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Earthquake in NZ
Johan Halmén
Member #1,550
September 2001

Two weeks ago, an earthquake hit Italy. It was a day before new moon. I thought in my mind that it will happen again after two weeks, when it's full moon. Well, it happened again one day before full moon. But in New Zealand.

No magic involved. It's a known theory that Sun and Moon affects not only the ocean, but also the whole shape of Earth being mostly liquid stuff, the solid crust of which will crack and wobble. Yet that theory doesn't seem to be very supported. It might be that the effect is not that big, compared to other factors that seem to trig earthquakes.

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Years of thorough research have revealed that what people find beautiful about the Mandelbrot set is not the set itself, but all the rest.

LennyLen
Member #5,313
December 2004
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It's not particularly surprising we had one here. We've been having them continuously since the 2010 quake. The difference with this one is that it has caused a tsunami. I can hear the tsunami warnings going off from where I am, and the streets are filled with people moving inland.

Mark Oates
Member #1,146
March 2001
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Is NZ generally more prepared for this kind of thing now?

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Gideon Weems
Member #3,925
October 2003

Yet that theory doesn't seem to be very supported.

I wonder if it ever will be. I have heard stories of entire colonies of ants emerging from their underground burrows a day before a major earthquake occurs. I also wonder if animals can sense impending lightning strikes.

video

LennyLen
Member #5,313
December 2004
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Is NZ generally more prepared for this kind of thing now?

Emergency services are very quick to respond now and new buildings are being held to higher standards, but apart from that, not overly no. There's only so much you can do when the ground decides it wants to kill everyone. ;)

edit:

It's a known theory that Sun and Moon affects not only the ocean, but also the whole shape of Earth being mostly liquid stuff, the solid crust of which will crack and wobble.

A few people have been thinking that the Moon being at it's closest in decades may have had an effect. Myself, I'm not convinced it would have that much effect.

Johan Halmén
Member #1,550
September 2001

It's half a meter on the sea level. Probably the same on the crust. Some quakes result in several meters of shifts, some only a foot or two.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Years of thorough research have revealed that the red "x" that closes a window, really isn't red, but white on red background.

Years of thorough research have revealed that what people find beautiful about the Mandelbrot set is not the set itself, but all the rest.

Bob Keane
Member #7,342
June 2006

How do you think the impending King moon this weekend will affect NZ? you will also have aftershocks.

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LennyLen
Member #5,313
December 2004
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Bob Keane said:

How do you think the impending King moon this weekend will affect NZ?

The scientific consensus is that it won't. While gravity does cause the moon to pull on the earth's crust, the moon is not going to be closer enough than normal to have any effect.

Quote:

you will also have aftershocks.

We've already had about 500 aftershocks that register 4.0 or higher.

type568
Member #8,381
March 2007
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Doesn't make much sense about full moon as it is Just about the angle between the solar beams falling at the moon and us, observers looking at it. It doesn't make any exceptional gravity or whatsoever. Moon's orbit isn't entirely circular, so sometimes it's gravitational force on earth is stronger, sometimes it is weaker. But these gravity phases have no direct correlation with moon's phases.

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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type568 said:

Moon's orbit isn't entirely circular, so sometimes it's gravitational force on earth is stronger, sometimes it is weaker. But these gravity phases have no direct correlation with moon's phases.

What? If it's a full moon (of which a supermoon is a subset) then the Moon and Sun are directly opposite each other, and spring tides are due. These tides also affect the land masses, although a usual rise of 6 inches isn't much. But this supermoon was closer than most, otherwise it wasn't a supermoon, and gravitational attraction increases as the inverse of the square of distance, so it could have been "the straw that broke the camels back" so to speak.

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

type568
Member #8,381
March 2007
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Well, talking of supermoon I agree. About a new moon though..
Hmm. Actually a new moon is when both sun, and the moon are pulling the earth towards same direction. So it actually is a stronger than usual gravitational force, and if this also happens to be the closest point on moon's orbit to earth, well yeah! This has to be exceptional.

I totally change my mind about the OP's observation!

LennyLen
Member #5,313
December 2004
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type568 said:

I totally change my mind about the OP's observation!

I wouldn't rely on gut feeling. There's decades and decades of seismic data that shows absolutely no link between proximity of the moon and increased seismic activity. I've read a few articles on the subject recently. The idea of a supermoon causing earthquakes isn't new, and people have been postulating the possibility for decades. There have been lots of studies done and not a single one has even found data that will show correlation, let alone causation.

What Arthur suggests is possible - the moon does still exert some force on us (even if insignificant under normal circumstances), but if a whole lot of other factors came together at the right time, the extra pull from the moon might be enough to do something that it couldn't alone.

type568
Member #8,381
March 2007
avatar

Interesting.

Nevertheless, the assumption first sounded silly to me, intuitively. Now after thinking about the forces, it's not as simple. However, if you say there's no statistical correlation, then probably it doesn't affect the earthquakes.

However, in my original thesis I dismissed the OP as the gravitation changes not having correlation with the new moon cycles. In an earth-moon system there really is no correlation in the force, unless you add supermoon which doesn't correlate with new moon.

But then again, I did forget the Sun.

LennyLen
Member #5,313
December 2004
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type568 said:

But then again, I did forget the Sun.

Again however, if there was a link, it probably would have been found by now (especially when the timing of the movement of the sun and moon is so well known). Such a link is the holy grail to seismologists and they've been looking for it for centuries.

edit:

Consider that even with the perfect alignment, gravitational effects might only increase by 100%, but a 10,000% increase would be needed to have any noticeable effects.

nb. I made the percentages up, but you get the idea I hope.

edit 2:

I was watching an interview with a seismologist last week after the earthquake and someone asked him about the supermoon. The look on his face was what you'd expect from archaeologists when people start asking them about the Pyramids being docking platforms for alien spacecraft.

Johan Halmén
Member #1,550
September 2001

You mean the "Damn! Someone has leaked!" look?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Years of thorough research have revealed that the red "x" that closes a window, really isn't red, but white on red background.

Years of thorough research have revealed that what people find beautiful about the Mandelbrot set is not the set itself, but all the rest.

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
avatar

type568 said:

Hmm. Actually a new moon is when both sun, and the moon are pulling the earth towards same direction. So it actually is a stronger than usual gravitational force

It doesn't really matter, the spring tides are equal on both sides of the earth regardless of if it's a full moon or new moon. During a new moon, the gravitational attraction is all in one direction, but the far side of the earth is attracted less than average due to increased distance, so the tides still occur on the far side. Almost like a centrifugal force trying to whip stuff off the far side.

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

Edgar Reynaldo
Major Reynaldo
May 2007
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LennyLen
Member #5,313
December 2004
avatar

They've been having lots of earthquakes in Japan recently too.

Their fault line system is connected to ours. It's not uncommon for quakes in one zone to be quickly followed by quakes in the other.

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