TINS will be held this year Friday August 29 to Monday September 1. The official TINS '08 site is now online, go and register now!

What is TINS?

TINS is a speedhack-like competition where you have to write a game within a single weekend (72 hours), from scratch, using Allegro. To prevent cheating, some special, random restrictions will be generated and announced just before the start (e.g. last year's rules). During the weekend, all entrants maintain a log (e.g. last year's log) so you can see all the activity live. It's a good way to learn a lot about game programming in a short time.

Go check out the site and register

I'm surprised no one has posted yet, considering how many people have been anticipating the return of TINS! This sounds like fun if I have the time.

Shame I don't know if I'll have a time. But I surely will sign in if I manage to find time.

Well you know, it's summer, everybody is out.

Don't look at me. I'm officially out of these things nowadays.

gnolam: TINS is not Speedhack.

Great, it seems there is some interest in the competition. I know it's still a long way but don't worry, I'll post some reminders later.

I wish it were earlier. I hope I can participate.

On the site, the "about me" box, all formatting is stripped. Kind of annoying, but I suppose understandable. I don't know if you want to do anything about that or not.

Out of all the weekends of 2008, that might be one of the four that I'm actually scheduled to do something.

Sounds about right though, crappy year.

It's on my list to add support for a.cc-style markup tags, but it might take some time before I get around to implementing that properly. So don't hold your breath for it.

You might have better luck with speedhack, it should be fairly soon after TINS (Probably October)

Which is kinda unussual. But I think there were some reasons why TINS didn't happen in the spring (which if I remember correctly was the normal schedule).

I must admit i've always wanted to do one of these things but have been too busy. My excuse this year.. I'm moving places and already have parties scheduled from the wednesday to tuesday that weekend.

Yaaaay!

Matthew, can you announce yet what the planned range of dates for SpeedHack will be? I need to plan all my competitionage and holidays and stuff

TINS is up? Yay, it's been a long time! When was my last post here?
Anyway, no time for nostalgia. In the unlikely case I'll be free that weekend, I'm considering joining the competition myself, besides helping other people with graphics and music. In order to do that, I'll need a slave programmer to do the dirty work for me. Anyone willing to submit?

[edit]
Oh, how do the rules work in TINS? Are they suggested like in speedhack, or are they dictated?

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Right?

Not sure, a bit of both? I don't have a fancy online rule database like Matthew, but most rules that I have in my list were suggested here on the forums of a.cc. I have hundreds of different rules in my collection, from which a few will be picked randomly by a little perl script. Maybe I'll start another rule suggestion thread in a few weeks. I can always use more rules.

The reason is simple: I was too busy at work during spring. TINS isn't always at the same time of the year (neither is Speedhack)

Speedhack is known to rotate on a 13-14 month schedule. But thats just because its almost always one month or more late each year

Hmmm, hopefully I'll be free the weekend of the 29th, I don't really plan that far ahead, so...

Now wait a minute, "TINS is a SpeedHack like competition". TINS means Tins Is Not Speedhack is Speedhack like, sounds screwy to me. But I'll sign up but my college may keep me from being able to do it.

I'm considering to join. I've never entered TINS (or Speedhack). Depending on the rules I may or may not be able to submit an entry, but if I don't enter now...

I've read the FAQ and still I have to ask about the code reuse. Of course fair-game is the only thing that prevents someone from cheating. Then, I have some code here and there that might help, but it is a real mess. Even if I upload it, I doubt anyone might find it useful. Should I really, absolutely need to upload it?.

When will we have TINT?

As I said, there were reasons. Well if I think about it again I realised that both are moving, but I don't remember that they were both this close. Anyway this is just academical discussion (I was asking/commenting out of curiosity).

Yes, that's right, two or three years ago it was happening during august. And now it will be held in october (or between september and october) IIRC.

No worries, I wasn't upset or anything

14 people registered already, that's looking good. Of course the number of entrants doesn't say much about the number of entries that will be submitted in the end, but still...

Cool. So I can suggest some rules if I want to it's just that there's a rather small chance that they will be picked.

I think a poll system is more fun, though! Because even if everyone has shockingly contrastive tastes, the chance they will be satisfied with the rules is bigger than if those were picked randomly. How difficult would it be to pull out a basic poll system? I would offer to try if I still remembered much about coding...

And again, because I don't remember my C and I want to make my "offer" clear: I'm joining this year's competition myself, but I can't write code. So I'm hoping that someone pops up to do the code for me, which means getting the graphics and music and just needing to focus on the code. I know it usually works the other way 'round, with programmers doing everything and getting support from artists, but I like doing things the wrong way and I wanted to have my own game idea this time. It doesn't actually change much in the end... anyone up for the challenge?

