What does everyone think of this?

[url http://www.co.jyu.fi/~np/hate/USAHate.html]

Finally someone who isn't totally brainwashed. I mean I really don't know how you Americans can be proud of your country. With just how many of the 54 points on that page can an intelligent person disagree? And the map really depicts the American mentality.

And yes, I am a communist

Well, an anarchist to be more precise.

I am also a communist! The idea is great, but i just wished it would work!
And about that website, americans are over-patriotic, and that can sometimes get on peoples nerves (especially to the guy who wrote it), anything that is done against them is considered to be an "act of terrorism".....

I thought the word "terrorism" was censored on the internet after 911

Considering that guy has other hate pages, like 'Hate France', I would assume that he just likes to get a rise out of people.

If those hate pages are his true mentality, then he has a very shallow understanding of the topics he says he hates.

So, if he hates me because I'm an American, then more power to him. I don't have the capacity to hate so many people all at one time.

you people really don't know what your getting yourselves into. i think it would be best if you kept your anti* remarks to yourself.

[EDIT]not you Matt[/EDIT]

I'm dumb!! That's the funniest thing I've ever read!

Some people need to get a life . To sum up the page for anyone who hasn't read it yet, it just says "The US is stupid because it's the US."

-Sven
...funny stuff...

Well, if the Americans are being so loud about Iraq and North Korea and all the other countries they don't like then I think I have the right to be loud about the countries I don't like (America being on top of the list, obviously).

ok fine. talk all you want. all this will do is lead to a big debate. this is the same type of ignorance that starts wars. if you don't like America, then there is a reason why you don't live here. you don't need to tell the world.

by the way, i'm sure the creater of that site was somewhat joking. Marvel Comics rock.

miran: How many Americans have you actually heard saying loudly that they don't like Iraq and North Korea?

I live in America (oh whoops, I guess I should add "United States of", so I don't offend anyone), and I can honestly say that I don't know a single person who hates people from Iraq, North Korea or Cuba, etc. Most people here really don't care. Some even have the mindset to just let those Middle Eastern countries alone so they can blow each other up with their nukes.

The only ones that make any sort of fuss are politicians, and that's most likely because they are looking for something to do.

It is true that most Americans view a 'democratic republic' as the best form of government. But I think it's because they have experienced it first hand and are content with it. You don't see people from Florida rowing their boats to live on Cuba, but you can see Cubans trying to escape their great communistic land.

I actually agree with Yves about communism being a great idea. (Even the early Puritans set up a basic communistic government where everyone worked together and shared the 'profits', ie food.) It unfortunately ends up poorly in practice. Any form of government has flaws, for the simple reason that every person has flaws.

i totally agree with Matthew. most of my generation of Americans think that war is nothing but politics and do not concern themselves with ranting about Iraq or Palestine or whatever. take it from a half Iraqi, half Palestinian... at least 90% of my generation of Americans are entirely the opposite of what you stereotype us to be. stereotyping is a complete act of ignorance, and ignorance leads to prejudice.

some of this things are stupid, others are true.
But this document is or a joke or a call to hate another (here americans) and i don't like this. I've nothing against US or americans, but against their politics, and politic from other country

Yeah, I knew I was in for an intelligent read after a start like that I do think some Americans think a bit much of their country (that map at the bottom is pretty accurate ) but not that much ....

Americans concern themselves with outside things that have NOTHING to do with them WAY too often. Like I've heard so many times, they sell guns to people seemingly so that they can declare war on them once they use them or some crap. By americans, I mean the country. The political leaders chosen by it's people.

Matthew does have a good point about the politicians thing.. but that's not how the rest of the world see's it. If the US has a problem with China, then the people of it's country have a problem with China and Chinese people. It's sort of stereotypical I guess.

Communism is an excellent idea... but it's too 'idealistic'. The only thing wrong with it is that it takes away your freedom entirely.

