Let's make a song
Johan Halmén

I guess this is an old idea, but anyway, here we go. There are many musically talented people here. I know it's not Monday, but here's a proposal. We should make a song and record it. It could be a song about Speedhack, Tins, Christmashack or just a.cc. We could make a list of available instrumentalists, do the arrangement for the song, then everyone would record his track, making a mono or stereo wav file. These would be mixed down to... um... a masterpiece.

Each track would be maybe 20-30 MB, not too big to be sent to the master mixer. Everyone participating would need a somewhat decent microphone and a headset. And Audacity. When one records one's track, one could use an mp3 file with the rhythm & bass stuff, to get the timing and tuning right. But each new track would of course be independent of the mp3 help file. Midi could be a good help file format, too.

What we need, besides the musicians, is someone or some team to write lyrics, choose the style, compose the music and do the basic arrangement of the song. And someone to mix everything. If you're interested, respond with a list of how you would like to participate. My list:

  • lyrics, composing

  • piano

  • tenor sax, clarinet

  • acoustic or electric guitar

  • ukulele

  • singing

jhuuskon

I can mix it and bring my arsenal of synthesizers and plugins to bear. That means anyone who can send as midi should do so. :P

I won't be using Audacity though. I've paid for better gear than that. ;)

Johan Halmén

Sure. Any software that can handle some common lossless audio file format will do. Midi would sure be very convenient, but "real" instruments would sound more "real world". We spend too little time logged into the real world anyhow, so at least the final product could be midi free. But it doesn't have to.

Paul whoknows

I play guitars.
All I need is a .WAV or a .MID file, then I can record my guitar playing over the track, just tell me how many measures and which ones are mine. BTW who is going to compose the song?

Johan Halmén

Who wants to compose it? Anyone can throw his ideas here, whether they are melodic or lyric. We might find some gold nuggets among them. I have a little spare time tomorrow and I might do something that could show the style of music i had in mind, though it could be anything else, too.

Mark Oates

Here's a contribution from me, a bass line in the key of E (good for guitar guys):
http://www.allegro.cc/files/attachment/596418

and a simple ostinuto that could be used or modified or whatever:
http://www.allegro.cc/files/attachment/596419

kazzmir

1-4-5-1!

Johan Halmén

Mark, the notes are probably a third too high. Your first note is G#, not E etc. Fourth bar has IV and fifth bar has IV. That's a harmonic syncopation. In some music styles it's forbidden. We could use it, it puts some challenge in it.

[edit]
Oh, my guess is the fourth bar should have been iii, not IV. That's BachPachelbel! We could use that!

Mark Oates
Quote:

Your first note is G#, not E etc.

WOOPS! :o :-[
just transpose everything up diatonically by a 6th.

Quote:

Fourth bar has IV and fifth bar has IV. That's a harmonic syncopation. In some music styles it's forbidden. We could use it, it puts some challenge in it.

mwahahaha 8-)

Johan Halmén

[url http://www.allegro.cc/files/attachment/596442
the_song.MID]I put Mark's ostinato in the intro.[/url] There's no melody yet, nor any lyrics. Anyone?

Mark Oates
Quote:

ostinato

fuck, I'm full of problems today. ::)

Bob Keane

I could listen ot it. I can add guitar, bass, a recorder, and possibly harmonica. Not sure when though.

Johan Halmén

What kind of harmonica? A blues harp? That might come in handy. That midi sample I made might not have the right style and feeling for a blues harp, but anything is adaptable.

piccolo

what about the people thats cant read notes.

Johan Halmén

I ask them what they want to do. If they want to play some part, they may do that. Then they ask what they should play. I give them notes and a sample midi file. Or guitar tabs or chords. If they still can't get anything out of it, then I'm lost and don't have the slightest idea of how they learn their music in the first place.

GullRaDriel
piccolo said:

what about the people thats cant read notes.

They don't make songs, that's all. Or they decide to learn how to read notes.

Anyway, it is not THAT complicated because it's not like you need to read them quickly while playing, so take your favorite web search tool, ask for "Solfège" (BTW it's in French even in the English page) and try to decode it yourself.

quick search

jhuuskon

Eww. I thought you were going to make music, not muzak. :-X

GullRaDriel

I don't get it, jhuuskon, but I want to ! Can you explain ?

LennyLen

Muzac == Elevator music. ie Generic easy-listening crap

Johan Halmén

That's muzak mainly because it's midi. And maybe because of the Pachelbel-like chord progression (no offense, Mark). Anyway, throw your ideas here, in any form, some lines of lyrics, some bars of midi or mp3...

Pedro Avelar Gontijo

Good idea! I can play violin, erhu (Chinese violin) and sing. I'm also willing to contribute to the lyrics and composition.

Here's my contribution: I added some funkiness to the rhythm section which might not go too well with the general mood of the intro, but I hope it's okay, it sure needs to be catchy.

http://www.allegro.cc/files/attachment/596450
And also, I added a melodic line with the violin and a glockenspiel (anyone willing to play that?). I think the vocals coming in right after that would be just ok.

I just say that we could be a little bit more harmonically daring. I'll try to add some harmony in my next contribution, but whoever comes in until that, please give it a try! I think this is going to turn out really weird from the mix of everyone's style, and I love that. I don't think I'm the only one who likes daring/unexpected music :)

Johan Halmén

Noteworthy Composer rocks!

Matthew Leverton

I could provide background vocals and clapping. The provided MIDI makes me think of the following lyrics:

"Allegro! .... Allegro! .... Allegro! .... Allegro! .... Allegro! .... "

over and over again. Very catchy, I know.

I think elevator music is awesome. :o

Pedro Avelar Gontijo

Ask Ben :D
[edit - to Johan's remark]

GullRaDriel

I remember having a video chat with pedro and his instruments. A little bit laggy due to the distance, but enough good to get the power ;-)

Matthew Leverton

I've got some awesome lyrics ready to go. Now I need to buy a microphone! You won't be disappointed.

Paul whoknows

This song sounds very happy-happy and it's very simple. Can we start from scratch again?

Matthew Leverton

We'll need more tracks anyway if we want to publish a full CD, so make a second one!

This first song is great for the radio single. :o

piccolo

we can use this it has some words but, some can esaly add costom words to it. its called "i love this tune"

Mark Oates
Quote:

That's muzak mainly because it's midi. And maybe because of the Pachelbel-like chord progression

it's all about context. ;)

Quote:

Supreme Loser

hahaha

Matthew Leverton

Sing with me, It's Monday Now...!

Recorded in my private studio with my Logitech (R) Skype (R) Headset. 8-)

Mark Oates

epic. 8-)

I can see this song receiving many, many, references in the future.

piccolo

not bad at all now try putting words to the other one.

http://www.allegro.cc/forums/post/770804

Paul whoknows

Not exactly what I expected... but anyway, my little contribution.

piccolo

that was a realy good

edit
love the last part too it adds a gimic

Johan Halmén
Matthew said:

You won't be disappointed.

You were right!
Any more lyrics to that? I was thinking of a chorus with "Allegro.cc blablabla... Allegro.cc yadayada... Allegro.cc etc". Btw, how do you exactly pronounce allegro.cc? I would say "Allegro see see". Do we need the "dot" there?

A chorus needs a chorus, right? Three voices would do the allegro thing.
.{"name":"596459","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/f\/4\/f410206d9de542492d1d4b384175188d.png","w":668,"h":143,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/f\/4\/f410206d9de542492d1d4b384175188d"}596459
or
.{"name":"596460","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/3\/4\/3404f37f4bd4dc5a1b908a5186097ebb.png","w":670,"h":141,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/3\/4\/3404f37f4bd4dc5a1b908a5186097ebb"}596460

[edit]

Matthew's mp3 genre info said:

BritPop

8-)

Matthew Leverton
Quote:

not bad at all now try putting words to the other one.

It's pretty slow and empty. I'm not very musical, so filling in the blanks is a bit difficult.

Quote:

Not exactly what I expected... but anyway, my little contribution.

Haha, that's great. But just piling on top of an MP3 isn't going to sound too good. We need to give out our stuff as solo wav files (or whatever).

Quote:

Any more lyrics to that?

Sorry, but I ran out of music! Put together a full length thing with a chorus spot and an instrumental solo for our guitarists et al, and I'm sure the words will write themselves.

Quote:

Allegro see see

That's how I say it.

Johan Halmén

We need Tobias and his awesome trombone, too.

Neil Black

Great song Matt. I'll try to get the team to use it for the end credits. :P

Matthew Leverton
Quote:

We need Tobias and his awesome trombone, too.

:o

Trombones are cool. Do we have any trumpets? Violins?

Quote:

Great song Matt. I'll try to get the team to use it for the end credits.

What team? :-X

Neil Black

The Monday team, of course.

Matthew Leverton

What a coincidence!!! :D

By the way, when we are done with this song, we need to make a music video too. 8-)

Neil Black

Cool, then we can put video of you dancing in the end credits too!

bamccaig

I've written a few songs worth of lyrics in the past... I might be able to contribute to lyrics...

Also, apparently midi is not a Linux friendly format. >:(

(No, I did not read the whole thread yet... I came in late and just found all instances of "lyrics" in the thread :P)

Johan Halmén

Any track that gets recorded should be done without the backgrounds getting into it. The backgrounds may be midi as long as we're recording different tracks like vocals, guitars, any added instruments. But it would be great to have the drums and bass recorded, too. If not, the drum track should probably anyhow be re-programmed by someone with a good sense of drum things.

[edit]
This is what the whole structure could be like:
intro
verse 1
verse 2
chorus
intro-like bridge back to...
verse 3
chorus
solo
chorus X times, fade or outro

GullRaDriel
bamccaig said:

Also, apparently midi is not a Linux friendly format. >:(

It is.

Johan Halmén
bamccaig said:

I've written a few songs worth of lyrics in the past...

