DESOS...
Specter Phoenix

I know it is a huge task but out of pure boredom I've started working on my own operating system. Destined Entertainment Studios Operating System or DESOS for short. I've not worked out all the features but I may use it in the very, very distant future as my gaming OS. I've started capsulating everything and I've started working on the possible GUIs, sound, and graphics stuff (with the help of detailed information from web sites about the topics). Right now I'm running it off a floppy so that if I mess up it can be rebooted into Windows just by restarting the computer and removing the floppy. There aren't any features that are worth mentioning right now because I'm only doing test runs of DESOS.

Thomas Fjellstrom

wow, so you have your own task scheduler, virtual memory system, and a good filesystem setup? I wan't to try it :D

Specter Phoenix

It's all majorly buggy and faulty but yes I have those sort of working. That is why I've not released any demo of it. Maybe I'll get Matrix OS and see what they did with that to determine where I'll go with DESOS.

[edit]Feature wise of course.

Derezo
Quote:

gaming OS

You do realize that something like that is going to require OpenGL support or equivalent? :o

It's not feasible for one person to create their own OS.. especially one intended for gaming. :o

Evert

I agree with Derezo. Besides, the last thing we need is yet another operating system.
Don't get me wrong. If you like playing around with it for fun, that's fine. If you intend to do anything serious with it, I would suggest you look into modifying an existing Linux distribution instead.

Specter Phoenix

There has been a misunderstanding. I have no intention of releasing it pass a demo stage. As I said earlier it is my own OS which I meant that it will only exist as my personal OS with internet capabilities, programming capabilities(GCC, G++, MinGW32(which is going to be the difficult part of them all)), graphics, and will mainly be for just me doing research, surfing the web, and programming games. Also I may have forgot to mention it earlier but all of these components are already started and either functioning at a beta level or fixing to be function after fixing my syntax errors. I've been working on DESOS for almost a year now in secret and thought I would announce it just for fun with no intention of releasing a final version, just one demo and that is it. Since I've quit using Allegro I've stopped posting as much on the forums and I've been on IRC less but my biggest secret is that I've been making games while learning to make DESOS. My games include a tetris clone called Block Drop, a solitaire clone named Solipet (solitaire with pet themed cards), a side scroller named Dragomon (working on this one now actually), and I have a design doc for a RPG. The bad news is that since I don't use Allegro any more and that between programming, work, and my wife I have no time to make a site so these games will just collect dust even after I get DESOS completed 100%.

Carrus85

An OS for games is a little bit overkill, if you ask me.

Although, having a decent OS for desktop users (BESIDES windows and BESIDES some of those strange linux distriubtions that install junk that you really don't need... your installing a desktop; DO NOT INSTALL SERVER STUFF PLEASE!!!!).

It would be nice for a DECENT desktop distribution of linux to come out that operated very similarly to at least MacOS X, and windows would be preferable. It would be nice to get a linux-based OS that works like windows; doesn't complicate things, require you to launch shells to run programs, etc. Heck, have it so it doesn't even allow you to configure anything that requires root access unless you are logged in directly as root.

Linux is great; it is those computer idiots out there who don't program for linux/don't want to "waste time" on linux that are keeping it from spreading.

Inphernic

Screenshots? Of this 'operating system' or your games? ..thought so.

Chris Katko
Quote:

existing Linux distribution instead.

Yick. If every OS uses/is linux, every OS will have the same flaws as linux (<-please lets not go into that though). I don't think any OS should have a monopoly. It allows more variety.

I have a idea for an operating system that I may work on in the future. It's what I consider module based. Each module can be reset/shutdown/patched/etc without touching any other module (except submodules) and the ones required to install the driver (file i/o module, assuming it's not already in RAM).

So you could in theory reinstall almost the entire OS while it's running. :) And you could be playing quake during the process as well.

Derezo

Chris: In the case of linux, you wont inherit all of it's flaws, because most of it's flaws are in it's user friendliness. Plug and play, user interfaces, and all that type of stuff.

You can change all of that without affecting the base on which the OS operates.

You'd still have problems like driver issues, but that's not a huge problem if you know the hardware you're working on.

Rampage
Quote:

I have a idea for an operating system that I may work on in the future. It's what I consider module based. Each module can be reset/shutdown/patched/etc without
touching any other module (except submodules) and the ones required to install the driver (file i/o module, assuming it's not already in RAM).