Anyhoo, about that page
It looks like a joke, of course. It shouldn't be taken seriously. Most of the 'reasons' are one word or very stupid. "Barney" is certainly not a reason to hate a country Lighten up! It's like having a list of 101 reasons to hate Canada (HAHAHAHAHA .. imagine that) and having "eh?" on the list... or "mounties".. or "igloos"..

i was thinking it was a joke since i'read Matthew post

he's just someone who has nothing to do;D

A lot of the 'problem' is that people outside the US tend to perceive US citizens by the actions of:

A) The US government

and

B) US media

Last time I looked, I neither dictate foreign policy, nor do I in any way resemble anyone currently in the US media. Although someone mentioned I look like Ozzy, but that's a total fluke

Apparently, someone in Finland needs a nap.

Here are my few opinions in response to the original post. If anybody feels like making a personal attack and can't be bothered to visit my profile, I live in the UK. And I'm not proud. But that is another topic! Anyway . . .

Unless I'm mistaken, the americans are still persecuting communists in the same sense that there is still a war in Korea, right? That is, the war featuring Europeans, of course.

It is hard to point out that Bush and his guys spent their first year or so constantly telling everyone that the scientific evidence for global warming was flawed, then suddenly changed their mind in their most recent UN report. But alas there is still no can do resolve on fixing the environment, just on making sure the americans can deal with the effects. Since climate change affects the entire world, this makes me agree with this point.

In the USA you have the right to carry a gun, but not the right to healthcare if someone shoots you. Also, I understand that the USA is very backwards on the issue of the welfare state in general?

However, the rest of this page looks like garbage to me. And that map is a poor immitation of an old joke which everybody must have seen in at least three other places. If there is one reason to dislike americans it has to be that overbearing sense of superiority. The actual belief which exists in their military that they invented the EU so they wouldn't have to send their troops over and fix up another European war like they had done twice already in the C20th, and so on. The way they never apologise when they bomb the wrong things. The way people in TV shows such as 'Diagnosis : Murder' deliver dialogue such as 'why don't you buy something reliable - something american?' without a hint of irony.

I'm sure it doesn't permiate through the whole of society, but it definitely infests all the visible parts of what people perceive to be the USA.

i think it's definitly a joke but it appears that some people here have taken it seriously. something that made me sway on the side of "its a joke" more is when i clicked on the occult symbols of satan link. look at the backgorund, it says "yes, this is a joke" over and over and over and over again. i just hope it will be taken as one and this won't turn into a political discussion, because i get enough of that b.s. elsewhere.

Considering my previous post (ref: point B), I rest my case

I'm not quite sure what you mean by this... In USA you have a right to both of those. You can choose either to own a gun or not. You can choose either to have healthcare or not. Both will probably cost you some money.

With most jobs you get healthcare as 'bonus' added onto your base salary. Or, you can easily choose to pay for it yourself, or for extended options.

If you have a bad job then you may not get free healthcare or be able to afford it. (For me, it would cost around $100 a month - which is very affordable.)

However, if someone were to shoot a person without money and without healthcare, the hospital isn't going to turn him away. Everyone taken to the hospital gets cared for whether or not they have money.

I personally, would rather have less handouts and pay lower taxes - but obviously not everyone feels the same.

(PS: Maybe I just don't understand what you mean by 'healthcare'.)

It is a shame I had not made a point about the tendency of people on forums to occasionally miss sections of the point, or I would be able to join you in that respect!

Somehow, I feel many of the opinions expressed on that page are quite accurate,

though to be honest, it seems like 99% of US citizens and politically involved are sitting in two entirely different boats. (with the government boat towing the helpless citizen boat)
A lot of US people I meet have totally different opinions than the government, still, there seems to be no easy way anything can be changed for the better.

like the presidential elections, jacka$$ no.1 or jacka$$ no.2

who do you choose?

Still, knowing that they are mere puppets controlled by much larger and more influential forces doesn't make things better.

It is only logical, in no way can one man control even the direction of politics for such a large country, he's just there to comfort people and tell them what is written on paper.

This is in fact tricking people into thinking they are choosing what happens to their country, while they are actually choosing who to get entertained by.

