This was discussed a bit a while ago, but this seems like an opportune time to bring the subject up again.
Now that Allegro 4.2 is nearing completion (although no release date has been set yet and there'll be several release candidates out before that time), it's time to start thinking about the demo game. As we all know, Allegro's current demo isn't really a good example of proper coding style, and it's fairly old. So it might be time to replace it.
Therefor, I would like to organise an Allegro Demo Game Competition. I realize that there's allready other competitions going on, but what's one more, right? 
To qualify for a good demo game, it should fulfill some requirements:
The code should be readable and well documented with comments.
The code should use Allegro and only Allegro. No addons.
Use the Allegro logo on the opening screen. Optionally feature either of Allegro's mascots, Al or Alex. The latter if Johan Peitz agrees that it's ok to use his character for this.
The code should compile cleanly without warnings on Allegro 4.2, on all platforms. That means no deprecated functions can be used, so that means it won't compile on 4.0.
The game should feature the list of AUTHORS and their contributions in some way or other, similar to what the current demo game does.
The game should showcase a lot of Allegro's capabilities in some way. Think rotating sprites, multiple update methods, separated logic and drawing code, having the game run at the same speed on all computers, things like that.
The code should be in C, although I wouldn't be too strongly opposed to having a second demo game (or the same game) written in C++, but we don't want to bloat the default download with a lot of demo games.
Original content for the media is a big plus. At the very least sprites, samples and music should be from the public domain. If you don't make your media yourself, make sure that you know where it comes from and has a license that is compatible with Allegro (meaning SpriteLib is out). If possible, ask permission from the author of the media to use it.
Size restriction on the media: I know you'll hate this, but the demo game media should not dominate the Allegro package download. The current demo.dat is 383KB. I think we can go a bit above that, but do try to keep it down.
I think that covers most of it. I'll add things to the list if I think of more of them.
So, what's to win? Obviously, the grand prize would be to have your game shipped with Allegro. If there are several entries that qualify (and I hope there will be!) I'm in favour of making a separate `demo game' package linked from Allegro's homepage with a description and small screenshot of each game.
For game ideas, think simple games. Remakes of old games everyone knows and loves should be fine. Feel free to recycle old projects and work in teams.
Again, no release date has been fixed for Allegro 4.2, although it should be sometime in the next few months. If you want to try to make a demo, do say so and I'll try to keep everyone up to date on the release schedule. Compared to the rigorous 72 hours of SpeedHack or TINS, this should allow you ample time to finish the project anyway as you'll have at least that much time.
If someone feels like helping me set up a webpage for this event similar to the website for SpeedHack or TINS, let me know.
So go thee forth and make some demo games!
separate 
Very good. Now go post something useful. 
Wouldn't be better to make a community game?
Wouldn't be better to make a community game?
It would be great if anything gets done
Someone would have to take lead.
I personally think a short and simple tetris clone would be a good example. Not to hard so it will get done in time.
As I said, feel free to make it a team effort.
Considering how well Allegro.cc's last team project fared, I wouldn't recommend trying to get a significant portion of the community to work on a single game for this. It's probably also overkill for a project of this magnitude. I think one person for coding, one for graphics and one for music should be about the maximum that is realistically feasable.
Anyway, feel free to do this any way you see fit!
I smell a really good compo!
Uncertain deadline... I wonder if that motivates or not...
One thing I'm wondering. Should the code be in one single sourcefile like the current demo?
I'll write one, but it'll be in C++, and most certainly use blending of some sort. 
But 4.2 isn't out yet, so how can I use 4.2 "features"?
Though, to add to that, should the demo require decent specs, or almost none at all (like the previous)? If you go too high, people can't run it (and Allegro will seem slow). But if you go too low, Allegro won't look very pretty.
Uncertain deadline... I wonder if that motivates or not...
I think it might put people off... count on having at least a month, perhaps more to polish things. Of course, entries need to be tested for suitability and maybe modified somewhat too.
One thing I'm wondering. Should the code be in one single sourcefile like the current demo?
Well, it's usually good coding style not to do that - amd we want to showcase good coding style. That said, it can be a little easier to learn from if all the code is in one source module.
I think readable and well documented should be the criterion. The way I would interpret this is to say that single source file should be the starting point, but that seperating clearly independent modules could make sense. Of course, having a lot of sourcefiles floating around make it too hard for newbies to look at the code. Five or so would be about the maximum, I suppose.
EDIT:
I'll write one, but it'll be in C++, and most certainly use blending of some sort.
That's fine. As I said, even if it wouldn't qualify as an extra demo, it would qualify as a download from Allegro's homepage.
But 4.2 isn't out yet, so how can I use 4.2 "features"?
The CVS tree is in feature-freeze. There will only be minor additions between 4.1.18 and 4.2.0, feature-wise.
Though, to add to that, should the demo require decent specs, or almost none at all (like the previous)? If you go too high, people can't run it (and Allegro will seem slow). But if you go too low, Allegro won't look very pretty.
I think the aim should be for it to run decently on the average PC, although I suppose it could go higher if that is documented or, better yet, configurable by picking a lower resolution or using less visual effects.
Should it be 2D or can we make use of Allegro 3D functions and make something fully 3D? 
I don't think using 3d only is good, 3d really isn't very allegro...
