Star Trek XI teaser trailer
axilmar

Here:

http://trekmovie.com/2008/01/18/review-star-trek-teaser-trailer/

Personally, I can't wait long enough for the new Star Trek...although I know it will bring much controversy and Star Trek hardcore fans will pick it apart in every way possible...

nonnus29

I'm already pissed off about the story. Who wants to see young Spock and Kirk? Didn't they learn from the debacle "Enterprise" that no one cares about Star Trek pre-history?

But then on the other hand if the story goes forward any appreciable amount there's been so much tampering with time travel that the future is polluted too.

What they need to do is reset the Star Trek universe; make a re-imagining like BSG and Batman Begins. Or retcon the whole thing and we find out that Kirk and Spock were actually gay lovers.

Or, just have a glass of Tranja:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvpDT_zs4Js

Mark Oates
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I'm already pissed off about the story. Who wants to see young Spock and Kirk?

Me.

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Didn't they learn from the debacle "Enterprise" that no one cares about Star Trek pre-history?

"Enterprise" was one of the best Star Trek series in terms of story and production quality. Granted, the theme song made me want to vomit and it took almost 2 seasons before I stopped expecting Scott Bacula to quantum leap off the bridge, but once I got over those two things I have to admit I enjoyed it alot!

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What they need to do is reset the Star Trek universe; make a re-imagining like BSG and Batman Begins.

Based on the trailer, it looks like that's exactly what they're doing! ;)

Anyway, Star Trek is badass. bottom line. I can't wait to see how it will turn out. Between this and the new Street Fighters I can't contain myself!! :o

axilmar

I hope the new Star Trek is not too shallow, too superficial. One thing that always excited me about Trek is the philosophical topics it explored.

Vanneto

Its gonna suck. I can feel it. I mean, nothing new cant suck. :P

Goalie Ca
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Didn't they learn from the debacle "Enterprise" that no one cares about Star Trek pre-history?

I thought during the last season they finally figure it out. Then they cancelled it. It gave me a sort of Trek blue balls!

Mark Oates

Yea, that last season was the best of any season of any Star Trek, imo, but oddly it had the worst ratings. :-/

Neil Black
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"Enterprise" was one of the best Star Trek series in terms of story and production quality.

I wouldn't call it the best, but I certainly didn't hate it. But that damn theme song is still stuck in my head.

Mark Oates

In my head it's sung by the guy from south park, like in the sad version of the team America theme. :P

nonnus29
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Yea, that last season was the best of any season of any Star Trek, imo, but oddly it had the worst ratings. :-/

Maybe because you are WRONG and it was the worst season EVAR!!!11

The whole 'Evil Scott Bacula' story arc was just... Blah.

23yrold3yrold
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Didn't they learn from the debacle "Enterprise" that no one cares about Star Trek pre-history?

WTF is pre-history anyway? Like, the stuff that came before history? O_o

nonnus29

Guys, come on. Pre-history refers to any time in the story that takes place BEFORE the original Star Trek series. Except Star Trek: First Contact, that was the greatest Star Trek movie EVAR!!!11

:P

OICW

Sadly enough the Insurgency and Nemesis sucked the balls of a dead dog. :-/

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They probably figured, with the popularity of New Voyages, that young(er) Kirk & Spock is exactly what everyone wants to see.
Personally I'm neutral on the issue as long as the story is good - which I'm somewhat sceptical about (if it's really Romulans go back in time to kill young Kirk, old Nimoy Spock follows them?), but we'll see.
That trailer sucked, by the way.

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What they need to do is reset the Star Trek universe; make a re-imagining like BSG and Batman Begins.

Not sure about the "re-imagining" bit... it works well for the two examples you mention, but I'm not sure going back to the premise and tossing out the past 40 years of Star Trek and start from scratch will work well. In a way I suppose I'd consider TNG as a sortof re-imagined Star Trek and I think they did it properly then. On the other hand, if it's Star Trek without some of the goofy dated 60's special effects and look-and-feel, I'll be fine with it. We'll see.

