I don't know about you guys, but most of my life, ive felt incredibly alone with no one to talk to and I find it very hard to become motivated or drag myself out of boredom.

The situation gets worse as time goes by, especially since high school started, since I was around a much larger group of people which just made me feel even more alone and worthless.

I am naturally shy and I much rather listen than open my mouth( even though I would love to open my mouth and talk but all these years have taken their toll on my self-esteem), much like some of you I assume.

So I was wondering, if any of you have been able to get away from that mindset and open up to the world and no longer felt alone or worthless. And if you did get away from all that, how did you do it? I'd like to know heh.

I've been there. Hell, I still am. What you should do, though, is stop caring so much about the "real world". You've got an entire internet to live in instead. Many more interesting people to talk to there, like-minded people, people like us. What you gotta do is realize what a rotten place the world really is - the "real", physical world - and learn to distance yourself and your mind from all that. Go to the internet instead, it's so much better. It's the only refuge I've been able to find. I bet lots of people will tell you to "stick in there, it will get better later on", but that's honestly a load of crap. It doesn't help your position in the least, the present will still be as crummy as always, regardless of how many bright promises about the future people give you.

What I did was start writing, spewing my guts to the world. I know no one reads the stuff I write, but I write it anyway because I want to. It's much better than other things you could be doing, like going out on saturday nights and getting drunk off your arse. The "real" world is full of crap like that, memes that tell you how to be, how to behave and what to spend your time on. Believe me though, it ain't worth it. Make up your own mind instead and say "Screw the world, I'm gonna do whatever I want with my life, and if you're not fine with that, then why should I be around you?"

So the question is, what do you want to do with your life? What do you want to do right NOW?

The internet is just as lonely and boring as the physical world and its not always available.

I know things will not get better, they never do. My life should have gotten better when I met my girlfriend, but that just gave me more reasons to think the way I do.

I would love to write what I feel but I dont know where to start, im afraid I am unable to do most things without being told what to do. So in the case of writing, I wouldnt know what exactly to write without some questions/topics to answer.

And I dont know what to do with my life. I was raised being taught to do what im told since im too stupid to make my own decisions and thats pretty much drilled into my head. I'll be happy just doing what im told since then i'll know im not hurting anyone and someone has a use for me.

[*this was written to right after X-G's post]

SOB. I lost my entire (long) post TWICE.

---

I'm kind of in the same boat as your SSC. And I don't have the solution. Most of the reasons I'm where I am, are because of the idiots around me, making me miserable and preventing me from doing things I want to do. But I disagree with X-G. The Internet sucks. Most people on the internet are idiots with no care for your feelings or regret for what they say. They do as they please, and say what they want, with no care at all.

Life may suck for me currently, but I'm sure as hell not going to give up on it. Time will pass, and a lot of my problems will just fade away.

Join the army

Seriously, X-G has a point. Just figure what you want to do and do it. Simple as that.

This was also written write after X-G's post

In the past, that's how I would have described myself. I still feel that way sometimes, but not nearly as much as I used to. About the only time that I can Gaurantee I won't feel that way is when I try to take an intrest in other people. And as hard as it seemed to open my mouth and talk to people, sometimes I just bit the bullet and did it. I thought too myself, something like what X-G said "If they don't like what I say, or how I come off, I shouldn't concern myself." Remember out of the 18 hours of the day that I'm awake, some of these people you'll never see again, unless you want too. Also, being around outgoing people helps me too. If you can think of a person or a group of people who are really nice, or outgoing, or people who you can help, being around them may help. I didn't just come up with this stuff on my own, but it cam from someone much smarter than me, and it helped.

(and now for a long and debatable post)

Things will get better over time. You might not be able to see how, but they will. Having a girlfriend will do one of two things. 1. Cover up your problems. But they will still be there. Or 2: Bring existing problems to the surface. If you had a low self-esteem beforehand, it will just magnify that.

