Before you comment, please read the whole post.

So yeah, I'm thinking about leaving my current course (is that the correct term? I have no idea) at my university. I'm almost finished with it, just a couple more months (if I don't go insane first) and it'd be over, but:

• almost everyone on my year is constantly driving me insane with their problems/insults/ridiculous expectations (it didn't use to be so, and granted, while perhaps I made some/many mistakes, it's not like everything is my fault and no, I don't really care anymore),

• I don't really get anything from those studies, just a paper that "perhaps" will increase my chances of getting a job,

• it was really cool at first, but the atmosphere got more and more toxic and I can't stand it anymore, so now I'm just barely hanging on,

• I fear I'm going bat shit crazy because of it all,

• I don't really want to lose 2,5 years of study, but I prefer that than "accidentally" shoving a sharp metal object into somebody's eye,

• I want to study something IT-related anyway (probably networking + programming),

• I need about a year to just get a job, leave my country, go live somewhere else, away from everyone I know (not that everyone I know is a douche, but I need some breathing space), and away from home (I can't afford to live on my own atm, since I don't have a job), and only then return (or not) and start studying what I need to get a good job,

• there are about 6-7 people (including me) on my year, so I can't just "ignore them", and they're driving me mad,

• the teachers (is that what they're called in English, considering I'm talking about a university?) seem to hate us more and more (it wasn't always so, and some of them are actually quite cool, but like I said, the atmosphere is becoming more toxic, at least IMHO, and I just can't stand it anymore).

So yeah, what are your thoughts on this? I've layed out the pros and cons for you. My question is: is it worth losing a lot of sleep, health, mental health, sanity, self-respect, self-esteem and other stuff in return for a paper that really doesn't give me all that much (if anything at all)? I do want to study, but my choice was very poor and I don't even care about those studies. I have no idea what was I thinking at the time.

So transfer somewhere else. Have you tried to get a job in the IT industry before? If you can get a job without a degree then ok, but a lot of places will quickly shoo you away without one, regardless of what you know.

Can you take the remaining courses online? Can you convince your teachers (professors probably at that level) to give you assignments and due dates and let you do the work on your own? can you get an internship and go to school part time? Can you smoke some 420 or other recreationals and relax?

It's not a full degree, it's more of a half-way thing. Plus, I have no objection to working in a non-IT job for now, until I finish those IT studies. It's not like those are the only jobs available.

I can't take online courses, for the single reason that there are no online courses available. We have only one professor, and she pretty much hates us all (she implied that on more than one ocassion). I can't get an internship, and I don't smoke. It's the people that make me insane, and we all know that short of butchering them nothing would really help.

Before reading what you posted- Don't even think about it!
Even though I'm thinking about the same, I'm sure I have to finish it.

@append:

After actually reading your first post. Man, to be honest it looks like the problem is inside of you, your view of what's around has somehow changed. It's unlikely, for all your surrounds to go mad. I know the grass was more green once, and the sky was more blue.. But it's all bullshit. Calm down, that helps

Quit and do whatever you want to do.

Its not that unlikely. A single poisonous person can turn an environment toxic in no time.

Yeah, but I was thinking about leaving for about half a year now. Maybe it is me, I don't know, but things have changed and I just feel like I can't take it anymore. If I liked my uni or was even interested in it, sure, but I don't (those IT studies I'm considering are on another uni, one that isn't so fucked up, and it's not only my opinion). So, is it really worth it?

If you're not already doing it, go take walks every day. It'd be nice if there were a park nearby. It may sound dull, but getting outside to just walk and think has been very therapeutic for me and other people I know. I used to just walk to the top of the parking structure at my University and walk around up there at night to help clear my head. It usually always made me feel better. The pressures were still there, but at least I could go to sleep and be ready to conquer the next day.

Make sure that what you desire to do with your degree is really something you want to do. If not, do what Matthew suggested.

I second this.