As for Enterprise (I liked it ok enough), there's some very good episodes but many more where I just thought "meh, done better in <some TNG/Voyager/DS9 episode>". Series 1 was ok-ish, but the Temporal Cold War was a bad idea that should have been dropped on the cutting room floor or at the end of the pilot at worst. Series 2 didn't really go anywhere and every other episode seems to be "Archer gets captured by some aliens who beat the crap out of him, then the Enterprise comes in and rescues him in a big firefight".
One episode that struck me was the Cogenitor episode. I was completely expecting the aliens to go OMFG YOU BASTARDS YOU! DIE! DIE! DIE! ZAP-ZAP-KABLOINGK!. Instead, they expressed their sadness and... left. Now, in an TNG episode, that's what I'd have expected to happen and I was a bit startled: at what point did Star Trek go from the one being the norm to the other being the norm? Or am I just nostalgic?
Series 3, well, the less said the better. Might have been ok SF, but it was horrible Star Trek. BSG does the same thing much better. Series 4 was a step in the right direction but it was too little too late, too many people had decided the series sucked and stopped watching.

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Sadly enough the Insurgency and Nemesis sucked the balls of a dead dog. :-/

Actually, there was a lot about Insurrection that I liked more than First Contact, maybe because all I really wanted was more TNG episodes. Sadly, it did nothing to rectify my main gripe about First Contact, which was the new Enterprise. I couldn't care less about Kirk dieing at the end of Generations, but the destruction of the Enterprise made me really sad (more so because there was no plot reason to do it, unlike in Search for Spock).
Nemesis would have been a hell of a lot better if they'd kept in some of the deleted scenes and stuck with some of the original plans where they showed Shinzon earlier in the movie. Everyone already knew from reviews that he was supposed to be a Picard clone anyway.

OICW

Oh it was called Insurrection. Well I liked the premise, but the ending was, was ... I'd better be quiet. As far as Nemesis goes it would be quite good SF, but it was not good 'ol Star Trek - which I don't mind anyway. It was rather full of action, which is what you don't expect from Star Trek, since their ships are not meant to fight.

When I was younger I loved that show. I loved all those gadgets they have and all those particles of the week. I haven't mind beam weapons and transporters. But now I don't know - maybe I'm spoiled by Homeworld and new BSG series, or just by some knowledge of the physics. I just don't have that good feeling when I watch Star Trek anymore - not when I see space battles especially.

Richard Phipps

Picard is still the best captain (and actor), so it's a pity the films weren't better.

I'd like to see some of the best TNG episodes redone with modern CGI for the exterior ship fights and planets. If done subtly I think that would look cool. :)

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As far as Nemesis goes it would be quite good SF, but it was not good 'ol Star Trek

As I said, it would have been better if they'd kept the deleted scenes in.

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maybe I'm spoiled by Homeworld and new BSG series, or just by some knowledge of the physics. I just don't have that good feeling when I watch Star Trek anymore - not when I see space battles especially.

Well, the wonky physics, to me, is part of the "suspension of disbelief". Space battles are not Star Trek's strength, though the battles in Search for Spock and Voyage Home were pretty good. Then again, they weren't the Voyager-style "fire phasers"/"shields at x%!"/random explosion with lots of sparks and debris/"shields at <x%!"/more phasers variety.
The most effective major battle was probably the Wolf 359 one from Best of Both Worlds - which wasn't shown except through intership viewscreen communication and all the more effective for it.
I quite like BSG too (that is, the new BSG), but for different reasons than I like Star Trek.

@Phipps: nothing to add! :D

axilmar
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One episode that struck me was the Cogenitor episode. I was completely expecting the aliens to go OMFG YOU BASTARDS YOU! DIE! DIE! DIE! ZAP-ZAP-KABLOINGK!. Instead, they expressed their sadness and... left.

For me, "Cogenitor" was the best episode of Enterprise and one of the best episodes in Star Trek. My 2nd favorite episode from Enterprise was "Dead Stop". Enterprise Season 2 was quite a good season for Star Trek...it reminded me a lot of TNG. The moment I heard Archer say "we've been recalled", I said "oh my god, they are going to ruin this"... and they did.

Generally, I am opposed into turning Star Trek into a space opera. There are other series more suitable for that. Star Trek is more about exploring the unknown and making a philosophical debate on human nature on top of the things that are found out during exploration. That's the reason I dislike DS9, although I recognize people might find it more down-to-Earth than the other series.

My worry for this movie is that it's going to be average, deadlocking Paramount/CBS into a loop: do we let ST go or we invest in it further? if the new movie is a total success, we are going to see ST resurrected...if it is a total flop, someone might rescue ST by buying the rights off Paramount/CBS really cheap. But if it is average, then the execs at Paramount/CBS will not know what to do with it, and that it's gonna be a big problem.

