If you have ever made posts on facebook promoting democracy and human rights, you will know what I'm talking about

Maybe you know too many ass-holes. Also how did you manage to invoke godwin's law before even writing your message?

I have no asshole facebook friends, trust me. I know one or two assholes, but I would never accept those people as my FB friends. And no, I didn't mention the nazis on FB

Except you said you have issues when you bring up democracy and human rights.. Most (or all) of the people that will see that are your friends. Meaning your friends have something against one or both of those things. That makes them a-holes

I shared on of Sam Harris' posts, I suppose that's the problem. It's pretty fucked up that Facebook acts like fascists while Mark Zuckerberg has said publicly (IIRC) that he is an atheist.

This is an example of the fucked up shit that Facebook seems to have no problem with: https://www.facebook.com/Page.I.Love.Islam

Why would the Facebook Corporation have a problem with that page?

What did you post this time, a dead malnourished black baby with "Messiah" carved into her forehead?

Are you Jack the Ripper's grandchild or something? EDIT: You didn't look at the page, did you?

Anway, here's the artice I shared: http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/lifting-the-veil-of-islamophobia

Did you find anything in particular? I looked at the page. I see posts like "Do you respect your parents?", "Allah, bring peace to all Islamic countries" and "Allah listens and knows what's in your heart". The posts are (obviously) pro-Islam, but your post mentioned something about human rights. You're not clear about what that means to you, but you're implying that this group should not have the right to worship in a manner they are?

I don't see anything wrong with your article, but I'm not going to read the whole thing.

Wow, I didn't hope to meet a fellow believer here I too love suppressing women, sexually mutilating children, and killing people for being homosexuals or freethinkers. But the one thing I love the most of all is torturing people in the name of Allah. Allahu akbar!

EDIT: I got a standard "issue resolved" reply from Facebook. Yay.

Um yeah... The entire religion, and people aren't all a-holes. Sure, there are plenty, but you seem to be assuming that any mention of allah and islam is a bad thing.

No, you have to look at the Facebook page I posted.

EDIT: But yes, the three big monotheistic religions are generally a bad, bad thing. Which is proven to us again and again, every day, all over the world. People are fooled into believing in a version of reality that does not exist. And that has practical consequences that are often not very positive.

I did. It's all lame "allah loves you" images. Same thing you'd find on a christian page. Also on other random pages that are about one specific subject that has fans.

Then you probably don't get the same page I do. I get several pictures of women in burkas, for starters.

You know, considering how much you hate Facebook I'm surprised you still use it... and before you say anything in response: I do not presently, nor have ever had a Facebook account and I do not want one.

If Facebook aggravates you so much just STOP using it. You'll feel a lot better and you'll be inspiring people to follow suit. If enough people abandon Facebook there'll be little to no more money to make from it and it will die a slow, painful death.

I'm not sure what you believe me to believe in, but I'm happy to exceed your hopes in a way that makes you smile.

I'm very sorry to hear that and hope you see help soon

Any post or other content published through Facebook by the group you cited can be reported using the features available, but I don't know of anyone using this forum who is able to administer the content they posted to Facebook that you found so alarming.

In short, pictures of women in burkas does not qualify as offensive. Your potty mouth does. Sorry

It's their problem that their wearing these. As as long as remains their tradition^[1] and they don't force others to do so, I'm quite fine with that. It's not in my power to change that no matter how I disagree with it. Besides, not all Muslim women wear burkas and those who do usually don't want to get rid of them.

That is very distorted view based mostly on the loud crowd of Islamic extreminst minority and excesses in some of the most undeveloped countries. I'd very much advise you to take a trip to Tunisia or even Iran and get among the common folk. I have a friend who'd been in Lybia and Tunisia few years back and he said that the common people there are the most friendly people he had ever met. Another friend of mine was in Iran and told similar story.