It's an interesting process when a song is born. Some lyric writers need the music, some can't write any lyrics to music already done. Some composers need lyrics to compose, some can't compose to lyrics written. Some lyric writers can't write the lyrics to given music if it doesn't have a title ready.

Matthew said:

We'll need more tracks anyway if we want to publish a full CD, so make a second one!

Should bamccaig post his music here with or without titles?

Ron Novy

I got bored too... :-/ Ok... So I guess I'll contribute a little... ;)

I changed some of the midi file and then turned it back into audio with some pro equipment. I've attached the modified midi file, a mixdown of the midi to audio and a third file... Well the third one isn't that great... If I had the other instruments and vocals as separate tracks I could make a better mixdown... But the plain midi version sounds a little more like RPG music now ::).... Just give me tracks and I'll mix and master an allegro hit ;D

[edit] The piano is a little rough but it works...

piccolo

lots of musical talent on allegro. add some more stuff to the slow beat so matt can put vocals to it. i sence he was holding back a bit i want to see what he can realy do.

GullRaDriel

Yeah Matt, don't contain yourself, give us all you have ! ;D

piccolo

I just made this one.

just like the other one i left out the other instraments so every one can add to it.

http://www.allegro.cc/files/attachment/596464

Johan Halmén

Ron, you've transposed the music a minor third down, but Matthew's vocals remained in key of E. A bit weird. But Pedro's violin melody was there. Despite the unmatching keys I got the feeling that the violin suits well the second half of the first verse.

And Matthew, your lousy mic sounds very interesting. It might be quite ok for the final recordings. I guess you had a small timing error there in the first place. A time shift in the tracks. Sometimes I have to manually adjust one track by time shifting, when recording new tracks in Audacity. Anyway these are not the final recordings.

bamccaig
GullRaDriel said:

It is.

I followed one of the unofficial Fedora guides to get the non-free software and midi still won't play (mp3, m4a, etc., does though). IIRC, Gnome Mplayer tries to play it, but I can't hear anything, and Amarok complains about non-free software codecs. Do you happen to know what I'm missing and where to get it?

Johan Halmén said:

It's an interesting process when a song is born. Some lyric writers need the music, some can't write any lyrics to music already done. Some composers need lyrics to compose, some can't compose to lyrics written. Some lyric writers can't write the lyrics to given music if it doesn't have a title ready.

Most of the lyrics I've written were without music, though often I have a beat stuck in my head so they're probably actually built around whatever that it is at the time. :P One song was sort of based on a guitar riff my cousin came up with. I never did get to hear the lyrics with the guitar riff so I don't know how well they fit together though. My point is that I'm sure I could write with music too. It would just give me structure for the timing, etc., as opposed to letting the lyrics decide the timing.

Most of what I've written was rap lyrics, but I did write one "acoustic" song which got a much more positive reaction from friends than the rap lyrics did. That was probably largely do to the fact though that the lyrics were simpler though... ::)

Ideas for the song would probably help because I have a lot on my mind aside from Allegro right now.

Ron Novy
Quote:

Ron, you've transposed the music a minor third down, but Matthew's vocals remained in key of E. A bit weird. But Pedro's violin melody was there.

I didn't transpose it (at least I think I didn't)... The track with the vocals in it was just Matt's mp3 mixed in with my version of the mixed down audio... I think the combination of the two was what sounded off... Argg you're right.. How did that happen. :-/

GullRaDriel
bamccaig said:

Do you happen to know what I'm missing and where to get it?

I dunno for the other players, because I was successful using timidity.

Timidity's info page said:

What is TiMidity++
♪ General Information

TiMidity++ is a software synthesizer. It can play MIDI files by converting them into PCM waveform data; give it a MIDI data along with digital instrument data files, then it synthesizes them in real-time, and plays. It can not only play sounds, but also can save the generated waveforms into hard disks as various audio file formats.

TiMidity++ is a free software, distributed under the terms of GNU general public license.
The History

TiMidity++ is based on TiMidity 0.2i, written by Tuukka Toivonen <tt@cgs.fi>*1, released on 1995. No new version of this original project is developed since then. Development has been continued by Masanao Izumo et al. in the new project named TiMidity++. ++ is to show the difference from original project.
♪ Features

* Plays MIDI files without any external MIDI instruments at all
* Understands SMF, MOD, RCP/R36/G18/G36, MFI
* Converts MIDI files into various audio file formats: .wav, .au, .aiff, .ogg and so on
* Uses Gravis Ultrasound compatible patch files and/or SoundFonts as the voice data
* Displays information about the music that is now playing
* Various user interfaces: ncurses, gtk, Win32-GUI, and others
* Plays remote MIDI files over the network
* Plays MIDI files in archive files
* Displays sound spectrogram for the playing music
* Trace playing

Along with timidity++, how to play midi in firefox

The Linux MIDI How To

For those who are interested in midi programming under Linux, I got that helpfull link.

Ron Novy

OK... I've got the transposition thing figured out... All I need to know is what the original instrument numbers are.. Does anyone know this?

bamccaig

GullRaDriel: Thanks.

Johan Halmén

Ok, here's one full length song (still proposal). It got the following parts:

  • intro

  • verse 1

  • chorus

  • verse 2

  • chorus

  • solo

  • chorus

  • chorus

The solo part is like the verse parts, there's time for two instruments. After that, two choruses without any outro.

Matthew's lyrics fit into verse 1. The last chorus could be filled with instruments like how that guitar of Paul's sounds above Matthew's singing in the second half.

In the chorus you hear trumpets play what the chorus should sing: "Allegro cee cee... Allegro cee cee..." and a trombone marking something that the soloist could sing between the chorus phrases.

Whatever anyone added may be added to this, too, this just shows something that could be the total structure and length of the song.

[edit]
:P:P:P

What sounds fairly good on one computer sounds terrible on another. Got to adjust something here.

Matthew Leverton

I'm not following the pattern you have up there... could you list out the times that coincide? e.g., Intro [0:00 - 0:05]...

I'm not even sure which is the trombone and trumpet, considering most of the instruments sound like a five year old's imitation of a fart. ;)

Ron Novy

Hang on Matt... I've got the sound under control here... Just a minuet ;)

[edit]

Here it is... Let me know what you think of the mix ;D

Mark Oates
Quote:

I've got the sound under control here... Just a minuet

hey I've got real trombones and trumpets I could record those parts there.

Ron Novy

Do it... I could make a mix without those instruments if you want it...

Mark Oates

What I really want is Matthew's vocals without background music ;)

Matthew Leverton
Quote:

i sence he was holding back a bit i want to see what he can realy do.

Here you go: Piccolo.

Quote:

Here it is... Let me know what you think of the mix ;D

I'll check it out later.

Mark Oates

HAHAHAHAHA !

"it goes forward... a second at a time... " ;D

Ron Novy

Matthew... Its probably a good thing that your microphone sucks. It just adds to your natural voice ::)

[edit]... I laughed.. It was good....

Matthew Leverton
Quote:

Matthew... Its probably a good thing that your microphone sucks. It just adds to your natural voice

I'd give you points for that, but then you followed up with a compliment. :-X

Where are all the vocalists at, anyway?

Ron Novy

Well it was funny... So I had to say something...

piccolo

ill fix the music timing and add stuff plus lower the key your more of an alto singer.

edit:
ok here it is i still left out the other instruments.

http://www.allegro.cc/files/attachment/596473

Paul whoknows
Quote:

Where are all the vocalists at, anyway?

I can give it a try(just for fun). Matt can you post the lyrics you wrote?

piccolo

build a time mechgin
and i was
it gose forward a secon at a time
i told you lot
plz... you got to beleave
its not a trick
there nothing upmay sleave
i know i can not spell
and gramers not my thing
im just the inventer King Piccolo

this what i got from the mp3

edit: you may have to add some words because the tempo is a little diffrent

Paul whoknows

Oh, I was referring about the first song.

piccolo

its monday late in the after noon
just got out of bed with this alsom idea

its been stuck in my head
lest join our hands
do this little dance
and make us a game
ill be the boss
youll do as i say
go write me some code
youll get no pay
thats ..ok
its monday now and were making a game
an rpg
totaly lame

Johan Halmén

Here's the full length song. The times are:

/*
intro    0:00
verse 1    0:05 Pedro's violin 0:23
chorus    0:38
verse 2    0:54
chorus    1:25
solo    1:42, second 1:58
chorus    2:14
chorus    2:30
*/

I just copied Matthew's first verse into the 2nd verse to make the whole structure complete. The solo part has nothing except backgrounds. The last chorus at 2:30 could do with the add on solos. Verse 2 should have new lyrics, if not, it should be left out as well as the following chorus. Even the choruses could have varying text, or a completely different approach to text/melody. My suggestion is that Matthew sing the chorus, too. In the final recording. And my falsetto chorus is no good. The drums i had to use for the mp3 had a really mute ride cymbal, but I didn't spend more time on changing it.

[edit]
Oh yes, Pedro's violin could be inserted in the second verse, too, and in the solo part.

jhuuskon

Oh wow. It doesn't sound like muzak anymore, now it sounds like muzak with a adhan on top. :-X

Mark, can you help these guys out? Sampletanks or anything that could be used to de-elevatorise this stuff?

Johan Halmén

Just replace each software instrument with a real one.

Tobias Dammers
Quote:

We need Tobias and his awesome trombone, too.

Sigged.

Quote:

Trombones are cool. Do we have any trumpets? Violins?