Star Trek must go on, because it's the only series that puts the topic "space, the final frontier" on the table. The rest, with a few notable exceptions, of the televised so-called "sci-fi" is nothing but a soap opera in space.

gnolam
axilmar said:

Star Trek is more about exploring the unknown and making a philosophical debate on human nature on top of the things that are found out during exploration.

Oh? I could have sworn it was all about funny foreheads and technobabble, with some occasional awkward, hackneyed social commentary tacked on once in a while out of some sense of obligation. ;)

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For me, "Cogenitor" was the best episode of Enterprise and one of the best episodes in Star Trek.

In case it wasn't clear from my previous post, I agree!

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Enterprise Season 2 was quite a good season for Star Trek...

Hmm... not sure I agree there... at least I don't remember it as being quite good. Let's see,

  • Shockwave Part 2 - Lots of Temporal Cold War crap and utterly predictable.

  • Carbon Creek - Ok. Not great, but ok.

  • Minefield - Quite good! Spoiled a bit by the anti-cloak technology that they conveniently have available, good otherwise.

  • Dead Stop - Again pretty good, though the plot feels a bit recycled.

  • A Night in Sickbay - I actually enjoyed this one the first time I watched it despite the forced Archer/T'Pol sexual innuendo.

  • Marauders - Dull.

  • The Seventh - Dull.

  • The Communicator - Hmm... somewhat interesting, feels like a mix of some TOS stories and First Contact from TNG (the episode, not the movie), which was quite a bit better. Also suffers for being one of the "Archer gets captured and beated the crap beaten out of him by aliens" episodes.

  • Singularity - We've done the "crew becomes erratic and the ship is about to be destroyed" a few times already. Enjoyable, but nothing new.

  • Vanishing Point - Like it, nice take!

  • Precious Cargo - "The Perfect Mate" or "Elaan of Troyus", only worse.

  • The Catwalk - Not too bad, but I had the strong feeling that I'd seen this episode before on Voyager...

  • Dawn - Darmok, except a thousand times worse (Darmok is one of my all-time favorite episodes).

  • Stigma - Ok I guess, a bit forced.

  • Cease Fire - I actually liked this one a lot, mainly because I liked the Vulcan/Andorian conflict in Enterprise.

  • Future Tense - TARDIS anyone? Anyway, more Temporal Cold War crap and too little explanation in the end. I have a feeling they were planning to use this to set up something else but never got round to it.

  • Canamar - Archer&the aliens again. Yawn.

  • The Crossing - Reminded me a bit of Power Play, which I thought was better.

  • Judgement - an homage to Star Trek VI. Too bad I only managed to be annoyed at it.

  • Horizon - Nice for being one of the few Mayweather stories

  • The Breach - Ok.

  • Cogenitor - Superb, mainly because it breaks away from so many of the things I'd come to expect from Enterprise (ie, aliens opening fire as soon as you step on their toes). Felt like a TNG episode.

  • Regeneration - hard not to like, but if you've never seen Star Trek before it'll be impossible to understand. Unless you're willing to accept it as a prequel of things to come later.

  • First Flight - Nice, but I didn't buy Bakula's performance as the younger Archer, which weakened the episode quite a bit.

  • Bounty - urgh. Archer & the alien again.

  • The Expanse - triple uber-urgh.

So I guess it's really a bout 50/50 for me. If I pick and choose the episodes I like it's a good series. ;)

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it's the only series that puts the topic "space, the final frontier" on the table

I was so pissed off that they didn't put that in the Enterprise opening. On the other hand, they had a promo of Bakula doing the lines and considering his abysmal reading it's probably good they didn't.

(edited: corrected one episode title)

Mark Oates
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A Night in Sickbay - I actually enjoyed this one the first time I watched it despite the forced Archer/T'Pol sexual innuendo.

The writers mentioned that in the special features. They said it upset some viewers by compromising the integrity of the Captain Archer character.

meh, I thought it was funny. Dr. Phlox was my favorite doc. Dr. Crusher was always a whiny, which explains her kid.

axilmar
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Oh? I could have sworn it was all about funny foreheads and technobabble, with some occasional awkward, hackneyed social commentary tacked on once in a while out of some sense of obligation.

Even like that, it was head & shoulders above anything else.

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I was so pissed off that they didn't put that in the Enterprise opening. On the other hand, they had a promo of Bakula doing the lines and considering his abysmal reading it's probably good they didn't.

I agree. Since "Enterprise" was supposed to be the first trips of mankind outside the solar system, the moto "space, is the final frontier" should have been in the opening.