You'll eventually find what you want to do. But your young (and so am I). Don't be in a rush to know what your purpose is. Try stuff, and find out what you like. It's OK if it's not immediately apparent. Though I've got two books you might like:

1. The purpose driven life: What on earth am I here for?
2. Life Strategies for Teens

Also, your not too stupid to make your own decisions. You just have to make them more often and find out what ones fit your personality/character. I used to NEVER want to make a decision. And my reason may or may not be the same as yours. In addition to not knowing "what I wanted" I somehow felt safe in doing what others told me to. If I didn't make the decision, I couldn't be held accountable. "It's not my fault, I was following orders." It's part of being overly shy. And I'm slowly getting over that.

Well, if you want, we could give each other random questions to write about. Though your grammar and spelling will probably be ten times better than mine.

I would like to bring up a point. In the real world, if you're over 21 or out of school, you pretty much just live your life. You stay at home. You may go to a job. That's all. On the internet, you can also just do absolutely nothing - and do things only on your home system.

Don't you see they are almost the same? On the internet, you must force yourself to register at a message board and post, must force yourself to get an e-mail address. In the real world, you have to do the same. Force yourself to apply for a job. Force yourself to do go somewhere.

If you say life is a load of bull, and the internet is so much better, how come there are the same simularities? Hmm. If you're great on the net, theres no reason why you shouldn't be the same out of net.

Would be a good way to get me talking.

And ill have a look at those books

Edit: Cant read what I cant buy

If I dont find out soon, my family will get rid of me and I have no one to turn to for help

This may sound strange, but who cares. We're all a bit mental inside.

Fake it. Fake some kick arse dude you really admire. Do it.

Or do what I've subconsciously done my entire life! Forget everything, Ignore everything! Works every time

If you have any interests then boredom isn't an issue. If you don't have interests, find some.

Loneliness is a mindset. Change it. If you keep repeating that you're a loser then it won't help. You don't have to say "the world is perfect" every minute but at least drop the negatives.

Then get out a bit.

What on Earth gave you that idea?

Anyway; I got 20 bucks that says most of you whiners are less than 20 years old. I didn't get out of my rut (believe me; I can relate) until I was 23 or so, so have a little patience. Most teenagers go through this crap, believe it or not

Last post:

I got 20 bucks that say that those of you who think it's as simple as "dropping the negatives" or "waiting it out" or "growing up" or whatever never really were in our situation. You may think that you were, but my 20 bucks say you really never were.

I knew you'd say that. "Yeah; no one's ever had it as bad as me!" Didn't see that coming ...

Sorry, X-G. You ain't been through nothin' that more people than you'd like to think have been through. And that's probably my last post too, because "You don't know what it's like!" is all my posts are likely to be met with. Good night, all.

Being unable to "drop the negatives", I think, is usually indicative of some form of depression. I know when I'm feeling particularly down, or depressed, there's no way on this green earth that I can just "think positive", or "drop the negatives". It is a literal impossibility when you're in that state. And no, a boyfriend/girlfriend/significant-other is by no means a cure. Some people are just naturally depressed (eg. constantly), some have environmental causes, others, like me, just have some sort of brain defect as a cause. It's unforunate that we don't understand it as well as we could yet, but the best thing to do is just to find something to eleviate the depression, and force yourself to do it. Easier said than done, I know, but there really is no one thing that will work for a good majority. It's all personal.

Yes.

I have.

About X-G's first post, while I don't agree that the Internet is enough, this is very solid advice:

Don't be too concerned about what others might judge you for. Unless you become a criminal or insult people regularly, noone is going to think bad of you.

Those things will work for the situation I was in and a lot of other people are in. They would help mildly in the case of a true depression, but in that case, it is indeed not enough.
If you have a real depression, then you should really look into getting professional help. They'll tell you a lot of nonsense and try to stuff you with pills (which they can't force you to take, so don't), but eventually it will help.

Now, as for what I did. I watched for opportunities to talk to people, then decided to be bold one day and ask a group of people to go see a movie. I offered to help out when an acquintence moved to a new place (she's now my best friend).
Growing more confident after that, I have adopted a more open attitude towards people. I show who I am and speak my mind. The idea is simply this: I now had a few friends, people I could be at ease with, so I knew that that was possible and if others don't take to me as I am, that's ok because I know it's not because there's something fundamentally wrong with me.
Being at ease with yourself really is the key to fight loneliness in the long run, but the road to getting there is hard and usually different for everyone.

