The Big Brother is wathching your pee... 
School nurse: "I'd like to have a sample of your urine in this cup."
Student: "I collect stamps."
Is that even legal?
Is that even legal?
What would you rather have: drunk kids on the streets or totalitarian control?
What would you rather have: drunk kids on the streets or totalitarian control?
Better parenting.
What would you rather have: drunk kids on the streets or totalitarian control?
I'd take drunk kids. What do I win?
I don't think anything will stop kids from drinking once in a while. The more we try to prevent it, the more they'll want it, and the more ingenious their attempts to get it will be.
Better parenting.
Eent! Wrong answer! That would mean that parents have to take responsability for the actions of their kids.
That would mean that parents have to take responsability for the actions of their kids.
Exactly.
Exactly.
Exactly.
I don't know about your country, but a parent has legal responsibility for their kids. Until the kid reached "legal" age, its the parents responsibility to take care of and raise their kids.
Too bad most parents are lazy as fuck. Using the TV and schools to raise their kids for them, and then complaining that both are doing something wrong. Suck it up and take responsibility.
Is that even legal?
That's what she said!
What does "You must log in to see this page." have to do with anything?
I don't have a problem with drug testing in general, but this is too extreme. I don't drink and I'm all for keeping kids off alcohol, but I really think this misses the mark. You need to show them how to act with responsibility. Drug testing is just the easy way out, and once they are done with school, they'll not be any wiser.
Not to mention, false positives and cheating will make the system untrustworthy.
"As many as half of our kids are doing this," says Reynolds.
It's interesting that they seem to know that at least half of all students don't consume alcohol.
On another note, the one-word, one-for-one posting between LennyLen and Rampage has got to stop 
On another note, the one-word, one-for-one posting between LennyLen and Rampage has got to stop
That game got boring real quick. I think he's well ahead now. But as for short replies, I never use a sentence where one or two words will suffice. I'm too lazy, and too slow a typer.
I think it's bs, if somebody started to test me at school for drinking I would just stop going.
Not like that stopped me when I was going to school though. Most of my years in school was much of a blur. 
Well, that explains a lot...
On another note, the one-word, one-for-one posting between LennyLen and Rampage has got to stop
I swear I left the game the day before yesterday!
I envisage a lawyer feeding frenzy coming up if the testing goes ahead.
The schools responsibility for students should only be during school time. What concern is it to the schools if the kids drink over the weekend, outside of school hours, but are sober at school?
They should be concerned with students being drunk while at school. But not outside of school time. They're overstepping the boundaries.
They're overstepping the boundaries
Can you say where exactly is the boundary?
Can you say where exactly is the boundary?
School gates?
[edit]
Or wherever they may be during school time, as long as they are part of a school activity.
[/edit]
What if pupils go outside the gates to smoke some weed or drink booze? Or could you keep children behind a locked doors while the school day isn't over?
I envisage a lawyer feeding frenzy coming up if the testing goes ahead.
It depends on what sort of contracts the school makes the parents sign.
If you exchange "school" with "workplace", would that change anything?
If you exchange "school" with "workplace", would that change anything?
You don't have kids at your workplace, do you? Kids are usually at school, and it's illegal for them to drink before 21 (in that state).
Would replacing "school" with "your home" change anything?
I love how they say it's a problem because this-and-that percent of students drink. Is it hurting their academics? Instead of a few percentage points lost, will they be expelled, as the article almost implied? Someone could do a small bit of harm to themself, so instead the system needs to ensure that they do? Way to ruin peoples lives.
You don't have kids at your workplace, do you?
Diana does
Kids are usually at school, and it's illegal for them to drink before 21 (in that state).
There are a lot of people who are old enough to leave school but are under 21, who are in full time employment.
Would replacing "school" with "your home" change anything?
Yes. Areas of responsibility are vastly different.
The area of responsibility in school & workplace are very similar. My point about the school/workplace wording is if they employ testing tactics at school, can they do it at work? Are they legally allowed to? If not, should they be legally allowed to at school?
Most schools, at least around here, are closed campus. That means they can't just leave to smoke or whatever.
Testing student's urine for alcohol is overstepping boundaries. IF they are drunk at school or a school function, that's grounds for discipline, but checking up on what the student did on their own time isn't right.
Don't we have the 5th ammendment anymore?
Don't we have the 5th ammendment anymore?
Oh, you know what they say about the american constitution nowadays.
Don't we have the 5th ammendment anymore?
Wasn't it replaced by patriot act some time ago?
Kids are usually at school, and it's illegal for them to drink before 21 (in that state).
Ehm since when 18 year old man is called a kid? I don't know how in the "demoratic" states behind the ocean, but here since you're 18 you're full responsible for what you do. That means that you can drive a car, drink alcohol, smoke, but if you do something against the law you're responsible for that.