But the whole show did not have any focus. The producers tried to dump Star Trek down...that's why you get a soft rock ballad for the opening theme.

Richard Phipps

Man, I'm not such a fan that I can list the episodes like that!!

Can someone explain the plot to the Cogenitor episode? I'm not sure if I have seen it..

Mark Oates
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Man, I'm not such a fan that I can list the episodes like that!!

About a week ago I just finished watching all of the episodes of Voyager. 8-) A thoroughly enjoyable experience, although I still think Janeway has a man voice.

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I'm not such a fan that I can list the episodes like that!!

You've heard of episode lists, I presume? ;)

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Can someone explain the plot to the Cogenitor episode? I'm not sure if I have seen it..

Not great, but one of the first google hits anyway: http://www.treknation.com/reviews/enterprise/cogenitor.shtml

Richard Phipps

Oh, I do remember it. Pretty good, but disturbing..

nonnus29
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About a week ago I just finished watching all of the episodes of Voyager. 8-) A thoroughly enjoyable experience, although I still think Janeway has a man voice.

I really liked Voyager (and not just for the oboobvious reasons). I thought Kate Mulgrew made a great Captain. She had the Catherine Hepburn voice going on. Plus there were some really good episodes. Some of the regular characters got on my nerves, but overall it was pretty good.

Neil Black

Voyager was a good show. I wish I could find it on TV.

le_y_mistar

Bragga has manage to fuck up to many star treks, i hope they get some fresh minds into the story and direction, also agreeing with nonus's take, a re-imagined show would be awesome.

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Plus there were some really good episodes.

And unfortunately each one was followed by two absolute stinkers!
There were times when I wondered why I kept watching Voyager and usually one of the good episodes came by and sustained me through two weeks of horridness.

The real problem with Voyager is that it really didn't go anywhere. Well, it went "home" apparently, and got there in the last minute of the last episode. One episode sooner would have been nice...

Goalie Ca

Well the real problem with voyager is that they made it up as they went along. It would have made tons more sense to create a gigantic story arc from the start and treat the whole series like that.

The most terrible episodes in voyager were self-righteous and resolved using jargon.

Steve++

No matter how good it is, it will flop like any other movie without big stars.

Mark Oates
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it will flop like any other movie without big stars

like Star Wars? ;) (Harrison Ford excluded)

axilmar
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Well the real problem with voyager is that they made it up as they went along. It would have made tons more sense to create a gigantic story arc from the start and treat the whole series like that.

I don't understand why everyone wants a story arc. Star Trek is not about story arcs. You can't easily go to 'where no man has ever gone before' if there is a story arc involved. DS9 did not go 'where no man has ever gone before' for that reason exactly.

OICW
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DS9 did not go 'where no man has ever gone before' for that reason exactly.

Becase DS9 was set on a space station.

Arthur Kalliokoski

If the orbit suffered from precession they could go "where no man has gone before EXACTLY"

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I don't understand why everyone wants a story arc. Star Trek is not about story arcs.

I personally don't mind story arcs, even if they're very loose story arcs (actually, those might be better). TNG had arcs that spanned several episodes across different series (the Klingon High Council/Worf's loss of honour/Alexander arc, for instance).
It is true that Voyager could have been better if there were some sort of plan for the series. As it was, it very quickly settled down in a routine where early plot points were forgotten (Starfleet/Maquis conflict, supply shortage, finite number of shuttles in shuttlebay) and each episode started where the previous one had started as well (aka, the Reset Button).

The shuttlecraft were the really annoying part though. I recon Voyager only had a crew of 150 because they needed the rest of the space for a cargo load of shuttlecraft, which they had been supposed to deliver to the Maquis when they found them (because, you know, Starfleet really was helping those terrorist bastards).

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DS9 did not go 'where no man has ever gone before' for that reason exactly.

Well, DS9 was supposed to be the place where everyone went who hadn't been there before!

Neil Black
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If the orbit suffered from precession they could go "where no man has gone before EXACTLY"

;D

OICW
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It is true that Voyager could have been better if there were some sort of plan for the series. As it was, it very quickly settled down in a routine where early plot points were forgotten (Starfleet/Maquis conflict, supply shortage, finite number of shuttles in shuttlebay) and each episode started where the previous one had started as well (aka, the Reset Button).

Now I realised that BSG (the new one) style would fit well on Voyager. There are story arcs that are really long. They are heading towards ultimate goal - reaching Earth and still are able to make subplots etc. And they tend to keep consistency between episodes - decreasing number of survivors, supply shortage etc.