23yr: Even IF you're right, it's rarely good to tell people who ask for help that they don't have a problem, right? - in that direction lieth eternal bickering!

I'm 31 now, and generally speaking, I must say I think things have gotten (quite) steadily better, regarding self-esteem and 'mental stability' - the biggest change was around 15-20, when the people around you mature enough to make 'picking on you' a less fashionable sport. (and I also started training martial arts)

In general, I think some kind of extroverted-ness is in order. If you can't handle taking an interest in the people around you, at least take an interest in the world/science/programming - navel-gazing has very limited application.

My recommendations:

• Try to (also) take an interest in something that also others than programmers can relate to - if you feel that others have treated you wrong, maybe you can do something with That? -Look into stuff like civil-rights/humanitarian movements/ amnesty, or something.. or maybe arts, so you can help me do graphics for my games?

• Try to learn how to talk with people - this is still pretty hard for me, since I don't seem to have the correct 'protocols' installed since my teen age - Don't just Force yourself to say something - find some interesting/casual subject that you can 'get into' with this other person. The toungue is the largest muscle in the body, I think I've heard somewhere

• Train something - sitting still makes you weaker, both mentally and physically; get some muscle-tone - it will improve your self-esteem, and make other guys less likely to pick you as a target

I have an uncomfortably good memory, so I think I remember more of these problems than most people do - I hate to say 'hang in there', but there's really nothing else to do, since change takes time in these matters, and you can't reverse stuff through some single action

Take some comfort in the fact that you WILL get to know yourself better as time goes by - try to grow into the person you Want to be - not the person people expect/want you to be. Being separate from others can also be an advantage; it's what allowed different speices to evolve, after all

Well, I don't think I said that. Just not a big fan of the "I know things will not get better, they never do" mentality.

That is terrible advice! With an attitude like that I'm not surprised you have trouble socialising.

Let me tell you a little story about my life:

I can say with 98% certainty that there was a stage in my life when I was more shy than any of you have ever been. Let me explain:

At the age of 11 we moved to Zambia. There was no school where we lived, and in fact there was no one my age there at all (except my brothers). We didn't even have a computer or TV! So I had no real social contact with anyone for more than a year. Prior to living in Zambia, we had moved at least once every two years.

We then moved to England and I started attending school again (had been home-schooling in Zam). For the first few months I just couldn't talk to people. I was so shy that if someone spoke to be, I would just look away and ignore them. Consequently I was bullied, -though luckily I could hold my own in a fight but that's another story...

I was so shy, not because I'm naturally a ridiculously shy person, but because I was out of practise. Nowadays I'm certainly not an extravert, but I'm not particularly shy either.

The moral of the story: If you sit in front of your computer day in and day out, then it is inevitable that your social skills are going to be poor.

If you think that the only form of social activity is:

then you are sadly mistaken. (though I have to admit it is by far the most popular ).

On the whole mild depression thing, my advice would be to get out! Try feeling miserable while on the beach in the sunshine, or cycling in the countryside or whatever. If you are suffering from serious depression then obviously you'll need more than just sunshine, but still it helps I'm sure .

I thought this was funny. Last night when I opened up this thread, I had to stop right there, close the window, and take a breather.

Although, some of X-G's points make sense.
- Vent somewhere. I need to take that advice myself
- Don't live by everyone elses rules. Not to say that you should go out looting the town, but if someone asks you to do something that you don't want to do, stand up for yourself.

Sounds like you just gotta break your shyness, like me. I know it's tough.

I'm stuck in a bad situation myself. I'm very wealthy for a child of my age, 19. I don't need to do anything if I don't want to... and, I don't do anything. I sit here sipping on a soda, playing games, chatting on the intenet.. all fucking day.. it's sickening. I hate it.. and soon, I've gotta get outta this rut.

How bout we trade? You can continue doing most of what you already do, just without most of the money. I'll happily take it off your hands

Don't feel like reading all the crap people wrote, but personally, no problems here, never had any.