But using it for some effect, maybe displaying the authors, could be good.
Hmm, good incentive for me to clean up G-Fighter's source and slap some better graphics on it. It's been on my to-do list for ages...
Hm, what happened to Spellcaster? I thought he was working on a new demo game, at least he volunteered in that last thread about it
About multiple files - I think it shouldn't be a huge single file like the current demo. Hm, and I think it doesn't hurt at all that there's already TINS - after all who wants can make an entry for TINS, and then polish up the code to be used as a demo game
Why on earth is this topic yellow.. hurts my eyes.
Very good. Now go post something useful.
I don't think using 3d only is good, 3d really isn't very allegro...
The fact that almost nobody uses certain Allegro function doesn't make it non-Allegro. In fact, Allegro has cool 3D functions and I think somebody should finally start using them. Of course it can't be compared to hardware accelerated drawing, but it's probably best thing you can get without it.
Well, ofcourse it's still something worth showing. But the game itself should be 2d since that's where Allegro has most gfx weight.
3d can be used to create some bitmaps runtime: render stuff to bitmaps and use as usually. Only problem is that I couldn't find a way doing ortho projection with allegro.
I once converted some nehe's model loading tutorials to allegro3d but unfortunately thse got lost while installing new OS.
I don't think there needs to be any limitaion on requiring the game to be either 2D or 3D.
I don't know if showcasing Allegro's 3D functionality is that useful, but it's there and could be used.
About 3D, a separate demo for Allegro GL wouldn't be bad maybe. It could show how to combine OpenGL with Allegro's font and bitmap routines and so on.
Oh, and speaking of OpenGL reminds me - we should probably synchronize the 4.2.0 release of Allegro with the 0.3.0 release (or whatever version number) of AllegroGL. So at the release day, someone should be able to get both and convert over old projects..
The demo game isn't all that bad, the game is a decent game and it is simple enough to be understood. Perhaps a better idea is to try to update the code and whatnot and just simply spiff-up the old demo?
The demo game isn't all that bad, the game is a decent game and it is simple enough to be understood. Perhaps a better idea is to try to update the code and whatnot and just simply spiff-up the old demo?
Yes, if someone would just remake the current demo, but with readable code (i.e. code where you could say "that's how you should do it" to new users, and which could be used as base for other projects), that would be perfect.
Nah, I think I fresh Demo would be a lot better.
Well, if you want to submit a cleaned up version of the current demo, that would qualify... at the very least, the current demo would have to be made available as a seperate download.
But I think a newer demo game would be nice to have
The new demo should address common Allegro questions in a clear and commented manner.
Agreed. Maybe it's even worth compiling a list of some of the most common questions and attaching it to the spec for the competition.
I agree. I have one right off the bat. Drawing a bitmap with partial transparency.
You could always incorporate a bit of the 3D into a 2D game. For example, I've used an Allegro-generated 3D skybox as the background for an opening intro.
But I think the new demo should attempt to exercise as many of Allegro's functions as possible (in a logic manner of course), and feature solutions to some of the most common questions. (Rotating/scaling/flipped sprites, translucency/transparency, maybe even have it work seemlessly with truecolor/hicolor/color-index modes.)
I think a demo should be written in simple C with an effort to illustrate how to use Allegro's best features in a logical manner. Great gameplay and graphics should be a secondary goal.
The focus should be on:
Clear, easy to read, understandable source code!
Getting input from joystick, keyboard, and mouse
Loading some external media from a datafile
Playing background MIDI and sound effects
Using a double buffer and blitting sprites (perhaps with rotation, scaling and translucency - if easily done)
User controlled object moving in simple x/y directions
Simple collision detection between sprites
Highscore list (saving / reading to disk)
Loading / Saving settings (config files)
Stuff like 3D, GUIs, etc, just make the thing messy for a beginner to understand. I'd go with a single resolution (with high-color) to avoid the confusion that comes with "customization". I'd even stay away from potential pitfalls like linked lists and clever programming tricks. There's also no need to get into complex math - I'd keep it as simple as possible.
A demo that simply illustrates the "power" of Allegro is a waste of space in the source package. I'd hate to see even more space in the ZIP be spent on a demo.dat that is rarely used. If someone wants to see what Allegro can do, then they ought to just download a full fledged game.
All in all, the "keep it simple" philosophy.
I'd even stay away from potential pitfalls like linked lists and clever programming tricks. There's also no need to get into complex math - I'd keep it as simple as possible.
Sounds like my code.
The more I think about it, the harder it seems. Games aren't simple.
A game I thought of doing would be kind of like missile command, but polar. You have a satellite on a planet that you control with the left and right keys (your orbit direction). The mouse is where the satellite shoots its lasers and rockets. Rockets constantly track the mouse position. Missiles come in from all directions. The outposts on the planet constantly rebuild themselves (but slowly).
But... while I'm still going to make it. Making it simple (and pretty!) seems almost impossible. I'll need a list for bullets, a list for rockets, a list for (enemy) missiles, and so on. It'll be pretty complex. So, I guess I'll have to find something simpler, and keep "Planetary Defender" as more of a "what you can do with Allegro" thing. As it'll have a lot of spiffy blending and lighting (the lasers glow).
