

Tyler Wrobel

haha. I really want to get my hands dirty on version control, what more do you know about that?

Felix-The-Ghost

I'm no expert on the subject. In the last project I collaborated on we used SVN. I have been wanting to use bitbucket which is free to back-up my own project for some time though.

I think people here would recommend GitHub. I have minimal experience with it though.

Edgar Reynaldo

I really like BitBucket. Some people think I'm committing career suicide by not using GitHub though. I think one major shortcoming of BitBucket compared to GitHub is GitHub's great code search. It simplifies some things immensely. It's one reason I've been considering the move, but I really like BitBucket.

EDIT - That and the .md support. That's pretty nice.

GIT repos are the way to go, wherever you store them. SVN is dead in the water, and Mercurial is obscure and doesn't do anything GIT can't.

EDIT3
Nevermind, they did.

Tyler Wrobel

What did they do? You said you want to program you own paint program and the such. What programming language would you recommend to use to create an advanced version of notepad( I want to code an IDE.)?

Edgar Reynaldo

Don't code a new IDE, contribute to an existing one. CodeBlocks is superb but has a few quirks that could stand to be fixed.

Tyler Wrobel

Ok. BTW, does allegro have the ability to support painting individual pixels? I want to program my own raster functions.

Felix-The-Ghost

A4 and A5 both support it. A5 is hardware-accelerated.

Tyler Wrobel

Do you know if allegro would support developing a simple program to overlay simple text onto my display ontop of everything? I want to program a project that will allocate a small area in the top left corner of my screen to a transparent layer that will display the time in h:mm:ss:ms (ms for milliseconds to the hundredths place. I will use to keep time in animation across multiple platforms and programs. It needs to stay on top all the time and preferable all white space would be transparent. So, a little exploring into animate cc and it would appear that adobe has discontinued support for action script 2.0. This was a incredibly heart breaking discovery, but apparently the subscription allows you to download older versions in addition to later release and thankfully it comes with CS6 so I can program in actionscript 2.0. I really don't know how I would have felt else wise. Probably, not too at ease.

Edgar Reynaldo

Allegro by itself doesn't support transparent overlay windows. You need to create a compatible OpenGL context window to allow for transparent drawing. There are tutorials out there. I think Allegro can now use the OpenGL context you create to draw with (A5).

What you need is to create a window with a color key for transparency, or an OpenGL context that allows for translucency.

Tyler Wrobel

I posted here http://www.tylerwrobel.com/sof_man_gun.html a .swf file with an idea of the type of graphics I would like to make for my game. I am considering building my own API for implementing graphics but have not yet decided if I want to go that route or when and how and where I will do that if or if I am not to use flash. Ideally if, I use flash the API will utilize some kind of external loading mechanism that loads .jpegs into the game, thus making it open source so outside parties can collaborate and share sprite images. I do not think flash alone would be powerfull enough to utilize complete sprite sheets in that sense. But, if I could devise a spread sheet that entailed sizing for the individual sprites that would make a consistent format I could run server code inbetween that allowed for individuals to host their own .jpegs from anywhere on the internet and have a medium inbetween breaking down sprite sheets into .jpegs and dynamically loading them into flash. I am kinda steering away from .threejs because i think its API is so ugly and in addition I know enough to program my own graphics engine so that would be kinda pointless as it already inteprets 3d graphics and I want to have full access to the development of the code inbetween the xy and xz planes to build my own guidances. I could definetly use help with some ui for my other program I am making. It is complete for beta and I want to move it to production level with a gui. I am still installing allegro but I am going to make a portable version of it in javascript and possibly ncapi/C++. I want to make a native browser version and a half/javascript/c++ model aswell but I am willing to do one with allegro and c++ which I will also be looking for someone who owns a mac to help me make a port to mac. The fact that allegro is portable keeps me interested in learning how to do so. To be clear when I talk about all this cross platform stuff I am referring to the virtual flash cards game I am programming, but below I discuss the link to the file above. If you have some ui work you can show me I would definetly love to check it out and see if I want use it for the allegro and javascript/c++ independent(browser side) versions.