Health care is a BIG reason why I don't live in the US (or want to). Here in Ontario Canada, most health care is free (Prescriptions aren't anymore, tho). I can't believe how many Canadians complain about our health care, when it is so outstanding imo...I've been to a lot of doctors without paying a penny Mind you, we have a shortage of nurses here in SW Ontario, because they make more money in the US, so most nurses are going over there for work instead....but, other than that problem, having free health care is awesome

If I ever broke my leg or something in the states, I'd be too terrified about the medical bill to worry about the pain

Anyhoo, I'd go ranting about the guns some more but that's for another thread....another thread that's already been covered in the game development forum.. about the morality in killing terrorists, remember?

What's the deal with free healthcare? Why not free food? Free lodging? Free video games.

Government sponsered health care is not a big issue in USA, because most people are satisfied with what they've already got. Ultimately, free anything means the working tax-payers are paying for theirs and someone else's bills.

don't forget the point that most employers offer health insurance for free. that way if you get an arm cut off, you could have it sewed back on without paying all of the medical expenses.

Time to comment on that site...

Forgive me for being such an ignorant American, but by 'hystery' does this guy mean histeria, history, or something completely different?

If it's censored, why can I go to a "USA Haters Homepage?"

Since, according to the last poll here, everyone on allegro.cc uses a PC, I think we should be angry about the first part of this one.

I can only hope he's kidding on this one. Yes, Europe is in the center, according to eurocentricists. Hypocrite.

I only see 54, 55 counting the map.:-/

As for the rest, it's either true or too stupid and trivial for me to bother with.

I'd really like to get in on this thread. However I get too emotional on threads and matthew tends to ban me (several times) so I won't post my opinion especially to that commy bastard.

53. Filthy stinking yanks never remove their shoes indoors.

I always remove my damn shoes.

I'll give everyone in Europe I reason to love this stincking country. Hitler would have taken over the world. Had it not been for people Like my Grandfather. Part of the greatest generation. All European Jews would be dead. Everything would be gone. Hitler had everything taken care of He would have won. If we hadn't persecuted the indians and started this country there would be nothing but easy a$$ indians over here for Hitlers men to easily kill. AND they would have killed them all...

--
"Blaming guns for Columbine is like blaming spoons for Rosie O'Donnell being fat."

"There are very few problems in the world that can't be cured by the appropriate amount of high explosives."

"The object of war is not to die for your country, but to make the other bastard die for his."

Shit, I'm out of quotes...

This is exactly why communism would never work in a country like the USA? Your government just tells you to be happy with what you have and you don't complain!

If you really think that it was America that won the war the you really are stupid.

Healthcare is an insurance issue. You would net get lodging or video game insurance. By making healthcare free for all you ensure two things :

Those are the principles upon which free healthcare was implemented, certainly in my country. Its all about equality, rather than running a system which better aids those who have happened to come off good in the lottery of life. Its about recognising that opportunity is not available for all, despite our politicians claims and occasionally best intentions.

Unfortunately it tends not to be so true any more due to the rise of health insurance in addition to the state services, but that is beside the point and a historical adjunct to the rise of comprehensive health care free at the point of delivery.

Thats funny. Historians have it that opening a second front in Russia and becoming involved in things like the siege of Stalingrad were the main blow to Hitler's ambitions, with additional side notes to the unwillingness of many invaded countries to go along with Naziism leading to an increasingly thinly spread power base, while the Americans were principly involved in the war for the Pacific. But, of course, I'm sure we all await your authoritative text.

Of course, if the man your grandad had voted into presidency hadn't reneged on his promises to help with the war from the very beginning then this might be a different conversation.

Actually no, most people are not satisfied with what they have, I'm a social work major computer science minor, and health care is a big issue in the control and theres a big debate about the cost and how much control government should have, and no most people are not satisfied based on the stats.

And what nieghborhood do you live in?
I'm not going to portray American as all bein fulled with hate but there are many that because of the 9/11 tragedy hate muslims and being in college we have lots of debates and people express their views. Don't forget all the underground hate groups in this country. Like the KKK which is still alive and well, just i think what a month ago a Black dude was dragged to death with the rope around his neck till he died somewhere down in the south.