So yea, just putting stuff in perspective.

On a side note, you must have a pretty crappy gf if you feel "incredibly alone with no one to talk."

Marcello

I gotta better idea. How about I go out and pay people to kiss!

Ok.. Fine I'll settle for a new PC 2100 DDR chip to replace the bad one I got But it can't be a cheap one... the VIA EPIA boards don't like cheap ram. Preferably 512MB, but 256 will be ok... (one chip, only one slot on the EPIA boards )

Now that would be funny. Tape it and show us it.

I actually considered doing just that.
I'd call it... womenkissformoney.com

"I've got a brown bill here. It's yours if you two kiss, for 10 seconds, and let me record it."

If only I could leave my room. Then I could work on leaving the house! reaches for refridgerator, inches away

Just get a mail order bride and be done with it, D.

SonShadowCat:

Take this test: http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/JTypes1.htm

Then, take the results (your personality type) and search the net for resources related to people just like you... personality descriptions, discussion forums, etc. You're not alone. There are others just like you out there. Hook up with them and learn to understand yourself better, and where you fit in. It's not likely that you'll be able to change your personality and suddenly become popular party guy or whatever. But, you can figure out what your strengths and "weaknesses" are, and make them all your strengths. Social life isn't everything, by far.

(not to bring this further off-topic but: )

Ooph. I didn't think of it like two woman were kissing. I just thought two random people. What you should do is whoever kisses longer (out of two sets of people) gets $50+-.

Phhbbbtt.. $50? I thought this was suppose to be interesting!

I know. I should hold a huge contest, with advertising and everything. One thousand dollar prize, for whoever can kiss the longest.
... afterall, this is the kissing capital of the world right? (do a google, can't find a very good example.. but there's the bottom of this page )

Of course, no contest goes without an alterior motive.. so, time to get building computers! That will keep marriages and relationships together!

Ok. I'm done bringing this off topic too This post was just wrong..

so? When shal I expect my ram to arrive? (or my DVD for that matter )

I`ve got INFP if anyone would like to know. I think I didn`t understand some questions (my english ) so this might be a bit inaccurate.
[edit: maybe I`m somebody between INFP and INTP]

That test seems like it may be inaccurate at best The test I took a while ago had 1-5 options, instead of just "yes" and "no"...

Theres no way I can possibly choose a accurate answer for a few questions if the only answers are yes and no.

[qoute]Theres no way I can possibly choose a accurate answer for a few questions if the only answers are yes and no.</quote>
There`s no way I can choose accurate answer for questions in which I don`t understand some words. I think I`ll try again with dictionary tomorrow.

Same here. Not everything in the mind is a simple yes or no answer. Certain things only apply in certain situations.

No, shes a great girlfriend. There are just factors that limit my interaction with her.

I took the test on windows and I dont have all the info( on linux now) but I know I was 67% introvert.

Problem is I cannot find something interesting to talk about with anyone.

I could care less about muscles and it will not improve my self-esteem. Some guys are already afraid of me and those that arent dont try anything.

Then i'll be totally screwed till im 18 and can leave.

I'd start by not doing crap like quoting yourself in your own sig.

Marcello

To 23: Well, then, have you been through severe depression during most of your childhood years? Have you had people telling you to "chin up" without motivating it? Do you know what it's like to be so deep in your own conviction that you're worthless and being constantly reminded of it when people refuse to understand? In short, do you suffer from severe clinical depression?
That's what I meant. Please don't read more into what I'm saying than I am.

Yes, yes, yes, yes (well, I did) and I didn't know I had.

I bet I started seeing a counselor/psychiatrist before you did. Beat Grade 2!

Heh, that would be easy, since I've never seen anyone and isn't going to either. Point is, in that case, you should know that just "dropping the negative" or "thinking positive" isn't going to do jack shit, right? It's not as simple as that.

Actually, it's very simple. The hard part is in the doing. But I did it.

Not to say I don't get a little down now and then, but I'm light years improved over how I used to be.