Mark Oates
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I recon Voyager only had a crew of 150 because they needed the rest of the space for a cargo load of shuttlecraft

To their defense, they were able to build shuttlecrafts very quickly. After all, they built the Delta Flyer in less than one episode (the Extreme Risk "space race" episode) and that was about 4 times the size of a shuttle and experimental. There was never a point (as far as I recall) where they used multiple shuttles, so I always assumed that they just built a new one when they blew up another.

Neil Black

I always thought the Delta Flyer was about the same size as a shuttle.

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Now I realised that BSG (the new one) style would fit well on Voyager. There are story arcs that are really long. They are heading towards ultimate goal - reaching Earth and still are able to make subplots etc. And they tend to keep consistency between episodes - decreasing number of survivors, supply shortage etc.

Yes, they do a lot of things right on BSG.

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To their defense, they were able to build shuttlecrafts very quickly.

That, or the entire shuttlebay was one giant replicator. "Sorry Tom, no desert today, gotta save some power. Computer: one shuttlecraft."

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After all, they built the Delta Flyer in less than one episode (the Extreme Risk "space race" episode) and that was about 4 times the size of a shuttle and experimental.

Yes... a starship that is low on supplies manages to design and build an improved shuttlecraft from scratch in under one episode. It also had improved fire power. I think I used to call it "Pocket Defiant" back in the day.

Mark Oates

well, as far as the interior goes, it was much bigger than a shuttle. Although, the size of the exterior changed from episode to episode (writer boofs). ;)

http://www.allegro.cc/files/attachment/594290

Here's an in-depth analysis of the size of the Delta Flyer

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"Sorry Tom, no desert today, gotta save some power. Computer: one shuttlecraft."

;D

OICW
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That, or the entire shuttlebay was one giant replicator. "Sorry Tom, no desert today, gotta save some power. Computer: one shuttlecraft."

;D except that their replicators malfunctioned or what, because there was that weird alien who cooked them. I'd believe that with functioning replicators Voyager could survive 7 years in Delta Quadrant, but w/o them I think BSG is more realistic in this aspect. However it's Star Trek, I know.

Besides no-one ever said how long that episode was.

Mark Oates
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except that their replicators malfunctioned or what, because there was that weird alien who cooked them.

They cooked real food to conserve power, and kept replicator use to a minimum. Nelix was the cook and also converted a cargo bay to an "aeroponics bay" to grow food.

nonnus29

Okay, everyone take a deep breath and repeat after me:

You can't apply logic to Star Trek!!!

;D

Neil Black
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"Sorry Tom, no desert today, gotta save some power. Computer: one shuttlecraft."

Sigged.

EDIT:

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Okay, everyone take a deep breath and repeat after me:

You can't apply logic to Star Trek!!!

Your logic is flawed.

OICW

Yep, I forgot. It's so damn long I have seen it. Well having that small farm in a cargo bay to supply only 150 hungry necks is believable.

Edgar Reynaldo

Desserts taste good. Deserts are sandy.

axilmar

Paramount released a more detailed video:

http://www.paramount.com/startrek/

Andrei Ellman

Looking into my chrystal ball, I predict the following...

The film will be mostlly based on drama. The bit about the inauguration of the Enterprise and Future-Spock coming from the future is just an attempt to inject some Sci-Fi and some good old fasioned Trek into the film. It will mostly explore how Kirk, Spock and McCoy got to know eachother, and how Kirk loses his virginity.

The film will be set at Starfleet academy. Kirk will be shy and lack the confidence and machismo we've come to expect of him. McCoy befriends him and becomes his mentor. He finds that Kirk is too shy to ask the girl of his dreams out. McCoy gives him encouragement but Kirk does not get very far. Meanwhile, McCoy falls in love with a visitor and has a one-night stand, but when the visitor leaves, he's heartbroken. Spock finds this fascinating, and in the process of finding out how McCoy feels, inadvertently hurts his feelings. By this time, Future-Spock arrives from the future. He convinces Kirk, Spock and McCoy that they have to learn to work together as the future depends on it. He mind-melds with Kirk. This has a profound effect on Kirk when he realises what Future-Spock knows about him. Kirk then 'gets the girl' setting a precedent for many more of his exploits.

Other things to look out for include:

  • The only characters from other Startrek series making cameo appearances will be:

  • Archer

  • Dax

  • We find out the reason why either the Suliban, Xindi, Denobulans or any of the other 'new' races from Enterprise weren't present in future eras of Star-Trek.