That degree wouldn't allow me to work at any job I would want, if any at all (I took it mostly because I always liked ancient civilizations, Latin and stuff like that, I guess I wasn't really thinking). I still have to finish something IT-related to work where I want, and I want to work with computers.

And walks in the park just won't help, because it's the people (which I can't avoid) that drive me insane, not the uni itself (tough it certainly contributes, just not as much as they do), and I just can't ignore them, since my whole year consists of about 6-7 people, from which maybe one or two actually tolerate me (even if barely so).

That and listen to Manowar, everyday, all day. Feel the power and just be awesome.

If she despises you so much, it would be to her advantage to let you do independent study (coursework outside class). Otherwise quit.

The problem is that my course doesn't have independent study. It's just not an option.

It sounds like you've already made up your mind. Just get out of there, doesn't sound like it's useful for anything anyways.

Yeah, the only thing keeping me from quitting here and now is whether or not I'll find a job without a diploma. I'm pretty good at making websites, games, stuff like that, so a good portfolio should do the trick, right? It doesn't have to be a huge mega-corporation, I can be self-employed for all I care. These studies don't open opportunities, but a degree might open a door or two (still nothing I'd want to do, but at least that's something), simply because it's there, doesn't even matter what degree it is.

I just want to consider all the options and hear what everyone has to say about this before I decide.

A couple more months? Tough it out, you big girl's blouse.
Seems like the sort of thing you might regret down the road.

If it gave me anything, I might. I want to do something completely different tough and I don't want anything to do with those people. Right now I barely ever sleep, I work hard, I am insulted etc., and I don't get anything out of it.

That last post makes it seem like you feel there's no real point to continuing, but you also feel that you're in a "too close to the trees to see the forest" situation and you want to make sure that's not the case.

At the very least, finish up the term, take a break to allow the folk you don't like to cycle out, or away, and restart.

Perhaps your university has someone that you can talk to about all of this (what's best for you; what can be done about problematic professors and/or students)?

Perhaps you should consider a college diploma instead? The thing is that a college diploma is all you should really need to work in the computer industry (it's all I currently have). You may already have a lot of the skills they'll teach you so it should be easy to do too (and if you've survived a few years in university then nothing the college throws at you should be overly difficult). Once you've attained a college diploma, you can begin working in a field that interests you while saving up for further studying, like at a university. Or just decide that university is completely unnecessary for you and go on with your life.

In high school, we were recommended to first go to college and then go to university. The main reasons:

• College is usually less expensive, so if you drop out or fail out or whatever you'll be in less trouble.

• College is easier for most people; there's less bullshit writing and more applying what interests you. Instead of writing a 20 page paper, you write code. This means you're less likely to go bat shit crazy and drop out.

• College usually takes less time. This helps to also save money and increase your chances of success.

• Employers often prefer college graduates over university graduates. They're generally not as cocky and usually more experienced at actually doing what they're getting paid to do. I've heard some pretty ridiculous stories regarding university graduates being incapable of applying the most basic computer-related concepts. Employers don't actually care about the piece of paper you were given. They only care about what you can do for them (this isn't always true of course, but at least of the successful ones).

Once you have a college diploma then you can begin working and saving up for further studies if you decide you want to continue. Having both a college diploma and a university degree (in your area of interest, no less) is the ultimate.

I would personally like to get a university degree, but I'm not really the research nor paper writing type...

The financial value of having these attributes is far greater than a degree.^[1] I would not make the trade.

Sorry, I was thinking about college when talking about IT, my bad.

I'm not even certain if getting/not getting any diploma would help/hinder finding a job. Like I said, I'm considering everything before I make a decision.

Get a degree. It doesn't matter in what--pick something you enjoy. That is all that matters unless you want to clean dishes the rest of your life. And if you think it sucks now, imagine what it'll be like when you have no chance of a future.

I mean seriously. A college degree, on time, is four years long. That's it. You endured highschool, why can't you put up with college?