That's an OS architecture, known as microkernel. It provides only the four basic services (process management, memory management, low level i/o and IPC), and all other stuff is managed as daemons or servers.

GNU has been trying to get one of these for a long time, it's called The Hurd, but they haven't made much progress. That's why we have to stick with Linux.

Specter Phoenix

Inphernic: They are windows only games right now. Once I get everything for DESOS then I plan to attempt to make ports of my games for DESOS. I've not implemented a screenshot function for the simple fact that they were games that I have no intention of releasing any games until I start the RPG. As for DESOS it's just for my use so there will probably be no screenshots of that either just the demo if no one downloads it oh well.

Yes making a gaming os is overkill, but ask entheh I'm obsessed with overkill projects. Thankfully this overkill project is coming along nicely.

Inphernic

And I built a MMORPG 50x the size of Morrowind in 34 minutes, 2 seconds yesterday. It looks better than Doom 3 & HL2 combined. I have no screenshots because my speakers don't work. Oh well!

ReyBrujo

I had that idea with a friend when I was at school, for a project (ugh! 5 years ago! I am getting old!). The teacher told us it was not worth. Why? Because if you want to make games faster, improve the video and sound drivers instead of writing an OS.

If you can do it, go for it!

Evert
Quote:

It's what I consider module based. Each module can be reset/shutdown/patched/etc without touching any other module (except submodules) and the ones required to install the driver (file i/o module, assuming it's not already in RAM).

Linux can do that. You can load and unload drivers on the fly and change the configuration without having to reboot like in Windows.
Kernel updates are about the only thing I think that really requires a restart.

Anyway, all I was saying is that if you want to build your own operating system, you can probably save yourself a lot of trouble by looking at an existing open source operating system. Linux is the obvious choice, but FreeBSD should do just as well. Even FreeDOS might be interesting.

Trezker

The game named Dragomon got me interested, any more info?

Peter Hull

If you're interested in tiny OSs, try Menuet - it's GPL, mostly written in assembler, has a couple of graphics demos, web server, media server, http client, mail client, text editor and compiler (it can build itself) all on one floppy.

For microkernels, check out L4 which works on MIPS, PowerPC, x86 and ARM processors. It claims to have addressed some of the performance issues that killed microkernels about 10 years ago (Chorus, Mach etc) but it is at the University Research stage.

I think it would be possible to make a focussed, mini OS for games that would go on a floppy. If you use GRUB, that will boot to protected mode, load an ELF binary with any associated data to memory, and give you a pointer to a VBE3.0 interface for graphics. You'd only need input and sound drivers.

Having said all that, for most people the effort:reward ratio for writing an OS would be too high - very difficult to debug, for a start, and, if you wanted modern hardware support, it would be a constant game of catch-up on the driver side.

I hope this won't delay DES's first games release, which I am really looking forward to.

Pete

Bruce Perry
oed.com said:

capsulate, a.

Bot. Obs.

Furnished with or enclosed in a capsule; formed into a capsule; capsuled.

Specter Phoenix

DESOS is going nicely but it is being put on hold for now so I can work more on my present project(s).

BAF

use sometihng like BOCHS (or preferably) vmware or ms virtual pc to test it in ( i can send you a copy of vmware if you like ;))

Inphernic
Quote:

programming capabilities(GCC, G++, MinGW32(which is going to be the difficult part of them all))

So you are porting MingW? Minimalist GNU for Windows? What kind of a bootloader do you have? How are you handling kernel memory allocation? How about program execution? Multitasking? TCP/IP stack? How are you accessing/polling external devices and their states & features?

To be truthful, I don't think DESOS exists. DESOS is 100% certified bogus. I am not convinced by words alone.

Quote:

DESOS is going nicely but it is being put on hold for now so I can work more on my present project(s).

Which are...? A superhyperfantastic game, which you can't post screenshots of because it's raining outside? A superhyperfantastic AI which emulates the brain completely and acts exactly as a human being would - but you have nothing to show because the letter C comes right after letter B?

Specter Phoenix

Ok I've had fun with making sound like it is just me doing all this but I'm not alone making these things. I've kept is secret but I'm going to IU for the computer science course (which from what I hear is one of the best colleges for getting a degree in programming). Reason I kept it secret is that most people hate IU and others love but more of them hate it from my experience. The DESOS was only named DESOS after we realized I'm the only one that already have a company name picked out for game production. Our instructor is the same for all of our programming courses so four guys said they would like to make a game os for their final senior project of the course. The instructor told them ok but they would have to show their progress at each of the courses final and a final release must be done by our 4th year. That is how IU courses usually work but for the most part they let you pick a project, display a working demo at year one, and build on it each consecutive year til it is completely done in year four using what you have learned from your books and courses.