  • Despite having different actors for the main characters, the film turns out to be a faithful depiction of what the Star-Trek universe and it's characters would have been like just before the original series. The nit-pickers that constantly whinge about inconsistencies will still find a few niggles, but even they will appreciate the enormous effort that went into making it as close to what the Star-Trek universe would have been like.

  • [/list]

    AE.

    OICW

    Anyway I think I'll give it a try. After a long time it looks like this new Star Trek won't have too much technobabble. And ST with less technobabble is good ST, because everytime I hear it I feel quite awkward.

    {"name":"mff_life_38.jpg","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/9\/6\/966175eb828a8bd7e1541da0696103c1.jpg","w":700,"h":300,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/9\/6\/966175eb828a8bd7e1541da0696103c1"}mff_life_38.jpg
    In movie (after five minutes): According to my calculations a time shift can occur when the wormhole passes through a neutron star.
    In reality (after whole life): Got it, but it works for spherically symetric wormhole and neutron star with zero mass.
    (A courtesy of Daniel Scheirich)

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    The only characters from other Startrek series making cameo appearances will be

    Gods, I hope not. There'll be a cameo of the guy playing Kirk in the New Voyages fan films though (linky)...

    I'll judge when I see the film, but I'm carefully optimistic that it'll break away from the patterns that has pervaded the past few Star Trek series and movies.

    ReyBrujo

    I promised myself not to watch any new Star Trek movie/series until they make a new movie about TNG.

    OICW
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    I promised myself not to watch any new Star Trek movie/series until they make a new movie about TNG.

    You mean with Enterprise NCC 17-01 D? I don't know how First Contact, Insurrection and Nemesis are categorized. By the way two last weren't of much quality IMO. And there would be no Riker as he got his own command and if I'm not mistaken Diana went with him.

    ReyBrujo

    Personally, and as I already said before, I think some two-hour episodes of TNG are much better than most of the movies released under the Star Trek brand.

    axilmar

    Star Trek can not be made justice in movie format. Movies are 2 hours maximum! you can't present as many details as required to make a Star Trek story work. Star Wars can be a movie, because it's different: SW is soap opera, and SW viewers do not care about the details so much as ST viewers.

    I've said it many times and I will say it again: there needs to be a new Star Trek series, in the style of TNG. A series that is bright, celebratory, a series that gives inspiration and hope, a series that displays humanity's potential to the fullest.

    I know that this is against current TV standards. But the audience will view whatever is thrown to them. A series that is dark, sinister and shows the bad side of humanity will initially cause curiosity...like the Big Brother or any other reality show. But, in the end, people would gain nothing from it, and I am certain that the ratings will not be as good as in the initial episodes.

    On the other hand, a series that is bright, hopeful, celebratory etc (see above) will initially filter out all the viewers that are going to watch it only out of curiosity, but from then on it can only gain audience, not lose audience. The hardcore trekkers will be there, and as the quality of the show will grow, people will be attracted to it. Eventually, such a show will only rise to the top of ratings, just like TNG did.

    gnolam
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    I've said it many times and I will say it again: there needs to be a new Star Trek series, in the style of TNG. A series that is bright, celebratory, a series that gives inspiration and hope, a series that displays humanity's potential to the fullest.

    It would be a short series then.

    Mark Oates
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    A series that is bright, celebratory, a series that gives inspiration and hope, a series that displays humanity's potential to the fullest.

    Just to help support your point, I found this video which has the last 10 seconds of each episode the first season, each episode ends with a happy, inspirational vibe. :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SvAEhiOsv0

    ReyBrujo

    Well, as far as I know every American series end with a happy, inspirational vibe.

    Andrei Ellman
    axilmar said:

    I've said it many times and I will say it again: there needs to be a new Star Trek series, in the style of TNG. A series that is bright, celebratory, a series that gives inspiration and hope, a series that displays humanity's potential to the fullest.

    In other words, Gene Roddenbury needs to be brought back from the dead.

    When TNG first started, it presented a very idealistic version of the future. Roddenbury died about halfway thru TNG. Then, along came DS9 ("To boldly stay where noone has stayed before") which had a somewhat darker side to it (all those Ferengi/Cardassian sub-plots and focus on other civilisations that did not share the Federation's ideals).