As for the environment: find ways to adapt. Either change your expectations for how people should act, or change who you associate with. If you can't do the second, tough it up for 2.5 years. You don't have it worse then anyone else. It's not that bad. At least you don't have to worry about being shot, raped, or stabbed every day, or HIV outbreaks, or poverty, or ...

Everything helps, even if it's just a little bit. Hang in there, try to motivate yourself to finish what you started, you can do it

first of all i was to say ignore Matthew and the others that are telling you to quit.

I went through something just like this.
basic the people in the dorm and the work load pluss the lack of funds and presure of no having the option to retake class because i was not a U.S. sit. pluss some other crap

I felt like killing the dorm people in the night, like something out of a horror movie.

It felt like everyone was targeting me because i was almost finshed.

Baisicly i just hung in and kept a low profile.

Wait, what? I just said I do want to start studying IT in college. I'm considering quitting my current course at the university (which is not IT-related).

Wow that's harsh. So I have no chance of a future? I'll try not to get upset here...

If your adult career (including college) starts at 18 and you retire at 60 this gives you 42 years to screw with. 4 years, after rounding, is 10%. However college is typically 5 years ^[1] so the real number is 12%.

People have varying amounts of ambition. For me, spending 12% of my career life on something of little to no perceived value is unacceptable. I would much rather spend that 12% studying something useful. This could mean anything from being a janitor in a building full of people I want to emulate to studying the startup of companies I want to emulate to working alongside people I want to emulate or even just watching companies start and reading them in newspapers and on their blogs. All of these things provide incredibly more value than a college could hope to do -- what's more they generally wont have a cost over 1% of your adult career.

This may actually be more common on college campuses than you realize.

I think there's a cultural distinction being missed here. In the US, "college" and "university" are generally interchangeable. (The only difference is that a university has more than one campus.) I believe that in other countries, the concept of "college" is what we would term "community college" in the US.

Edit:

Good job indirectly citing Wikipedia, which does not actually have that bit of information anymore.

Yeah, I don't really know the difference. I just went with what bam described. I don't really know what it's called in English. You might call it a polytechnic school, an institute of technology, or anything like that. In any case, they teach practical application (like coding) more than theory and stuff like that.

Few more months to go? You gotta be kidding to give up now. I was thinking about the same not long time ago, but only as one of many options. I quit a part-time job to have more time (really stupid decision to accept 2/5 contract, but at least it gave me experience - be it working or that work and school doesn't go well together). So if I were you, I'd swallow my pride, got a degree and never looked back.

Then the question is why have you began studying that? And more, why on Earth for 2.5 years (I presume)? Not surprised your co-students are jerks. Many people from these fields are strange and if you are interested in IT it just makes them stranger and vice versa. But still, I'm not sure if you've endured that long it is wise to quit prematurely.

Probably not, but it is a lot healthier than not quitting.

<roleplaying_geek_mode>
I say we leave the decision to a d20.

EDIT: Sorry, I think all that I could say it has been already. You might regret not putting up for some extra months, but if it's something really unhealthy for you, you might just have to leave it.

I didn't even know it was different in the USA. Wikipedia gives a general sense of my understanding of the word. Even then, I learned a bunch from reading the section on Canada (and the USA's section as well). In general, I consider a university to be a post-secondary school where you write papers and do research; whereas a college is a post-secondary school where you learn practical knowledge and apply it.

Then what I'm talking about is either the same (I really don't know) or more similar to college, than to a university.

Consider the following two (worst case?) situations:
-You have left university, but now it seems those couple of months and the ensuing diploma would have given you some sort advantage/chance you can never hope to get again.
-You stayed in university, got your life drained, and apparently missed out some essential rest/boundless ocean of possibilities.

Which one seems worse?

My humble experience with people you can't live with is: don't try to live with them. Confront them, call their bluffs. Confidently point out how they 'poison' you. In most cases the situation changes for the better.
And yes, you can do it. Just like you don't really have to stab somebody in the eye etc. You know you are stronger than that. You maybe got lured into believing keeping the order was best, but... wait am I just projecting my life onto yours

The majority of people who don't get college when college is easy, never go back. There's no dispute for that. I'm not bashing you, or anyone else who has made something of them self. But college is the most direct and easiest way to secure your future.