I mean isn't that cute, that in USA kids can drive a car since 16 but drink alcohol when they're 21? When you're 21 you're ussually 2 or 3 years at the uni.
Besides I've heard that you can also be conscripted to the army at 16 - my friend was last year in Utah, she told us that one day some guys from US Army came in and began persuading students to join the army and asked her too. She refused very politely, because it would be a treason. But I think that lot's of kids can get persuaded.
Can't they just say they had a cold took some cough medicine that weekend.
I mean isn't that cute, that in USA kids can drive a car since 16 but drink alcohol when they're 21? When you're 21 you're ussually 2 or 3 years at the uni.
FYI, the driving age varies from state to state. Anyways, this is not the only example that age restrictions different from age 18 are in effect. You have to be 35 to be President, for example. Does that mean a 30-year-old is not responsible enough to be the leader of the United States of America? Yes. That's the same logic used in setting the alcohol consumption age to 21. (Personally, I don't think there should be a drinking age, as I think it leads to increased alcoholism and crime.)
Besides I've heard that you can also be conscripted to the army at 16
You can sign whatever contract you like at ages below 18, but it means nothing. This includes joining the military.
You can sign whatever contract you like at ages below 18, but it means nothing. This includes joining the military.
Ok, if you're sure, that's enough. But I've still heard that there were some underage soldiers in Iraq (mostly from GB, but I think that USA had them too), plus it's a fact that you can join military even if you're not 18.
The question is simple - when a person in USA is considered mature or adult? Here it is 18, since then he can do whatever he likes but takes also responsibility. Yes you have some special driving licences from 21 years (mostly for trucks). And of course to be a president you must be at least 40.
Here it is 18, since then he can do whatever he likes but takes also responsibility.
Same. Aside from age restrictions on holding political positions, alcohol consumption is the action publicly restricted by age that I know of. (Non-governmental organizations might also restrict actions based on age, but they aren't a concern in this discussion.)
Ok fine, if the goverment says so, so say we all. I don't really see a point in having drinking age, but that's your problem. One more question just to be sure:
When I go to USA for a visit and let's say go to a restaurant, order a some food, pizza for instance (in some pizzeria), and order red wine or any other alcohol, would they mind that I'm not 21? Note I'm from a country where I can drink.
Can't they just say they had a cold took some cough medicine that weekend.
Sure, why not? According to the article even having a sip of wine is enough to fail the test.
In order for this to be an effective excuse they would have to contact the parent of the child in question and ask if they had any knowledge of the child consuming cough syrup, or comunion wine, or even ethanol hand sanitizers 
Edit:
Yes, OICW, if the restaurant is caught serving minors alcholol, it can get in alot of trouble and have to pay fines and/or have its liquor license revoked. It's like that in Canada, I assume it's the same for the U.S.
Samuel: and guess what, the parents would just don't know. I think that if they'd be going around checking urine and expelling kids from schools, USA would have a big trouble with uneducated people...
EDIT:
So it means, that even if I can legally drink, I cannot do so in USA if I'm under 21. Mm, interesting.
but that's your problem
Just glad I don't live in the state they are testing it in 
USA would have a big trouble with uneducated people...
What's this subjunctive crap?
Sooner or later a day comes... 
So it means, that even if I can legally drink, I cannot do so in USA if I'm under 21. Mm, interesting.
Yeah. The drinking age here is 19, but our bars and clubs suck so I rarely do. I'll be turning 21 in 4 days though, I'm thinking about spending the 15 minutes to cross the border and hit up some clubs in Michigan..
So it means, that even if I can legally drink, I cannot do so in USA if I'm under 21. Mm, interesting.
Of course not. Why would nationality have anything to do with it? You're in their country, you play by their rules. Imagine a British person going to USA (or most any other country, for that matter) and driving on the left side of the street and getting away with it, since he's from Britain.
You're in their country, you play by their rules.
Exactly. And make sure you bring the correct proof-of-age with you (in places where you are old enough). In most countries, the only foreign proof-of-age that will be accepted is a passport. If you try using your driver's licence, chances are you'll be turned away.
I'm thinking about spending the 15 minutes to cross the border and hit up some clubs in Michigan..
Tell me when, so I can make sure to stay off the road. 
Well I was thinking so, that I have to play by the rules they'be setted up. But still was asking out of curiosity. Besides I don't plan visiting american continent in the nearest future, so...
Come visit us, it's 18 over here. And we have much better beer.
Tell me when, so I can make sure to stay off the road
Certainly. If it happens it's going down on the 20th, 4 days from now
I'd love to go to Europe (or any other continent really), but I'm just a poor college student (back-packing is not an option)
And we have much better beer.
I'd personally prefer to be here in that case, no harm 
Besides I'd love to visit your steak house, but there's simmilar problem Samuel has...