    Meanwhile, along came Stargate that showed humanity with all it's rough edges. Everyone liked O'Neil's character and could more readily identify with it. The current producers became jealous and realised the only way to place Stargate-like humans into Startrek was to make a prequel - thus Enterprise was born. Captain Archer seems like a ripoff of O'Neil (I can just picture Archer praying on his hands and knees to a lifesized poster of O'Neil while shouting "Asses! Asses! Asses!").

    Needless to say, I reckon the first Warp-drive to be invented in the real-world could be powered by attatching a solenoid-magnet to the spinning-corpse of Roddenbury to generate the required electricity.

    AE.

    nonnus29

    Did anyone else ever notice in the first 5 minutes of the first episode of TNG (Far Point Station?) there's a male crewman walking around in a skirt?

    Edit; here it is: look at the dude walking around the corner at :05

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgWdcFLLi4w

    He's wearing some kind of girly boots too.... Come on Gene, what were you thinking?

    StevenVI

    Funny. I just started watching the series the other day and I actually did notice that. :P

    I've been complaining to my friends a lot about how the first season really sucks. I had a dream the other night where I was explaining to Riker my theory that the show didn't get good until he grew a beard.

    Archon
    Quote:

    I've been complaining to my friends a lot about how the first season really sucks. I had a dream the other night where I was explaining to Riker my theory that the show didn't get good until he grew a beard.

    Perhaps you had actually sent that dream message back to the year 1988 and Frake complied! ;D

    axilmar
    Quote:

    In other words, Gene Roddenbury needs to be brought back from the dead.

    It's like your saying that nobody believes in the idealistic version of the future any more. I don't think so, many people want that. We all want a better tomorrow, don't we?

    Quote:

    When TNG first started, it presented a very idealistic version of the future. Roddenbury died about halfway thru TNG. Then, along came DS9 ("To boldly stay where noone has stayed before") which had a somewhat darker side to it (all those Ferengi/Cardassian sub-plots and focus on other civilisations that did not share the Federation's ideals).

    Actually, the darker side was Berman's and Braga's idea of sci-fi. There is a line somewhere in DS9 against the idealistic vision of Rodenberry.

    Idealistic does not mean perfect though. There were huge problems in Rodenberry's Star Trek universe, but the difference with B&B's universe is that people were trying not to be a$$holes.

    Quote:

    Meanwhile, along came Stargate that showed humanity with all it's rough edges. Everyone liked O'Neil's character and could more readily identify with it. The current producers became jealous and realised the only way to place Stargate-like humans into Startrek was to make a prequel - thus Enterprise was born.

    I haven't watched Stargate, but if it is anything like the new BSG, then not everyone would like mr O-Neil. I would be excluded.

    I don't understand why people need to identify with the characters of a show for it to be successful. Did anyone identify with Picard or Data? no. But TNG had the highest ratings. Does anybody identify with Bond? Superman? Batman? DC or Marvel superheros? Ten-Ten? Lucky Luke? Asterix? Indiana Jones? Luke Skywalker? The Terminator? John Rambo? Matlok? Bruce Lee? Kirk? Spock? nope. Nobody identifies with those characters...but they are highly successful.

    The idea that a character should be life-like and have huge flaws in order to be 'realistic' is a product of reality television of the last decade. It will pass, and then we are going to see great works of art again.

    nonnus29
    Quote:

    I haven't watched Stargate, but if it is anything like the new BSG

    Stargate is NOTHING like BSG. The two couldn't be more different. O'neils character is just like McGuyver; he's a wise cracking smart @ss. Its great. Stargate never takes itself too seriously unlike BSG which is a bit oppressive at times, imo.

    ReyBrujo

    I think TNG succeeded in transmitting a concept. At all times you get the impression that they are really far away, alone, sharing travels with hostile races. Contrary to the original Star Trek, there is no "supreme being" like Spock. They can all fail. And the series focus in what Star Trek original concept: exploring.

    Just like in The Lord of the Rings, they explored so deep that they awakened the indestructible being, their "Balrog", the Borgs, the kind of enemy the series needed. Leaving boy Crusher in a desert planet and fighting the borgs were the best part of the series ;)

    StevenVI

    Having not seen all the episodes of TNG, but being in the same room as them being played while in college ... so they truly kill off Wesley Crusher? That's excellent. Puts a smile on my face. I hate that kid.

    ...I should probably stop reading this thread though. I also haven't seen Nemesis yet. :P

    ReyBrujo

    Well, they always come back now and then, but at least he is not in every episode. And ironically, the day I started to like Tasha was the day she was "killed" :'(

    Mark Oates
    Quote:

    so they truly kill off Wesley Crusher? That's excellent. Puts a smile on my face. I hate that kid.