Oh, and this time too, if I get the chance, I'll try to help other people lacking music and graphics. Just be sure to post/log on IRC!

I enjoyed Speedhack last year, so I'll probably go sign up for TINS right after this post.

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(link)

Heheh.. i love that. I told someone something like that. He should have known better too because he was a math major. Sometimes they miss simple things like irrational numbers...

TINS is not TINS is not TINS is not TINS is not TINS is not TINS is not TINS is not TINS is not TINS is not...

Bruce Perry: Western's ACM group has that comic on their Facebook page.

You mean TINT is not TINT is not TINT is not.... ?

I've seen that comic before, but I do not understand it, given that I do not know off the top of my head an approximation to the equation.

It is quite possible for an irrational number to have many zeros in succession, which thus would cause a computer to approximate it at 20. (I can prove this, but I think it is obvious.)

Interesting, though, that trying to put the equation into kcalc makes it crash.

No, I was merely expanding the current name, which is already TINT.

TINS =>
TINS is not Speedhack =>
TINS is not TINS is not Speedhack =>
TINS is not TINS is not TINS is not Speedhack =>
...

etcetera.

That doesn't work. The acronym doesn't recurse that way.

Indeed.

TINS == Tins Is Not Speedhack

notice how Tins isn't an acronym in the expanded form, so it can't recurse.

TINT could recurse that way, however, if we wanted it to.

Sure, but why would we want to?

Given the definition

TINS -> TINS is not SpeedHack

It recurses infinitely as follows:

TINS
-> TINS is not SpeedHack
-> TINS is not SpeedHack is not SpeedHack
-> TINS is not SpeedHack is not SpeedHack is not SpeedHack
-> ...

This cannot be varied. There is just one infinite expansion.

TINT, on the other hand, has two definitions:

TINT is not TINS
TINT is not TINT

It therefore recurses as follows:

TINT
-> TINT is not TINT
-> TINT is not TINT is not TINT
-> TINT is not TINS is not TINT is not TINT
-> TINT is not TINS is not SpeedHack is not TINT is not TINT

or

TINT
-> TINT is not TINS
-> TINT is not TINS is not SpeedHack
-> TINT is not TINS is not TINS is not SpeedHack
-> TINT is not TINS is not SpeedHack is not TINS is not SpeedHack
-> TINT is not TINS is not SpeedHack is not TINS is not SpeedHack is not SpeedHack

As you can see, there are many possible routes of expansion. There is a whole infinite tree of infinite expansions.

I vote for TINT to be founded.

Which is wrong, and silly.

TINS -> Tins Is Not Speedhack

Well, if that's so correct then get amarillion to fix the title of the TINS site, because it clearly has "TINS Is Not Speedhack", which is an infinite expansion. Not saying that's a bad thing, it seems to work fine for PHP. I've never seen it written unacronymed (Tins) besides here.

To make TINT more unique you should have to put together two games that somehow intertwine during the 72 hour period. Sort of like two competitions running parallel.;D

That would mean you having two computers, and writing on two keyboards at once.

Interest? This is the event of the year!

Surely I'm not the only with both a desktop and laptop computer.

Neither do I, but still I need both hands on one keyboard. Not to mention that I'm not suited for this type of multitasking.

I can play co-op on Halo 3 by myself... dexterous toes. But they aren't quite up to the task of using a keyboard. Also, I don't play well that way.

I can't be in this year, too much work. Sorry my baaaaad !

I'll add an easter egg to my game in your honor.

Heh, thanks !

This may be tough to pull off, most coders want to work on their own ideas.

That plan will probably have a higher chance of success.

OK, I'm in... or so I think, 'cause I've yet to show up on the Entrants page.

Who is FalseMasterJ? I am curious, because my sister goes to a Huntington University, though it isn't in West Virginia...

Is that so? I was hoping for better luck... I don't really mind, though, as long as you guys have good ideas.

I didn't enter last year's SpeedHack because I was afraid of not being up to the challenge. Actually, I may not be up to the challenge now either, but if I don't give it a try now, I'll never enter any SpeedHack/TINS.

Let's hope the rules turn out to be kind.

I had the same worry last year for Speedhack, that I wouldn't be up to completing an entry and that I was way out of my league. Although I may have been right concerning myself, you shouldn't let that discourage you.

I'm Johnathan Roatch, and I actually go to the Huntington University in Indiana.

I did sign up to allegro.cc a long time ago, but I haven't really done much of anything.
I plan to change that.