What about a platform game similar to Happyland Adventures? Or is that too complex to?
I suppose it depends if we want a real game, or more of a demo.
A platform game has a tile system, collision detection, AI, general logic, and scrolling (to just name a few!). That's pretty big in itself.
That's why I'm having trouble of thinking of something "simple" that hasn't been abused already.
What about a platform game similar to Happyland Adventures? Or is that too complex too?
If you can make a platformer that illustrates the basic usage of Allegro in a simple manner - then it'd be ok. However, I think the mechanics of the engine would get in the way.
That's why I'm having trouble of thinking of something "simple" that hasn't been abused already.
There's nothing wrong with an Allegroid space shooter game. Alex shooting up SDL logos or whatever.
Hmm.. I was thinking of another Dungeons kind of game (Dandy dungeons, the inspiration behind Gauntlet). Basically it's gauntlet with boulderdash style tile movement for everything. It's fun, and would be easier to program (for the game complexity) than other genre's.
I did a version on the Amiga.
I'd hate to see even more space in the ZIP be spent on a demo.dat that is rarely used.
I had considered imposing more stringent size restrictions than SpeedHack, but the current demo.dat is already larger... yes, a small footprint on the demo.dat is a premium.
All in all, the "keep it simple" philosophy.
I agree that should be the goal. If you think you can do a simple enough 3D game, well, sure. But you run the risk of having it disqualify for being too complex afterall.
A game I thought of doing would be kind of like missile command, but polar. You have a satellite on a planet that you control with the left and right keys (your orbit direction).
Sounds good. Just make sure your code is well documented, and it should be ok.
I'll need a list for bullets, a list for rockets, a list for (enemy) missiles, and so on.
Plain arrays will do. I wouldn't use a linked list for those myself anyway.
What about a platform game similar to Happyland Adventures? Or is that too complex to?
A full-fledged platformer would be too complex, I think. You're also going to want levels for it, after all.
Unless you make it Donkey Kong, in which case it would all fit on one screen anyway. Or you could try for a simple Nibbles/Snakes clone.
Alex shooting up SDL logos or whatever.
Anyway, looks like some people have some good ideas. Go for it! 
Why not use Alex4?
None of us have produced something as polished before, now have we?
Why not use Alex4?
It's a 600kB download, which is on the heavy side. The code isn't very pretty, it has too many source files, the structure of the game itself is way too complex, it doesn't use vanilla Allegro but addons as well, doesn't run without modifications on all platforms...
Sure, all (or most) of those things could be fixed in some way or other - but I think you get my point
It's a very nice game and clearly shows that great things can be done with Allegro, but it's not suitable for the demo game.
Why not use Alex4?
That code is bad. Great game, but man that code is hard to read.
Right, it uses more than Allegro. Ok, so make a clone. The source is already there, it's a great starting point. Strip everything and build it back up.
Ok, so make a clone.
Your entry, perhaps?
Me? Do something?
I would improve an older game of mine but all my games are written in C++. I really cant understand why people still write games in C, but I guess thats neither here nor there..
I dont have time to start a new project but I would be more than willing to review code written by other people and also write comments.
Why not have two demo games? one C and one C++.
Just write a demo game in C or C++ and submit - then Evert (or whoever) can select one or more of the games as demo(s).
My idea of cloning an old Qbasic game someone else did sounds more and more appropriate. (I'm not submitting Devospace, I don't wanna see that code again.)
I don't know if I'll do it in time for this thing, but I've been dreaming of cloning this game for a long time.
How many of you have studied the demo game code to learn something? I usually go for the example things.
I studdied it to learn how not to do things.
That's exactly the point. A good demo would be something you can use as base of your own games. You definitely shouldn't do that with the current one.
Of course there could also be several demo games (increasing in complexity) for example from pong to tetris to a galaxian style game. The small amount of gfx for some of these games shouldn't make much of a dent in the space allowance.
Well, if that were the case (and I like the idea), I'd prefer we put them all (except "the Winner") in a Demo Pack instead of the main distro.
What about this:
I write a "template", something pretty basic containing set-up and shutdown code, maybe hiscore code.
Then we create several small games. That would mean that no single game needs to use all of allegro's features.
In the end we have a demos directory with the ready to use template, and some small games the user can use to get a better idea.
That way we can also add more games later.
demo
demo/template
demo/puzzle
demo/sportsgame
demo/platformer
demo/snake
The template code would be really generic. Not even sure if it should include menu code, since most games prefer to use their own, personal code for that.
On the other hand, all games need some sort of menu.
What do you guys think? If it's ok for you that I write the template, I'd try to start pretty soon and finish it on the weekend.
Once that is done, we just need to decide what type of demo games we want, and need somebody to code them
It sounds a great idea to me.
How detailed should the template be though?
Less talk, more action ie: It doesn't matter. Its up to the coder till [s]he releases it. Then it can be tweeked or massaged into what people want.
If it's ok for you that I write the template,
Lemmie guess, C? I don't think I'll be using that, or at least for my next project (the planet one).
Lemmie guess, C? I don't think I'll be using that, or at least for my next project (the planet one).
YTou could make c++ bindings or c++ alternative of it
I guess including several games is a bit too much for allegro. Perhaps it would be good idea to seperate the library and tests, examples and games into two or more seperate packages.