    They didn't, unfortunately. He (would have) made a guest appearance in Nemesis, but it got left on the cutting room floor and never made the film. It's in the special features though.

    OICW
    Quote:

    Stargate never takes itself too seriously

    Ah, that's why I think it was ok until 3rd season. After that the quality started to go down, in my opinion. I would not say I have identified with O'Neil, I just liked his sarcasm and behaviour, but I definately haven't identified with any of the characters.

    Same would apply for the new Battlestar Galactica. My favourite character is Adama sr. but I cannot identify with him, because I know I would not have his qualities. Though I like some of his views on the world.

    Besides it's MacGyver.

    Quote:

    Well, they always come back now and then, but at least he is not in every episode. And ironically, the day I started to like Tasha was the day she was "killed" :'(

    Me too actually. I just can't remember if that was in the first season. Damn I have urgent need to see whole series of TNG. I used to watch it as young (like 8~10 years ago) and I liked it, beacuse of that exploration. Even though I now like the new BSG, I think I'm gonna like watching TNG again because of exploration, although I'm not buying that technobabble. But on the other hand in english it would not be that awkward as in czech.

    Evert
    Quote:

    And there would be no Riker as he got his own command

    Who cares about Riker, as long as Picard is in there?

    Quote:

    Did anyone else ever notice in the first 5 minutes of the first episode of TNG (Far Point Station?) there's a male crewman walking around in a skirt?

    Of course! Hard to miss, isn't it?

    Quote:

    I've been complaining to my friends a lot about how the first season really sucks.

    The second series isn't much better (ever seen Shades of Grey?), though it does at least have some great episodes (Q Who? springs to mind, but there are more).
    To be honest, TNG's first two series were probably worse than Enterprise's first two series, and Enterprise was almost canceled then and there. Times change, I guess.

    Quote:

    Did anyone identify with Picard or Data?

    Well... I think of both of them as believable characters and, in a way, suitable role models. One of the reasons I really like both of them (especially if they're in a scene together, like the one that was cut from Nemesis).

    Quote:

    Same would apply for the new Battlestar Galactica. My favourite character is Adama sr.

    Easily. Adama is no Picard, but he's still great. I also like the character of screwed-up Baltar. Fortunately I cannot identify with him either!

    Quote:

    At all times you get the impression that they are really far away, alone, sharing travels with hostile races.

    Yes, but at the same time conflicts are (almost) always resolved by establishing a dialog, finding a common ground. Contrast this with what has become the norm pretty much since Voyager and especially Enterprise, where conflicts are more often resolved through an action-packed fire fight. TNG is slower, more pensive and better for it.

    Kitty Cat
    Quote:

    Ah, that's why I think it was ok until 3rd season. After that the quality started to go down, in my opinion.

    Seasons 4 and 5 are generally considered the best, I think. Though personally I enjoyed it right up to the end (and will be sure to get the two movies).

    I also enjoy Atlantis, as it seemed to catch the same spark the original did, without resorting to being a carbon copy of it. The quality's dropped off drasticly since the end of the third season though, when the budgets were cut and all the good writers left. There's still a few good episodes though, however scant they may be.

    OICW
    Quote:

    Easily. Adama is no Picard, but he's still great. I also like the character of screwed-up Baltar. Fortunately I cannot identify with him either!

    Yes, the two are different. But both have some distinguished moral standards. As far as Baltar goes, I hated him in the first season, but now I like him, but then again cannot identify with him too.

    Thomas Fjellstrom
    Quote:

    Seasons 4 and 5 are generally considered the best, I think. Though personally I enjoyed it right up to the end (and will be sure to get the two movies).

    I originally stoped watching (due to a time schedule switch or something) around season 4 or 5. But the quality did start hitting the floor after 5 or 6, and didn't pick up again till 9 or 10. Then again, I still liked all of them after I picked it up again and watched all the seasons I missed.

    Evert
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    As far as Baltar goes, I hated him in the first season, but now I like him, but then again cannot identify with him too.

    I like how keeps getting more and more screwed up. Anyone else notice how he's started looking like Jesus in the last few episodes of series three?

    OICW

    Yep, we were joking about that with friends.

    Arthur Kalliokoski
    Quote:

    he's started looking like Jesus

    I'll have to watch that! I've always wondered what Jesus looked like...

    nonnus29

    No, every one knows Jesus was black:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_of_Jesus

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