I could certainly use some help with music for my entry...

FalseMasterJ: How interesting, that is indeed the school my sister goes to. You doing CS?

Sure, I'll write down your order, would you like fries with that?

By the way, I just found my programming sl... friend! A friend of mine who just started studying CS the other day and never heard about allegro before stood up for the challenge. He'll need good training in these late days if we want any results, but hey, this is not about the results, but about the fun!

That means, I probably won't have time to do graphics for other people. Music is my speciality, I can do crappy rushed music, but if I try that with graphics it's unlikely anything good-looking will come out. We'll still see though.

Anyone else?

Shoot... I would join, but I lost my artist! He moved to Portland...

No, but my professors really want me to.

Anyway, I hope I'll do really well in TINS.

I'm sure you'll do ok. Last year's Speedhack was fun, and even if I don't much like my entry I did manage to finish it.

Great, who is he, has he signed up for TINS yet? Tell him to sign up for a.cc as well so we can prep him for the competition

With a.cc's project completion rates as they are, I do not think this the wisest course of preparation.

72 hours projects have a higher probability of being completed.

Compared to projects outside the competition you mean?

I never thought about that. The TINS/SH drop-out rates are actually quite low if you look at it that way.

Yay, I entered my first TINS!;D Hopefully I will be able to finish my entry, or at least make it playable.

I'm looking forward to this
And oh, I asked this on IRC without proper answers: what is the channel for TINS during the competition, if any?

Signed up. This will be the first time I (maybe) complete a project since my Tron game at school, so I'm excited.

Well, I wasn't gonna enter this year since I've sort of moved on to C#, but then I realized there's Allegro for C# too. So, I'll give it a shot.

Also, is there any possibility of TINS/SpeedHack t-shirts in the future? It'd be a good way to spread the word and raise some money, geek cred aside.

I would buy one of those t-shirt.

Could always add something to the cafepress store

Maybe use the procedes to give the winner[s] stuff from the store?

Wow, it's all of the items you could ever want... with a tiny, tiny A on them?

I like the idea of giving away some merchandise, though. We just need some more interesting merchandise in there.

Sadly that's all the stuff cafepress has.

And if anyone wants to straighten out the stuff on there to make it look better, let me know and I'll give you access (if you can do that at cafepress...)

Allegro C# sucks. Any wrappers I've tried for it mutate the API and aren't even consistent in it. Differing naming and capitalization conventions, etc. It was a mess last time I checked.

Given this is the 5th TINS, why not have a special prize for the best TINS entry over the last five years?

Allegro Thong

I'm deeply disturbed by this.

Just as I feared.

I guess I could try making my own wrapper...

Those can't be made in america, they only go up to size 12

Thats what happens when you press "select all"

It would be nice if there were more designs for the logo - something that actually says "Allegro" instead of just an A next to Alex. How many people would actually know what the A and Alex signified besides us anyway?

Sorry, but I don't think I'll join TINS this year, there are only two weeks left to put up personal library code and I'm not very good at speed coding.

Feel free to design one.

Um, the whole point is you write everything as you go... not to have a wealth of libraries to start off with right away.

Well, he's referring to the code reuse parameter. You can reuse your own code if you post it online 2 weeks before the competition.

Did you participate last time? If so, you might still have some such personal library code already uploaded

That's the point, it's how we can spot each other in the real world. Doesn't everyone here go around with the Allegro logo plastered onto all of their clothes?

Does this mean I can re-submit my Speedhack 2007 entry, if it fits the rules?

How many people would actually know what the "Allegro" and Alex signified besides us anyway?

I know that, but the point of that rule isn't to go out and write a full on engine two weeks before the contest and post it. Its in case you have find something on the internet that you think you can hack together, or have found old game (could be your own, might not be) you might be able to modify to meet the rules. Its supposed to be a fair advantage for everyone. So writing your own code for your contest entry and then posting online two weeks in advance doesn't seem to me the purpose of that rule, or in the spirit of the competition.

Sure you can. This doesn't mean it will do well or is a good idea.

Indeed. The rules state that you have to disclose what code was re-used, and this is taken into account during voting.

Also, I would consider re-using somebody else's code superior to re-using your own code, it requires more skill.

Nice idea. The TINS website isn't designed to handle that, but we could do it in a thread here on allegro.cc. This is something for after the competition though.

Why would I want to rewrite everything I've already written in a re-usable manner? Also, I said I'm not very good at speed coding - by the time I had all my nice reuseable code rewritten, TINS would be over already.

No, I haven't joined any of the timed coding competitions so far. I also haven't finished merging my code base into an organized library base yet. Other projects have higher priority right now, that's all.