Almost every single person I've worked with at my job (as opposed to career) has their own sad story of why they never got a degree and ended up here. Moreover, it only gets harder and harder to get into college. You will have more and more responsibilities, and less and less energy as you age.

Go to college now, or go to college while managing kids, a wife, and a 40-hour work week, a car payment, a mortgage, utilities, health insurance, and various other random bills.

This. I'm doing exactly that and guess how long its going to take me to navigate that 4 years of school? Always choose the path that leaves you the MOST options. Working 40+ hours a week and going to class every day will wear your soul down 100X faster then dealing with some idiots for another six months. Take it from a guy who knows. Drink a beer, suck it up and do what ya gotta do.

The point is, that even if I did that, I would still have to start over in college (which I'm going to do anyway) to be able to work in a job that interests me. It's not like I'm considering dropping out and never going to college/uni ever again.

Quit looking to others for validation.

Yes, please, look to the w3c for validation. I hear they're almost done with the XLIFE specification.

Can you defer your course for 6 months or a year and come back to it? Or does it 100% need to be done now? How much money have you invested in this endeavour? Can you justify losing that money and have nothing to show for it?

Follow Dorys advice.

We have a different education system. I haven't paid a single dime for it, since this one in particular is free (I'm not sure how to explain it, so I won't even try look it up somewhere if you're interested in more details). And no, I can't come back to it later.

Personally I would leave then, the only reason I am still studying at uni is that I have spent years and years getting here, and spent a moderate sum of money.

I assume you are young, get a shitty job and dedicate time to a hobby that you love, then try and work out how to make money from it in future.

So much to read
No.

That's in case, you really have something to do outside. If you wanna leave to be doing something, that's probably an idea. Otherwise- it's not.

P.S.
Portfolio is good, but a portfolio with a diploma is even better..

However if you get a degree, then at least you have something in your pocket. It's like a driver's licence on your head. Think it through if you won't regret that those 2.5 years have gone to waste if you quit.

Moreover, try discussing this with some of your close friends or family.

CursedTyrant,

Could you please give us an example of how the other people are driving you mad?

I'm not telling you to stay with a degree you'll be unhappy with. I'm not saying where to get a degree either. I'm saying get a degree. Whether you're in for 4 years or 10 years, get a degree first.

This is the most important part. It rules out everything else. Everything else is just opinion and preference.

Nobody here can tell you what degree to take or what to do. You're the only one with the information to make that decision. Nobody can make it for you. Moreover, college isn't about validation. It doesn't matter if anyone else believes in you or tells you that you're great. You have to make the best decision for you regardless of what people around you around going to think and say.

I switched from Computer Science after a year to Mechanical Engineering. This was in my favor. But now, with three semesters left, I'm wondering if I'm more of a business man. I'm going to finish my degree and consider a Masters in Business Administration. Already having a Major means I can get a Masters degree in business (a completely separate field) in 13-months. Either way, I'm guaranteed a job making more than $40,000 a year. I make around $10,000 a year at my job. And if I really apply myself, it's going to be WAY more than $40,000 a year.

My friend, however, switched from Computer Science to IT because "it was too hard." He always loved to play around with photography and video though. Then, late in the game, he realized he wanted to do photography and IT was just sucking his blood. Well, he stayed the last three semesters, got his degree, and now he's miserable at his first job. But it supports him, and he's buying up video equipment left and right and making a name for himself. He and a friend are going to be doing a commercial for a new local bar/club. If he keeps pushing himself, he will no longer be stuck at his miserable job. He will make something of himself.

So what can be learned from those two case studies? First, that either getting a degree you hate, or setting yourself back and getting another, are both viable options. The first one allows you to work with a decent pay to provide funds for his new potential career. His pay rate doubled and work load got much easier. All for having that "useless piece of paper." Second, setting yourself back isn't the end of the world, and you may realize later than your second "miserable degree" can be used toward a more powerful one.