I liked the idea and requested to join their group cause two of the guys were my friends so they accepted:). That is how the idea for DESOS was born.The team is me, Kyle, Joe, Greg, and Rock (yes that is his birth name, weird parents) and of course just like in high school I'm stuck doing the research for the OS while they do the layout and then we are breaking the programming into tasks. For the gaming os we each had to think of a game to play under the OS so I thought up Block Drop, Joe came up with the Dragomon, Greg and Rock came up with Solipet together, and Kyle is a transformer buff and thought up a Transformer RPG. I'm researching programming operating systems right now as I'm typing this. Now you see why I can't post pics of any of it because we don't have complete versions really done plus I don't know if our instructor will let us publish it online or if it will forever be IUs student projects.

Bruce Perry

It's your intellectual property unless you actually signed it away at some point. Of course you do need the group's permission.

Inphernic
The Supreme Overlord Of The United Duckie Horde said:

So you are porting MingW? Minimalist GNU for Windows? What kind of a bootloader do you have? How are you handling kernel memory allocation? How about program execution? Multitasking? TCP/IP stack? How are you accessing/polling external devices and their states & features?

So not only did you steal credit from other people and lie, but you also tried to evade those questions?

IF it is functioning even nearly as well as you have already described, surely you are able to answer at least some of those questions and fire up a conversation. But of course, you manage to contradict that already with your "I'm researching programming operating systems right now as I'm typing this.".

You still have not displayed any proof whatsoever. And your word certainly isn't proof. Waiting for your next evasion.

Specter Phoenix

Inphernic I want to answer those question and I would if I was team leader but Kyle is the one that makes of the rules for our college project. He has decided that we can tell the name of the OS but nothing else otherwise we get kicked off the team and that would make m fail for the semester:(. I'll talk to him and see if he will let me at least post the answers here and then I'll answer all questions and post as many screenshots as you can stand;D.

The researching is trying to make it the best OS that college students can make. The thing I hate is that Kyle and the others think it will be possible to continue this after our course is done and want to then try to make DESOS support Windows programs, Linux programs, and Mac Programs???. If I can't talk some sense into them I may drop from the team and answer all your questions just to p*ss them off>:(.

Inphernic

A quick peek into my crystal ball reveals the contents of your next post - "Kyle didn't allow me to post any info but we will be supporting space rockets too".

Quote:

some sense

Considering that you have started this project, 'sense' surely is something that is not in abundance.

Bruce Perry

Harbinger. Read your last post. Take special note of the words, "we can tell the name of the OS but nothing else".

Now read all your other posts.

Uh oh.

Carrus85

I'm dumb!... Best OS college students can make? BSD anyone?

23yrold3yrold

You people are so supportive. ::)

phate

OS design/creation can be hard.

Inphernic: hes is keeping his trap shut because he wants to. I'm keeping my trap shut on my OS Project because I have to (You want to talk about NDAs let me tell ya... oh, wait, I can't :P). Also he isn't getting paid to do this so at all so cut him some slack will ya?

Thomas Fjellstrom

phate: Slamming people is part of Inphy's personality. maybe its even a hobby. But thats probably stretching it.

Bruce Perry

I support Inphernic. All evidence indicates that Harbinger is trying to get a reputation of being much more skilled than he really is. In other words, he is trying to steal the recognition that some of us have worked hard to obtain. This is antisocial behaviour.

Don't you agree, Tomasu? :P

Thomas Fjellstrom

I don't see any edvidence one way or the other in Harbingers case. So I see the glass as half full ;)

Evert

Contradictions, such as

Quote:

I know it is a huge task but out of pure boredom I've started working on my own operating system.

vs

Quote:

Ok I've had fun with making sound like it is just me doing all this but I'm not alone making these things. I've kept is secret but I'm going to IU for the computer science course (which from what I hear is one of the best colleges for getting a degree in programming).

and

Quote:

I've not worked out all the features but I may use it in the very, very distant future as my gaming OS.

vs

Quote:

The thing I hate is that Kyle and the others think it will be possible to continue this after our course is done and want to then try to make DESOS support Windows programs, Linux programs, and Mac Programs. If I can't talk some sense into them...

not to mention

Quote:

He has decided that we can tell the name of the OS but nothing else otherwise we get kicked off the team and that would make m fail for the semester.

vs

Quote:

... I may drop from the team and answer all your questions just to p*ss them off.

severely erode credibility IMO. Quite frankly, I don't believe the things Harbinger said here about his own OS - it feels too much as a bundle of inconsistent lies and half-truths to me. I can't understand what he'd stand to gain by it, but frankly I don't particulalrly care either.
If he wants to make his own Operating System that can run Windows programs, it doesn't bother me, wether it is imaginary or not.