Only on my pajamas.

My point was just that something more informative would be nice. The people that only get to see the A and Alex might think we're in an alligator wrestling club or on a sports team.

It is not a full engine, but neither is it something I would like to code without. It would be available for anyone else to use if they felt so inclined - however, I said that what I would put up if I was joining the competition isn't ready, nor do I want to make that a priority right now. If I'm going to join one of these competitions, I don't want to rewrite everything that I've done so far if I don't need to.

Allegro / TINS / Speedhack t-shirt design thread - Post your own designs!

If I'm not mistaken that rule is there for you to submit basic framework for example - the code that sets up the scree, loads your resources etc. So when the compo starts you don't need to bother with these things.

Once again, I'll move on September (9 times in two years ) so I'm not sure if I'll can join TINS this year.

Yes. Use Allegro.pas instead (may be you can use it with Oxigene or the Mono version of Free Pascal but don't ask me, I didn't test it ).

Starting my own, see http://www.allegro.cc/forums/thread/597224.

Oh, I had an idea that might be interesting
What about a Minor Hack after the competition, for the ones who couldn't make it (to the first place or to the competition at all) to have a little consolation? I'd sure like to try one of those out as well. Though if that happens it'll hardly happen in a time I'll be able to do it considering my timezone now...

I'm not sure if this has been asked, but will we be allowed to use 4.9 for TINS? Or just the stable Allegro branch?

I think any allegro goes, doesn't it? Dusts off Allegro 1.0

Mayday! I have registered weeks ago but I'm still not listed among the participants .

Is it because I have a 'ö' in my name?

Have you tried to log in? that solved it for me.

fyi, while you guys will be programming in your basements, i will be partying8-)

You know, its not really a party if you're the only one there.

No doubt he'll have friends with him.

why the bitter comments, arent you happy to spend the weekend programming away some craptastic game ?

My options this week are actually "Program some craptastic enterprise system management system", or spend the weekend with 1100 of my closest friends, and about 5 of my best friends at Fragapalooza. I leave sometime before noon!

And really, no need to be so defensive. you need to learn to take a joke! If you can't take it, don't dish it out

I asked Elias if he thought Allegro 4.9 was ready for this type of usage yet, and he said no.

So I will say that it is allowed, but I definitely recommend against it. You'll have no recourse if you run into a showstopper bug in allegro 4.9, four hours before the deadline. That will just be tough luck for you .

I wish that was all that I needed too, but apparently it's not . Good thing I noticed this a long time before the competition starts.

Any clues to what might be wrong?

The only thing I can think of is that I have an 'ö' in my user name .

I dont spend enough time responding to messages directed to me asap to care, notice the time lapses ?

It just seems odd that you spend so much of your time here asserting your coolness and how not-a-geek you are, on a board that is ostensibly for geeks. I mean, it makes you seem insecure or something!

It should be able to handle the ö. I can't fix it right now (away from home) but I'll try to solve this problem this weekend.

But that means us Linux users might have trouble compiling all the entries. Can the two versions of Allegro coexist? i.e. are the headers and library files named differently? They never have been in the past with Allegro.

Allegro 5 installs along side Allegro 4 with no issues.

i never said i wasnt8-)

Just like many others here.

one of us, one of us, one of us

Thank you very much, I would hate to miss TINS .

You don't seem to be there yet. Or are you Team Darkbits?

Anyway, I wanted to ask this something I never had clear... is there any restriction to teams at all? If someone actually manages to gather a whole development team to rush a game in a single weekend, would that be allowed by the rules?

It wouldn't make a difference, I don't know if there are any rules on this for a speedhack but in general more people != faster completion or better.

It's not as simple as that, nor the other way around. A properly organized large group can be a lot more effective than the sum of its parts (the opposite is also true).

In game development you only need a large development group for content, which is something these games typically have in fairly short suply

Yes, it's allowed. This has actually happened in the past. "Ballz" by Team darkbits could be an example, or "cupid" by Shawn Hargreaves & co in SH 2002. Ballz scored very well, and I think cupid pretty much blew everything else out of the competition.

If you have a good team, then usually you have a better chance to getting a good ranking. On the other hand, pulling a good team together is a difficult skill in itself. It seems good teams are so rare here on allegro.cc that I think they should be encouraged. Plus, with four scoring categories, you usually don't win in more than one category, even as a team.

edit:
You may remember Teamhack '01, a competition that was organized specifically for teams. It was reasonably successful, the only problem was that, a given number of participants team up to produce a much lower number of entries. We got only four entries for that competition.