You know what I mean. Again, just telling us unlucky sods - because that's what we are, it's not like we chose this for ourselves - that we should chin up is just going to get us aggravated in anything, because really, all it does is make you feel misunderstood and even more alien than you already were. I know it did for me - you might call me living proof.

I should say something, having spoken to X-G on MSN about this thread.

When X-G said "situation" in his second post, he meant his state of depression, not the world around him.

However, X-G, you need to accept that "situation" was very much prone to misunderstanding. 23yrold3yrold and I both misunderstood you. It is not his fault that he misunderstood, so I don't think it's appropriate for you to criticise him for it.

More fundamentally, there's clearly an ongoing feud between you two. Neither of you has any patience with the other. So I suggest we stem the argument now. X-G, instead of griping that one person is being unhelpful, just take advantage of the posts that were more helpful (e.g. Kitty Cat's). 23, your posts are only likely to make X-G worse, so I suggest you don't reply to any more of X-G posts unless you can emulate the helpful attitude most of the other posters in this thread have.

Thinking positive is more than "chin up". It's things like choosing to be an optimist when you could be a pessimist in some situation. It's trying anyway when you could give up and say it's hopeless. If no one ever did these things, no one would ever be anybody. Yes it's simple, yes it's hard to do, and yes it works.

I know.

I wasn't aware I wasn't being as helpful as anyone else. What would you prefer I say?

Well, it is a rather simple test to begin with. Yes/no answers just serve two distinguish between the various temperment indicators... E/I, N/S, F/T, and J/P. I've seen a 4 question version (ie the whole test is 4 questions) and you can pretty much get the same results from it. It's not like an IQ test.

SonShadowCat: 67% Introverted isn't the whole test. If you get your temperment ID you can do a search for it on the net. There are whole online communities devoted to each type. I am an INTP, for instance, and there's a site for my type: http://www.intp.org. The descriptions for your temperment indicator are quite interesting and enlightening for answering some of those nagging questions and clarifying your own personality. When you see there are others like you, it's easier to accept yourself for what you are (if there was any doubt) and not be agonized about changing yourself to "fit in" with all the Feeling Extroverts.

For fun, here's that quick 4-question version... http://www.teamtechnology.co.uk/tt/t-articl/mb-simpl.htm. It clarifies a lot of the reasoning behind questions in the other test.

23, you're going to have to realize, though, that just telling someone that is like asking a starving man why he simply doesn't eat. It's just unthinkable, and just comes across as absurd and detached from reality. You say that it's not easy, and I agree, obviously - but then, don't make it out to be an easy thing. Try to have some sympathy.

I didn't say it was easy. I said it was simple. And I'm sorry if I didn't come across as unsympathetic; like I said, I've been there. I admit I'm being a bit blunt, but to be honest I find you awfully stubborn on this topic, so I don't know how else to be

I'm going to assume there's a negative too many there, heh.

Unfortunately cases like these are like Chinese fingertraps. The more you fight them, the harder it will be to get anywhere. No matter how hard you try, just trying to push the notion that thinking positive is going to help onto people like us just isn't going to work, because it's such an alien concept. You might as well be saying the moon is bright green and made of cherry poptarts. You gotta work on it, do what you can to come across as sympathetic and understanding. Don't mention answers at all, just state facts and earn trust; be understanding. Then slowly try to work people in the right direction, and let them spill their guts. I know you're likely to say something along the lines of "Can't be bothered to do that ", and that's fine, no one expects you to - but in that case, please be understanding enough not to mention anything at all unless you're ready to go all the way for someone. That's just asking for trouble.

Admittedly your posts have become more helpful since then, but calling X-G stubborn? That's drawing on the past. He's not being unreasonable in this thread.

Whoops. Yes.

Didn't say he was ...

I know. It was an alien concept to me too.

The problem with being sympathetic and understanding is that's what I did for Michelle. For two years. At the end of two years, she was in the same miserable state she was in before. I was getting somewhere and she wasn't, because I was doing something and she wasn't. I'm all for being understanding and sympathetic, but to a point. Then I'm just humoring your misery, and that's no good for anyone.