Trombone: yes. Trumpet: yes. Violin: no, but I could arrange someone for say 100 € per track. :-*
The rhythm section needs some serious brushing up (and better samples, especially the various percussion things). The ride cymbal is the last thing I'd worry about. I'd use a different kind of groove in the verse, more r&b, less disco. Some of the fills sound like a ten-year-old who has just found the drum bank on his new casio (remember Ross on 'Friends' with his keyboard? bit like that). freesounds.org has a few useable free drum kits; the 'tic tac shutup' one isn't half bad, though very heavy on the ambience (which makes it useless for dry mixes, but it's probably OK for something like this). The electric piano deserves better: Logic's built-in EVP88 and Steinberg Hypersonic both have very nice patches for this; otherwise, might want to use a (real) guitar instead, and maybe add some hammond.
About the lead vocals: I like the mood (nice trashy nerd thing going on there), though the lack of singing skills maybe shows just a bit too much. Throw in some more lyrics, and you're good.

Quote:

I'm not even sure which is the trombone and trumpet, considering most of the instruments sound like a five year old's imitation of a fart.

Using MIDI to imitate brass instruments deserves to be legally banned.

Mark Oates
Quote:

Trombone: yes. Trumpet: yes.

Sweet, Tobias would be better for this kind of thing, could you record those parts? I have more of that wanky classical sound. :-/

jhuuskon
Quote:

Using MIDI to imitate brass instruments deserves to be legally banned.

Don't blame the control protocol, blame the synthesizer, which I'm guessing is that horrible Microsoft/Roland GM/GS synth bundled with XP. It wouldn't produce any better results even if it was controlled via OSC...

Johan Halmén
Trombias said:

The rhythm section needs some serious brushing up (and better samples, especially the various percussion things). The ride cymbal is the last thing I'd worry about. I'd use a different kind of groove in the verse, more r&b, less disco. Some of the fills sound like a ten-year-old who has just found the drum bank on his new casio (remember Ross on 'Friends' with his keyboard? bit like that).

If we just would get anyone to record the drum track with real drums or at least with an electronic drumset to midi, I guess said drummer would find a better rhythm pattern/style.

Quote:

Using MIDI to imitate brass instruments deserves to be legally banned.

Well, they were there to mark the vocal things in the chorus. They were replaced by the vocals in the last mp3. Well, not the toy trumpet thing before 2nd verse.

Tobias Dammers

Just recorded some horn junk (2 trumpets, 2 trombones). Uploading right now (over 13 MB of zipped .wav, so I can't attach it directly).

I've mixed the 4 horns into one stereo track, panned from extreme left to extreme right (with the outer parts around the center and the middle parts at the extreme ends); also added a low cut filter to get rid of rumble, and compression, but no reverb. Whoever does the mixing will hopefully have an easy job with this one. In case someone needs the completely dry tracks, one by one, I might send them, but that will be about 26 MB zipped.

OK, here is the file. I removed the first twenty or so measures of silence, the file starts exactly one bar before the first chorus.

Quote:

Don't blame the control protocol, blame the synthesizer, which I'm guessing is that horrible Microsoft/Roland GM/GS synth bundled with XP. It wouldn't produce any better results even if it was controlled via OSC...

Yes. Even high quality samples, recorded by the world's finest players, and carefully put together in a sampler instrument, can only do so much. The thing is that there are so many different playing styles (all sorts of variations in tone, attack, vibrato - the trombone offers 3 different techniques, valve and lip trills, valved vs. lipped vs. tongued legato, shakes, falls, slurs and whatnot) that it is virtually impossible to emulate them all in a midi-controllable way. (Or if it were, then using those controllers would probably require an equal amount of practice). Another issue is the enormous dynamic range.
There are some fine samples for very specialistic applications: e.g. orchestral trumpet, but using them for anything else just produces crap.

Johan Halmén

Great! I haven't listened to it yet, I'm downloading it right now. So far we have no one for sure who will do all mixing, neither a decision on what is going to be mic recorded and by whom and what will be some midi/software instruments and whose.

Matthew Leverton

Those are all your decisions, Producer Johan!

Johan Halmén

Ok, Matthew, you do at least the singing of verse 1 and 2. And the chorus solo voice. If you're not happy with my lyrics, you're free to create your own and even change the melody, if it only fits the harmony and background vocals. Get some lyrics for verse 2, too. Don't mind what Tobias said about your singing talent, he's just jealous.

I must listen through Tobias' wavs before I know what to do with the rest. I guess Paul's got to record a guitar solo or two. After that we see how much we try to replace the backgrounds with real instruments. At least the rhythm guitar.

Mark Oates

Hell yea Tobias that sounds fantastic!! :D

Matthew Leverton

Okay, Johan. the latest MP3 makes sense to me with the times and the chorus vocals in there. Thanks.

Quote:

I like the mood (nice trashy nerd thing going on there), though the lack of singing skills maybe shows just a bit too much. Throw in some more lyrics, and you're good.

You're exactly right on the mood... that's what I want it to sound like. After all, the song mocks the Monday style of management via a song produced in exactly the same way! It's only fitting that it comes across as completely amateurish.

And I make no apologies about my voice! If I were a good singer, I wouldn't be a programmer. ;) I'll try to at least make it not unbearably bad. I cannot hear tunes in my head, so trying to lead without a proper melody is extremely difficult for me. But I can, of course, tell which parts really suck (comparatively) when I play it back and listen to it.

As more instruments are added, it should get (very slightly) better.

jhuuskon
Quote:

Yes. Even high quality samples, recorded by the world's finest players, and carefully put together in a sampler instrument, can only do so much.

Of course. They're samples. Not all synthesizers use them, you know...

I haven't tried any but heard some surprisingly convincing results come out of a physical modelling synthesizer. I bet combining one of those with a wind controller would produce not necessary realistic results but results convincing enough for the layman to be fooled.

Matthew Leverton

Here's Johan's latest MP3 with the horns added on top (monday-song-with-horns.mp3) for listening pleasure.

Quote:

After that we see how much we try to replace the backgrounds with real instruments. At least the rhythm guitar.

I'm all for using real instruments if we have somebody to play them!

Indeterminatus
Tobias Dammers said:

Trombone: yes. Trumpet: yes. Violin: no, but I could arrange someone for say 100 € per track.

Well, I could give the violin bit a try, but I lack the proper recording equipment, so it might actually sound worse than a synthesizer :P.
What notes, what speed, and what frequency do you use for an A? (440 Hz?)

Pedro Avelar Gontijo

I'll try to record the violin part tomorrow morning. But then, I recommend whoever other violinists (Indeterminatus) are to try it as well, because not only I have never tested the recording equipment I have here but also from all violinists that we could get here, I'm probably the worst.

Are you sure you don't want some Chinese violin sweetness in it? ;)

Tobias Dammers
Quote:

What notes, what speed, and what frequency do you use for an A? (440 Hz?)

The tempo is M.M. = 120, and the tuning should be 440 (the default for pretty much all recording equipment). You'll need to come up with the notes by yourself I guess, but the chord progression is this (1 chord per bar):

 E / / /  B / / /  C#m/ / /  A / / / 
 A / / /  E / / /  A  / / /  B / / /

Quote:

I must listen through Tobias' wavs before I know what to do with the rest. I guess Paul's got to record a guitar solo or two. After that we see how much we try to replace the backgrounds with real instruments. At least the rhythm guitar.

First trumpet does not play anything in the solo backgrounds, the idea was that one might have a trumpet solo. The one I recorded was utter crap though (me not being an actual trumpet player and all). I'd say anyone is welcome to post a solo, guitar, violin, harp, bagpipes, whatever.

Quote:

it might actually sound worse than a synthesizer

Los Van Van, one of the most famous Cuban bands ever, recorded their ground-breaking albums with which they defined the songo genre using microphones from old telephones. They have a frequency response of something 200 to 8000 Hz, and introduce all sorts of nonlinear distortion, but that's one of the reasons why they sounded so unique and fresh (back in the 70's, that is).
A synthesizer doesn't sound bad, it only does when it tries to emulate acoustic instruments, something at which most synthesizers suck big time.

Johan Halmén

In Matthew's latest mp3 the horns are an 8th note too early, I think. They kind of fit in, but not very good in the chorus. Oops, sorry, Tobias, if I'm wrong.

I don't know how much you hear of the lyrics in the chorus. At least in Matthew's latest mp3 the sound is really messed up, so here we go:
Allegro cee cee... It's totally lame! Allegro cee cee... You sure won't get no fame! Allegro cee cee... Ain't it just a shame that no one's got a real life!
I recorded each song part only once. And then I copied it to each chorus. But the last "no one's got a real life" should have a lazy ritardando (slow down). If no one wants to add something else to the end. I kind of like the ending as it is, the soloist's (Matthew's) single voice is the last thing one hears.

[edit]
:-[ Don't know what I sing there, but it should be "...ain't it just a shame...".

Matthew Leverton
Quote:

In Matthew's latest mp3 the horns are an 8th note too early, I think.

Probably. I used Audacity and guestimated a point. Was close enough for me, so I just saved and uploaded. ;)

Johan Halmén
Quote:

I'd say anyone is welcome to post a solo, guitar, violin, harp, bagpipes, whatever.

Well, one guitar solo from Pedro and one trombone solo from Tobias would be enough. But any more solos could fit in. I'm talking about the solo part from 1:42 to 2:14. If needed, it could be extended. As I said, the very last chorus could also have some add on improvisation, to give the feeling of getting off the ground.

Tobias said:

The one I recorded was utter crap though

Don't be modest. No one else is.

Since this is obviously growing to something great, should we take care of some licensing? Like everyone who contributed with anything is free to make money with it.

[edit]
BTW, is this whole Monday thing only an a.cc inside thing? I don't visit other forums or coders' societies, so I wouldn't know. Tried to google a little, but didn't find anything.

Ron Novy

Cool. That sounds awesome but the backup vocals are a bit muddy to me and I think the trumpets/trombones could come up a bit... I'd like to get all the audio tracks when you're all finished. I have some mastering stuff here that I could try and use to make a semi-pro mixdown. The best I could do with midi right now is an old XG synth, but I could do a lot if I had actual audio tracks. I have a fast connection here and really not much else to do atm.