Inphernic
Mr. OS Project said:

hes is keeping his trap shut because he wants to

If he would want to do that, why does this thread exist?

Mr. OS Project said:

I'm keeping my trap shut on my OS Project because I have to

Guess what? I don't believe you have a serious "OS Project" or are under an NDA! :-*

Scourge of the Seven Mounties said:

Slamming people

"Slamming people" is not a personality trait, it is more of a response to another personality trait or specific event/action.

Scourge of the Seven Mounties said:

So I see the glass as half full

You and your illusions of optimism! Hark - soon the whole world will be overrun by the Horde and the glorious anthems of pessimism will fill your consciousness! Decadence is a virtue! Muahahaa~ Gwahahaa~ Gyahaha*cough* cough wheeze cough

Thomas Fjellstrom

I already am fairly pessimistic. Just like I don't belive you are ever sory for going "too far".

Inphernic

That's not pessimism. That's realism. ;)

Seriously though, I am - my conscience just doesn't kick in within matter of seconds. Repeated 'violations' of course might have led you to believe otherwise. The only 'sorry' that really works is the one which you deliver straight to the person, face to face - which would also be the only 'proof' available of one's true intentions.

Thomas Fjellstrom

Not even that works. I've had people that terrorized me appologize before. Not only didn't it help, I didn't belive a word of it ;)

edit: Not saying you've terrorized me mind you, that was just an example.

Matthew Leverton

Maybe he's sitting at home laughing at all the people who argue back and forth about something silly he made up? ::)

Kanzure

Or maybe, he's not laughing, and he's crying on the Throne, at such a waste his life has become..

Maybe demons have overtaken his sole! RUN!

::) What a piece of crap, who cares?

Goodbytes

I'm sorry to hijack this thread but I just wanted to announce that four months ago, I inherited a solid gold house from my rich uncle who owned 20% of Microsoft. You haven't heard of him because as part of the agreement he and Bill Gates made when he bought 20% (or one fifth) of the company was that he should be listed as over 2,000 separate investors. Also he game me $2 billion with the house with which I have built a giant robot (called RAG - Robotic Automated Genie) that will do anything I ask it to (like make me orange juice, break stuff, set fire to stuff and more :)). However the robot became too powerful so I battled it in a kung-fu fight which lasted over three days but it is now a pile of scrap metal :). Also I wanted to announce that I have designed a new kind of "quantum" processor which uses light to calculate things like Multiplication, Square Root, and Addition. I've asked Intel for advice on how to start my own processor plant and they say it isn't that hard and would like to begin doing business with me... so wish me luck!

Matthew Leverton

Screenshots? Of this 'house' or your robots? ..thought so.

Specter Phoenix

Matthew: since it's now May do you think we should let them in on the secret I pm'ed you about? After all I kept it going for a lot longer than I thought I could have kept it going.

BAF

hmm whats going on? /me smells fish

Kanzure
Quote:

/me smells fish

Really? I smell hot dogs :-/

23yrold3yrold
Quote:

Maybe demons have overtaken his sole! RUN!

I wouldn't sweat it. How much can new shoes cost, anyway?

gnolam
Red Dwarf said:

Lister: Sometimes, I think it's cruel giving machines a personality. My mate Petersen once bought a pair of shoes with Artificial Intelligence. 'Smart Shoes' they were called. It was a neat idea. No matter how blind drunk you were, they could always get you home. But he got ratted one night in Oslo and woke up the next morning in Burma. You see, his shoes got bored going from his local to his flat. They wanted to see the world, you know? He had a hell of a job getting rid of them - no matter who he sold them to, they'd show up again the next day! He tried to shut them out, but they just kicked the door down.
Rimmer: Is this true?
L: Yeah. The last thing I heard, they sort of... robbed a car and drove it into a canal... they couldn't steer, you see?
R: Really?
L: Yeah. Petersen was really, really blown away about it. He went to see a priest. The priest told him... he said it was alright and all that, when shoes are happy that they'd get into heaven. You see, it turns out shoes have soles...