So, just my 0.02$

I'm sorry, but that's just wrong. Part of the whole coercion is that they are told that this is what Allah wants, this is for the best, etc. Maybe some of them actually buy that, but that still doesn't make it right. A bird that has lived in a cage all its life doesn't know what freedom is. And if someone asks them what they think of wearing a burkha, they know they have to pretend that everything's fine. That's part of the whole thing. I'm sure there are exceptions, but you get the idea.

Why do you feel that this is somehow ok because they are from the Middle East or thereabouts? Do they have different needs, desires and feelings than women from the western world? You seem to be dealing in a kind of moral relativism here.

But that's not because they are muslims, it's because they are people. It's just not an argument in this debate.

Now, that is the root of the problem. I'm not an expert on Islam but from what I know and what I read I can tell you this: the only legal language for Koran is Arabic, it is spoken in a minority of Muslim countries, so basically the majority doesn't understand exactly what's written in the text and they pretty much depend on what their imans (their preachers) tell them.

Sure, they are people like you and me. But they are of a different culture, radically different. It is rigidly partiarchal society (reinforced by Burkhas etc.) and deeply religional. You coming there and telling them this and this is wrong because it goes against the human rights would enrage them, they would see it as an attack on their culture and religion. They have the right to believe in what they want to believe.

Simply put, you cannot force onto someone your idea of human rights. That would just invalidate the whole idea. I know it's bad that if some woman in the Middle East doesn't want to obey that stupid law she can't elect not to. But there's no simple way of changing that. The change will hopefully come but it will take some years.

Let's do it the other way around (no offence intended). How would you feel if I told you that I found practicing your religion (Christianity I assume) disgusting based on the fact that you are eating a body of a dead person. Or let alone try to force you to accept that there's no god because there's no scientific evidence for him?

My point is just that what they are doing is very wrong, and you sometimes sound a bit like you don't even agree with that. What to do about it is another discussion.

Yes, a functioning secular democracy is probably needed for this to become reality for most people in those countries. Some women in Saudi Arabia and Iran are constantly testing the limits even today, which is brave but dangerous.

But some people are even defending other people's "rights" to oppress women in muslim communities in western countries, which to me is just crazy.

I would suggest putting it in a different way if you were to tell them what you think. It's about making people understand that they are mistaken, pissing them off usually doesn't help

I have an interest in religion because of the negative effects it too often has on people and societies, I have never been religious myself. I think I was about 13 when I put God in the same category as Santa, where he has remained

Now that's a different story, as long as they are here in our countries, they need to obey our laws and respect our way of life. It's unthinkable to defend such oppression around here. But trying to enforce this onto Muslim countries? Well, that's different matter and question warranting a philosophical debate whether doing something forcefully with good intention classify as a good deed. In my opinion, it's doesn't.

I've made that as exagerated as I could to make the point how Muslims react to what they perceive as an attack on their religion. They take it much too seriously.

That is another root of the problem. You probably were fortunate enough not to grow up in a overly religious family who would force it onto you. I have a friend who didn't have such luck and he's quite hard to discuss with on this matter - he tries to force his (the only right) view onto others. This is the same for the Islamic world. The sad truth is that religion (and mostly Christianity) killed more people than Hitler (since the Godwin's law was already invoked ) and Stalin combined (inquisition, crusades, etc.)

They have been taught to react in a very aggressive way to criticism to silence the critics. The people who made the religion obviously knew that the claims they were making would not stand up to scrutiny. It's why blasphemy laws still exist.

And another thing on top of that: Because of how religious belief works psychologically, what you perceive as an "attack" on your faith also feels like an attack on you personally. But Christians are (luckily for us) not taught to react with death threats or violence.

Give your friend this link, with my compliments:
http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/your-delusion.htm

Only the radical believers do that. Common folk is pretty much OK with you. Hell, even the hospitality there is much bigger than in Western countries.

Haha, what the hell is going on here?

Also, who uses Facebook? There are better ways to use your time, like making new posts on A.cc.

I think only extremists do that. Here in Malaysia, I think we are pretty much OK.

I was curious, so I read this link.

The problem with it is that the entire argument at the end is based on the notion that the Christian god is a genie who grants wishes. I'm not sure that's actually what they believe in...