Johan Halmén

Yes, I did some stupid and useless reverb and chorus testing on my vocal tracks and I just left it that way. Two or three mp3 encodings and it got really messy. I might do a re-recording of the background vocals, either I do them one octave lower or I sing them a fifth lower and do some magic with Logic Express to get them back to the key of E.

If you'll do the final mix and we have to depend on midi, it doesn't mean you have to have the synth. I could as well convert the midi tracks to audio. I have some good instruments, if I only find them among all Logic and Garage Band stuff.

Ron Novy

Cool... Erg. That damn explosion just rattles the room :o and needs a little equalization but I can't do that without destroying that part of the mix. But it can all be fixed... I like the reverb sound on the backup vocals it just needs the low end trimmed off a bit. Matthew's vocals have kind of a distorted sound with some bite between 1KHz and 4KHz which is ok, but it needs a little more low end. You probably won't be able to get that with a little computer mic though, but that could always be fixed later in the mix too...

Here... I did a quick remix of that one and it sounds ok I think... But I'm going for lunch now... Let me know what you think.

oh yeah... If anyone has trouble sending .wav or converting to quality mp3's for shipping tracks over the net you could always use wavpack (www.wavpack.com) to compress stuff first. Actually wavpack support would be a good add on for Allegro saying its a loss-less compression format ;)

Paul whoknows

I attached a MP3 file with a guitar solo, rhythm guitars and a little 2-guitars arrangement. Let me know what you think.

Anyways, here is a ZIP file with each separated track in WAV file format:
http://rapidshare.com/files/146687267/Tracks.zip.html

Ron Novy

Paul, the other instruments cut out during the solo... I love the solo though... The rhythm guitar sounds a little out of tune though which might be the intonation on your guitar. Maybe me or someone else should do the rhythm guitar? I think I've got it down. I'd just have to record it...

BTW... What did you use to record that solo? That sound was pretty cool.:D

[edit] And now that I think about it, wavpack is slow when compressing/decompressing so no add-on...

Johan Halmén

That solo is really beautiful, Paul! It fills the whole solo part. If there's going to be other solo instruments, too, I'll just extend the part. If Tobias plays a solo as long as this, I guess we place the trombone solo first and then the guitar, because of the brightness of the guitar sound.

Thomas Fjellstrom

Johan, yeah, lots of n00bs come and post on mondays about starting new team projects.

Matthew Leverton

I've never seen any other website forum refer to it as the Monday Thread, but surely the same problem exists in any game development community.

Anyway, here's a rough demo of Verse 2.

Over the weekend, I'll supply some raw vocal tracks for you to manipulate and mock at your own discretion.

:o Spoilers Below!!!! :o

Lyrics:

It's Monday, late
In the afternoon.
Just got out of bed
With this awesome idea.

(It's been stuck in my head!)

Let's join our hands,
Do this little dance,
Make us a game.

I'll be the boss,
You'll do as I say!
So write me some code.
You'll get no pay.

(But that's okay.)

It's Monday now,
And we're making a game...
An RPG!

Allegro cee cee... It's totally lame!
Allegro cee cee... You'll get no fame!
Allegro cee cee... Ain't it just a shame
That no one's got a real life?

It's Tuesday now.
Why aren't we done?
I look around,
No one's begun.

(Where is everyone?)

Let's join our hands,
Do this little dance,
Make us a game!

Where'd I go wrong?
I thought I was clear!
I wanted to make
The game of the year.

(I know I can!)

Now I can tell, well,
I should have used...
SDL!

Allegro cee cee... It's totally lame!
Allegro cee cee... You'll get no fame!
Allegro cee cee... Ain't it just a shame
That no one's got a real life?

Solo

Allegro cee cee... It's totally lame!
Allegro cee cee... You'll get no fame!
Allegro cee cee... Ain't it just a shame
That no one's got a real life?

Allegro cee cee... It's totally lame!
Allegro cee cee... You'll get no fame!
Allegro cee cee... Ain't it just a shame
That no one's got a real life?

Pedro Avelar Gontijo

I activated my squeaky violin and recorded the violin melody and a little solo that could enter right in the beginning of the solo part, before Paul's guitar because it's pure awesomeness and it should definitely end the solo. (I love the duet part, it sounds so sweet it's untrue! Guitars don't sound that good easily, you've got something there)

Ron Novy

Matthew, those lyrics are just perfect... I could auto tune the vocals if you feel like going pro ;)

Yes Paul... That guitar solo! If I didn't know any better I'd say Malmsteen. I mean that 'is' the sound a solo guitar should make ;) BTW I did some EQ on it and tested it in the mix and it must be Malmsteen... So who are you really? Or do you have him tied up in your back room with a guitar wrapped around his neck?

Pedro. That's cool violin... The track clipped a little, but I already fixed that. ;)
I attached a clip of the violin after all that plus a little tuning ;)

Johan Halmén

Here's the first chorus with new background vocals and no solo voice. It's better not to have same singer in both backgrounds and soloist. Matthew, you could use this snippet for recording the chorus lines. We could use same recording in three first choruses and maybe another for the last chorus (with any change in lyrics or slowdown or gimmick whatever you can think of).

The raw dry background vocals are here:

http://kotisivu.dnainternet.fi/johan25/musik/chorus.wav.zip

It's a stereo track with the voices slightly to the right, a bit apart from each other. And an annoying sounding B in a very high octave due to a lousy iMic. I left it there, maybe Ron has better tools for filtering it out. The two higher parts I sang an octave lower and had Logic Express transpose it up. It still sounds falsetto, but much better than my own falsetto. The third part I sang in right octave.

Seems we have all the needed lyrics here. They turned out to be a success. Even if they tell a kind of an inside thing, the song could be something that advertises this great community. Especially when Matthew himself is the lead singer. The background vocals could have been sung by female voices. Diana, Manjula, Nichole? Are they still with us?

Pedro Avelar Gontijo

Ron, thanks, that's better than I would even expect! A shame I couldn't do that myself ;D I'd rather not bother the inhabitants of this house too long with the sound of my squeaky violin.

And at Johan, I fail to see why falsetto is something to be avoided. I think all of the vocals you provided so far sound great.
This might actually sound good after all, it's impressive how we have so much hidden musical talent here. :)

Johan Halmén

As I get older, my falsetto gets weaker. When I did that last mix, I got my voice sound like it used to. There's nothing wrong with falsetto, but usually another singer who can sing same pitch with full vocal chords action sounds better than the falsetto voice.

There's musical talent everywhere. But nowadays people don't have time for it anymore. People who don't have music as a profession tend to see themselves as music consumers, not producers.

[edit]
Any progress on that time mechgin song?

Matthew Leverton
Quote:

I could auto tune the vocals if you feel like going pro

I don't care what is done to my vocals... I can tell they are off. I grew up singing church hymns, and they're about the only things I can sing on tune. :P

Quote:

It's better not to have same singer in both backgrounds and soloist

I agree.

Ron Novy

Pedro, it really wasn't that bad. I think the little parts that went out of tune were most likely you being a little nervous after hitting record. At least that's what it sounded like to me... It happens to me all the time.

Johan, those vocals sound good how it is... Your right though, transposing vocals or any instrument up even just a few notes means that you lose the natural low end frequencies... It's not something that can be processed back in though... You could always try to mix the unfiltered version (before the transposition) into the background of the filtered one to make it sound a bit more natural. If I had the unfiltered versions both transposed and not I could fix it up even more...

Ok... I'm doing a head count of the tracks I have so far and let me see:

Chorus
Violin Solo
Violin Melody
solo (guitar)
ritmicas (guitar)
2guitars

All I need is the rest of the tracks and there relative start times/beats and I could make a mixdown... And it sounds good so far. I think we have a hit ;D

piccolo
Quote:

Any progress on that time mechgin song?

I think its on hold until the monday song in finshed.
but your wellcome try and do somtsomethingh it. this is the track so far

http://www.allegro.cc/files/attachment/596473

Quote:

I grew up singing church hymns

I knew it! This is why i hear the potential in your voice.

Johan Halmén

Well, the raw dry background vocals were not actually raw, they were transposed, that is the two higher voices. I used Logic's Vocal Transformer, which preserves the formants while changing the pitch. It was not the chipmonk transform. I do have the three background voices as separate tracks, in their untransposed unfiltered form. But at some point the two higher voices should be transposed to get the whole chorus idea right.

I thought it could be handy to have more options with the rhythm guitars, so I recorded two times with a steel acoustic the whole song through. I placed them on one stereo wave, far left and far right which usually sounds good for two similar guitars, but they could be narrowed, too. The track starts exactly at bar 2 (where intro starts at 1 and verse at 3). By options I mean you could choose to get the guitars there when Pedro's violin starts, or in the choruses, or anything, or just leave them off. I'm trying some mixing myself, but I haven't placed everything yet. Since we don't have Matthew's clean vocal track yet, there's not that much point. The additional rhythm guitars are here:

http://kotisivu.dnainternet.fi/johan25/musik/ac_guitars.wav.zip (23.7 MB)

I could record the electric bass, but I'm not sure how I should do it. I could play directly to a Logic or Garageband track and maybe put on some electric bass amp simulator. Or I could fetch a real bass amp from school and record with mic.

Ron Novy

Yeah the backup vocals sound good... I cleaned up some background noise and fluffy breath noise and it sounds perfect. I think the EQ was on in Media Player and that made it sound different... I've been up-sampling the tracks to 88200/float for the mixing too and I think that made the difference when cleaning them up... I'm still waiting for the guitar tracks to download... My connection seems to be freaking out for some reason...

[edit]
Ah yes.. My connection is back.. I guess I spoke to soon... The rhythm guitars sound freaking awesome... What kind of equipment did you use to record that (mic, pre-amp, DAC, etc.)?

As for bass I'd say do it if you can... I'll have a bass guitar later today so I'll try it out and we can compare... The only thing is I only have a Marshal stack here to play on and not a real bass amp. I could try to play through these PA speakers as it has some 15" speakers, but I've never tryed that ...