I did that example above in literally like 2 minutes. I do not anticipate doing the holy grail of graphics engines with this one but more or less just enough. I anticipate compensating for mediocre quality with decent gameplay, but if you are into designing graphics for characters/terrain/vehicles/etc and they are excellent I will adapt to that. I drew those with my touch pad. I am going to buy a wireless mouse today (they are the only things I like to draw on the pc with), and start pushing out more graphics/code. I really don't anticipate spending long on this game. But, I am willing to adapt to any graphics styles. If you want to contribute any graphics I will work around you style(i.e. sprite sheets or raster graphics) to accommodate the coding end so you do not have to change the way you work to produce them. I used to be into drawing individual segments for all the parts of the body then using geometry and code and position them in relative position to the human body but I will not be going that route this time. I feel like it is to much work after porting it from animator to development anymore, not worth it when you think about the amount the quality of gameplay would actually go up. Since it is 2d I will keep the graphics in 2d(with the exception of vehicles if I can find people motivated to help, I may even start them on my own but will not be fielding them in this version if I have to design them myself as I would like to debug for longer than this). I am going to make this game a short story. This will simplify things. Then I will develop a portable library of the scripting and decide what to build next. I am open to changing the story if anyone participating had any idea. Like I said I would be totally cool working with sprite sheets too. Also do you know of any good site to find people who enjoy that kind of work(designing characters, scenes/and animation)? I want to put the word out I would love to see how large of a support group I could find, an armada would be excellent, I enjoy coding ambiguous scipt so literally the more graphics the better. The more credit to give other artists and the more diverse the end result.

Felix-The-Ghost

TL;DR ::)

Just kidding, but I will have to read this later, so I will post to bump the thread and keep it from locking ;)

Tyler Wrobel

;D. I am going to learn how to program in pascal today.

I like it. I am going to start using sprites with this.

Felix-The-Ghost

Whew. Just read all that text.

You could probably find more collaborators at GDR.

Please don't use JPEG. Lossy compression, doesn't support transparency. Try PNG instead. JPEG could be acceptable for maybe large textures but not items where detail is more important like icons/sprites. If you were using vector graphics I'd suggest SVG but you mentioned you weren't interested in that route.

When you say "wireless mouse" are you referring to a drawing tablet?

You mentioned a flash card game, I'm still not sure what type of game you are seeking collaborators on.

Tyler Wrobel

I will definitely check out GDR. I may use some vector graphics, probably not. I though .jpgs would have higher file size. I may do some of the texture work with vector graphics. I am not feeling SVG, maybe you know some good sources to read up on its capabilities? I looked it up and it seems rather limited. The three.js and two.js libraries (supersets), seem expanded upon and way better. I actually mean a wireless mouse, I get annoyed using the cord. I was at an international mall the other day and seen an alternative "drawing pad", as you were speaking of to some of the typical American brands, but I actually was just talking about a mouse. It looked nice, and reasonably priced. My biggest problem is being lazy and wanting to sit or lay down in bed when working on the computer, or to sort of sit upright with my back against the wall while I work. I need to find some way of not doing this.

As far as the flash game goes, even YouTube just moved to Html5, Flash is dieing, if not completely dead. I would say that it is dead but I believe it can still be used successfully if to deliver content in restricted settings but that is sad.

I am not going to make a game in Flash, persea that is not my intent right now. I am already building a cross platform c++/javascript engine, that uses c++ for the calculation intensive stuff but a front end/graphics of Three.js running locally. I am calling this game "Bank Job". I want to use it to demonstrate the potential of 2D games with a vast display of weapons and mayhem. In retro-spec I could still do this game in Flash.

Thread #616600. Printed from Allegro.cc