The most important thing to realize from these case studies is that no matter what happens, if you have a degree, you're better off. After that, to succeed, you're going to have to find your own path. No one else is going to know all of the options present to your success. You have to be proactive in finding your own solutions for your life.

If I have any guess, it's completely internal to him and he's thinking that the world should change instead of adapting himself to exploit the world.

So yeah, just as I expected, some people screwed me over and I'll most probably have no other choice than to quit now.

I don't get what some people screwing you over has to do with your studies. Is it bothering you so much that you can't concentrate when you study?

That too, but what I meant is that I trusted someone to do something that I needed (which was stupid, but I wasn't the only one), and I won't get it, simply because. And without that particular thing I wouldn't be able to pass anyway. I guess there's a lesson here for everyone: don't trust people with vital stuff, they'll just make your life miserable.

As a general rule of thumb, in group projects, if you want it done right, you have to do the entire thing yourself.

That's what your vague situation sounds like. I remember staying up all night working with my "team" on a group assignment. One guy watched anime the entire time, the other guy was playing Starcraft, and I coded. Then, once I finished it at about 7 a.m. I collapsed and fell asleep. They didn't bother trying to wake me up to go to class (at 8 a.m.). (Yes, it was my own fault for waiting until the night before it was due to get it finished anyways. )

That's true for life.

Oh and listen to Manowar, all day, everyday.

I just don't get it. How is failing anything involving another person, including say, a group project, result in you quitting college?

6 + 3 = Apple Pie

your just learning this? I learned this many years ago when i was about 5 or 6.

humans will always fail you. i only trust in the almight

Yes, because he/she/it always comes through

@Thomas Fjellstrom

Yes and with out fail.

I prayed for world peace for several years when I was a naive kiddie. And prayed for household peace, and I distinctly remember Dad beating Mom to a bloody pulp while I realized that praying to the refrigerator (the direction I happened to be facing) didn't help a bit.

That's a lesson in life that you'll get many times. The first time you get it, it's painful, but you shouldn't quit because of this. Don't let these things lower your self esteem.

Having a degree is worth many times more the punishment of an asshole.

And there it is...

To contrast that, I have always been dropped into the fire. But I've been broken over, and over again. But I've never been destroyed. I've always managed to barely make it through when I surely, statistically, and by all reasoning ability, should have died.

Suffering molds us. It gives us perspective and a desire to change the world. There's nothing in the Bible (assuming you're praying to that God) that says there won't be suffering. In fact, it says there will be more.

My personal thoughts (and feel free to completely ignore them) is that the reason God allows horrible things to happen (like child molesters) is that it motivates us to act. We see something wrong in the world, and we, as a society, react to it in order to improve the situation and ourselves. We're consistently growing in maturity as we see the results of our self-inflicted suffering. We have police, because we're better off with them--it's the best solution we have so far. We have tasers, because they were supposed to make police safer and reduce the situations where they had to use deadly force. Well, it backfired, but it's just one attempt at bettering the world as a whole. These are our ever evolving solutions to the problems we see.

Imagine a crazy idea that heaven is just Earth in the distant future, and we're all helping work toward it. And God won't come to Earth until his children have become mature enough to associate with him. Now, I don't necessarily believe that, but it's an interesting concept nonetheless.

QFT.
Number of people in group | Number of freeloaders
1|0
2|1
3|2
4|3
5|4
etc. True for every group project I've ever been in.
(The only decent group projects are those with individual grading, where you're only graded on your contributions and nothing else - the group may fail as a whole, but you can still pass (and vice versa))

Katko: Cognitive dissonance much?

Humanity is a group. So which one of us is doing all the work?

Obama.

That's a really intriguing concept! I just read the first paragraph of the Wikipedia entry. I'm definitely going to read some more. The "Franklin Effect" is pretty interesting.