An official tutorial with example games/programs would be nice but I don't think it would be done in forseeable future
What about this:
I write a "template", something pretty basic containing set-up and shutdown code, maybe hiscore code.
Then we create several small games. That would mean that no single game needs to use all of allegro's features.
In the end we have a demos directory with the ready to use template, and some small games the user can use to get a better idea.
That way we can also add more games later.
I like the idea, it's neat. But I don't feel like requiring people to follow this way... if they really want to write their own game independent of a single framework, then I think it should be ok for them to do so.
It would be a great way to show how to create reusable modules for your games though.
Spellcaster: I think your idea is great. To me the idea of writing something within a template is quite attractive. I'd also like to prove that I can write legible code with comments .
OT: The template/framework idea would be great for a Bishi-Bashi style game competition.
Bishi Bashi was a collection of fun/silly small games, each game was one round of a bigger game and a nice size for a programming competition.
I've always thought that BB was a good framework for a compo, but the result being more substantial and structured for demo purposes.
Having said that, a full BB game would probably be too much to be packaged with Allegro as a demo game but I think that'd be a great competition for the future some day.
I don't know why but writing a Bishi Bashi level seems less intimidating than a solo game, even though it's more or less the same thing
The template idea does sound like a good idea -- I would do a menu using that, because almost all of my games use a similiar menu that contains options such as "start game", "configure game options/controls", and "exit". (But then again, I tend to work on the same paradigm as console games -- Limited input ability, rarely support the mouse, etc.)
The highscore tables code and such rarely change between my games. In fact I tend to just cut-n-paste between my projects. Usually the only thing that changes is what sort of values are being written to the score file, but if you just keep it to score and name, that would be fine for a small subset of games.
One more to add: Shooter, like Space Invaders (the current demo, in other words) Whether it's a scrolling shooter is debatable, as tilemaps could be shown in the platformer.
If we are VERY creative with resources, I see no reason why we couldn't make several very simple games with just 200k or so of artwork/sound assets. Yeah, sounds like a lot of work but I have fun doing stuff like Game In A Day so I guess it doesn't bother me as much, heh.
I've the basic template ready. It allows you to handle initialisation, switching between windowed and fullscreen mode and has a simple hiscore code.
I'll add some simple menu code and make it available for download.
Do you think I should add some allegro logo display and a scrolling display of a customizable textfile as well?
Wow, I'd like to see what it looks like...
Add the allegro logo, I think that's a good idea. Don't know if a scrolling text is necessary. The logo would be enough to show how to display some sort of splash screen, which is fine for almost all games.
Wow, I'd like to see what it looks like...
Here's my current code, it still contains some testing code and the menu function is missing.
Nothing big, but I would take this out:
windowed ? WINDOWED : FULLSCREEN
Like someone said above, any shorthand code I think should be avoided. Not that it's a big deal or anything, but the less questions about something the better.
Otherwise I think it look great.
I'd go with a single resolution (with high-color) to avoid the confusion that comes with "customization"
The single resolution is a mistake, as it would be better to provide a clear example of using SCREEN_W and SCREEN_H correctly.
All the examples use a fixed resolution too and that makes it a pain to port to machines that don't offer a 'safe' 320x200 or 640x480.
Really.. Why is this forum in the forum arena shown as yellow.. It is killing me..
btw: 500'th Post with this profile
It's yellow because it's sticky. As if it's bookmarked for everyone. And its sticky so that everyone can see it and it doesn't get burried and lost among all the other posts.
The single resolution is a mistake, as it would be better to provide a clear example of using SCREEN_W and SCREEN_H correctly.
Thinking more about it, I think this is right. The examples show simple things or single features and there it's ok to use a singlefixed resolution, but the demo game can be a bit more complex than that.
Showing in a clear way, with good documentation and comments, how to support different screen modes, colour depths or even update methods would be a good thing in a demo game.
Again, the important words IMO are understandable, clean and well documented code.
Can i get rid of it? That Yellow is killing my eyes.
Sure. Use a custom stylesheet. Please open a new thread if you need to ask how to use one though.
Use the Blue Lotus Blossom style sheet. It's a nice light-blue that blends nicely with the surrounding area. It's enough to be noticeable, but it's not harsh and distracting.
Drumcode, you didn't get my hint earlier did you Oh, you can also "Kill Thread". that should get rid of the yellow.
The problem with the variable screen resolution is that get_gfx_mode_list() won't function with meta drivers like GFX_AUTODETECT.
So, you'll have to write platform or at least driver specific code to get a list - or you need to show a list of all drivers to the user.
I'd say that at GFX_AUTODETECT and GFX_AUTODETECT_FULLSCREEN should work - and return the modes for the first driver in the GFX_AUTODETECT_FULLSCREEN list.
I'm also not sure if something like this is really needed for 2d games. If your artwork is pixel based, you'll normally want a specific logical size of the screen. The only 2d games that allow different screen resolutions are normally strategy titles that display more of the map on larger screens or emulators which scale their contents to the size of the screen.
In both cases you'll need some extra logic - either to position the elements on the screen or to do the scaling.
While I think that we should have a better example for the get_gfx_mode_list() function, I'm not sure if a demo game is the right place for it.