X-G: Why ... people are starving!? Let them eat cake!
Anyway, just wanted to respond to something from early in the thread:

I've read a bit of it -- it's pretty well written stuff, and has interesting ideas within. You have talent; keep it up.

To answer the OP: I went to a better school -- or, better still, I went to a tech college. And, when such options were not available, I read, wrote, and programmed as much as possible. Did stuff that gave a sense of progress; I feel like a better person if I can say "I wrote x" or "I read y" -- and books are a good discussion topic too, if you can find the right crowd later on.

I can understand that. Like I said, no one expects you to do anything. Remember though, that many people - me, for example - are bad at showing what they really need, and even worse at showing what other people mean to them. It can fluster a person and make them reluctant to ever help anyone again, and it's certainly understandable. No one said we were easy to deal with. Please think about what I said, though - getting in the game with no intention to go all the way is only going to make it worse for the person in question.

I honestly don't know what I can do for you there.
They sent it to you, and called me because it was refused on delivery.
Then, I told them to sit tight and I'll figure out what to do. Later, I told them to refund it, but they said it came with software which wasn't returned (which, we both know, it did not come with software). So, I told him that.. and he just kept saying over and over again in different phrases that it needs to come with the software.. so I kept saying it didn't come with the software, and eventually we just hung up.

So. I'd suggest calling them. Give them your RMA number if you've still got it, and explain the situation. Pray that you don't get a chinese man who says "fee gown shiffing"

Yeah, this should be a PM.. but.. I'm already in the thread!

Anyway. I cleaned my room today. That made me feel better. You should do the same! Get off your ass, stop using the computer, and do something.
Sure.. I paid someone to help me.. but, it got done, didn't it?

OK, so 23, are you happy just to avoid these arguments, instead of making X-G feel you won't accept what he says etc. etc.? Remember that X-G, you I think, and someone else (Tomasu was it?) got capped for something like this (unproductive bickering) - let's not let it happen again, K?

[EDIT]
SSC, sorry for not posting anything on the original topic of the thread btw - but I don't have anything to say that hasn't already been said. There's some good advice in this thread, and I'm sure you can identify it. Good luck

I never said I had no intention of helping. I certianly be better equipped to do that if you were local, mind you. All I can say is what I've said; I wasn't aware I was joining a game in progress. Personally, I find that at least beats doing nothing. If not, I'll just ignore everyone next "I'm depressed" thread.

Hey; I just did that!

Oh come now. That thread was far worse than this one (and still not even that bad, now that I think about it) ...

Ah, I think I may have expressed myself poorly. Let me try again.

Helping is a good thing, naturally, but it's a lot of work, and you have to start from the bottom end - establishing trust and all that - and work your way up. This can be a highly excruciating experience, but it has to be done this way. Any other way is a sure way to disaster. And in that case, it's best to just express your sympathy and move on, if you're not sure you're up for all of it.

Alright; I hears ya ...

Yeah.. I know I should call

But really, what about my ram

heh.. rrriiiiigggghhhhttt.
Maybe when (not if) I win my Million dollars.
I bought 5 tickets at $100 each in a local Cash for Cancer lottery. It's a sure thing, the drawing is on my Birthday.

A million dollars + drinking age = FUHN TYMES 4 ALLL!!!111`11`!!~

Anyway. Wait to buy ram. Honestly.
About a week ago, the price shot up $10 on 256mb sticks.
Just so happens I purchased 10 sticks at $44ea a few weeks before hand

I looked at the price last week.. was hellish. I'll have to wait to buy ram anyhow, as It'll take me many months to save for a single stick. IF I decide to be lazy, and not get as much groceries as I should.

edit:
FYI, my budget, after rent, for groceries and bills is $232. Bills usually comes to $100-$150 (usually $150). That leaves $80ish for a month of groceries. Now, thats normally not enough for a WEEK of groceries for a normal person...

I don't want to hear another one of these threads until the stubborn, selfish person has honestly tried to get over it by talking in person to a doctor, a professional, a pastor, etc and making a real effort to follow their advice. Otherwise, you are just wasting everybody's time.

Thank you.