I have a lot of philosophical ideas I've played around with. That one was basically a thought exercise on relating the common question of "why does God allow suffering?" to the common beliefs of Christianity. To be clear though, I'm making no argument for or against the validity of Christianity. But it makes sense (to me, at least) that there are many uses for pain and suffering as a tool for maturing children.

Another one of my oddball thoughts is: If God uses all bad things for good, why would the Devil even need to exist? The only use I can think of would be to blame our failures-of-humanity on something other than ourselves--a man-made scapegoat. I think of it more as a fight between our physical urges ("Sins of the flesh") and our spiritual/mental needs (Fairness, Acceptance, Happiness, ...). Although, immediately I realize it's a bit more complex than that. All mental urges aren't "good," and all physical ones, "bad." Hmm...

When did we get onto a discussion of religion?

Also, Chris Katko, my friend just said that you look like Frodo.

int chance=human_randomization(); // Range from 0...100
if (chance > 95) {
  keep_on_topic();
}
else if (chance > 90) {
  derail_with_something_related();
}
else {
  talk_about_religion();
}

Everything can be turned into a religion discussion.

He's so close and he just won't let himself get there...

int chance=human_randomization(); // Range from 0...100
if (chance > 95) {
  keep_on_topic();
}
else if (chance > 90) {
  derail_with_something_related();
}
else {
  talk_about_religion();
}

If the universe were open source, we could fix that.

But maybe only 1 person would work on it.

Does Obama know how to write code?

I'd say no, since he can't stick to his promises about the Patriot Act, net neutrality, open government, yadda yadda yadda. It's the equivalent of defining variables and functions but never declaring them.

[EDIT] (can't resist)

{"name":"75MDw.gif","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/a\/8\/a8192db11374239490a517c5012a67cb.gif","w":508,"h":512,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/a\/8\/a8192db11374239490a517c5012a67cb"}

Hey Dennis, finally some metal that I can listen to^[1] Must get it, though metal isn't usually my cup of tea.

Hell yeah, Manowar sounds really awesome, perfect for my playlist along with Rhapsody!

Maybe Powerglove OICW?

Nope, Manowar was just fine. The rest isn't really that great. I'm quite picky, especially in the field of metal since I don't normally listen to it.

@Arthur Kalliokoski

Humans all ways want someone to fix things for then with out them even putting in any effort themselfs.

Help will come to those whom help them selfs.

this is the same thing

Number of people in group | Number of freeloaders
1|0
2|1
3|2
4|2 1/2

5|3 1/4

How do you get partial people? Or are some people just putting in partial effort?

What if several of those workers ended up in a group together?

Do you know what this is the same as? No God.

I sometimes have regrets about not grabbing the shotgun a few times.

Not really.

NVM, don't want to take part into anything religion-related.

Pretty awesome that he misquoted then, isn't it? But then you knew that because it came up in the other thread and now you're just trolling.

/glares at the moose for starting this crap again

It wasn't barely a week after the dust settled after the last thread and yet here we go again

Would you feel better if I just said, "God doesn't exist"?

God doesn't exist.

Feel better?

At the end of the day, do and think what gives you the best outcome for your life. If believing in a God motivates you to become successful, then that's all that matters. However, believing in a bleak, pessimistic worldview, only serves to demotivate you. So it doesn't matter if it's the truth or not, because if you don't view it in a positive light, it's going to sabotage your life. It'll be a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I'm 100% about what gets the results. Everything else is bullshit.

Meanwhile, anyone remember about the GSXR Kart I proposed years ago? The 140 hp, three-wheeled roadster I was going to build? I have two days in Cookeville left, and then I go home to make history.

The saying, "God helps those who help themselves," came to us by way of Benjamin Franklin (1736). Franklin himself was a deist and so he believed that God did not play an active role in men's lives. In his point of view if man was not able to help himself, then man was hopeless.

http://www.blueletterbible.org/faq/sayings.cfm

He wasn't the one who brought it up...