Matthew Leverton

http://members.allegro.cc/matthew/misc/monday-vocals.zip

I can re-record any (or all) of it as needed.

Johan Halmén

Maybe the very last "Ain't it just a shame...". When it comes four times exactly identically, it might ruin the illusion of a recorded stage performance. (Yes, there are some other things in the production that do that, too, but you get my point).

I recorded the rhythm guitars with a strange Suzuyo Mark 31 steel string guitar with lousy dirty strings, Shure PG58 dynamic, Griffin's iMic USB thing, and my Mac PowerBook with Logic Express. I did nothing to the audio, except the panning the two mono tracks and exporting them to a single stereo wav file. What the Powerbook or Logic does to the audio I don't know.

Once upon a time, very long ago, I think it was the day before yesterday, Matthew said:

By the way, when we are done with this song, we need to make a music video too.

Actually it could be very fun if the video showed how everyone really did the recordings instead of a totally faked situation with some cool musicians playing together. I sang the backgrounds at our kitchen table, while my 9 year old son was looking at some fun stuff on YouTube. He gave some weird looks at me.

Anomie

I had to return to this place to demand a cover of Tom Wait's Christmas Card From a Hooker In Minneapolis with Matthew's lyrics.

Ron Novy
Quote:

I sang the backgrounds at our kitchen table, while my 9 year old son was looking at some fun stuff on YouTube. He gave some weird looks at me.

:-/>:(:-[:'(???:(:):D;D:-*::):P:o:-X

[edit] Couldn't get the bass today... Darn...

What about the brass instruments, were they ever done with real instruments?

Pedro Avelar Gontijo

listening to Matthew's vocals ahaha, this is sheer greatness :D
And the guitars sound very good too. I can't wait to hear the final mix!

To Ron: that is totally true :P recording with a score: "gotta... get it... right!" / improvising: "ha, this is more fun than I expected!". That explains why the solo sounds a lot better than the verse...

[edit]
Ok, nobody asked for it, but here is Pedro's awesome Chinese violin for your listening pleasure ;D

Ron Novy

Is that someone mowing the lawn in the background? Or is that one of those vibrating beds in a cheap motel? ;D

Cool.

Matthew Leverton
Quote:

Maybe the very last "Ain't it just a shame...". When it comes four times exactly identically, it might ruin the illusion of a recorded stage performance. (Yes, there are some other things in the production that do that, too, but you get my point).

I'll wait for people to mix stuff together in case the chorus change at the end.

Quote:

Actually it could be very fun if the video showed how everyone really did the recordings instead of a totally faked situation with some cool musicians playing together.

I was just thinking of something like an animation (Flash style) mostly because I think it would be easier to do.

Quote:

What about the brass instruments, were they ever done with real instruments?

http://www.allegro.cc/forums/thread/597715/771170#target

Johan Halmén

Never improvise background voices. It sounds terrible when you have something that's supposed to sound like a choir, but it's only one person doing multi track recording, improvising the voices at the studio. Of course, if it's not supposed to sound like a choir, but like one person doing multi track recording, improvising the voices at the studio, then it's ok.

Ron said:

What about the brass instruments, were they ever done with real instruments?

You mean Tobias' horns? Listen to his own recordings! Grupo Azul etc. Would he care to fool around with some stupid synt horns? In a serious production like this?

Ron Novy

Oh crap... :o Thanks Matthew. I looked back through the thread and missed that link... I've got it now though.

Quote:

Never improvise background voices. It sounds terrible when you have something that's supposed to sound like a choir, but it's only one person doing multi track recording, improvising the voices at the studio. Of course, if it's not supposed to sound like a choir, but like one person doing multi track recording, improvising the voices at the studio, then it's ok.

Yes. I agree there... Doing multiple tracks of one person only gives you a more natural chorus 'effect', which does sound better then using some kind of digital chorus 'effect', but it's not a means of replacing actual backup singers or an actual choir... I'd just laugh if someone called themselves a choir when they just recorded themselves 20 or so times..

jhuuskon

Or you could just use VoiceWorks and dial in the background singers.

Tobias Dammers
Quote:

You mean Tobias' horns? Listen to his own recordings! Grupo Azul etc. Would he care to fool around with some stupid synt horns?

I wouldn't dare to. The horn parts I posted are as real as it gets. Here's the gear list:
Trumpet: Getzen 300
Trumpet mouthpiece: the one that came with the trumpet
Trombone: Conn Director (from 1985 judging by the serial)
Trombone mouthpiece: Vincent Bach 6 1/2 A
Mic: AKG C519 (third generation of the legendary clip-on)
D/A: TASCAM US-122 L
PC: Custom-built intel core 2 duo system, 4 GB RAM

And to answer the question about where the horn parts go:
Open your favourite audio suite, set the tempo to 120. Put the mixdown at measure 1. Put the horn part at measure 19 (on the first beat). The first horn note will be one 8th before the first beat of measure 20 (the first chorus; the horns follow the backing vocals there).

And does, by any chance, anyone have a recent version with everything in it?

Johan Halmén

Maybe Ron has. Otherwise they are all here [the tracks, that is], some very raw, some slightly mixed. One question is, should the solo choruses be extended. As it is now, Paul's guitar fills it all. Would it be too long if we'd double the length? That is, if Tobias would play a trombone solo.

[edit]
My son tried to play the bass part. He got some good stuff there, but then he got a blister. :P Too much plectrum playing, too little fingered playing. I might try the bass part tomorrow.

Ron Novy

Maybe I'll have one for you later... I've been working on it between mixes of other songs so it might take some time... It would make things go quicker if I had the start times for all the tracks. I can figure them out myself but I've suddenly come into a bit more work here...

Paul whoknows
Johan Halmén, Pedro Avelar Gontijo & Ron Novy said:

A lot of kind words about my solo.

Thanks guys! glad you liked it! :)

Quote:

I thought it could be handy to have more options with the rhythm guitars, so I recorded two times with a steel acoustic the whole song through.

Sounds great! and it has a nice stereo effect which I liked a lot :)

Quote:

It would make things go quicker if I had the start times for all the tracks.

I used the midi file as reference and all the WAV files I provided begin exactly at the beginning of a measure, so it shouldn't be a problem. However, I don't know how the others did.

Johan Halmén

I'll try to give some times:
Paul's guitar solo at bar 50, that is 1'38"
Matthew's stuff:
chorus at bar 19ish, 0'36" +4.56 frames (there are 24 in a second)
chorus at bar 43ish, 1'24" +4.56 frames
chorus at bar 67ish, 2'12" +4.56 frames
chorus at bar 75ish, 2'28" +4.56 frames
verse 1 at 0'0" + 4.55 frames
"It's been stuck" at 0'11" +9.3 frames
"That's okay" at 0'27" +22.73 frames
verse 2 at 0'47" +17.15 frames
"Hey! Where is everyone" at 1'00"
"I know I can" at 1'15" +14.05 frames

My rhythm guitars should start at the very beginning. All these times are according to the setup I have on Logic Express, where I have one emptry bar in the beginning, that's bar 1, then intro starts in bar 2 and the verse in bar 4.

I hope I didn't cut any of the sequences from the beginning. The given times should be the time for the actual wave file to start. The music starts some seconds later, depending on how long the silence is. All wavs I've supplied should start at an exact bar start, which should make it a bit easier, if your software counts bars.

[edit]
emptry? Where did that typo come from. That should definitely be a word. What could it mean? My project for last Tins? :P

[edit]
I just recorded the bass track at work. Not very good yet. I used an old Ibanez Musician, which sure would need a touch of a gentle service. And a Peevey amp, Shure mic, Mackie public amp, iMic, HP laptop, Audacity. I had made an mp3 of what I have on my Powerbook & Logic Express. I listened to it with a Creative MP3 player while I recorded. Now I try to fit the recorded mono bass track with the mp3 stereo track in Audacity, just to listen to it and check the bass recording. When I time the bass track with the mp3 track in the beginning, there's a 50 ms shift at the end, the bass track being too short. The cause might be anything here, Logic, the Powerbook, the HP, the Creative counting 2 min 45 sec differently. Logic and Creative encoding and decoding mp3 differently.

I guess I'll do the recording at home with my Powerbook & Logic. They have shown almost no problems with timing so far. Paul's guitar was perfect timing from beginning to end, as well as Tobias' horns. Only Matthew's tracks made with Audacity might have had some 20-50 ms shifting from beginning to end of the recording. When Matthew sings the beginning ("It's Monday late...") in perfect time, then at "Do this little dance" he's some 30 ms too early. If Ron wants to get into those timing things, he could do it, shifting sections back and forth, but it's not necessary. It might even be that the problems are only in my equipment.

How about the drum track, Ron? I haven't done anything to the midi data, just tried different software drums. Would you need a complete wav for them or will you use some of your own software drums? Since we don't seem to get any real drummer here, anyone is free to make a compilation of the drum data into a wav.

About Matthew's exclamations ("It's been stuck", "That's okay", "Hey! Where is everyone", "I know I can"), They should be mixed so that they sound either exactly the same as the verse singing, or completely in another room. Imagine a music video, where Matthew sings in the mic. Then, at the exclamations, you see him in a totally different situation.

Tobias Dammers
Quote:

Imagine a music video, where Matthew sings in the mic.

I'd rather not.

Johan Halmén

;D

It's Tuesday now. Why aren't we done? ;D :P
Yeah working week began. Anyway, here's a bass track. No amp, just straight into the iMic and Logic.

http://kotisivu.dnainternet.fi/johan25/musik/bass1.wav.zip (14.5 MB)

It became a stereo track, my misstake, but it zipped down to almost the size it would have been as a mono track.