My plate is fairly full, but I'd like to attempt a demo game for this, I have some ideas that could involve using the joystick/mouse/keyboard for game play; as for c programming, I still haven't learned oop but I practice putting my code into .cpp files so I can evily declare variables anywhere I want -- this will have to change, and I can put off learning oop a few weeks or so... -- Also I could benefit from trying to write clear cut code
Also I think some things the demo should DEFINATLEY DO, are be tile based!!! Too many people have trouble building tile based games... Also I think it should be fairly polished, since we are competing with SDL which has hardware accelerated 3D (so I'm against making anything that looks TOO old-style, but then again, I'm a fan of some of the classics so I'm kind of torn...)
Anyway SC, I'd love to use your template, I haven't looked at it yet, but your code has always been understandable for me in the past -- as for the ? operator -- I've been programming in C about 5 years now and I still don't know what it does (I know, that what it does do could be accomplished with an if/else block, but off the top of my head w/o looking it's function up, I couldn't tell you what it does...) Anyway, I might get started on my entry sometime next week, update this thread when you get menuing support in your template...
I'd love to see alex take a bite out of the SDL logo... Can we do this? or is there some kind of copyright on their logo?
Maybe just an alegator that looks like it has an SDL logo in it's mouth but you wouldn't notice unless you knew what it looked like?
Anyway...
The ?: operator is gone.
I'll add an allegro logo and a scrolling credits screen and a hiscore display function.
I'll change the kb handling to the memcpy-the-key-array variant.
I've added a window close hook while in windowed mode.
Anything else that should be in the template?
I think I'll create a "summer games" like game as a first demo game using the template. Not that many games, just the standards:
- 100 m dash
- 100 m hurdles
- Javelin throw (or maybe hammer throw)
- Long jump
- Platform diving
I might add an opening / closing ceremony.
I plan to allow both hotseat and single screen multiplayer (depending on the event and the number of joypads connected).
The game would then show how to use joysticks / keyboard, handle options and player entry screens, multiple hiscores and similar things.
And with Bryce / Poser it shouldn't even be that hard to create the gfx
I think I'll create a "summer games" like game as a first demo game using the template.
Heh, wagglemania ahoy!
This sounds like a good idea though. What I'd also like to see is a good (professionalish) Allegro logo. Maybe it's high time for someone to organize a competition about that?
Wasn't there one competition like that already?
Yes, I found the results.
[EDIT] Personally, I like this:
That's the image I use normally:
{"name":"allegro.jpg","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/5\/3\/53743769a810134207c7893a603c9fd5.jpg","w":640,"h":480,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/5\/3\/53743769a810134207c7893a603c9fd5"}
but I practice putting my code into .cpp files so I can evily declare variables anywhere I want
Well, that has nothing to do with OOP (nor does writing C++ have anything to do with OOP - it's a style of programming, not a language feature) and C99 allows this too. That said, Allegro code is pre-C99 and declaring variables halfway a function is evil and ugly anyway.
I'd love to see alex take a bite out of the SDL logo... Can we do this? or is there some kind of copyright on their logo?
I don't know if we can, but I sure think that we shouldn't. Never mind how funny it is or if it's intended in good spirit or not, we don't want to come off as bashing SDL. Ultimately, that's not going to do Allegro any good, and there's room for both libraries to coexist anyway.
Does SDL have some sort of mascot? If so, having a two player game where one player controls Alex and the other controls the SDL mascot would be ok in my opinion - but maybe we should ask for permission.
I'll add an allegro logo and a scrolling credits screen and a hiscore display function.
Something I remembered when I looked at the contents of demo.dat: the sample of Shawn saying `welcome to Allegro'. I think we should keep that.
Other than that, sounds great! I've seen some very good and interesting ideas.
That said, Allegro code is pre-C99 and declaring variables halfway a function is evil and ugly anyway.
I wouldn't go that far. Just like goto, it has its time and place.
no, it still ugly and its easy to loose a defns if theyre intersperced in the code... Or so I find.
I think that if you have big functions that declaring a variable only in it's scope of usage can be cleaner in some situations, but in others yes it can be evil and ugly... yet convienient -- which is not what I should be striving for in this project...
wish list for template: make the menu have sub menus in it for key customization/mouse sensitivity/joy calib/joy etc, and that the menu can be navigated by key/mouse/joy...
Could we postpone the coding guideline wars? Or move them to another forum? It's hard to believe how easy it is to derail a thread here...
You've been on a.cc since september 2001 and you still find it hard to believe? ;-)
Marcello
That's the image I use normally:
I like it. Maybe the "A" could be left out though, so it says just "Allegro Game Programming Library".. sounds somehow better to me. Like it's not just any game programming library, but the game programming library. Or don't know - the "A" just sounds odd to me. Could just be me though
Llegro? ;-)
I like it. Maybe the "A" could be left out though, so it says just "Allegro Game Programming Library"
Marcello, look again: it says Allegro A game programming library, he wants it changed to Allegro Game Programming Library; I like the idea, and second it. 
edit: hey sc-- I'm looking at the template you posted, and I noticed some odd things right off the bat, in the for loop in hiscore_init, you do ++a instead of a++, what is the significance of this -- from what I understand, in this context, I think I would be correct in guessing nothing would be different? Sorry that my code-fu is not up to date...
edit: as far as gfx/sfx being compatable with the allegro license, I belive allegro is the only thing I've ever seen released as "gift ware" or whatever it is (or am I confused...?) -- is the GPL compatable with the allegro license?
is the GPL compatable with the allegro license?