So oh yea people here still hate, maybe the reason it isn't evident to you is cause your not the person they hate.

Actually no, in America everyone so it seems is trying to achieve the American dream, never being satisfied with what you had and always coveting what your neighorhood has, and getting the most recently advertised car, appliances, house, etc.

But overall Yea we here in America do lots of things that well I dont agree with, but no countries perfect. We have lots of freedoms which few countries get. And unlike some countries we don't treat women with such great disrespect. And though there is a class system (which many fail to realize) its easier to move up and down this ladder than compared to other countries.

Yea so to the guy who made that webpage, yea American isn' perfect , but named any country that doesn't have its list of flaws, you could named any country and tons of people would say things aobut it that they hate.

All we can do is strive to be more humane with our relationship with other countries, but I can tell in the near future, that other countries are going to see us (America) as a threat because of our military aggression, and they are going to unite aganist us.

For Reference: I live in the USA.

Hmmm, I agree with everything Thomas has posted except that last post: Who's to say what would have happened if America didn't attack Germany when it did -- looking past the mistakes we made. We did attack and therefore we receive some credit for it because people risked and lost their lives. I'm not saying we should think we're better than any other country because of it. It's like the UK, I'm sure you guys are really proud of your achievements in the war, but many "feudal" lords mades some mistakes because they were taken in with the whole Nazi thing too. Just don't say we messed up this, or they messed up that, because it just ends up being a pissing match.

It was easy back when there was valued land that empires didn't consider "settled" (the fact they were doesn't really matter, because the natives couldn't do much about europeans conquering them.) Back then it was all a big game of Risk where you balanced getting more land with protecting the land you had.

Now everyone's over-protecting their assets, but there's no more land to conquer, so they're squabbling over petty sh$3 instead. I think it's stupid for we USA'ers to think so much of ourselves and accept the fact we have more food on our plates than some other countries, but honestly, if you lived here, you wouldn't do anything about it or know what to do about it either. For example, the UK has the same problem, just not to such a high degree.

And no one can do anything about it until we blow all of ourselves up*, or get seperate governments to say screw JUST "getting along", let's permanently unite, and not for military gain, but for world peace?! <- wouldn't that be the day.

*In no way do I support "blow[ing] all of ourselves up"

Sorry I had such a long post, but lately I've been getting really mad about foreign relations in the US. Hell, I even emailed the president the other day. Not because emailing him would get his attention, but because I knew it wouldn't and I did it anyway. And sorry for the semi-stream-of-conciousness form of writing, but it's quicker to communicate if everything isn't so formal.

***Check out my previous post***

Whats this dudes smoking?
Our music is universal, formed from various cultures and listened to all around the world, not to be brag or anything but most of the big music stars around the world, I would guess made it big in America

nicholle : I apologize for my earlier behaviour and hope I didn't insult you.

Heh, this whole mess started when Spoon opened his/her/its extraordinarily big mouth and started slandering people he/she/it didn't even know about. The conversation then escalated to pointless bickering and exchange of bullets, but enough of that though.

And oh, that page is a troll, as is the rest of that site. I'm not the author of that page though, but I'm responsible for pasting that link in #allegro.

What are YOU smoking?

No, no, I didn't mean the input of America was useless and I didn't mean to enter into a conversation about which country made the most significant input - the fact is the Allies won that war, not the Americans, not the British, not the Russians, not the Indians (i.e. from India), not anyone in particular.

Oh god, please don't get them started. This country (the UK) is virtually in terminal decline thanks to small minded backward looking people who do things like attach particular significant to football matches with Argentina and Germany principly because of war related histories, and say stupid things like "no to the euro, because we've only ever had trouble from europe - what about those Nazis and the periods for which Spain and Portugal were dictatorships, and what about De Gaulle? WHAT ABOUT DE GAULLE?". But at least he'll always have Paris!

I am surprised you are even discussing this.
The guy is clearly a retard, as are quite a few people that sent him their defensive comments.