Ron Novy

Awesome... I started putting more stuff together last night but I got too tired to finish it... I've got some time now so I'll try and get a quick mix so you can hear it... I can try and run the bass through an amp to get a more amped sound too ;)

[edit] One problem with doing collaborations like this is that some consumer and semi-pro equipment have bad clocks that aren't very accurate... Creative cards are usually off by several Hz so even if we all recorded our tracks at 44100Hz the timing may be a bit off. It's usually not that bad when using modern sound cards but there is still something like ~+-1% variation.. If you know exactly how long it should be you could always time stretch the track to the perfect length. If you do that you don't need to preserve pitch either...

[edit] OK here is a test mix of the song... I double tracked the rhythm guitar for verse 1 and 2. I put the bass through an amp and mixed a real stereo track from it and basically cleaned up all the tracks and re-sampled them at 48KHz/32-bit for mixing... I left the vocals out for now because some of the tracks become a bit off time the further the song goes along (see last edit). Fixed as much as I could for now though.

I put the MIDI stuff into the background so the missing tracks would be there, I just can't mute the individual tracks so there all there.... I've fixed most of the stuff, but I may be away for a few days or so and thought I should leave you with something... It's in no way finished so let me know whats missing... Actually make a list for me if you can. Some of the files had the same names so when I dumped them all into one folder a few may have gone missing. It sounds pretty good so far even though we need some more audio stuff...

Solo still sounds good too ;D

Johan Halmén

Ough! The bass starts to lagg terribly. But in the last chorus it sounds ok again ???

At 1:08 you could maybe lower the electric rhythm guitar or something to lift up the cool horns. Any kind of variations in the different parts would be good, I think.

At 0:47 there's possibly a wrong note in the fiddle. Or it's just sustained, but it might not sound good if the background vocals are there, too. Again, the different chorus parts might gain from variation. Now there's lots of stuff doing the same melody&harmonics there. Perhaps it could grow gradually towards the end.

[philosophy_of_the_song]
OTOH I like the overall happy feeling in the music and it obviously comes from the thick layer of melody & harmony and the ska-like rhythm. It contrasts to the actual lyrics. Lyrics tell the actual situation, which sucks. The mood in the music tells what the situation should be.

Tobias Dammers
Quote:

One problem with doing collaborations like this is that some consumer and semi-pro equipment have bad clocks that aren't very accurate... Creative cards are usually off by several Hz so even if we all recorded our tracks at 44100Hz the timing may be a bit off. It's usually not that bad when using modern sound cards but there is still something like ~+-1% variation.. If you know exactly how long it should be you could always time stretch the track to the perfect length. If you do that you don't need to preserve pitch either...

As long as everything is recorded using the same mp3 as a reference, there should be no problem: you play it back 1% faster, but you also record 1% faster. As long as all your equipment uses the same clock source, you're good. It's only when you sync to midi that you get in trouble, and even then you are only doomed if midi and audio use different clock sources. A decent audio workstation will let you choose clock sources.

Johan Halmén

It's not possible that the mp3 format does some resampling of smaller chunks and maybe loses one ms here, one there? Like some video codecs work only on widths that are multiples of four and converting something to them loses not only information but also the original size. I know wav doesn't lose anything, but I'm not sure of mp3. It loses sound quality, so why couldn't it lose precision in time, too? Don't different computers show jpg images differently, depending on the precision of the CPU/MPU?

Tobias Dammers
Quote:

why couldn't it lose precision in time, too? Don't different computers show jpg images differently, depending on the precision of the CPU/MPU?

No, and no. MP3 works in the frequency domain, just like jpg; both reduce the amount of information available for the spectrum of a chunk. The size of the chunk, however, is fixed. It has to be, because the transfer functions to and from the frequency domain typically require block sizes that are multiples of two, to allow for certain optimizations. 256 samples remain 256 samples throughout the encoding and decoding process, and with jpg, an 8x8 block keeps its size.
The only thing where time is lost or created is with lousy encoders, that may skip the last chunk (that is, they round the number of required chunks down instead of up).

piccolo

Great job Allegro.cc.

edit:

every sounded great to me on my card. the only thing that was off was the gituar started off time at 00:38

Ron Novy

I'm starting over with some better software/midi tools... This should keep everything in sync. I'm not that familiar with the software, but it should solve all the problems...

[edit] Some cards also use different clocks for playback and record which could mess things up even further...

Paul whoknows

Nice work Ron! I really liked how it sounds! and the rhythmic guitars now sounds a lot better!

However, the 2-guitars arrangement is placed in the wrong place, and the solo is slightly out of time too.

Here I attached a mp3 showing how my tracks should sound. BTW, the midi file I used as reference has a tempo = 120.5, so probably this is the source of confusion, not sure though.

Ron Novy

Paul, after reading your post I realized :P You were trying to trick me again... It was 120.56 BPM and that has made a big difference... It sounds a lot better now.

[edit] Erg... :-[ What did all of you use to record these tracks? All of them have a slightly different time signature >:( Does anyone know how to use score align? or would that even help? [edit] And what MIDI file did you use?

OK... I think I've got it now... The software I've been using has been rounding the BPM off... 120.5 became 121 etc...

Paul whoknows

If you ask me, using non-integer values to set the tempo is probably one of the worst ideas I can think of.

Johan Halmén

My guess is that it's my error. I have this old logic Fun on a PC, that has a freaking tempo controll, where you drag with the mouse over the number field and it has some 10 decimals or something. I could have just typed in the tempo to get it exact to 120 (after testing some other tempo), but I'm afraid I just adjusted it to be 120 something. And after that I might myself have used some other player that rounded it to 120. :P, :P and again :P.

[edit]
Alas it adds some extra work, but I don't think there's no need for re-recording everything. If it helps, I could put all raw waves together, do the time correction and export the separate tracks as wav files.

Ron Novy

Erg... It was just me ::) I was assuming everything had started at the beginning of a measure or beat, but instead I'm dumb! it was all using SMPTE 24fps... That must be what audacity uses correct? Luckily I was able to change the software to use SMPTE 24fps instead... All is well now ;D and I'll have a better mix of the song in a few...

Johan Halmén

...mondays.

Matthew Leverton

As if I were a prophet:

http://www.allegro.cc/forums/thread/597784

An RPG in a week. ::)

Ron Novy

OK... I'm leaving around 1pm (Pacific time) today and won't be back for a several days. :-/ I've got a mix of the song without the midi instruments in the background... I'll try and mix the midi instruments down, but like I said before it probably won't sound too great. If someone has a better sounding instrument for it then post it and I'll try and get another mix out before I leave...

Another thing we should do is make a list of credits so it can be included in the final MP3, OGG, etc...

Let me know what needs to change here... I'll start it out:

Some of the backup Vocals are loud
Intro Missing
Drums!
Other midi tracks

[edit] Leaving early :-/
I'll fix the stuff later...

Johan Halmén

The intro was just something I did out of Mark's quick melody idea. Since it's been there from the beginning, we could keep it, but if someone has a better idea, show it. Could Paul try to replace the midi intro with a real guitar? Either play it as it is or something else.

The drumless track sounds promising, otoh it reveals some bad playing here and there (especially in the bass :-[). I think the violin thing between chorus and following verse (or solo) is actually better than the silly horn thing and explosion.

Paul whoknows

Well done! I like it a lot! Tobias' brass section really shines in this mix! BTW, who sang the chorus? it sounds truly amazing! :)

Quote:

Could Paul try to replace the midi intro with a real guitar?

I'll do it. That little melody is just perfect to perform a tapping-lick a la Van Halen.

piccolo

the 1st, 4th vocal samples and the first "game of the year" vocal sample timing sounds a bit off.

every thing else sounds cool.

Matthew Leverton

Johan sings the "Allegro cee cee" and everything else is (unfortunately ;)) me.

This latest version is promising!

lambik

Damn, it is starting to sound good ;D

Tobias Dammers
Quote:

Tobias' brass section really shines in this mix!

More fuel for my ego. I should do this more often. ;D

Vanneto
Matthew said:

Johan sings the "Allegro cee cee" and everything else is (unfortunately ;)) me.

Actually, its not that bad. It would be 10x times better if it wasn't for you shitty mic. :P

Johan Halmén

No, it's good. It's the part of the how_I_like_it_to_be/how_it_really_is thing. The lousy sound quality of the song track represents the real world and how the Monday project sucks, while the rest of the music is the imaginary world of the prefect Monday project.

Matthew Leverton

The music represents everything that is stolen for an a.cc game: e.g., music!

The lyrics represent everything that is original in an a.cc game: e.g., the gameplay (maybe)!

The vocals represent everything that sucks in an a.cc game: e.g., okay, just about everything.

But for the record, I'm not sure a better microphone would give you the results for which you are wishfully hoping. :-X

Johan Halmén
Ron said:

Another thing we should do is make a list of credits so it can be included in the final MP3, OGG, etc...

...the rolling text at the end of the video, registering at RIAA...
[dream_mode=0]
I take credit for background vocals, bass, rhythm guitars (if they are there), some of the lyrics, drums track (I'll give it another try, not that I'll change the rhythm patterns, only the instruments).

I took Ron's last rough mix, added the clean midi drum track (Soundmax wavetable synth) to it:

http://kotisivu.dnainternet.fi/johan25/musik/AMs(08-09-24)withdrums.mp3

Tobias Dammers

The bass still lags, especially in the last two choruses. I think it should be re-recorded, 'cause there's no way you get anything tight this way.

weapon_S

Hi. I did something with the drums. MIDI though...
If(you like the concept && think it's usefull)
{ I'll work it out better. :'( It's a bitch getting a mp3 on a floppy so I must listen more carefully to the music. I.e. length of song, breaks, tone of song :-X}
else {I can't help}
BTW More cheesy bells please?