No.
It is in the sense that you can use both Allegro and GPL stuff in your game, and your game would then be GPL too since Allegro doesn't care and GPL requires it. But obviously, we can't include GPLed code or artwork in Allegro.
I genereally prefer ++a if it wouldn't make a difference. As you say, it makes no difference, so why do you think it's odd?
Regarding the "a":
______ ___ ___
/\ _ \ /_ \ /_ \
\ \ \L\ \//\ \ //\ \ __ __ _ __ ___
\ \ __ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ /'__`\ /'_ `/\`'__/ __`\
\ \ /\ \ _\ _ _\ _/\ __//\ \L\ \ \ //\ \L\ \
\ _\ _/____/____\ ____\ ____ \ _\\ ____/
/_//_//____//____//____//___L\ /_/ /___/
/____/
_/__/ Version 4.1.18 (WIP)
A game programming library.
By Shawn Hargreaves, Jan 23, 2005.
See the AUTHORS file for a
complete list of contributors.
But it wouldn't bea problem to remove the "a".
I dunno, a splash screen is different than documentation saying "Allegro Game Programming Library" in a splash screen looks cooler than "Allegro A game programming library" -- but that's just MHO...
I genereally prefer ++a if it wouldn't make a difference. As you say, it makes no difference, so why do you think it's odd?
I usually see a++, etc, and I was just wondering if I had interpreted that wrong, but I was guessing I hadn't, and oh nevermind... just making sure I wasn't missing something... I'm going to sleep now!
Hm, or as mentioned in that other thread, it actually could be called "multimedia library".
Maybe the allegro logo should be some flashy version of the ascii art.
Or spinning, rotating vectors! A demoscene style Allegro splash would be impressive.
Hm, or as mentioned in that other thread, it actually could be called "multimedia library".
I was kind of going after something that sounded cool to newbs instead of something truthful -- I should either go into advertising or politics... or maybe just sell used cars...
I wont fight the "A" anymore -- I submit.
Anyone have a program for recording what you type in. So you can run a replay of the writing process, like some c64 demos and such...
Would be cool to present the allegro ascii like that.
I've updated the code to 4.1.18. I've added a scroller. Guess that's it for the template. I'll now start to write a summer olympics game using the template.
Are you going to include the throw the javelin game? I like that one..
Oh, I wonder if I can use one of those old NES running pads for the game? hehe.
Umm, were you going to share the template with us? or did you decide just to do only one demo game, yourself? (did I miss a post?)
I wasn't sure if
- I should upload the file
- I should post the file
- nobody cares
I'm also unsure if I should split the file into several (hiscores, scroller, template) source and header iles (as I would normally do) or if it would be better to leave it as one big chunky source.
I would like if you:
-post the file(or several files packed together in .zip file)
-divide into several files
That's because dividnig stuff into seperate files is a Good Thing. Having everything in a several thousand lines long file is just awful imo. After all, how long would it take for a newbie to learn how to seperate things? Having an example to see how it's done it shouldn't take long.
Oh, I wonder if I can use one of those old NES running pads for the game? hehe.
Real men use Quickshots and, after breaking a number of them, curse loudly and buy a Tac-2.
Spellcastah: Upload both versions.
Or people could PM you and then you mail them...
Nah, I guess I should make a website with the relevant information and some links.
Probably also a way for people to actually register, but I don't have a clue on how to set up something like that (I probably can't anyway, because of my provider), and I don't have the time anyway.
Yeah post the code up -- most beginners like one single file, I think that's best -- if you want a site with dynamic content, I can build an asp.net site, if you wanna explain what you want -- but no real host, I can host from my xp computer which occasionally goes down (few hours a week) (see http://overandover.no-ip.com) -- but it's a little slow... (not extreemly, but much slower than something like a.cc, etc...)
Michael, so the single fileness of the current demo is what a newb would prefer? Somehow I doubt it.
TF- It's what I prefered when I first started to program, and that's really all I have to go on -- My first big project ended up being about 10 K lines of code in one big file... I still don't always put small projects in more than one file -- I think something small like a demo would go well in one file -- but if the template is huge or something that's cool too. How ever you guys wanna do this, I can just go with it.
The fact that newbies like everything in one big file does not mean this is proper coding practice. I think that especially in an example such as the allegro demo game, proper coding style should be demonstrated. Sooner or later, the newbie in question will be making larger projects, and at that point he/she will come whining about long compile times and errors that are impossible to find because there's 10000 lines of code, with lots of garbage in between.
Ok, I'll split the template into three files then.
The point is not exactly that newbies like everything in one big file. It's in fact that they often do know know or understand how to compile mutiple files projects, and when they do, they often do not know how to handle those multiple files properly, to avoid usual pitfalls like multiple declarations errors due to headers, or linker errors due to the lack of use of extern, and so on.