Though I might not like a lot of things about the US, and which are pointed out on that page (to my surprise), one could hardly overestimate how pathetic that site is.
It is much more like pouring $hit, than a constructive critisism.

I'm dumb!, give me a break. The only country that gets credit for defeating Hitler is Russia (Soviet Union ib that period). All of the Europe was taken in the matter of days. And war was going on for 5 years.

http://www.dictionary.com/search?q=troll

And if you didn't get it for the first time, start over and read again until you get it.

I am very upset that my country is apparently no longer a part of Europe, and I expect many others such as the Maltese and the Irish will have similar issues, but never mind.

Anyway, I am writing again because I have noticed a surprisingly timed article in today's Independant (a UK newspaper), main section page 18 by Fergal Keane (also a BBC Special Correspondant) entitled 'If only people were more intelligent when they talk about America'. Some quotes from it :

Of cource there were other countrys that fought Germany. But What I was saying is If it not been for the US getting involved when they did Germany would have won. That doesn't mean we beat them alone, You moron. Also Russia is garbage. THe people are poor and stupid as theyhave always been. Does anyone remember that Russia signed a treaty with Germany. a treaty Hitler broke. All the russians did was run from Hitler. they would have taken care of those morrons It was the supprise attack that got him. The Russians were just destroying useful shit of theirs and running that was there tactics. Or do you idiot commys read different history books.

--
"They say those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it. Sadly this was a lesson the people of Russia had to learn all over again - at the pain of equally devastating starvation and penury - in our own century. By the 1980s, when the discredited and bloodstained rulers of Russia finally threw up their hands and allowed farmers to raise private crops and sell them for profit on a mere 10 percent of their lands, once again more crops were produced on that 10 percent of the land than on the 90 percent devoted to "collective agriculture," the system under which - as the bitter Russian joke would have it - "We pretend to work, and they pretend to pay us."

"I wonder why some of the so-called guardians of freedom are so anxious to register guns and so reluctant to register Communists."

If we're doing old jokes, let us not forget the one about American foreign policy being based around shame at having been late for the last two world wars and therefore a want to be really really early for the next one.

It's not "free", it's publically funded. You still end up pay for it, though indirectly. You also pay a lot less than you think.

I'm gonna have to agree with this one...

Uhh.. matthew.. you're sorta wrong here:

Two things that I think are bad, are happening. The US hates their health care. I'm unsure of ALL the states, but I know Michigan is attempting to make their health care more like Canada's (yeah, I know it's technically not 'free'.. but it's 'easier'). Ontario is (or was.. that mike harris bozo was messing up our health system) attempting to make their health care more like the US.. where you pay $500 for your broken arm.

Health insurance isn't quite as common here. It gets you 80% off your dental work and your perscription drugs.. so it's not really worth it unless you have a big family.. or a lot of health problems :p I pay (or rather, my parents) $20 a month for some pills I'm on.. .. .. but, then again.. we send the bill to my insurance company and they pay for it.. .. ...but that's not health insurance That's car insurance.. wow.. I just realized how screwed up that is..

I get most of that free through my health plan at work. Pays for 100% of dental bills, free glasses, all that stuff. Plus compensation for losing eyes or thumbs or major limbs since most of the equipment here have some nasty blades on them (they ain't called arm saws for nuthin'). I can't go hog wild and get 100 free glasses, but I have a pretty high limit.

That's a typical attitude, Sp0oNSoFT2o0O.
I feel pity for you. I am not going to get into this since you won't be able to present a more complex analysis than you already did, because, apparently, your knowledge of history is biased and miniscule, much like your IQ.

Ha ha. Ha. I find that quite amusing - have you seen a U.S. election recently?

Aleksey, I will take you apart my friend. I'll make you examin the different aspects of your culture. I'll make you look at history more clearly. And forgive me if I sound Biased you see I live in a free country and you can do that kind of stuff here. I imagine you wouldn't be able to do that publically 30 years ago in whatever crappy iron curtain country you live in. What the hell does it matter This will get erased also(frustrating tyrants like matthew). I don't beleive i was biased. please Aleskey give examples of me being biased.;)

"Then the Jamestown colony was converted to a free market, and the results were every bit as dramatic as those at Plymouth. In 1614, Colony Secretary Ralph Hamor wrote that after the switch there was 'plenty of food, which every man by his own industry may easily and doth procure.' He said that when the socialist system had prevailed, 'we reaped not so much corn from the labors of 30 men as three men have done for themselves now.' "

Well, I know US elections are a little screwed up.. cuz didn't Al Gore actually win by vote count?