Cue the religion debate again.

That's exactly the kind of thing that someone religious would have said to themselves to avoid dealing with the actual issue. You must be a psychologist or something.

Simply being ignorant and atheist is not remarkable.

You don't even say anything about these people or their religion in your "arguments", you don't seem to even have a point you're making other than that you are atheist, ignorant, and anyone who isn't is mentally ill.

What is the "actual issue" that you have?

I'll tell you something, Derezo: your butthurt is showing. Which means that reading this thread is probably giving you heaps of cognitive dissonance. Go act on it. Read the website I linked to. Search for "religion", "atheist", "deconversion" or something of that sort on Youtube. There's a lot to be found.

I think the trick is to enjoy life, regardless of anything else, accept that death is inevitable but wow, what an amazing ride we get; up to 100+ years, out of billions, and at a billion to one chance.

We need to drop religion, it's bollocks. I want to help good people and animals and I don't believe in anything that could even slightly related to anything spiritual, and I certainly don't believe fictional books I read! I try to be nice to good people and animals, because it feels good. I don't need to be rewarded for being kind with eternity or virgins when I die, nor do I need to tell anyone else that the lifestyle choices they make in life will affect them after they die....

...because I firmly believe that when you're dead, you're dead, but that shouldn't be a depressing thought!!! The atoms that you had such beautiful and elegant control over for your conscious years simply become part of the universe again, and who knows, maybe one day another consciousness will animate them....

Why does anyone need anything more than this life, and why do they need to absolve every unanswerable question or mistake or unfortunate act or seemingly miraculous event to a deity?

As an atheist, I think I'm the lucky one. I'm the one who enjoys this life, the ONLY life, for what it is. You lot waiting for eternity in the clouds are wasting your precious time, the only REAL time you have.

I hate religion, rant over.

Not at all.

Just because I'm an atheist doesn't mean I need to be "deconverted" into your religion.

I agree with your rant I don't hate religion anymore, though. I did for the longest time when I was a teenager. What a waste of time and energy that was.

Okay, I get it now. You are one of those liberals who "defend people's right to believe what they want". You have posted several things in this thread that are way off base, and several of them directly insulting. So fuck off.

Xians make enough demands to go around, so atheists don't need to add their two cents.

Well, at least you get it.

You're just trolling anyway, and I know I shouldn't feed, but it was too tempting.

The only butt-hurt and frustrated individual in this thread is you torhu. You think your anger and holier than thou attitude will change anything? Good luck.

The only thing I get from Derezo's posts is calmness. Such calm in fact that I'm a bit envious of it. It's like he knows something we don't.

Dizzy was spot on though. Enjoy life, you never know when someone or something will break you open to suck on the sweet, sweet treasure inside...

I don't know anything.

I'm writing a book about it, though.

Derezo seems to be trolling, feel free to continue the discussion if anybody wants to.

I think that if you want to tell men how to treat their women then you should have to provide for and take care of those women. What people these days fail to comprehend is that humans struggle to survive on their own. We need to cooperate in order to survive, and "gender roles" was one way of allowing us to cooperate in a way that was mutually beneficial.

Living relatively luxurious lives in the West we begin to believe in a utopia where food magically appears in supermarkets, gasoline flows out of the ground as if it were water, and ideas magically journey around the globe. You disconnect from the reality that people have to work hard every day to make all of that possible. You just don't see it happening.

To say that all men and women do an equal share of work is laughable. To say that anybody is entitled to the fruits of another man or woman's labor is also laughable. It used to be that we'd come to an agreement. These days Feminism has largely destroyed that idea and corrupt governments forcibly distribute resources to make it transparent to the population.

Frankly I think the present state of women in the West is worse than it is in much of the East. Western women rank their happiness lower than their mothers and grandmothers did. Who is to say that we're actually doing any better than the East?

It's very easy to take the high ground and preach about freedom and fair treatment, but it isn't actually worth fuck all if you don't explain how to achieve that without infringing on the rights and freedoms of others.