Man this thread has degenerated :)

BAF

i know, that is why i was smelling fish :P

/me wants to be let in on Harbringer's and ML's sekret ;D

Inphernic
Quote:

Matthew: since it's now May do you think we should let them in on the secret I pm'ed you about?

You are someone in disguise? No matter who you are, you've sure gone through some trouble setting up those lame webpages and acting totally clueless overall. Not to mention being a CEO! :P

Quote:

Man this thread has degenerated

Bah! It's just starting to warm up! :)

Specter Phoenix
Quote:

You are someone in disguise? No matter who you are, you've sure gone through some trouble setting up those lame webpages and acting totally clueless overall. Not to mention being a CEO!

No. As for the CEO part, if everything goes as planned and I can finish paying my lawyer for his duties I will have all the proper paperwork filed to where DE Studios will officially be my game company by the end of the month (keeping fingers crossed on that one).

As for the May remark this thread was started late to make people hopefully not realize that it was a April Fool joke. Rock, Kyle, and Greg are actually just friends who I work with at Wal-mart and Greg can't speak or hear. I'm not really in IU yet due to money grant irritations. DESOS is my OS project but in the research stage only. The research is just to see what all goes into making an OS and to get a feeling on how to implement all of it. If I ever tried to make a OS I would never do it from scratch and the full OS name would be DESOS Linux.

As for the Block Drop, Solipet, Dragomon, and the RPG (which isn't really Transformers which Kyle really is obsessed with) are all projects I have design docs for. Block Drop is what I'm trying to make right now and then when I get that done I'm trying to quickly get Solipet done for my wife as a surprise anniversary gift (May 24 we will be married a year) and my wife loves solitaire and animals so I'm wanting to combine the two. I just have to figure out how to make a screenshot function using WinAPI so I don't have to do 'Print Screen' key, open image editor, paste, save, repeat...I would rather simply do if(key), automatically save image and increase the save number everytime I press the key (ie scrsht001.bmp, scrsht002.bmp, scrsht003.bmp, etc).

Richard Phipps

April Fool jokes that's not on the 1st of April don't quite work.. ::)

Kanzure
Quote:

I wouldn't sweat it. How much can new shoes cost, anyway?

Depends, with the fish it's half priced ;)

April fools? I missed something.......

Oscar Giner

Hmmmm... 1st April fool jokes must be done... 1st April. If you do them 20th April, they're no longer 1st April fool jokes, they are 20th April Harbinger ZERO jokes ;)

Inphernic

Falling back from sad excuse to another. Would you have 'revealed this to be a joke' if it would've not been questioned? I'll vote for 'no'.

23yrold3yrold

Well, Matthew apparently knew beforehand, so I'd say you're a sucker, Inphernic. :)

Goodbytes

Well, anyone can send a PM to Matthew and try to make it appear like they're in cahoots. So I'd say Harbinger has exhausted his credibility.

Derezo
Quote:

Would you have 'revealed this to be a joke' if it would've not been questioned? I'll vote for 'no'.

Do you ever reveal a joke until it's questioned? ;D

To be honest. I really don't care either way. None of this thread interested me at all, because of how "Monday-thread" it sounded.

All I did was mention how impossible it's going to be... whenever someone says they're making an OS, I never take it seriously. If they were serious, they'd have posted it on the front page of their website, with screenshots and technical information, a design team, programming team, marketting team.........

phate

Inphernic: Savant's OS is based of linux.
So we aren't starting from stratch like Harbringer pretended he was.
I've talked about it a few times not enough to give anything away except...

X11 is dead! Long Live X11!

Inphernic
Quote:

Do you ever reveal a joke until it's questioned?

The joke revealed itself in numerous ways, and I do not usually spoil other people's jokes. Furthermore, it was the 1st of April, so the proper course of action was to play along. ;)

Quote:

I'd say you're a sucker

Sucker for pointing out that this was nothing but a lie to begin with? I'd use the term 'sucker' for someone who actually believed Mr. Destined Harbinger CEO was doing an OS. Hell, doing anything.

But I'm just happy Matthew hasn't told anything about MY secret PM to him!1~

Kanzure
Inphernic said:

But I'm just happy Matthew hasn't told anything about MY secret PM to him!1~

Oh boy, do I have news for you...;)

We all know. We are watching you. Be afraid. Be very, very afraid.

jhuuskon

Yeah. We all know it was you there on the mink farm.

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