Edit:
Oh by the way, what is some good NZ beer? Just to know what to try when I see it, because I ussually have objections against foreign beer (especially american).
So it means, that even if I can legally drink, I cannot do so in USA if I'm under 21.
Even better. I heard the following example the other day. Someone (from Europe, obviously) who had turned twenty one the week before (say, on April 10th, i.e. 10-4) wanted to buy a drink in the USA, and he was asked to show his ID. He did so - and was refused, on account of "his ID showing he wouldn't turn 21 until 4 October".
This is so completely stupid I found the story rather funny, but in a way it's sad.
As for drinking ages, shops and bars are not allowed to sell alcoholic beverages to children under 16; they're not allowed to sell stronger liquors to people under 18.
Evert: that's believable. It's really sad, I wonder what would they say if the ID would say 31st january for instance. Besides I'd really argue with them to use some normal format for a date.
What, MM/DD is normal.
Ehm, it's normal as a mile, isn't it? So if you want to be original, just make sure you know there are other more practical formats, like DD-MM-YYYY. Because I could be in such trouble too considering the fact that I was born on 10th of July.
Ehm, it's normal as a mile, isn't it?
Yeah. Repeat stuff about our country, our rules.
Honestly, although I consider the US Customary measurement system to be abnormal, the date thing makes perfect sense to me. "October 4th", "10th of April"... Yeah. I always use YYYY-MM-DD when talking on computers
Yeah. Repeat stuff about our country, our rules.
What? You mean that by your rules my birthday is on the twelfth of June?
What, MM/DD is normal.
Not in the rest of the world it isn't.
the date thing makes perfect sense to me.
Of course it doesn't make sense. What do you care about more? The day or the month? Do you also say (and write) "15:14" if you mean quarter past two in the afternoon?
DD/MM for the Win!
What? You mean that by your rules my birthday is on the twelfth of June?
Me being so cultured as to have actually spoken about the issue with people outside of the country, I am aware of your different conventions.
Of course it doesn't make sense. What do you care about more? The day or the month? Do you also say (and write) "15:14" if you mean quarter past two in the afternoon?
Although it's a rhetorical question, I care more about the month in most cases. However, while I understand the inconsistency of using MM/DD/YYYY, it makes perfect sense to me, because I read it as "Month Day'th, Year", and not "Day'th of Month, Year".
You can't win this argument, and neither can I. Let's talk about which side of the egg to crack instead.
I hate when a 'user-friendly' database won't accept dates in DD-MM-YYYY format.
Kinda walking off-topic here, but I find DD-MM-YYYY (or YYYY-MM-DD) much more logical in structure than MM-DD-YYYY, because they derive a value from another (year's month's day). But if the US wants to keep their out-dated non-standard units of measurement, that's fine with me. (Correct me if I'm wrong)
EDIT: To correct what I meant by logical is that the values go from large to small or small to large rather than being semi-random gibberish
But if the US wants to keep their out-dated non-standard units of measurement, that's fine with me. (Correct me if I'm wrong)
You fail. It's not fine with you.
Oh, by the way, nice to have you back
You fail. It's not fine with you.
Yes, you should be fine with it, not the other way around.
he was asked to show his ID. He did so - and was refused, on account...
I don't know about your country's passport format, but they usually include the format of the date as well as the date in itself. Or do like other countries, put the month in 3 letters instead of a number...
My ID-card looks something like that but with glasses:
{"name":"ID-kaart-kodanik-esikylg1.jpg","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/3\/c\/3c39b8824591bb0ec65d7374238cc4f0.jpg","w":252,"h":163,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/3\/c\/3c39b8824591bb0ec65d7374238cc4f0"}
As you can see the birthdate is there in format DD.MM.YYYY. That piece of plastic is equivalent of paper passports in all Europe and probably in Schengen countries also.
You are a woman????!
Actually no but we have similar hair. That one is the stock photo of the ID card. I don't have a photo of my own.
Actually no but we have similar hair. That one is the stock photo of the ID card. I don't have a photo of my own.
Now you do.
{"name":"591231","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/6\/5\/6579ec30db768d269376e5edaa0f9ff3.png","w":252,"h":163,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/6\/5\/6579ec30db768d269376e5edaa0f9ff3"}
Hey... cows don't have paws! 
Hey... cows don't have paws!
This one might, hes a pretty crazy lookin cow, probably has issues.
I wonder what they would say on such an ID
Or do like other countries, put the month in 3 letters instead of a number...
My passport has that, I'm not sure what sort of ID said person used.
I wonder what they would say on such an ID
A few weeks ago, a man here got a (valid!) ID card with a picture of himself dressed as The Joker.