Johan Halmén

Don't know. I kind of liked more the ska style in the original, even though it was mine and not very correct style. I could listen to that drumtrack of yours together with Ron's last drumless mp3. But there's one major flaw in your drum track. It's when the snare and bass reverse the figure. It's just not right. Bass should be on the 1/4 beat and snare on the 1/8 backbeat, not the other way around. At least when I listened to it with my midi player, I got lost in the beat/backbeat if I focused on the drum.

I was going to check on ska patterns and try to copy something useful to this tune. Even some midi files on the net might have what we need here.

Onewing
bamccaig

Sample that shit.* :P

* For the record, that's not rapping. ::)

Mark Oates

woah. What's the history on that one? :P

Onewing

;D

Hey, it's not everyday I get to reference it and it is taking up space on "the internet," so I might as well post it when I can. I believe it was before I "passed the crazy crown."

Quote:

woah. What's the history on that one?

For a quick recap of the thread, I believe it went:

bamccaig: "Here's my total dissertation on the analysis of today's current rap artists."
onewing: "Anybody can rap."
bamccaig: "::)That is not true ::), it takes a lyrical genius to-"
onewing: "Look at me I'm rapping on a.cc."
bamccaig: "::) That was embarrassing. For you. ::) That would hardly pass under today's crappy 'hip hop' genre. ::)::)::)"
onewing: "Love me. [/beg] :-*"
bamccaig: "..."

I aspire to reach the lyrical genius that is our Matthew. ;D

bamccaig
Onewing said:

I aspire to reach the lyrical genius that is our Matthew. ;D

Nah, the lyrics don't fit the song properly and they don't rhyme enough. For a spoken song like this, there needs to be a lot more lyrics, all of which should rhyme and actually add something, to fill in what would otherwise be a vocalist holding notes. The thing is that singing provides more than just the words -- it's also like a another musical instrument. Rapping, and speaking to music (which more closely describes the verses of the Monday song), needs to convey more through the lyrics to make up for the lack of notes. Otherwise, it just sounds lame. It's a good effort by the community and a mildly funny song, but genius the lyrics are not. <lyric-police/>

Mark Oates
Quote:

For a spoken song like this, there needs to be a lot more lyrics, all of which should rhyme and actually add something...

I think you'll only find that in Emenem and a handfull of other artists.

Quote:

...needs to convey more through the lyrics to make up for the lack of notes.

So instrumental music then needs a lot more notes to make up for the lack of lyrics? I'd like your formula for this one, please.

Pedro Avelar Gontijo

Hey, I thought we were revolutioning the world, that rap was damn cool as well ;D

bamccaig
Mark Oates said:

So instrumental music then needs a lot more notes to make up for the lack of lyrics? I'd like your formula for this one, please.

I think instrumentals definitely need to be more complicated and have more notes then a typical song, with band and vocalist(s). If there are long pauses that add nothing to the song then yes, moar notes! Obviously some artists go beyond what is necessary, meaning you could take one or more instruments out of the piece and it would still be beautiful. However, vocals are not like a background instrument; they're like a major instrument -- something that the listener focuses on. Take that away and they begin to focus on the other instruments. Humans can take information in quickly so the only reason for not saturating the song with content is a lack of content, which usually means very little effort was put into it. Which sounds like all the writer was aiming for, but I certainly don't call that genius.

Most know pauses can be part of a song, but it's pretty obvious to me that the lyrics were hastily written and nobody took the time to polish them, instead using long pauses to line up the timing.

Tobias Dammers

The number of notes or their complexity is not related to the piece's quality or beauty. In fact, a great composer delivers the message with the minimum amount of fuss. The same goes for lyrics: If you can say what you have to say in two lines, then those two lines shall be the lyrics.

Remember that scene in "Dead Poets' Society", where they read about how to determine the quality of a poem by multiplying the importance of the subject by the perfection of the applied stylistic devices, and then he makes them tear that chapter out of the book? You are the author of that chapter.

You don't understand Art, and that's OK. Maybe nobody really does. But please don't claim you do.

Mark Oates
Quote:

The number of notes or their complexity is not related to the piece's quality or beauty. In fact, a great composer delivers the message with the minimum amount of fuss. The same goes for lyrics: If you can say what you have to say in two lines, then those two lines shall be the lyrics.

Remember that scene in "Dead Poets' Society", where they read about how to determine the quality of a poem by multiplying the importance of the subject by the perfection of the applied stylistic devices, and then he makes them tear that chapter out of the book? You are the author of that chapter.

You don't understand Art, and that's OK. Maybe nobody really does. But please don't claim you do.

Nice. Can I publish that in my blog? I'll totally link to your site.

bamccaig

Some people consider art the result of randomly throwing paint on canvas. I don't. Art is means for communication and expression and requires thought and effort. If you can express your idea in two lines then you don't need to write a 4 minute song to accompany it. Leave a sticky note. The right tools for the job.

Inphernic
HardTranceFan
Quote:

Some people consider art the result of randomly throwing paint on canvas. I don't. Art is means for communication and expression and requires thought and effort. If you can express your idea in two lines then you don't need to write a 4 minute song to accompany it. Leave a sticky note. Tools for the job.

To paraphrase:

After 4 minutes expressing your tool, you leave your ideas and randomly throw on the canvas, creating 2 sticky lines that communicates the job.

[edit]
Inphernic: That sounds really neat :D.

Mark Oates

Nice Inphernic!

I've had some good success with this free pitch-correct VST called GSnap

weapon_S

Is the song finished? I looked up ska, and I think a one-drop rhythm with reversed snare and bass would suit this song just fine. But I don't think the rest of the song sounds ska, except for the horns at the end off-beat.
1:1.000.000 I can record some drums. Perhaps I can (midi) sequence something... If there's still any activity, because I can certainly not mix anything. I know my first attempt sounded very...unique. Rest here sounds great::)
On art:
I'm gonna paint Jesus! He's so admirable!
That's cool!
(Hey this canvas looks like a naked lady.)
Jesus Christ, what did you paint?!
No, it's a naked girl.
It looks like your mother!
Damn!

I think it is very easy to become insincere in art. Like: "It's got to sound ska, because I don't know anything better" :P or "my intro must have a dramatic ending" or even "the sky's got to be green, because I thought it up". You can't expect your unique message to be bound to anything ever conceived (even by yourself). If (you believe) it isn't unique what you're making, you're making crap IMO. You may be retelling a story you don't even know you are. But often as you go the message changes: preventing that is what an artist should (most of the times) do.
BTW I have this song I intended to use for a my RPG. 8-):P:o::):-X:-[:'(:-/;)

(Nice subtle hint BTW Mark ;))

Tobias Dammers
Quote:

Nice. Can I publish that in my blog? I'll totally link to your site.

By all means, please do.

Johan Halmén

The song is not complete. I've been busy this weekend, but I have to do something to that bass track. Either I re-record it or then I just edit it. And if you want to make a drum track for it, please do. As I said, the reversed snare bass thing sounded to me like time shifted. I don't know, maybe it works, maybe I just have to listen to more ska.

BAF

So where is the latest version? This thread is tl;dr, so the last version i heard was from page 2 or 3 or something.

Pedro Avelar Gontijo

Here it is.

BAF

Haha, awesome.

piccolo

no i dont like this one it must be my computer because the vocal sample timeing is way off you are starting the sample to soon it sound like its rushing the sound.

good thing i download the older ones.

Tobias Dammers

Piccolo: When playing back an mp3 mixdown, no single track can be shifted unless it is shifted in the original mix. It can't be your computer.

GullRaDriel

That song actually rocks !

Johan Halmén

I believe Ron just wanted to show the sound mix of the vocals in that mp3. That's why it had no midi instruments. And he probably hadn't adjusted the timing that much, only the sound (eq, reverb, whatnot).

Gull said:

That song actually rocks !

Ages ago I think I said:

Read sometimes someone's post and imagine that the avatar character says that.

GullRaDriel

Meh, I don't even know if I still have the 'gull' or the cat (I never display avatars cause it's not really allowed to use any form of forum @work teehehehe)

piccolo

Coulds someone plz supply me with the latest full length back music that was used to make this mix down. I will snyic the vocals in FL Studio.

Tobias Dammers
Quote:

cause it's not really allowed to use any form of forum @work teehehehe

Then why do you?

Quote:

Coulds someone plz supply me with the latest full length back music that was used to make this mix down. I will snyic the vocals in FL Studio.

I think our Supreme Producer Johan has that covered.
Apart from that, the syncing only makes sense if you do an actual (final) mix, for which you would need all the original tracks, not just a mixdown. Otherwise, you'd just be wasting your time.

piccolo
Quote:

Apart from that, the syncing only makes sense if you do an actual (final) mix, for which you would need all the original tracks, not just a mixdown. Otherwise, you'd just be wasting your time.

It a habit of mine to fix somthing when i see it not right or broken.

This is why im called a man of many trades.(Sub-tute)portgues trancelation

its not right too add the vocal at this point if they are not done right it make the vocalist sound like they are singing oof cue.

Tobias Dammers
Quote:

It a habit of mine to fix somthing when i see it not right or broken.

You don't work in the software industry, do you? Sometimes, fixing something costs more money than leaving it broken and working around the bug. Also, what is "right" is a matter of personal choice.

Quote:

its not right too add the vocal at this point if they are not done right it make the vocalist sound like they are singing oof cue.

He is. And out of tune. And without any vocal technique whatsoever. Which is entirely intentional. He is Our Supreme Dictator, after all.

Paul whoknows

Pedro, I don't know what you did, but your mix sounds great! it seems the slightly out-of-time issues has been fixed now, good job!

Matthew, can you buy/borrow a Shure SM58? the lack of this item is the only thing that keeps your voice away from fame and immortality.

Matthew Leverton

$109.00! I think not.

I have high hopes for this A.cc CD, but there's no way it will even gross that much money!

