I'm too tired to come up with unique content for this post so I'm just going to quote what I said in IRC.

00:22  * bambams is watching the infamous "Cuties".
00:22 <+bambams> There's only about 20 minutes left. So probably fair to
                 critique it now.
00:22 <+bambams> As with most movies that cause a stir and outrage, I suggest
                 you watch it. :)
00:22 <+bambams> It's nowhere near as bad as people are making out.
00:23 <+bambams> I would say it's probably more or less documenting what young
                 girls/women are currently experiencing, and it makes men
                 uncomfortable so you're not allowed to do it. Hah.
00:26 <+bambams> Thus far I haven't seen anything that I found offensive. There
                 has been one 5 minute scene that stood out as just being out
                 of context. And the choreography (sp?) and camera work was
                 pretty suggestive, but I interpretted it not as necessarily
                 being a real "scene" in the movie, but a scene literally
                 designed to make the audience uncomfortable.
00:27 <+bambams> The film has a lot of opportunity to exploit these girls, and
                 it DOES NOT do that.
00:27 <+bambams> I'd even argue that it's artistically well made.
00:27 <+bambams> And likely it is only upsetting American audiences because
                 they're so prudish about sex. :P
00:31 <+bambams> On the downside, now Netflix has recorded that I've watched
                 it, and it's French with subtitles so it probably also tracked
                 each time I had to back up to keep up with the dialogue. xD
                 Which for the most part didn't align with anything
                 incriminating, but sometimes there was dialogue during a dance
                 scene or whatever so I'm sure if you were *looking* to find
                 something you could... So there's that.
00:34 <+bambams> And a little Easter egg of sorts of an anecdote:
00:35 <+bambams> The protagonist is a young black girl. I'm too
                 autistic/stoned/tired/ignorant to know more than that. >_>
00:36 <+bambams> But basically her grandmother or at least a "old"
                 matriarch/female role model explained to this 11 year old that
                 when she was married (arranged marriage) her husband lifted
                 her dress to expose her nude body to all of his
                 friends/family. :P
00:37 <+bambams> And somehow the outrage mobs completely missed that point, and
                 are outraged that young girls growing up in the West in the
                 new millenium are exposed to sex at a young age in media and
                 it influences their development. That's not new though... We
                 all know that.
00:39 <+bambams> It kind of seems like anybody outraged by "Cuties" is actually
                 self-owning themselves by outing themselves as being
                 uncomfortable with young, developing girls. :P

Append:

01:09:28 <+bambams> Also, I'd like to add regarding the film, I think that it
                    could potentially be a positive viewing experience for
                    young girls. At least, for any of them that are dealing
                    with similar themes in their lives.
01:10:00 <+bambams> It's probably a perspective/story that isn't often told,
                    and in that sense it's kind of amusing in a sad sort of way
                    that the so called "social justice" warrior types are
                    actually trying to suppress it. :P

Append:

Now Netflix also knows that I liked it. I don't watch very many productions from outside of North America so to some extent I think it's also just refreshing to have a fresh culture's perspective on film. You see little touches that just seem to feel French. The closing scene is sort of genius.

Film seems alright to me. Marketing was atrocious. But hey.

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Yeah, I think that one's what caused the majority of the controversy (because of said taboo! scream!)

So here's what Maïmouna Doucouré (director) said:

I'm not sure whether Netflix's poster communicates this well. And I guess it's fine if it doesn't - but IMO they needed a better PR strategy to deal with it. Rather than defending the director's point above, they edited the poster, which kinda says "sorry we messed up" rather than "please try and understand what the film is about".

I'm not sure I could ever get into big business for precisely this reason.

That article isn't defending pedophiles, it's just saying that it's only a slice of the problem.

Of course in reality there's a sliding scale and the closer a person gets to 18 or 21 or some target age, the higher than chance that they should be considered an adult. But if you are an adult who is sexually attracted to someone who looks like a typical 13 year old and fantasizing about it, then you are disgusting and go get counseling now.

If you're saying you are sexually attracted to anybody who appears to be a mature adult, then that's fine, but you better be able to cool it when you realize the person isn't yet legally an adult. There's more to it being acceptable than simple physical appearance. Age is also a proxy for mental and emotional maturity too. And while it's not the perfect proxy, it's the best one we've got. There are billions of people in the world and thousands if not millions around you -- it's not hard to find someone who is both attractive and legally acceptable.

(Of course if she finds you attractive is maybe not so easy...)

Young people in general are frustratingly naive. It's exhausting being around them, having to listen to their stupid ideas, in a sense reminding you of your own embarrassing mistakes of the past.

That said, that's not something that disappears at or before 21. I'd say it very gradually wears away with age and/or experience. There are still times where the women my wife's age (I'm 34 and she's 29) are so naive that I have to leave the room because it's so painful to hear them.

My grandfather met my grandmother when he was 25 and she was 16 I think. They began dating and I think were married within a year or less and pregnant within months of that. I don't think it was even a big deal back then. They had 4 kids by the time my grandmother was 19 I think.

They were married for something like 55 years (she passed away a few years ago). Happily married, as far as I could tell. They did very well for themselves and for their extended family. Financially as well as wholesomely. I can only dream for my wife and I to do half as well as they did.

That's a fascinating take that I don't think has occurred to me.

I think that a point of the film is that kids are exposed to this in society. In media, in school, etc. This is already a fact of life for kids in the West. In a sense, Pandora's box is already opened, and it's not so easy to close it again. Parents have little control over it. In a sense, parents lost control of their kids decades ago. Corporations control children these days. And just like the social media corporations, fashion magazines and clothing manufacturers don't care much about the ethics or morality of their business. They only care about maximizing profits. Whatever it takes to sell.

We would require a general consensus from society to try to undo it, which you will never get because many women choose to dress sexily in their teens or younger and don't see the problem with it even as they get older and become parents. To them it's fashion, it inspires confidence, and helps them to fit in with peers. They probably are completely ignorant to how it may influence boys and men to behave, and even some of those that aren't see it as empowering for girls and women. The ability to make men uncomfortable alone is powerful in a sense.

I agree that it would be ideal to be able to roll back the clock somewhat on this. For many girls, it's not even a choice. It's a requirement to fit in. For example, thongs are less comfortable, less hygienic, and significantly more provocative than more traditional underwear options. Yet because some parents allow their daughters to have them many girls and most women are pressured to have them. "Yoga pants" are the latest trend in this area. Skin tight pants with soft, thin, and flexible fabric that perfectly conform to your body. When you're out at a casual social event pay attention to what women and girls are wearing. An alarming number of them are wearing the exact same black yoga pants as all the rest. Even young girls.

That said, there's also an argument to be made that too much modesty has the unintended side effect of making everything arousing (the extreme example being where everything is covered except for women's eyes). And there are countries where it's been normal for girls to dress provocatively longer than others and it doesn't seem to be causing as much trouble there because everybody is used to it.

To reiterate: the worst thing that we can do is not talk about it.

It's a bit of both. Parents are the major influence on a child, but unless you keep your kids locked up all the time and explicitly control what they watch, they're going to be exposed to sexualization by the media.

We try to do our best to keep them safe.

When my daughter started preschool, her teacher encouraged us to enroll her in some sort of dance studio. Mostly because she was a clumsy one and it would teach her balance. We had to turn away from a couple just because of the outfits the girls were wearing.

I don't plan on ever watching "Cuties" to verify, but it is supposed to be a film to expose the struggle these girls have to go through. Do they though? I don't think they do. How important is it that they have to belong to this club/studio?

This comes to mind.

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