Mind you, I don't pay attention much to the US politics other than what I see on TV..

but, my point was sorta that the people DO elect the president/etc (in SOME form )... and the people that are elected represent the people of the country for the rest of the world.... that and the media, of course... but I think it's safe to say they're the same thing, in the end...pretty much..

I live somewhat close to detroit michigan (closest 'big' city in the US to me) and I get the detroit news on TV It's rather sickening to watch. Seriously. They have silly 3D animations for something serious, and use humorous phrases where humor is not appropriate. One specific report was about a kid getting beat by his parents. The news guy was saying things like "We've got a case of a bad report card.".. cuz I guess his parent's weren't happy about his report card or something.. but then a 3D report card with D's on it fly's onto the screen and a pencil falls onto it..

....wtf? Who the hell's idea was it to throw that in? I started chuckling cuz I figured it was a joke. Then they started talking about the beating and what not.. so I was forced to change the channel. Am I the only one that finds that.. sorta.. uhh.. messed up?

The whole attack on america thing was a little messed up too imo tho I guess. There was no need to show the planes going into the towers over, and over, and over, and over. No need at all. It gives me the feeling that americans like to watch that sorta stuff.. that they're violet people..

Then there was america strikes back.. thank god that didn't last as long as the attack on america news casts.. I didn't really understand why the public had to know what kind of weapons were being used.. as if anyone knows or cares about the Z952 K7 Tactic Model Covert Missile, with Plutonium Warheads
I also couldn't figure out why they were using nuclear submarines to attack southern afghanastan FROM northern afghanastan.. but, uhh, I guess that's their money to play with

Anyhoo.. I do hope this is the last thread like this

No, the Florida vote count itself was the controversy - which was worth enough 'points' that whoever won that state would win the whole election. Several independant researchers (Newspapers, etc) ended up going back and doing their own counting of the Florida votes and they all came to the same conclusion that Bush did indeed have more votes than Gore, from a range of just a few dozen to several hundred - depending on what was considered a 'vote'.

But in regards to your question, it is possible for a guy to become President without having the majority of votes, but it would be exteremely rare. (Well, the 'Electorial College' could always vote against their pledge, but that most likely isn't going to happen.)

The system sounds weird (and quite possibly is), but considering that America is essentially 50 different states it isn't all that dumb. (Ie, to become President, you must win the popular vote in enough States - where the larger states are worth more `points'.)

In the long run of things, it ends up being the same as popular vote. Plus, I think only 40% or so of eligible voters even participate in a typical election, so it's impossible to say who the majority of public even wanted - when the majority don't even vote.

I think it's a pretty pathetic number, but then I don't know how it compares to other countries.

Veering slightly off topic, I found an interesting 'timeline of democracy' at http://www.fordemocracy.net/timeline.shtml. Some key dates :

--
16th-13th C, B.C.E : The ten commandments are revealed to Moses on Mt. Sinai. They establish the Judeo-Christian ethic as the critical foundation of modern democratic thought

1517 : Martin Luther, German scholar, publishes 95 theses, launching the Reformation in Europe

1619 : First representative colonial assembly in America held at Jamestown, VA, under Governor Sir George Yeardley

1628 : The Petition of Right provides freedom of speech and bans cruel or unusual punishment, further strengthening Parliament in England

1690 : English philosopher John Locke argues in his book, Two Treatises, that the government's job under the "social contract" is to protect "natural rights", including what he calls "the right to life, liberty, and the ownership of property"

1776 : The United States declares independence

1787 : The American Constitution and Bill of Rights are established

The original U.S. Constitution permits the states to allow only white male property owners to vote or to hold an elected office. This is not changed until the 1820s.