The point is not exactly that newbies like everything in one big file. It's in fact that they often do know know or understand how to compile mutiple files projects, and when they do, they often do not know how to handle those multiple files properly, to avoid usual pitfalls like multiple declarations errors due to headers, or linker errors due to the lack of use of extern, and so on.
Hence the raison d'etre of Allegro's demo game.
It's fine if it is a multi-file project, as long as it's clearly commented and documented, so that we can say if you want to know how to make a multi-file project, just look at Allegro's demo game.
EDIT: not to say that the demo game has to be multiple source files, but it'd be ok for it to be so. Certainly so if we're to have a page with all entries available for download.
Since the template isn't posted (so I won't start on the demo game yet) What did you have in mind for the web site?
I was thinking as far as public pages go:
a welcome page, listing details on the whole project/competition/whatever,
a public page for listing all the projects, their team members, a small description field for each proj., maybe a 160x120 screen shot that can be clicked on and enlarged for each proj.... oh and a download
link, maybe the template will be the first listed project on this page.
public signup/login pages
As far as private pages go: a couple of private pages, where each user can manage their project....
sound good?
I can't guarantee this site will stay up longer than 6 months after the projects are all done and over, but I can put something mostly functional up for the now... It will take a couple of days tho, I'll get started on it tonight unless anyone thinks that this is really not needed, or unless anyone else steps up to the plate...
Sorry, I started with my summer games demo, so I kinda forgot to update the demo template and to post ithere.
Current state is attached.
I'm quicker than I thought I was. Unless anybody has any objections, I put together a site for this, and everyone interested can head over and register up/post screen shots, and a downloadable zip/post news/leave feedback/manage their projects (description, name, etc) I'm impressed, you should be too.
Awesome Mike!
Can you put the requirements for qualification up there? They're in the first post (except for Shawn's `Welcome to Allegro' sample). This should probably be extracted from the demo.dat file and uploaded for download.
It's no big deal if the site can't stay up longer than 6 months after the competition. Once the winner is known, all the games and sourcecode (including that of the current demo) should move to Allegro's homepage anyway as an addition to the demo that comes with Allegro.
Damn, that's really cool. Simple and easy to use it seems.
Too bad I'm so busy in school, otherwise I would've started working on a demo already. But, if you're learning openGL, there is no time for anything else...
I hear there's need for an AllegroGL demo too.
Hmm, yeah, that's a nice idea...
But I think that's gonna have to wait 'til summer...
And I have to figure out some nice gamedesign...
Perhaps, Dropzone3d that I've thought about making before...
OK, I addded the requirements on the News page (the first one that comes up) and just to clarify, if anyone wants to post any news item, you can just log in and click "make announcement", (but don't abuse this privlidge or I might have to revoke it from your account, as long as it's something related to this event, and it's not offensive, blah blah blah, you have nothing to worry about :-)) Right now there is no mark up in the posts, so I think I'm going to try to adopt the allegro way of marking things up. with the square brackets, etc... I should be home again in about 10 hours so, lets see what starts to happen on the site -- this is exciting (first site I've done with an actual functional purpose...)
Looks fine. You may want to add my name somewhere to the requirements, as it's basically a cut&paste from my first post in this thread.
Do you want links to images of Al and Alex and the Allegro logo?
Oh, just one nitpick: it's Shawn, not Sean.
The point is not exactly that newbies like everything in one big file. It's in fact that they often do know know or understand how to compile mutiple files projects, and when they do, they often do not know how to handle those multiple files properly, to avoid usual pitfalls like multiple declarations errors due to headers, or linker errors due to the lack of use of extern, and so on.
Personal experience: when I started coding using C and Allegro really didn't know about multiple file projects - my first multiple file projects actually were one .c file with a lot of .h files which declared&defined functions used in the .c file. Only after a few projects I discovered how to handle this properly, so I would say: use a few source files for the demo but not too much because it's really frustrating if you look for something in an example/demo and it appears to be in another source file. And of course explain why & how.
Including a guide to modular programming in the demo folder might be a good idea.
Do you want links to images of Al and Alex and the Allegro logo?
Sure... I'm also thinking about posting the template up there as a download... -- I'd like to see a few more people sign up and post their planned projects/status/screen shots/playable demos in progress etc...
I made the corrections you suggested, feel free to nitpick -- I did add some typecasting functionality for bullets, but I havent compiled it into the release that's running on the site at the moment, I want to add a few more things and then compile them all in at once to minimize the down time([url] comes next...)
...I might also post a resources section, and a small forum if I feel it... 
Ok, the relevant links are:
[url http://alleg.sourceforge.net/logos.html]
[url http://alleg.sourceforge.net/images/al_couch.png]
[url http://alleg.sourceforge.net/images/alex.png]
The Welcome to Allegro wav should be attached to this post. I can't check because I don't have a soundcard in my computer at the moment.
I like this one, but I don't think video fits in...
http://alleg.sourceforge.net/images/logos/eric_pietrocupo/logo1.jpg
I like this one, but I don't think video fits in...
http://alleg.sourceforge.net/images/logos/eric_pietrocupo/logo1.jpg
Holy photoshop filters, Batman!
I like that one too -- it's neat.