{"name":"6579ec30db768d269376e5edaa0f9ff3.png","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/6\/5\/6579ec30db768d269376e5edaa0f9ff3.png","w":252,"h":163,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/6\/5\/6579ec30db768d269376e5edaa0f9ff3"}
Hehe!
This one might, hes a pretty crazy lookin cow, probably has issues.
You haven't seen nothing yet
{"name":"591236","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/b\/d\/bd1d47702c04332aa64ac0c8e5950d6e.png","w":320,"h":310,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/b\/d\/bd1d47702c04332aa64ac0c8e5950d6e"}
Impression of me by Flacko the Funky Weasel
[edit]
Now ID with real mugshot!
{"name":"591237","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/2\/1\/217142771292890976e6d905d5183b44.png","w":252,"h":162,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/2\/1\/217142771292890976e6d905d5183b44"}
My driver's license looks like:
http://users.adelphia.net/~abedenko/sample2.JPG
Except in red letters, vertically, to the right of my picture, it says UNDER 21, and everybody under 21 was automatically issued a new license via mail. So basically, they just check to see if your ID says "UNDER 21" or not.
[edit] I also meant to point out that the new NY licenses/permits don't point out MM-DD-YY format.
This is what my driving license looks like:
but with my face, of course. Why do all the samples have the face of a woman?
These licenses don't have an expiration date. In the past we had to renew them every 3 years or so.
Swedish version looks something like this. I thought I'd be a little different so I found one with a panda.
{"name":"pandakort.gif","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/4\/b\/4bebaed6d1890b5cc38a3466d345053d.gif","w":294,"h":184,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/4\/b\/4bebaed6d1890b5cc38a3466d345053d"}
Doesn't look like a panda to me...
http://www.hsiasia.org/images/panda_Face_MD.jpg
The bear in Trezker's image is a Red Panda.
We don't have ID cards here in the UK.
Yet
Uruguayan ID card (this time the sample is a man):
I think all EU has the same driving license
Italy:
{"name":"patente_av.jpg","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/1\/c\/1ce484b0df1b1aed732453a3c2ecd9ab.jpg","w":400,"h":251,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/1\/c\/1ce484b0df1b1aed732453a3c2ecd9ab"}
I think all EU has the same driving license
Close, but not quite. The layout seems to be a bit different in Estonia
http://web.ark.ee/img/juhiluba.html
It is the size of a regular credit card.
HoHo, I think ours is about the same. The pattern on the back is different IIRC, though. Oh, btw, what does "juhi" mean?
FMC: sorry to mess up your day, but we have it slightly different. Blue credic card looking weird thingie with damn small grey photo.
"juhi"=drivers, "luba"=licence
FMC: sorry to mess up your day
Nah, you need much more to mess up my day
Where do you have to use all these ID cards then? To buy alcohol, to get into cinemas, that kind of thing?
You can use them anywhere you need to prove your identity or age.
I think due to us having no ID cards, we probably have less places where we need to that than other countries that have them. But I can't be sure of course.
we probably have less places where we need to that than other countries that have them.
You don't have age restrictions on alcohol or tobacco or anything else?
Our Driver's Licence looks like the UK Licence, except that it's green (for full licence), the smaller photo is higher, and it has our flag on it.
Where do you have to use all these ID cards then? To buy alcohol, to get into cinemas, that kind of thing?
I'm not sure what cinemas here accept as ID, but I used to use my driver's licence when I was younger. For purchasing alcohol in New Zealand, the only accepted forms of ID are a NZ photo driver's licence, a HANZ* 18+ card, a NZ passport, and a foreign passport. Birth certificates and foreign driver's licences are not valid forms of ID.
Hospitality Association of New Zealand
Yes we do, but apart from buying alocohol, tobacco and getting into bars I can't think of anywhere else I would use one in day to day life.
"juhi"=drivers, "luba"=licence
Yeah, I thought so. License is "lupa" in Finnish, so I figured that much out. "Juhi" doesn't resemble any Finnish word though.
I've always thought Estonian sounds a bit wacky. A lot of your words resemble Finnish words, but they sound more casual or slang-ish, and sort of like the person speaking has a blocked nose. Me and my friends always say "kauba maja" (sp?) when we talk about the store. In Finnish the word is "kauppa", and "maja" is actually the Finnish word for hut. So "kauba maja" sounds like it means "store hut". That's why I think Estonian sounds funny
I can't think of anywhere else I would use one in day to day life.
Basically what you would do with SSNs (get credit cards, open bank accounts, required for doing government paperwork, etc.). Here in Uruguay you also have to show your ID to use the credit card (to prevent theft).
get credit cards, open bank accounts, required for doing government paperwork, etc.
Oh.. we have to use complicated forms with multiple proofs of identity for this.
RP: you don't have anything like ID at all (I don't count driver licence)?
No, we have a passport (but that's not compulsory), that's it.
We have ID-card and non-compulsory passport