Slavery is not abolished in the U.S. until the 13th Amendment to the constitution made slavery illegal in 1865

The 14th Amendment (1868) states that all citizens of the US have equal protection under the laws. The 15th (1870) gives the right to vote to all male citizens

The 19th Amendment (1920) gives all women the right to vote, 131 years after the U.S. Constitution is written

The Civil Rights Act of 1964 makes any discrimination on the basis of "race, religion, national origin, sex, or physical handicaps" illegal

The 26th Amendment (1971) gives anyone over 18 the right to vote

1789 : The French "Declaration of the Rights of Man" assert that people have the right to "liberty, property, security, and resistance to oppression"

The new French government bans slavery in all territory under French control

1893 : New Zealand becomes the first nation to fully establish a system of universal suffrage
--

So, there we have it. Democracy is a jewish/christian/muslim idea, politically helped forwards by events in Germany, experimented with by a British colony and then brought closer to a real implementation by non-colonial Brits, eventually adopted and improved by the USA and France both at pretty much the same time, and implemented fully for the first time in New Zealand - the only proper pre-20th century democracy.

Haven't we all learnt a lot?

Here's an IRC log (abridged). Sp0oN2oo2 was talking about Britain.

<Sp0oN2oo2> isn't there a camera on every corner entheh
<Sp0oN2oo2> some places you littler and they send you a digital ticket
<Sp0oN2oo2> litter
<entheh> Sp0oN2oo2: I don't know how true that is (about litter), but it's a good thing
<Sp0oN2oo2> yea taking away every right you thing you have can be a good thing
<entheh> Sp0oN2oo2: I refuse to talk to someone who thinks it's right to litter

So now we know why America's so great - you can drop litter without getting in trouble! God bless America...

(I know not everyone's like that, and I doubt you get in trouble for littering in Britain either, so this isn't an attack on the US. It's just interesting that Sp0oN chose this as a reason why the US is so great. I didn't say it was surprising. Only interesting. )

So are they, like, invading your privacy by recording what you do in public, or something? Or just taking away people's God-given right to collectivly coat the street with 2 inches of chocolate bar wrappers? Welcome back, Sp0on

Can we refrain from personal `attacks' (for lack of a better word) and `flamebait'? No one here really cares (or should) about any nonsense that goes on somewhere else.

But littering is illegal in USA and probably most every other country, for whatever that's worth.

Ben thats real cute. Why don't I put up the stuff you say about stuff. HUH how about that. You know you can't do this stuff on the forums matthew will close this thread and erase this anyway so what do I care. ANYWAY what I meant by this is it is very intrusive for the state to do such a thing. In the US they would fight it to the end mobs of people would take down the cameras. Thats the way America works like a crucible (get your dictionarys) it reforms itself. SoKay...

--
screw it i cant find a good quote for that

Spoon, I hate to bust your nuts, but where I live (in the US) they have cameras on the beach equiped with facial recognition software to catch known criminals. Rest assured, though, that it doesn't check based on skin color (what the media really cares about, and nobody else .)

-Sven

But you're doing it in public anyway. So how is it intruding? Not their fault if you chose to stand in front of a video camera and break the law Would you insist on the removal of survelliance equipment from malls and banks too?

Heh ... that reminds me of the time I set up a camcorder to catch my step-father drinking from the carton, then we played it back and before we got to him, we saw ME drinking from the carton ... five minutes after I set up the camcorder ... me and my stupid memory ....

Thats a privatley owned beach. I'm talking about streets taxes paid for and the government owns.

--
"you, genius"

I thought the government was public .. crap .. that totally blows my mind...

Spoon, get an education, it'll do you good.

Chris: Heh.. you shouldn't criticize others if you do the same thing
-Sven

I have an education my family doesn't move around. Public and government are the same. I never said they weren't. I said private land and public roads are different. You shouldn't be allowed to set up Cameras on public roads and streets. I'm sure there are plenty of disscusions somewhere on this topic. And I will ask one more time. Please lay off the personal attacks. Thank you.