No, but he was the one who made a thing of it. It will always come up by pure virtue of being a part of people's lives, and certain people need to mature and deal with it.

Couldn't that also be a form of cognitive dissonance? "I'm a smart guy" vs "Our project failed/was harder than expected/resulted in something worse than expected" leading to the rationalization that everyone else was a freeloader/idiot/slacker and thus it was their fault.

So you don't believe in God? I'm not exactly sure what your beliefs are.

My beliefs aren't qualifiable with labels, generalizations, or a few concise sentences.

I believe in the work that God has done in my life, and strife he has brought me through. I also realize all of the hardship he has brought my way has uniquely molded me into something powerful. I am going places in life, and I'm not going to stop for anyone. I adapt (my actions and my ideologies) to become whatever is necessary of me to accomplish my goals. Everything else is bullshit--a waste of time and energy.

Here's a summery of the only things that I've found valid in life: Enjoy every second and every person in your life--you don't get a refund at the end for getting it wrong. Challenge yourself and take risks. Work hard, and with excellence at everything. Forgiveness really is the best policy, it keeps your baggage light, and allows friendships to flourish. Be genuinely interested in everyone around you. That's about it.

[added two. 5 bonus "Who's Line?" points for the viewers at home who spot them!]

Oooh, one more great one:

"Believe in people. They'll always surprise you." --Randy Pausch

I have the commit logs to prove it.

I'm not pointing a finger, just making an observation. I've had the same experience - but so has everyone else... It just does not add up

The ones who slacked off aren't likely to go shouting it around.

I've had the opposite experience most of the time. Rarely have I had any slackers on my teams and if I had they often paid the price for it.

How do you know this? People aren't rational. If someone feels stupid because of mistakes they make, they quite often (sub-consciously or not) build up versions where they are the victim (at least this is my experience).

I've had mostly good experiences with group projects as well, but in the cases where it did not work, everyone had the same idea that the rest of the group was slacking off.

I found that the most effective method for group projects was to give everybody in the group the option to do nothing at all.

I never cared if somebody did no work as long as he told me on day one that he wasn't going to do anything. I could get stuff done faster by myself anyway.

I didn't start it. I just responded to something idiotic someone else said. You notice I let it die there. And in fact the religion part died for a while till someone else brought it back

No kidding; me too!

So why didn't you quote piccolo? I take it you misquoted.

Yeah, I'm sure you take things many ways that suit you. Heading out for the night; later.

Hey, at least they're not like the flame wars of ~2006. Everybody is sick of those.

That's an interesting concept. I've never tried that. Assuming it was clear from the start that they were doing nothing, so you wouldn't rely on them.

On my next project, I'll be stepping up as a leader and noting exactly how much effort I'm going to put in, and for everyone to define how much they think they're going to put in. It's a lot easier and clear cut if everyone defines beforehand, exactly how much effort they will do, and signs their name below it. For many people, their name is one of the most important things about them. It represents a summation of all of the actions, and their character. A man's name is the most valuable thing to him. So signing a piece of a paper that says "I commit to doing this" is very effective. (from the book, "Predictably Irrational")

I find that the bigger the group the more the person that is doing all the work complains so there is always someone doing a little because they feel sorry for the guy doing all the work. those people normaly quote "well, i did my share"

most of the time there is more work in bigger groups

Disclaimer: I haven't read through all the posts.

Step 1: See a doctor. He or she will have something valuable to say, it's all that schooling they get.

Step 2: Take a break. Will you lose your credit for courses completed if you withdraw now, or could you pick up where you left off later on? (if you feel like it)

Step 3: After doctor + break, things will become clearer.

I don't know how to say this, but this is the rule that works for me: if one person is being a jerk or is out to get you, he's probably a jerk who's out to get you. But if everyone is being a jerk, the problem might be with you. You could be behaving in a way that makes people react badly, or misinterpreting what they're saying.

Extreme stress can cause both of those things.

Lack a sense of humor much? You did notice the winkies did you not?