Umm, sorry about the site being down earlier today, it's back up again, maybe cable company killed the internet while I was at school and I had to come home and manually ressurect it -- it's back up now, so feel free to register make announcements, etc... (no data was lost or anything, the site was just offline)
If anyone ever decides to use that logo for anything, I will personally come to their house and break their kneecaps*. Let's bury that thing in frozen carbonite, burn the carbonite, feed the ashes to hungry dogs, burn the dogs, and freeze the remains in carbonite. Then blast it into space.
* Not really.
Back on topic, how are the demo games coming along?
Seems like no one has registered a project as of yet.
I actually started on something small myself, that Nibbles clone I've been meaning to make. I'm not sure if I'll actually enter it though. For now, I'm busy getting my computer up and running to full capacity.
What's more important for a demo game, making an example which shows off a lot of Allegro, or soemthing that might not show as much, but is a fun game?
Or should we have two sections?
What's more important for a demo game, making an example which shows off a lot of Allegro, or soemthing that might not show as much, but is a fun game?
I'd say try to do both, but the emphasis should be on how it shows you to use the library and what it is capable of. We need a demo where we can tell people to look at the source to see how it's done. If it's a fun game that's a plus, but it's not nescessarily the point of a demo game.
The only registered users, as of right now, are me, and someone who goes by "lucky_monkey" but no project for him yet...
I've got a project started, if I will finish it, no idea -- I've got two huge programming final projects due for this quarter on the 16th... So the site might not get any TLC from me until after that date (which might be after the demo compo is over, and I might not get to make/finish my game 
) anyway...
Feel free to register, put up downloads, etc, there's no file size limit for the zip files/image files, but be respective that one image is supposed to be small, and one big... (maybe an enlarged version of the small?) anyway...
The site seems to be chugging along just fine right now -- I wonder who can make X-G's post into a game? "Launch frozen dog remains into space!"
edit: by the way -- as far as legality goes, can we use public domain gfx/sfx/music in our game?
I've got two huge programming final projects due for this quarter on the 16th... So the site might not get any TLC from me until after that date (which might be after the demo compo is over, and I might not get to make/finish my game ) anyway...
Don't worry, the competition will run beyond the first release candidate at least, and probably after that. I also think it's only fair to announce the deadline for the end of the competition two weeks in advance.
I think Elias also has a point that we should try to synchronize the release with the next release of AllegroGL if one of those is forthcoming too.
edit: by the way -- as far as legality goes, can we use public domain gfx/sfx/music in our game?
As long as you know for sure that it is free, I guess so. But if you do, you should credit whoever made it originally and probably contact them regardless. Bear in mind that if it ships with Allegro, it implicitly falls under Allegro's license and I think the author has to give permission for his work being distributed under this license.
If it's in the actual public domain you can do absolutely whatever you want with it...
Some weeks ago I read a book about video game making. I had some ideas about a simple space-shooter. It would have:
Fake 3D stars background.
Simple tile background, to make it less monotonous.
Two different enemies: one only shoots, the other tries to collide with the player.
The enemy waves and tilemap are programmable with simple byte-codes.
Now I have some free time, so may be I can finish it, but I'll need help to create some enemy waves, graphics and music.
[edit]
I forgot to say that I started to code it some time ago, but I did it in Spanish, so I should translate it to English.
Also it has more than one C file. May I keep it multi modular or should I put all in one file?
And should I put the main funcion in the bottom of the file? I prefer to put it the first.
[/edit]
I have some nice'n'easy turtle graphics code that could be used for vectory stuff like Asteroids and lasers and such, or an interactive LOGO-like demo.
YeeHaw -- 4 users now! -- 2 projects -- wow this is going to eat up a lot of disk space -- I better upgrade to a 10mb hdd...
anyway... It's 1AM, -- Hey Evert, I was thinking maybe you should sign up, and I can change that news post over to being in your name -- (can't change a news post over to a non-account, and I didn't want to make an account for you, when you could make one on your own, etc...)
I have some nice'n'easy turtle graphics code that could be used for vectory stuff like Asteroids and lasers and such, or an interactive LOGO-like demo.
ETCH-A-SKETCH!
Ok, I've signed up.
Whadda ye mean it's 1AM? I just managed to get to work through half a metre of snow and dysfunctional trains and public transport (luckily, I could get a ride).
Seems like no one has registered a project as of yet.
Should I register a depot project?
I decided to start with the boring part, and player name entry / country selection is working.
I then started to create the sprites for the diving event.
EDIT: NM, found the "allegro demo game" website
Should I register a depot project?
Sorry, I meant on Michael's page.
I wouldn't hold it compulsory to register there, but it's nice to have some idea on who is joining the competition and what sort of ideas people have for a demno game.
I better upgrade to a 10mb hdd...
That doesn't sound like much...
half a metre of snow and dysfunctional trains
Been to the north of this beautiful country, haven't you? Didn't have any problems traveling from The Hague to Lelystad and back just yesterday, although I wouldn't have thought in my wildest dreams that I would ever have to change trains on a station called 'Almere Oostvaarders'.
Ok Evert -- Now you've posted it -- Not much else I plan on doing with c/allegro for at least a week or so here, and the site seems to be chugging along happily enough...
That doesn't sound like much...
Nevermind -- I was playing with the idea that it was 1am and I didn't feel very normal. No substance abusage was involved.
Just an alternate logo idea (attached)
Feel free to mess with it