BAF

Paul: why don't you send him a mic to use? :P

Ron Novy

Hey everyone... I'll be back maybe sometime next week to try and fix the mix. It's just taking a bit longer for me to get back to work ::)... I had re-mixed the drums and sampled the other instruments we're missing before I left, I just didn't have time to mix it all down and post it... If anyone has any other instruments to add I can mix them in or if anyone wants the cleaned up tracks I can zip them up and post them when I get back... But right now I'm gonna pig out on cake and ice cream ;D

[edit] Decided to come back today. Making a mix of it right now...

[edit] Here it is.. ;) It should sound much better then the last mix ;D I normalized the tracks properly this time although some of the vocals still sound a bit in the background... I think I fixed all the timing issues now, but I may have missed some. Let me know of any changes you'd like to make.

Monday song - (10-03-2008)

Matthew Leverton

For what it's worth, I should be able to record the vocals next week on a better microphone.

Vanneto

Hah, the song is actually pretty good now. Good work everyone. :o

Ron Novy

Mathew, I think the biggest problem with your recorded vocals isn't necessarily the mic. I think you must have set the gain on the mic input too high and so it clipped in the sound hardware... I tried to fix it up but they were just too messed up, but a better mic would also give better results.

I keep playing that solo over and over....

Matthew Leverton

I used a USB Logitech headset:

{"name":"41VQ1SPSKGL.jpg","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/9\/5\/952b7924e486dbb8cc7a23ae15e6c699.jpg","w":500,"h":500,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/9\/5\/952b7924e486dbb8cc7a23ae15e6c699"}41VQ1SPSKGL.jpg

8-)

I had to set the input volume in Audacity at very low or else it was full of very horrible clippy static noises.

Mark Oates
Quote:

I had to set the input volume in Audacity at very low or else it was full of very horrible clippy static noises.

Instead, move the mic further away from your mouth (about 1 to 3 feet) and bring the rec volume back up. You should get a better sound that way.

Matthew Leverton

I would have, but unfortunately I also had to use the headset to listen to the music, so I could only get the mic about a foot away.

Mark Oates

ah...

Johan Halmén

{"name":"596619","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/6\/a\/6aa9895702faffdeedd3788aede2fca1.png","w":601,"h":409,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/6\/a\/6aa9895702faffdeedd3788aede2fca1"}596619
This is how Matthew's song wave looks. The black condensed wave at the top shows that the wave is clipped, though not at the 100 level. But the lower, magnified image shows that it's not digitally clipped. The edge is not a straight line. That might be what the mic does when it reaches its limit. Or the analog pre-amp stage whatever. Lowering the level in Audacity probably only lowered the already clipped wave from 100 to 60. It might work if you adjust the recording level from Windows sound control. That might control the pre-amp or mic-amp, whatever it is that gets overdriven.

About Ron's last mix. It sounds really good, but there's too much stuff. The midi trombone shouldn't be there, playing the melody that Matthew sings in the chorus. And I would take out the violin at the very end, leaving Matthew's voice on its own. The much-stuff feeling is otherwise good. The only thing left that should be midi is the drum track, I think.

piccolo

Ron OMg this what i new it could sound like great job on the twiking.

Just One small problem. in the 2nd verse when mathew say "to make the game of the year". Is it posibel to strech that sample to slow it down a bit? It is starting on cue but it runs a little fast.

other then that great job every one.
King Piccolo is very pleased .

Ron Novy

If Matthew is going to re-record vocals I'm not even going to bother changing them... At least for now...

[edit] I need to fix the rhythm guitar a little too... I recorded another rhythm guitar and tried to blend the two together but it didn't take very well... I'll get back to it later though

Johan Halmén

Whose rhythm guitar do you have there? I think both Paul and I did rhythm guitars.

I'm happy with Matthew's singing. It makes all other sound so damn good. Seriously, the sound of the singing is good enough. I've said it before, it gives a certain touch to the song.

Pedro Avelar Gontijo

I agree. I'd say everything fits in pretty nicely.
It would so rock to have real drums though :(

Ron Novy

The rhythm guitars I have mixed in are ritmicas.xxx and 2guitars.xxx so if I missed one please post a link... If anyone notices anything else missing or anything that should change let me know...

I do like the harsh vocals, but if Matthew does re-record them I can make two test mixes and then we can vote on which one is better... I'd prefer to have new tracks that aren't clipped though because they might settle better in the mix. The clipping just devastates the whole frequency domain and makes it harder to balance it in the mix, but I could always simulate the original sound with some eq if the new tracks sound better...

Johan Halmén

Ok, ritmicas are Paul's and 2guitars are mine, I think.

Ron Novy

Yeah there both there I just need to get rid of the one I recorded myself because it just sounds crappy...

There... I kept the note at the beginning of my track because it rhymes with the bass in the intro and got rid of the rest of my track... After some more tweaks I'll make another mix.

Matthew Leverton

Here are the verses with a different mic: monday-vocals-081006.zip.

I can record it all in one track if you want. Also, let me know what background track I should be listening to as I record.

Ron Novy

Whoa... ::) I don't know if its my computer or if you processed those tracks, but it sounds kinda like the exorcist is singing with you in the background... jk ;D Good job.

What did you use on those tracks?

[edit] Couldn't resist. Check out this thread

piccolo

I just named this one "picture me" http://www.allegro.cc/files/attachment/596451

[coruse]
picture me

hugging you

picture meee ... girl kissin you

picture me lovin you
[/coruse]

[coruse2]
picture me

im hugging you

picture meee ... girl im kissin you

picture me im lovin you
[/coruse2]

Matthew Leverton

Attached are new recordings using the beta version of Audacity on my laptop (instead of my workstation).

Ron Novy

Cool... Nice job cleaning up those tracks Matthew... The only thing you missed was the DC offset which was probably introduced by your sound card, but I fixed it. I'm impressed by how well it all actually sounds... I'll get around to making the mix soon. I've just been really busy lately with other things, but I should have one soon.

Matthew Leverton

I don't even know what you mean by DC offset... I turned off the Windows 20 DB mic boost and recorded at 1.0. I didn't do any post-processing.

I think the biggest reason it was cleaner (than the previous recording with the new mic) is I switched to the latest version of Audacity, which works better with Vista. Or it could have been that I switched to my laptop, but I would have thought my $60 sound card in my workstation would be better than whatever crap is in my Dell...

I can record the other little non-verse bits this weekend.

Mark Oates

Here's my mix: Do This Little Dance 8-)

Matt Smith

Oh Yeah :) Now it's cooking

Matthew Leverton

The little dance remix sounds like 2 minutes of "Jesus lives ... an RPG." ???

Mark Oates

I heard "Judas little ants" :P

Ron Novy

Whoa... ;D I like that... I wasn't expecting it so I started laughing so hard I typed haha as my login name and of course that didn't work....

A boost of the highs in the vocal track might make the vocals a little more intelligible... It might need a de-esser after the boost but you should be able to hear what Matthew is actually saying... Instead of 'judas little bats'?

[edit]
Ok... Here is another mix with the new vocal tracks... I don't know what to think about it. I must have an ear infection or something because everything sounds muffled... including my voice. :-/

Monday song (10-09-08)

Let me know what you think. Is something missing or does anything need to change?

Paul whoknows

To Ron The Producer Novy:

BEAUTIFUL!, I can clearly hear every instrument in the mix ! I love this mix!
Can you upload a vocal-free version of this song? it sounds so good that I want to sing over it, it's karaoke time! ;D

Ron Novy

One question... Should the backup vocals be in the karaoke version?

Mark Oates

backup vocals should be in the "instrumental" version but not in the "karaoke" version. ;)

Ron Novy

OK I made two quick karaoke versions. One has the backup vocals and the other has no vocals at all...

I'm going to be leaving again so these might be the last ones I do for a while...

With backup vocals
Without backup vocals

Johan Halmén

Mark, that mix is awesome! Now if we only get the video done, too, for our conventional mix, it would look great to run all kinds of filters on the video and put your mix as the soundtrack.

Ron, there's still the midi trombone in the chorus. It shouldn't be there. Otherwise, I think it's good. Oh, the violine glissando is there in the very end end. I'd prefer Matthews voice only. Without the midi trombone, too.

Tobias Dammers

The drums still need work; the samples aren't CASIO anymore, but the patterns still are.
The MIDI horns need to be ditched.
The bass is still not completely tight everywhere.
The Ross Plays Keyboard fills are still in there.
Still love the guitar solo (Someone's been listening to Brian May. A lot.)
The vocals sound pretty good now. Almost like a real singer :-*

Johan Halmén

I'm afraid we won't get any drummer. Not even to reprogram the midi.

Tobias Dammers

Pity.

Ron Novy

It might take some time for me to get back and make another mix... I can easily fix the trombone and violin, but as for drums I'm clueless on what to do. Maybe Mark can throw some of his beats in there? ;) I once had BFD but it's long gone. I'm not sure if it would have the right kit though... If anyone comes up with anything it will certainly be a lot better then anything I could do.

Tobias Dammers

What you need for a decent drum track are:
- A good set of samples. freesounds.org, I think, has a few useable ones (notably the ones by 'ltibbits' and 'tic tac shut up' are quite decent, though heavy on the ambience). Good kits have multiple samples per instrument for different velocity layers (especially with cymbals, this becomes very audible, because a cymbal has a 'crash' point, above which the spectrum becomes a lot richer and less bell-like), but also for various playing techniques (rim shot, rim click, flam, roll, etc.).
- A sampler. Most DAW applications have a built-in sampler (e.g. Logic's EXS24), otherwise, I can recommend Battery (not free, but an excellent drum sampler).
- Some drum programming experience so that the tracks you program sound natural; actual drumming experience helps judging what is playable and what isn't. And of course time. Which is why I'm not doing it.

Ron Novy
Quote:

And of course time. Which is why I'm not doing it.

::) Yes, time. Something we all wish we had more of...

Arg! Damn the laws of physics! I'm selling time! ;D

Paul whoknows

Groove Agent is an amazing piece of software, is really useful to create real "natural" drums tracks.

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